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The Applecare Hustle

79 points by DenverCode 5y ago

Hamuko 5y ago
This seems crazy expensive. $2,097 in the span of three years? My home insurance is merely about 130 € per year and covers all of the accidental damage to all Apple (and all other) products in my home. Granted, the deductible is 150 €, so I'd only be able to get the screen repair of my Apple Watch down to 150 € (instead of $99), but it seems like hell of a lot better option than buying AppleCare.
- crazygringo 5y ago
  How on earth is home insurance so cheap in the UK? In the US, the average policy is around $1,500/yr, the deductible is $500-$2,500, and your rates will go up the more claims you make -- so obviously nobody uses it for a damaged phone. I'm baffled by how UK insurers could possibly turn a profit on insurance... if people were filing a claim for every piece of technology they owned every time they accidentally damaged something, it seems like that alone would make it unprofitable. Not even accounting for, you know, actual theft and home damage. I feel like something's missing here but I can't tell what.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    wait till you check indian rates. if you open this link, give a random name, phone, email, and set place to delhi, property value to lets say 2 Crore and home contents value at 10 Lacs, which is around us $ 284,000 and that is a big big home in india. 95% cant even afford it. anyways, for this huge property value, the monthly premium comes at a mere USD $ 11/month. yeah. https://www.policybazaar.com/home-insurance-calculator/ https://www.policybazaar.com/home-insurance-calculator/
  - cr1895 5y ago
    I doubt they’re in the UK…they mentioned euros and not pounds. Perhaps it is renter’s insurance? For me in the Netherlands that’s only €12 or something per month.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      Yup, not in the UK. And nope, home insurance for an owner-occupied apartment.
  - Accacin 5y ago
    Well if what you're saying is true, home insurance is definitely cheaper in the UK. Here it's split into home insurance and contents insurance, if you rent you only require contents insurance but if you own a house you generally get both combined. For my house (home and contents), I pay about £250 which is quite a bit higher than usual because this area had a history of flooding (before they put flood defenses) and I insure some high value items extra which increases cost. My excess (I guess you call it a deductable) is £250.
apazzolini 5y ago
The only Apple device I buy Applecare for is the Airpods because the battery really does degrade dramatically. I set a calendar reminder for a few weeks before expiration to get them replaced.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  Check out Podswap: https://www.thepodswap.com/ https://www.thepodswap.com/
ssivark 5y ago
1. Is this much repair indicative of abnormal use, or are Apple products not really robustly designed? 2. Why are repairs so damn expensive? Several hundred dollars each to repair a scratched screen or replace a torn earcup fabric!?!?!?!?
- josephcsible 5y ago
  1. The latter. 2. Apple's greedy anti-repair tactics. Louis Rossmann's videos are definitely worth watching.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  What tech products are robustly designed? The market incentives are towards disposability. Send it to the landfill and buy a new one, the new model is better anyway.
  - doublepg23 5y ago
    There's a cult around thinkpads, but even those have gone to the wayside in recent years.
    - Semaphor 5y ago
      The ThinkPads lost their reputation shortly after the sale to Lenovo.
      - vurpo 5y ago
        Some of the most popular ThinkPads, even among diehard ThinkPad fanatics, are from well into the Lenovo era. Say, for example, the X220, X300, T420. They came out several years after IBM stopped having anything to do with ThinkPads, and they are exactly as durable and easily repairable as the old reputation of ThinkPads say they are.
        steerablesafe 5y ago
        Thinkpads are not that easily repairable. Accessing the fan assembly is notoriously cumbersome. For accessing the fan assembly in a T420 you need to remove the keyboard, various PCI cards, the speakers and even the display. • “1010 Battery pack” on page 67 • “1020 ExpressCard blank bezel” on page 68 • “1050 DIMM slot cover” on page 73 • “1070 PCI Express Mini Card for wireless WAN” on page 75 • “1080 Keyboard” on page 77 • “1110 PCI Express Mini Card for wireless LAN” on page 85 • “1120 Keyboard bezel assembly, FPC cable, and Bluethooth daughter card” on page 87 • “1150 Speaker assembly” on page 95 • “1160 LCD unit” on page 97 https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t420_t420i_hmm.pdf https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/... I had many laptops and I can say that the accessing the fan assembly was far easier in non-thinkpad ones. I like to clean the fans by directly accessing them, a gust of compressed air cleaning it is wishful thinking.
mehwoot 5y ago
