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Record number of environmental activists murdered
- anshumankmr 5y agoSo I was a little curious about some of the names from my country. I checked out the name of Isravel Moses. According to The Wire.in, an online publication, whose credentials one would not doubt when it comes to criticizing the government or corporations had this to say > On the night of November 8, Moses was hacked to death by alleged drug dealers, as a fallout of his reportage on the distribution and sale of ganja and the illegal encroachment of poramboke lands. ganja is weed for those who don't know. https://thewire.in/media/tamil-nadu-journalist-isravel-moses-murdered-drug-dealers https://thewire.in/media/tamil-nadu-journalist-isravel-moses... Though he was an activist, I am not sure he was an activist against global warming. His death is regrettable and India has had an alarming rate of murders of journalists and activists along with a rise in nationalism. And most people never really hear about it, which is even worse. Though this country has never been good to whistleblowers, journalists and activists. This has been happening for decades, not something very new honestly.
- mandmandam 5y agoThe list is of murdered environmental activists, not just global warming activists. And while yes, this has been happening for decades, it seems important to note that this is the second year in a row that the counted murders have reached new records. So I'm really not sure what your point is; it reads like a vague call to complacency.
- anshumankmr 5y agoWell, I don't really have the power to make societal level change, hell, I can't even change my father's mind when it comes to lapping up propaganda... Only thing I am working towards is leaving here as soon as possible.
- tomxor 5y agoI think the parent is implying a disingenuous broadening of the definition of "environmental activist", including people who are not expected to be part of that definition, and artificially magnifying the "number of environmental activists killed" for sensationalism.
- Robin_Message 5y ago> > illegal encroachment of poramboke lands That sounds like an environmental issue; we are facing a biodiversity crisis as well as a climate crisis.
- anshumankmr 5y agohttps://www.casemine.com/search/in/poramboke%2Bmeans https://www.casemine.com/search/in/poramboke%2Bmeans According to this it means, land that is reserved for government use. (Not sure myself, as I am not from TN)
- beowulfey 5y agoI would just like to point out that it is somewhat reductionist to think environmental activists only exist to combat global warming. I am seeing a lot of this false equivalency here in this thread and it is surprising to me that people think this.
- vivferrari 5y agoEvery electronic good you buy contributes to these murders. The raw material sourced in these places are used for manufacture of these products and environmental activism threatens their ability to continue to exploit nature and profit from it.
- hrfbi 5y agoOh yes? I'm so looking forward to tomorrow's keynote then.
- redleader55 5y ago... and still here we are, from the comfort of your our laptop/mobile commenting on something happening half-way across the world. I am personally not willing to give up this comfort and chances are most people aren't either. One could even argue that the "West" benefited for centuries from the blood and resources of others, and the only reason why they afford today to talk about climate change and fair trade is their plundering past. At the same time, the poorer countries just do whatever they need to survive and develop. One could even call this type of activism callous and think the only reason the "West" has for pushing this agenda is to ensure there are still poor people from whom to steal in the future. When someone doesn't have food to put on the table they tend to care less about green living, clean energy, etc.
- hammyhavoc 5y agoAny potential solutions other than demanding circular products?
- temptemptemp111 5y agoHow is this suddenly #1 you HN propagandists?
- ArchieMaclean 5y agoHow does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics
- bratwurst3000 5y agoI would like to Point out that the absolut number of environmental activists is hard to define. How would you start to count? Such a list would be a bad thing. So if there is no absolute number of all activist there is no way to compare dead and alive….but dead ones are more easy to count. And last thing…they are killed while trying to make the world a better place…the number of those people getting Killed should allways be zero.
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- cenophor 5y agoThis is murder, not people falling off the cliff because of some accidents. There is probably nothing logically wrong with that question, and you are probably right that there is a correlation. But... seriously?
- TeMPOraL 5y agoYes, seriously. Number one failure in sensationalized reporting is base rate fallacy: they point out a high absolute number, implying something strange is going on, whereas usually the denominator - which they neglect to mention - has rose proportionally, meaning there's nothing newsworthy there. I don't mean this is the case here (I'm yet to read the article itself) - but this failure mode in reporting is so common that it's a good habit to immediately look for / question lack of base rate data.
- kleiba 5y agoI know we're not drawing from a random distribution here, but presumably, the number of environmentalists has also risen dramatically in recent years.
- hulitu 5y agoSo is the number of politicians. What do you propose ?
- _Microft 5y agoHow would that lead to more killings? It is not like activists come with an innate probability to be killed because of their work.
- Hallucinaut 5y agoI believe they're arguing there's an "innate probability" for _humans_ to be murdered.
- _Microft 5y agoIn another thread, someone argued that it might be rather caused by an increase in mining and logging activity instead (which in turn also might lead to more activists protesting this behaviour). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28509378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28509378
- Ekaros 5y agoI would expect there is. I take lot more are murdered in absolute number now than then were let's say 40k humans on planet.
- krageon 5y agoTo be fair, they definitely do. Any kind of activism that campaigns against mountains of money comes with an innate probability to be killed. I suppose you could argue that it's not innate because someone else is instigating it, but if the conflict that gives rise to the murder is in itself a property of the activism...
