11 ms·

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't und

• loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  > I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. Maybe because there's concerns. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v... > "for boys 16-17 without medical comorbidities, the rate of CAE is currently 2.1 to 3.5 times higher than their 120-day Covid-19 hospitalization risk, and 1.5 to 2.5 times higher at times of high weekly Covid-19 hospitalization,"
  • loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    i like the downvotes and lack of response. it's always a good 1-2 punch.
• jakemoshenko 5y ago
  Slight correction: vaccines are still not available to children under 12.
  • klebe 5y ago
    yeah small note to add here: the last pediatric vaccine (garadasil / HPV) went through a decade of clinical trials before approval
    • xxpor 5y ago
      The infection rate and how HPV spreads is completely different from an airborne virus. The time comparison to do trials isn't really meaningful.
      • deleted 5y ago
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    • issa 5y ago
      Think about this for a second. If you give 100,000 pre-teens an HPV vaccine, how long do you have to wait to discover if they are more or less likely to contract genital warts? Now compare that to how long you would have to wait to see if they contract COVID. This is not a valid comparison.
      • deleted 5y ago
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• throwaway894345 5y ago
  > Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. We don't know they are safe for children under 12. Pediatrics is a profession precisely because "children are not just small adults". Something that is safe for adults isn't automatically safe for children.
  • unanswered 5y ago
    The vaccine is 100% safe and if you believe otherwise you're probably listening to too many racists.
  • Izkata 5y ago
    I'd lean towards "probably not safe"; we only just found that teenage boys are at 6x more risk from heart problems from the vaccine than any risk from covid itself: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-ris... https://archive.is/ixG5G https://archive.is/ixG5G
    • dr_dshiv 5y ago
      Woah, that's super intense. Wow. I think i will still vaccinate my 12 year old boy because he wants to get the shot and these numbers are still low, but yeah, now i want more info. Thank you.
      • deleted 5y ago
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      • chitowneats 5y ago
        Regardless of where we end up with respect to vaccination of children for COVID-19, I hope we can all agree that the child's opinion is irrelevant, given that they are not equipped to make an informed decision.
• soperj 5y ago
  >Sure there is a small population that would get vaccinated but genuinely can not due to a medical issue but that scenario is no different than the seasonal flu and other viruses. There is a difference. Covid is 10 times more lethal than the average flu. It's not always that they can't either, it's also that their body won't develop enough antibodies. Main reason for lockdown is so that your hospitals can keep functioning, or in the case of New Zealand, so that you can go back to complete normal life except for travel outside the country.
• beaner 5y ago
  >I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1631205198 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-ris...
  • lghh 5y ago
    I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.
    • chitowneats 5y ago
      Then you should be concerned about the considerable risk they will end up there due to heart inflammation (in the case of male children). Edit: I'm not going to respond to every comment below that points out that it's extremely rare, other than to ask that you compare that chance to the chance of hospitalization due to covid, which according to the link above is less likely.
      • lame-robot-hoax 5y ago
        Source for “considerable risk” needed. It’s still considered extremely rare post vaccination.
        • unanswered 5y ago
          The sources are literally three comments up! And the point is that the risk is higher than the risk from COVID!
• josephcsible 5y ago
  > Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. This ignores the existence of antibody tests, and there's no reason that lying about a positive antibody test would be easier to get away with than lying about being vaccinated.
• oppositelock 5y ago
  I've got a child under 12, and while everyone in my household over 12 is vaccinated, I'm not sure if the vaccine has any point for him. If you look at CDC stats, today there are only 412 reported covid19 deaths in the 0-17 age group, 138 in the 0-4 group, meaning 274 in the 4-17 group out of 670,000. Furthermore, kids rarely need treatment, so most infections go undiagnosed. While I have no objection to a vaccine, and I don't question the efficacy of these, the trivial chance of my son's covid19 complications versus forcing him to a doctor's office over his fear of needles, which will cause him a lot of angst, makes me question whether to do it. These decisions aren't always entirely about death percentages.
  • Mikealcl 5y ago
    Not sure how accurate that is based on the children’s hospitals in the southern United States being at capacity from COVID. Long symptoms have also become an issue in children.
    • lotsofpulp 5y ago
      >Long symptoms have also become an issue in children. Source?
      • wpietri 5y ago
        If you'd like to appear serious, I'd recommend doing a little basic googling before asking anybody for a source. Maybe this isn't true for you, but there are plenty of querulous people who ask for information that are not sincerely interested, but just work to wear out their opponents.