In contrast, the insured often relies on a recollection of their history and a ton of emotional reasoning to decide if they will be the statistical oddity to make "a profit" of having bought insurance. This isn't generally the point of insurance. The point of insurance is to amortise risk. Yes, the insurance company expects to, on average, get more money from insuring my house than the cost of any damage to it. But if something really bad happened to my house, it would cost far more than the sum of my insurance payments to fix it, and I don't have that sort of money. I am losing money on average, but I guarantee I will always have a house, so overall I am better off by reducing the extremeness of the worst case situations. This is why I don't buy insurance or extended warranty for anything I can pay to replace. A company wouldn't offer it if they didn't expect to make money, and I can afford to replace a phone or my luggage, so I'm happy to just take the risk. I buy home insurance because I can't afford to replace my house and travel insurance because there are countries where emergency medical bills can bankrupt you. The government also forces me to buy third party insurance to drive my car, which seems fair enough since I can't afford to pay damages for someone permanently crippled from negligent driving. In the case here for apple care, I'm not sure. What apple charges for repairs almost definitely has markup, so it's possible that they can provide insurance that averages out below the expected "cost" of repairs but still makes apple money. So maybe it is actually a win-win. Definitely makes sense to add it all up and see if you're getting value for money.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  > What apple charges for repairs almost definitely has markup, so it's possible that they can provide insurance that averages out below the expected "cost" of repairs but still makes apple money. For them to make money from offering the insurance, it would have to be a gain over their alternative of you not having the insurance and then paying them to repair the device if it breaks. They also have to be making enough to cover the moral hazard. People who buy insurance are more careless because someone else pays for the carelessness, so the insurance has to be more expensive by the amount of the resulting increase in damage.
  - beagle3 5y ago
pavlov 5y ago
I buy AppleCare on any Mac that I expect to probably resell down the road, since it transfers with the device. It improves the resale value enough to make the insurance a more attractive proposition.
- kalleboo 5y ago
  Also you can often find a reason to have the top case replaced which gives you a clean keyboard and new battery, further increasing resale value
lobochrome 5y ago
I remember a course on game theory at business school where we proved all insurance to be non-optimal. There were two ways to deal with catastrophic risk if I recall correctly, depending on the gain function: a) if catastrophic risk is infinite - no premium will be acceptable due to price. b) if catastrophic risk is discrete - it is optimal not to insure since the expected loss is ruinous anyways. Led me to be highly skeptical of all insurance ever since. Paying out of pocket previously felt scary - now it feels good since I know I am saving money with acceptable risk. Of course - I am more than happy to have mandatory insurance for healthcare, liability, etc. since I am not living in the US. Going back to my game theory text books now :)
- Rainymood 5y ago
  In theory, theory and practice are the same. If you are interested in this and want to further your studies in this field try looking up this thing called "Prospect theory", it's like game theory+.
- choeger 5y ago
  There are certain risks you simply cannot pay out-of-pocket: Car accidents (my car is insured to 20M in damages p.p.), house destruction (you usually already have one mortgage), or inability to work in your profession (e.g., by becoming blind). The former cases are so expensive you cannot expect to save money or take a loan and pay off the damages. The latter case impacts your ability to earn money in the first place. An insurance company makes money because they don't expect many of these cases to happen at once. But that's not a position you should take.
  - echelon 5y ago
    > my car is insured to 20M in damages p.p. How much does that policy cost? Are you hedging against running into a gas pipeline, school bus full of children, or something along those lines? I'm honestly really curious about this.
    - choeger 5y ago
wefarrell 5y ago
An independent repair shop would have been able to perform those repairs for ~1/5th the price. This is what I've experienced when comparison shopping repairs.
- techrat 5y ago
  Which is why Apple is doing everything they can to serialize parts like the display. They always have been the worst about locking out third party repairs since the second Jobs era.
pbourke 5y ago
My last phone was replaced once and my current one has been replaced twice, both under AppleCare. I view AC as “phone as a service”, which is reasonable. The recent option to add accidental drop and theft coverage onto the base AppleCare seems to be making that explicit. I’d like to always have a phone and have it be replaced quickly if it goes kaput.
- ksec 5y ago