- dataflow 5y agoTangentially relevant content I posted yesterday (about sand mining in Bangladesh) that folks might also find interesting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28499114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28499114
- anderson1993 5y agoThe police are in on it, the government is in on it, the corporation is responsible. Clear as day.
- zohch 5y ago> The police are in on it, the government is in on it, the corporation is responsible. Then why does it not stop? If you look at the countries where this problem is occuring, they don't really have highly effective governments, they have lots of corruption, and generally high crime rates. If the governments do not prosecute those responsible and hold corporations to account, this won't stop, and if the people in those countries by and large continue their support for their corrupt governments and police, then that will also not change.
- yunohn 5y agoIf you look at the corporations named, none of them are owned by locals. They’re all global mega corps, owned and operated through Western parents. They exploit the local chaotic governance to their advantage - and evade prosecution in their home countries by virtue of it being conducted on “foreign soil”.
- Paianni 5y agoNot always... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens#2005_and_continuing:_worldwide_bribery_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens#2005_and_continuing:_w...
- yunohn 5y agoIt’s good to see that (occasionally) international megacorps can be prosecuted for international crimes - I’d argue that a fine is more of a slap on the wrist, but it’s better than nothing. I’d really like to see oil/wood/mining megacorps be brought to justice as well.
- pastage 5y agoThe US seems to be very trigger happy wrt foreign companies giving bribes on forgein soil, if they have a presence in the US. I think FCAP has been modified to be more efficient in this respect.
- adham01 5y agoThe year is 2087, the remaining scientists that weren't hunted down in the previous year, have issued a dire warning that time is running out for action on climate change. The claim is rebuked again by a conglomerate consisting of Breathing apparatus manufacturers, Sunblock body-paint makers, Subterranean city developers, Biohazard swimsuit makers, Soylent green icecream industries, Nestlé, FEMA holiday camps, and the Corporate Emperor of USA. The 2088 hunt is scheduled to begin March 1st.
- 0-_-0 5y agoCopy-pasting a top comment from Reddit I see: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/pn6x3g/record_number_of_environmental_activists_murdered/hcnbsxn/ https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/pn6x3g/record_nu...
- spacemanmatt 5y agoNot their only plagiarism on HN lately, either
- anticodon 5y agoBut also remember the hysteria about ozone depletion, which served the interest of DuPont. It's a mystery how heavy halocarbon could reach stratosphere. Nevertheless, thanks to "environmental" activists, DuPont had become richer.
- bildung 5y agoYou seem to have mixed up your conspiracies, DuPont itself was the one calling ozone depletion "a science fiction tale … a load of rubbish … utter nonsense", according to wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion
- parsimo2010 5y agoOzone isn’t a halocarbon and it doesn’t “reach” the stratosphere, it’s formed there. It’s also not a mystery; the upper ozone layer is formed from atmospheric oxygen and radiation from the sun. Since your predicating information is false then whatever conspiracy theory you’re implying probably isn’t true. And while I’m sure some companies profited from prohibiting CFCs, stopping ozone depletion is one of the few things humanity has done with measurable effects. If a few companies made money from it that’s fine. It would be great if we could tie a profit motive to fixing climate change.
- beowulfey 5y agoHere is the original report [1]. For those of you who quip that the number of environmental activists has also been increasing in recent years (talk about being so close to realizing the point), I also want to clarify that Global Witness, the NGO who put out the report, has only been tracking these numbers since 2012. [1] https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/environmental-activists/last-line-defence/ https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/environmental-act...
- q1w2 5y agoIt looks like these are mostly journalists being killed covering things like the drug trade or gang activities in developing countries. I don't see any connection to the deaths and climate change.
- sshine 5y agoYou’re citing a report that literally doesn’t make that statement. Where do you get this information? Here’s an excerpt about Columbia, where I’d expect drugs to be involved: “Colombia was once again the country with the highest recorded attacks, with 65 defenders killed in 2020.* A third of these attacks targeted indigenous and afro-descendant people, and almost half were against small-scale farmers.” If you don’t see the connection, you’re either not reading the report you’re responding to, or you’re leaving out information.
- beowulfey 5y agoAs per the title, you are right that it is not strictly about climate change — they were often environmental activists fighting against destructive land use conditions. You can find more details on page 12 of the official report I linked.
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- hazza_n_dazza 5y agoreading all the threads here, about murder ratios is a really good reason not to have engineers as politicians
- cornel_io 5y agoBeing fully informed and cognizant about the true systemic machinations of the system that you're manipulating as a politician seems like it's a good thing, not a bad thing. Asking for more carefully split-out info before YOLOing a policy prescription is something I've pretty much never seen but would love to. On the other hand, declaring that you're right without a goddamned shred of statistical info is just wrong, no matter what side you're on (and that's most of the debate on this article, since there's no useful info presented). The best engineers (and math/science people) I know ask tough questions about policies that their own parties are pushing; I've rarely seen a humanities major do that unless it was because of some niche "against-the-grain" identity issue they were plumping for. I do know a couple humanities folks who eventually realized they needed to learn more about math/stats to be able to justify their statements, and in every case they became more rationalist once they understood the toolkit. So: bad tech people are dumbasses, just like bad humanities majors are (and they will always be if they don't understand math, science, and tech). We should stop electing both, but we never will. But let's not throw the fucking baby out with the bathwater when it comes to preferences, please.