        • hpoe 5y ago
          I'd recommend when you decide to make claims you go ahead and provide a source rather than becoming passive-aggressive and telling someone it isn't your job to educate them.
          • 5y ago
• billycorben2 5y ago
  I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle. I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test). I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?). Why should I get vaccinated?
  • oppositelock 5y ago
    While I posted above about being on the fence about vaccinating my kid, I was in a similar case as you. I'm in my late 40's, and I came down with covid early in the pandemic, before general availability of PCR tests, but I did manage to get an antibody test, and I was positive. I did get vaccinated because the vaccine reinforces antibodies which are correlated with fewer complications upon subsequent infection. There are some epitopes on sars-cov-2 which closely resemble parts our own clotting factors and interferons, and the randomized nature of our immune response can lead to some less desirable antibodies being present. So, it seems a vaccine only helps. One thing about getting vaccinated after recovery from covid, though, is that both the first and second doses knock you on your butt, not just the second.
    • outworlder 5y ago
      > the randomized nature of our immune response can lead to some less desirable antibodies being present Exactly! The point of many COVID vaccines is to teach the immune system to destroy a very specific and very important protein, which is the spike protein. Without that the virus can't enter cells. It's not present in our own body. We have no idea what kind of immune response any given person might get with an actual infection. Reinfections are a thing.
      • gizmondo 5y ago
        Your last paragraph makes little sense. We have no idea what kind of immune response any given person might get with a vaccine (any vaccine) either. What kind of test this is? And infections after covid vaccines are sadly also a thing.
      • Amezarak 5y ago
• efficax 5y ago
  clinical trials are ongoing for <12 year olds. The biggest change is that the dosages will have to be lower. If you give a young child the current adult dose they will have a higher chance of side effects.
• stepanhruda 5y ago
  > COVID response of lockdowns, etc. was at best breakeven in terms of cost effectiveness Can you share some of those any metrics? Legitimately asking.
• IncRnd 5y ago
  > Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. > IMO it would make a lot more sense to just keep vaccines available for everyone older than 2 including boosters every 6 months (just in case) That's a terrible idea. Children are not small adults, and you can't use the same medicine for children as for adults. There are Pediatricians who work specifically with children. Giving drugs to children is unlike the scenario where a heavy car takes twice the gasoline a ligher care takes. "Therefore, the risk of cardiac adverse events following the second dose of the mRNA vaccine could be around 3.7 times more likely than hospitalization due to COVID-19 in healthy 12-15-year-old boys during periods when the pandemic is better under control 2.1 times in 16-17-year-olds. The group found that this trend remains even when SARS-CoV-2 transmission rates are high, with vaccination being riskier than hospitalization from COVID-19. The long-term health effect of the mRNA vaccines on teenage boys is unknown. Few clinical trials have been conducted due to the early observation of adverse events." [1] [1] https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210913/The-rate-of-vaccine-induced-heart-inflammation-in-children.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210913/The-rate-of-vacci...
• Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  "Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12" From what I understand, different ages of people tend to have different sorts of immune responses. While vaccines are safe and effective, it takes some time to get the dosages right for children because of the way their immune system responds to things - at least, with a new vaccine. I'm not an expert, though, and I got this information while looking up variances in side effects (older folks get less than younger folks, and folks with two x chromosomes - mostly females - tend to get more as well).
• IanCal 5y ago
  > Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12 The main issue here is that covid is less of a problem for people who are younger. That means rarer issues can start to outweigh benefits. It's easily possible for vaccines to be beneficial over a certain age and detrimental under. Also - while the vaccines lower transmission they do not stop it entirely so again it comes to weighing benefits. The other issue is about testing how well the vaccines work in different groups. Just because it works well in a 65y grandfather doesn't mean it'll work well in a 2mo baby, or help with dosing decisions.
• SquishyPanda23 5y ago
  > Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. I think this is the main point. We are dealing with a large anti-vax disinformation campaign that America's enemies are fanning [0] because they want to destabilize the country. Many of the anti-vax people people are now pushing natural immunity. Yes there is something to be said about natural immunity in conditions in which, say, vaccine supply was critically low and needed to be triaged. But when there is approximately zero marginal cost to getting vaccinated, and very high likelihood of fraud among the nature immunity promotors, it doesn't make sense as policy. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/facebook-removes-russian-network-that-targeted-influencers-peddle-anti-vax-2021-08-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/facebook-removes-russian-...