  > I view AC as “phone as a service”, which is reasonable. They really should have done this with their Services Strategy, not trying to push Apple Music, TV, App Store etc.
  - BurritoAlPastor 5y ago
    They did; it’s called the iPhone Upgrade Program.
    - ksec 5y ago
      Only in selected countries though. And mostly pushed in US and not anywhere else.
      - oefrha 5y ago
        Huh, TIL it's only available in US, UK and China. I wonder what's the barrier elsewhere.
ed25519FUUU 5y ago
> 2021: Dropped, broken screen (365$ repair down to $0 under AppleCare) iPhone screen repairs cost almost $400??
- doublepg23 5y ago
  OLED screens are still surprisingly expensive IME, especially at the high quality Apple procures. It's $200 for a modern iPhone screen itself on eBay, and adding labor plus Apple tax it doesn't seem that insane.
  - ksec 5y ago
    >OLED screens are still surprisingly expensive IME OLED has actually been cheaper than LCD since 2020 for Mobile Display Panel at the same PPI. Even at it peak ( iPhone X ) including glass it wouldn't cost Apple more than $120. Right now it down close to $80. Mostly because Apple insist on using flexible display and how they blend the notch. There are plenty more OLED cost optimisation coming in the next 10 years.
- lamnk 5y ago
  News at 11: Apple aftersale parts are extremely expensive. Be prepared to pay for two third of a new iPhone or Macbook if their mainboards go south in the case they do not fall under Apple warranty program.
Chernobog 5y ago
AppleCare is such a non-issue here in Norway. We have five years of "reklamasjon" (think of it as kind of a mandatory warranty). I wonder how electronics would have been built if this was a global thing.
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Surely that doesn't cover accidental damage like AppleCare does? Apple already provides normal warranties too.
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    Isn’t the iPhone warranty just one year in the USA?
  - simonh 5y ago
    Not accidental damage, but it can cover things like battery failures, screen lamination issues, glitchy circuitry, etc.
- dfawcus 5y ago
  Essentially the same applies in the UK and Ireland, when the EU warranty thing was brought in (2 years cover), nothing changed as the existing legislation in both states gave longer protection. 5 years in Scotland, 6 in England; I can't recall what Ireland has but believe it is in the same region 5-6. However one has to know it exists, and argue the point with the supplier, and they will often try to push back. Added: This is for the goods being of merchantable quality, not for accidental damage.
rietta 5y ago
AppleCare (a manufacturer’s original warranty) plus a one to two year credit card extended warranty is pure gold. Apple or Amex has paid to repair or replace every MacBook Pro I have owned for 13 years. Think of it this way, laptops by their nature do not fair well under heavy usage in the year after Apple designed them to last.
brailsafe 5y ago
This guy, true to his name, buys a lot of Apple products and Applecare. I've had decent results with only purchasing AppleCare on my laptop (though unhappy that I had to and sometimes being told I'm required to wait for them to ship it away for a week), but found that Apple has tried to outright scam people with older hardware and trivial repairs. Sometimes suggesting what they definitely wouldn't be so keen to do under warranty, such as replacing their entire computer instead of getting their battery or screen replaced. Sadly, I've had to have enough major defects that while I'd continue buying Macbooks, I'd have to buy the extra coverage, and I guess that's probably by design.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
In my case, getting AppleCare on my computers has well been worth it. I use laptops, pretty much exclusively, though they spend most of their lives docked. They run continuously, for 10-16 hours per day, fans whirring (Xcode, dontcha know). I treat my computers well, but ride them hard. Cosmetically, they always look great, but I have had some severe problems. My 2017 MBP suffered multiple problems at once, and they ended up replacing pretty much the entire internal computer (not sure why they didn’t just replace the whole unit).
FiReaNG3L 5y ago
Fun bit is that in this precise case, the people selling you the insurance are the same people that set the cost of repair... no way that they are inflating the second to justify the first, is it?
jeroenhd 5y ago
The real hustle isn't Apple's insurance, but the ludicrous prices they ask for repairs. $380 for replacing some foam? $380 + 2 x $115 for a manufacturing defect? Hell, $700 dollars for replacing a screen? Or even worse, $520 for fixing some basic issues with a watch? For all of those repair estimates you could've bought one or even two similar devices from other brands. I understand that people get locked into the Apple ecosystem, but even then they should be able to spot these outrageous bills, shouldn't they? Apple can greenwash their product all they want but as long as it's cheaper to buy a new device from their competitors each year than to repair their old devices, their claims can go right intotthe garbage. I've paid €200 for a screen repair on my phone, of which the part itself cost about $120 (because I couldn't be arsed to learn how to use a heat gun) for a screen that's bigger and is frankly of better quality than that of a similarly sized iPhone of the same build year. The screen replacement service was a third party, so they didn't even have the advantage of controlling the flow of replacement parts to repair centers, instead having to buy the components off the internet. Apple's repair program is a complete sham, and the fact someone has needed this many repairs in only three years is a testament of their devices' lack in build quality to boot.