- shapefrog 5y agoYeah, becuase it is working out so well limiting the pool of politicians it to just grifters and conmen who were too shit to sell used cars for a living.
- inglor_cz 5y agoI am split on this. If we consider human lives to be equal in value, concentration on a small, though outrageous death cause, may kill many more other people out of neglect / insufficient attention to another phenomenon. On the other hand, 1000 more murders for 10 000 less cancer deaths does not sound like a good tradeoff either.
- throwaway8689 5y agoWhat do the BBC or Global Witness want me to do with this information? Edit: Global Witness are campaigners. What do they want to happen as a consequence of writing this report? In 2003 possibly the biggest march London ever saw, failed to stop the UK going to war in Iraq, and nobody got killed on the march. Sabotage with a monkey wrench does tend to make a practical difference but also means you're at risk of a beating or worse from from the work site guards.
- hammyhavoc 5y agoWhat does any publication want you to do with any information? Consume, share, justify and ensure their continued existence.
- WriterGuy2021 5y agoNobody cares -- that's the sad truth. Most people are just running to stay in the same place on the corporate capitalist hamster wheel. I don't think people are free enough to care about morals and things that matter beyond their own life. I know the bourgeoise on here hate to hear these things, but it's true. People certainly claim to care about climate change, but most do so only in order to reap the identity benefit. If saving the planet means making less money and living a more modest lifestyle, most people will say no. The outrage is mostly superficial. "Tired with all these, for restful death I cry."
- otikik 5y agoWhy isn't this called "terrorism"? If it was the opposite - if the CEOs of the companies were being killed, it would be called "eco-terrorism".
- hulitu 5y agoBecause those in power define who are the terrorists.
- zalequin 5y agoTrue, but you don’t have to parrot what those in power tell you to say. Use their own terms against them, or use a completely different terminology - just make sure you’re the one who defines the terms, and that you’re the one to create context (i.e. meaning). Gather enough people who share the world-view you’ve created and you have a chance to overthrow existing power structures. But even if you don’t, you’ll be “free” - at least in the mental sense. Of course, depending on how radically different your views are from the status quo, you might also seem insane to some people (in which case its probably best to smile, nod and agree to what others are saying)
- oefrha 5y agoI skimmed the report.[1] Very few corporation names can be found, unless I missed them. I found some attributions in highlight stories, e.g. Tate & Lyle Sugars in a Thailand case of sugar plantation taking land by force; but those are few and isolated. IMO a list of names of people murdered means almost nothing to any reader beyond the symbolic value. Now, if you also attach the names of responsible/beneficiary corporations in each case, especially the multinationals, it would be a lot more powerful. [1] https://www.globalwitness.org/documents/20190/Last_line_of_defence_-_low_res_-_September_2021.pdf https://www.globalwitness.org/documents/20190/Last_line_of_d... (warning: it has `content-disposition: attachment` so it will be downloaded rather than opened by your browser)
- scatters 5y agoAre you saying that an environmental activist being murdered is only newsworthy if you can find a way to pin the blame on a Western corporation? That seems a fairly callous attitude to take.
- oefrha 5y agoWho said Western? Are corporations or specifically multinationals uniquely Western? What a weird thing to get defensive about.
- scatters 5y agoYes, of course multinationals are Western - they're creatures of the Western system of bilateral investor-rights treaties and the largely Anglo-American corporate legal system. Chinese and Russian companies may operate outside their own territory, but they don't have the distributed ownership and management to qualify as multinational.
- oefrha 5y agoComing up with your own narrow definition of a widely accepted term and attacking someone else for using its widely accepted definition is a one-way ticket to a toxic interaction, which ends here.
- riofoxx 5y agoT.o a.s.s.i.s.t y.o.u i.n t.r.a.d.e.s f.o.r b.e.t.t.e.r i.m.p.r.o.v.e.m.e.n.t on c.r.y.p.t.o.c.u.r.r.e.n.c.y W.h.a.t.s.A.p.p (+13052395906)
- jokoon 5y agoGael Giraud, a french economist and professor, says that ecology cannot live with private property. He gives the example that if someone discovers oil, nothing prevents that person from exploiting it, because private property can be found in most constitutions, including human rights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUOXrl9C8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUOXrl9C8g It's a difficult subject, but it is going to be difficult to realize that capitalism and the culture of individualism are real obstacle to climate reform. History will show that capitalism won against the soviet union, but I think that climate change is the limit of capitalism. Technology will not save us, only sobriety will truly help. Hard to know how you can convince an entire population to not eat meat, use bikes and public transport, without passing laws. The next 30 years are going quite a depressingly entertaining spectacle.
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." With inequality worsening, and the existential threat to humanity generally revolving around cooperation and the surrender of resources... Bad times are coming.