- mbjdesign 5y ago
  I came here to say this. Whether you take out AppleCare or just take repair costs on the chin: Apple is probably walking away with a decent chunk of cash because the cost of repairs are so high relative to the cost to them - even in the case where a "repair" is actually a replacement. As most repairs (screens for example) are capped within the AppleCare period and carry an excess I think the only situation where Apple doesn't make a profit is when breakages and faults are solely their fault and a result of poor engineering. As we all know, they are terrible at admitting fault in these instances because what it could cost them is mind-boggling. The other point I took from this post is how increasingly fragile these devices are. Aside from a pre-unibody 17" MacBook Pro that regularly fried it's components, all my iDevices have been pretty reliable and sturdy. That said my iPhone 7 Plus suffered a smashed screen from far less abuse than my 4S did. Equally my wife's new 12 Mini seems even more prone to damage than the 7 Plus. If I was repairing or replacing devices as much as he seems to be (particularly headphones) then I'd be reconsidering my purchasing preferences. You wouldn't buy a car where where misfires and free replacements are expected (as with most AirPods and crackling issues) - you would find an alternative.
tomduncalf 5y ago
I feel it's been worth it for me on my laptop (top spec 16"), I had one of the cursed 2017 butterfly models which I eventually got them to replace with a 2019 model (with a spec bump, which I paid extra for) after multiple repairs. I might have been able to get the replacement without AppleCare (under EU consumer law for example) but I definitely got the sense that it was much easier because I had AppleCare. I then spilled beer over the replacement and was able to get basically the entire laptop replaced for the ~£300 accidental damage charge. I might have been able to claim this on my home insurance, but again, much more straightforward with AppleCare. Not sure I'd bother on lower priced items though.
rubyfan 5y ago
The article misses the point of insurance (which AppleCare actually isn’t technically). AppleCare is an extend warranty program which includes accidental damage coverage. There is a manufacturer/ customer relationship component here that the author might be overlooking. Those expensive but cosmetic fixes aren’t the kind of thing you use insurance for generally. If you are Apple you might be happy to keep your customers on the latest OEM accessories and machines in good repair. Profit on the plan isn’t the only reason to offer AppleCare. Keeping consumers buying the next greatest Apple device might be part of how Apple value AppleCare. Apple may be designing the coverage to be used as the author is using it in which case makes the plan less profitable than we all might imagine. However the overall customer lifetime value benefit to Apple is probably still positive.
- Syzygies 5y ago
  Yes. I could work for AppleCare phone support. All my friends call me instead. When I need to call, I'd do well betting a year's salary that the first person won't know the answer. I always get escalated, sometimes to someone with a deep understanding of the issue. I'm willing to pay for that, as I have trouble letting go otherwise. AppleCare buys me back days of my life. This article threw me, first with the "you're" in the caption, then the muddled second paragraph. It's a "Where's Waldo?" of grammatical errors. I lost count.
elil17 5y ago
Compare it to the cost of third party repairs and AppleCare starts looking like a truly bad deal. I paid $70 to replace my iPhone 7 screen this year, which would have cost $150 from Apple themselves.
FredDollen 5y ago
Read thru all the comments, and surprised to see nobody recommending self insurance. For gadgets like this, take the money you would have paid for insurance and put it in a savings account. If you need a repair, pay from that account. After several years, you'll build up a substantial balance.
cassac 5y ago
Looks like he’s not including the repair fees, so his apple car costs are actually 198 more. But this is only for 3 years??? Some people are just prone to break stuff I guess.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
thinkloop 5y ago
Insurance is a premium paid to reduce volatility. If one can afford the volatility, then that person should definitely not get the insurance. A typical HN'er should probably not insure things under $2K. Insurance is NOT about trying to "profit" by better analysing a transaction. It is a service purchased for volatility-reduction.

79 points by DenverCode 5y ago

This seems crazy expensive. $2,097 in the span of three years? My home insurance is merely about 130 € per year and covers all of the accidental damage to all Apple (and all other) products in my home. Granted, the deductible is 150 €, so I'd only be able to get the screen repair of my Apple Watch down to 150 € (instead of $99), but it seems like hell of a lot better option than buying AppleCare.

crazygringo 5y ago
How on earth is home insurance so cheap in the UK? In the US, the average policy is around $1,500/yr, the deductible is $500-$2,500, and your rates will go up the more claims you make -- so obviously nobody uses it for a damaged phone. I'm baffled by how UK insurers could possibly turn a profit on insurance... if people were filing a claim for every piece of technology they owned every time they accidentally damaged something, it seems like that alone would make it unprofitable. Not even accounting for, you know, actual theft and home damage. I feel like something's missing here but I can't tell what.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  wait till you check indian rates. if you open this link, give a random name, phone, email, and set place to delhi, property value to lets say 2 Crore and home contents value at 10 Lacs, which is around us $ 284,000 and that is a big big home in india. 95% cant even afford it. anyways, for this huge property value, the monthly premium comes at a mere USD $ 11/month. yeah. https://www.policybazaar.com/home-insurance-calculator/ https://www.policybazaar.com/home-insurance-calculator/
- cr1895 5y ago
  I doubt they’re in the UK…they mentioned euros and not pounds. Perhaps it is renter’s insurance? For me in the Netherlands that’s only €12 or something per month.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Yup, not in the UK. And nope, home insurance for an owner-occupied apartment.
- Accacin 5y ago
  Well if what you're saying is true, home insurance is definitely cheaper in the UK. Here it's split into home insurance and contents insurance, if you rent you only require contents insurance but if you own a house you generally get both combined. For my house (home and contents), I pay about £250 which is quite a bit higher than usual because this area had a history of flooding (before they put flood defenses) and I insure some high value items extra which increases cost. My excess (I guess you call it a deductable) is £250.

apazzolini 5y ago

The only Apple device I buy Applecare for is the Airpods because the battery really does degrade dramatically. I set a calendar reminder for a few weeks before expiration to get them replaced.

colejohnson66 5y ago
Check out Podswap: https://www.thepodswap.com/ https://www.thepodswap.com/

ssivark 5y ago

1. Is this much repair indicative of abnormal use, or are Apple products not really robustly designed? 2. Why are repairs so damn expensive? Several hundred dollars each to repair a scratched screen or replace a torn earcup fabric!?!?!?!?

josephcsible 5y ago
1. The latter. 2. Apple's greedy anti-repair tactics. Louis Rossmann's videos are definitely worth watching.
kennywinker 5y ago
What tech products are robustly designed? The market incentives are towards disposability. Send it to the landfill and buy a new one, the new model is better anyway.
- doublepg23 5y ago
  There's a cult around thinkpads, but even those have gone to the wayside in recent years.
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    The ThinkPads lost their reputation shortly after the sale to Lenovo.
    - vurpo 5y ago
      Some of the most popular ThinkPads, even among diehard ThinkPad fanatics, are from well into the Lenovo era. Say, for example, the X220, X300, T420. They came out several years after IBM stopped having anything to do with ThinkPads, and they are exactly as durable and easily repairable as the old reputation of ThinkPads say they are.
      - steerablesafe 5y ago
        Thinkpads are not that easily repairable. Accessing the fan assembly is notoriously cumbersome. For accessing the fan assembly in a T420 you need to remove the keyboard, various PCI cards, the speakers and even the display. • “1010 Battery pack” on page 67 • “1020 ExpressCard blank bezel” on page 68 • “1050 DIMM slot cover” on page 73 • “1070 PCI Express Mini Card for wireless WAN” on page 75 • “1080 Keyboard” on page 77 • “1110 PCI Express Mini Card for wireless LAN” on page 85 • “1120 Keyboard bezel assembly, FPC cable, and Bluethooth daughter card” on page 87 • “1150 Speaker assembly” on page 95 • “1160 LCD unit” on page 97 https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t420_t420i_hmm.pdf https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/... I had many laptops and I can say that the accessing the fan assembly was far easier in non-thinkpad ones. I like to clean the fans by directly accessing them, a gust of compressed air cleaning it is wishful thinking.

mehwoot 5y ago

In contrast, the insured often relies on a recollection of their history and a ton of emotional reasoning to decide if they will be the statistical oddity to make "a profit" of having bought insurance. This isn't generally the point of insurance. The point of insurance is to amortise risk. Yes, the insurance company expects to, on average, get more money from insuring my house than the cost of any damage to it. But if something really bad happened to my house, it would cost far more than the sum of my insurance payments to fix it, and I don't have that sort of money. I am losing money on average, but I guarantee I will always have a house, so overall I am better off by reducing the extremeness of the worst case situations. This is why I don't buy insurance or extended warranty for anything I can pay to replace. A company wouldn't offer it if they didn't expect to make money, and I can afford to replace a phone or my luggage, so I'm happy to just take the risk. I buy home insurance because I can't afford to replace my house and travel insurance because there are countries where emergency medical bills can bankrupt you. The government also forces me to buy third party insurance to drive my car, which seems fair enough since I can't afford to pay damages for someone permanently crippled from negligent driving. In the case here for apple care, I'm not sure. What apple charges for repairs almost definitely has markup, so it's possible that they can provide insurance that averages out below the expected "cost" of repairs but still makes apple money. So maybe it is actually a win-win. Definitely makes sense to add it all up and see if you're getting value for money.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> What apple charges for repairs almost definitely has markup, so it's possible that they can provide insurance that averages out below the expected "cost" of repairs but still makes apple money. For them to make money from offering the insurance, it would have to be a gain over their alternative of you not having the insurance and then paying them to repair the device if it breaks. They also have to be making enough to cover the moral hazard. People who buy insurance are more careless because someone else pays for the carelessness, so the insurance has to be more expensive by the amount of the resulting increase in damage.
- beagle3 5y ago

pavlov 5y ago

I buy AppleCare on any Mac that I expect to probably resell down the road, since it transfers with the device. It improves the resale value enough to make the insurance a more attractive proposition.

kalleboo 5y ago
Also you can often find a reason to have the top case replaced which gives you a clean keyboard and new battery, further increasing resale value

lobochrome 5y ago

I remember a course on game theory at business school where we proved all insurance to be non-optimal. There were two ways to deal with catastrophic risk if I recall correctly, depending on the gain function: a) if catastrophic risk is infinite - no premium will be acceptable due to price. b) if catastrophic risk is discrete - it is optimal not to insure since the expected loss is ruinous anyways. Led me to be highly skeptical of all insurance ever since. Paying out of pocket previously felt scary - now it feels good since I know I am saving money with acceptable risk. Of course - I am more than happy to have mandatory insurance for healthcare, liability, etc. since I am not living in the US. Going back to my game theory text books now :)

Rainymood 5y ago
In theory, theory and practice are the same. If you are interested in this and want to further your studies in this field try looking up this thing called "Prospect theory", it's like game theory+.
choeger 5y ago
There are certain risks you simply cannot pay out-of-pocket: Car accidents (my car is insured to 20M in damages p.p.), house destruction (you usually already have one mortgage), or inability to work in your profession (e.g., by becoming blind). The former cases are so expensive you cannot expect to save money or take a loan and pay off the damages. The latter case impacts your ability to earn money in the first place. An insurance company makes money because they don't expect many of these cases to happen at once. But that's not a position you should take.
- echelon 5y ago
  > my car is insured to 20M in damages p.p. How much does that policy cost? Are you hedging against running into a gas pipeline, school bus full of children, or something along those lines? I'm honestly really curious about this.
  - choeger 5y ago

wefarrell 5y ago

An independent repair shop would have been able to perform those repairs for ~1/5th the price. This is what I've experienced when comparison shopping repairs.

techrat 5y ago
Which is why Apple is doing everything they can to serialize parts like the display. They always have been the worst about locking out third party repairs since the second Jobs era.

pbourke 5y ago

My last phone was replaced once and my current one has been replaced twice, both under AppleCare. I view AC as “phone as a service”, which is reasonable. The recent option to add accidental drop and theft coverage onto the base AppleCare seems to be making that explicit. I’d like to always have a phone and have it be replaced quickly if it goes kaput.

ksec 5y ago
> I view AC as “phone as a service”, which is reasonable. They really should have done this with their Services Strategy, not trying to push Apple Music, TV, App Store etc.
- BurritoAlPastor 5y ago
  They did; it’s called the iPhone Upgrade Program.
  - ksec 5y ago
    Only in selected countries though. And mostly pushed in US and not anywhere else.
    - oefrha 5y ago
      Huh, TIL it's only available in US, UK and China. I wonder what's the barrier elsewhere.

ed25519FUUU 5y ago

> 2021: Dropped, broken screen (365$ repair down to $0 under AppleCare) iPhone screen repairs cost almost $400??

doublepg23 5y ago
OLED screens are still surprisingly expensive IME, especially at the high quality Apple procures. It's $200 for a modern iPhone screen itself on eBay, and adding labor plus Apple tax it doesn't seem that insane.
- ksec 5y ago
  >OLED screens are still surprisingly expensive IME OLED has actually been cheaper than LCD since 2020 for Mobile Display Panel at the same PPI. Even at it peak ( iPhone X ) including glass it wouldn't cost Apple more than $120. Right now it down close to $80. Mostly because Apple insist on using flexible display and how they blend the notch. There are plenty more OLED cost optimisation coming in the next 10 years.
lamnk 5y ago
News at 11: Apple aftersale parts are extremely expensive. Be prepared to pay for two third of a new iPhone or Macbook if their mainboards go south in the case they do not fall under Apple warranty program.

Chernobog 5y ago

AppleCare is such a non-issue here in Norway. We have five years of "reklamasjon" (think of it as kind of a mandatory warranty). I wonder how electronics would have been built if this was a global thing.

exporectomy 5y ago
Surely that doesn't cover accidental damage like AppleCare does? Apple already provides normal warranties too.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  Isn’t the iPhone warranty just one year in the USA?
- simonh 5y ago
  Not accidental damage, but it can cover things like battery failures, screen lamination issues, glitchy circuitry, etc.
dfawcus 5y ago
Essentially the same applies in the UK and Ireland, when the EU warranty thing was brought in (2 years cover), nothing changed as the existing legislation in both states gave longer protection. 5 years in Scotland, 6 in England; I can't recall what Ireland has but believe it is in the same region 5-6. However one has to know it exists, and argue the point with the supplier, and they will often try to push back. Added: This is for the goods being of merchantable quality, not for accidental damage.

rietta 5y ago

AppleCare (a manufacturer’s original warranty) plus a one to two year credit card extended warranty is pure gold. Apple or Amex has paid to repair or replace every MacBook Pro I have owned for 13 years. Think of it this way, laptops by their nature do not fair well under heavy usage in the year after Apple designed them to last.

brailsafe 5y ago

This guy, true to his name, buys a lot of Apple products and Applecare. I've had decent results with only purchasing AppleCare on my laptop (though unhappy that I had to and sometimes being told I'm required to wait for them to ship it away for a week), but found that Apple has tried to outright scam people with older hardware and trivial repairs. Sometimes suggesting what they definitely wouldn't be so keen to do under warranty, such as replacing their entire computer instead of getting their battery or screen replaced. Sadly, I've had to have enough major defects that while I'd continue buying Macbooks, I'd have to buy the extra coverage, and I guess that's probably by design.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

In my case, getting AppleCare on my computers has well been worth it. I use laptops, pretty much exclusively, though they spend most of their lives docked. They run continuously, for 10-16 hours per day, fans whirring (Xcode, dontcha know). I treat my computers well, but ride them hard. Cosmetically, they always look great, but I have had some severe problems. My 2017 MBP suffered multiple problems at once, and they ended up replacing pretty much the entire internal computer (not sure why they didn’t just replace the whole unit).

FiReaNG3L 5y ago

Fun bit is that in this precise case, the people selling you the insurance are the same people that set the cost of repair... no way that they are inflating the second to justify the first, is it?

jeroenhd 5y ago

The real hustle isn't Apple's insurance, but the ludicrous prices they ask for repairs. $380 for replacing some foam? $380 + 2 x $115 for a manufacturing defect? Hell, $700 dollars for replacing a screen? Or even worse, $520 for fixing some basic issues with a watch? For all of those repair estimates you could've bought one or even two similar devices from other brands. I understand that people get locked into the Apple ecosystem, but even then they should be able to spot these outrageous bills, shouldn't they? Apple can greenwash their product all they want but as long as it's cheaper to buy a new device from their competitors each year than to repair their old devices, their claims can go right intotthe garbage. I've paid €200 for a screen repair on my phone, of which the part itself cost about $120 (because I couldn't be arsed to learn how to use a heat gun) for a screen that's bigger and is frankly of better quality than that of a similarly sized iPhone of the same build year. The screen replacement service was a third party, so they didn't even have the advantage of controlling the flow of replacement parts to repair centers, instead having to buy the components off the internet. Apple's repair program is a complete sham, and the fact someone has needed this many repairs in only three years is a testament of their devices' lack in build quality to boot.

mbjdesign 5y ago
I came here to say this. Whether you take out AppleCare or just take repair costs on the chin: Apple is probably walking away with a decent chunk of cash because the cost of repairs are so high relative to the cost to them - even in the case where a "repair" is actually a replacement. As most repairs (screens for example) are capped within the AppleCare period and carry an excess I think the only situation where Apple doesn't make a profit is when breakages and faults are solely their fault and a result of poor engineering. As we all know, they are terrible at admitting fault in these instances because what it could cost them is mind-boggling. The other point I took from this post is how increasingly fragile these devices are. Aside from a pre-unibody 17" MacBook Pro that regularly fried it's components, all my iDevices have been pretty reliable and sturdy. That said my iPhone 7 Plus suffered a smashed screen from far less abuse than my 4S did. Equally my wife's new 12 Mini seems even more prone to damage than the 7 Plus. If I was repairing or replacing devices as much as he seems to be (particularly headphones) then I'd be reconsidering my purchasing preferences. You wouldn't buy a car where where misfires and free replacements are expected (as with most AirPods and crackling issues) - you would find an alternative.

tomduncalf 5y ago

I feel it's been worth it for me on my laptop (top spec 16"), I had one of the cursed 2017 butterfly models which I eventually got them to replace with a 2019 model (with a spec bump, which I paid extra for) after multiple repairs. I might have been able to get the replacement without AppleCare (under EU consumer law for example) but I definitely got the sense that it was much easier because I had AppleCare. I then spilled beer over the replacement and was able to get basically the entire laptop replaced for the ~£300 accidental damage charge. I might have been able to claim this on my home insurance, but again, much more straightforward with AppleCare. Not sure I'd bother on lower priced items though.

rubyfan 5y ago

The article misses the point of insurance (which AppleCare actually isn’t technically). AppleCare is an extend warranty program which includes accidental damage coverage. There is a manufacturer/ customer relationship component here that the author might be overlooking. Those expensive but cosmetic fixes aren’t the kind of thing you use insurance for generally. If you are Apple you might be happy to keep your customers on the latest OEM accessories and machines in good repair. Profit on the plan isn’t the only reason to offer AppleCare. Keeping consumers buying the next greatest Apple device might be part of how Apple value AppleCare. Apple may be designing the coverage to be used as the author is using it in which case makes the plan less profitable than we all might imagine. However the overall customer lifetime value benefit to Apple is probably still positive.

Syzygies 5y ago
Yes. I could work for AppleCare phone support. All my friends call me instead. When I need to call, I'd do well betting a year's salary that the first person won't know the answer. I always get escalated, sometimes to someone with a deep understanding of the issue. I'm willing to pay for that, as I have trouble letting go otherwise. AppleCare buys me back days of my life. This article threw me, first with the "you're" in the caption, then the muddled second paragraph. It's a "Where's Waldo?" of grammatical errors. I lost count.

elil17 5y ago

Compare it to the cost of third party repairs and AppleCare starts looking like a truly bad deal. I paid $70 to replace my iPhone 7 screen this year, which would have cost $150 from Apple themselves.

FredDollen 5y ago

Read thru all the comments, and surprised to see nobody recommending self insurance. For gadgets like this, take the money you would have paid for insurance and put it in a savings account. If you need a repair, pay from that account. After several years, you'll build up a substantial balance.

cassac 5y ago

Looks like he’s not including the repair fees, so his apple car costs are actually 198 more. But this is only for 3 years??? Some people are just prone to break stuff I guess.

deleted 5y ago

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thinkloop 5y ago

Insurance is a premium paid to reduce volatility. If one can afford the volatility, then that person should definitely not get the insurance. A typical HN'er should probably not insure things under $2K. Insurance is NOT about trying to "profit" by better analysing a transaction. It is a service purchased for volatility-reduction.