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Travel restrictions anywhere are ridiculous at this point. The virus is everywhere already.

brink 5y ago
Agreed. Everyone flying in and out is vetted and tested. That's more than anyone can say for their local supermarket. Borders are some of the most "covid-secure" places in the world. This shit is just politics at this point.
- nostromo 5y ago
  It's security theater, but in response to public health instead of terrorism concerns.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  > This shit is just politics at this point. I think it has been for a while. I don't remember the exact date, but around the end of 2020 / beginning 2021 at one point travel between France and the UK was allowed. Then suddenly, UK deemed France as too dangerous or something, which could be justified since cases in France were rising rapidly, whereas in Britain they were relatively stable. The next day, France halted travel from the UK "in retaliation". It seems to me that the level of danger of a country isn't particularly related to how that country's politicians view your own, but what do I know?
  - nradov 5y ago
    Are migrants still traveling from France to the UK by stowing away on commercial trucks? (And to be clear I'm not trying to make a political point about migration, just curious about the current state of border security.) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35807136 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35807136
  - swiley 5y ago
    Looking back it’s been that since April last year.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  > Everyone flying in and out is vetted and tested. A PCR test before your flight isn't a very good insurance policy. You can easily get infected between the time you take the test and the time you fly. And of course you can be infected in transit. Vaccination? Doesn't mean as much anymore thanks to Delta. Proof: 30% of all new COVID cases in Los Angeles are in fully vaccinated individuals. But yeah, at least as far as the US and EU are concerned, this is politics. Both places are nasty petri dishes at this point.
- RangerScience 5y ago
  Found out that a friend-of-a-friend tested positive while in another country (Costa Rica, I think?) so they got a fake negative test so they could return to the US and "recover at home".
  - nradov 5y ago
    The last time I travelled back to the US it was sufficient to show a PDF of a rapid antigen test from 3 days ago on my smartphone. Those are trivial to fake, there's no security on the files at all. (I don't encourage anyone to do that.)
  - effingwewt 5y ago
    Was walking through some apartments yesterday and a lady in a moomoo was talking with her neighbor. Their dogs were playing, they were just out enjoying the day. I hear moomoo lady say she in on forced at-home quarantine for covid. The poor neighbor. I saw the horror on her face as she scooped up her dog and ran away. I was so grateful for my mask, and I've had covid and am vaccinated. Moomoo lady had no mask, no gloves, couldn't have been any closer to her neighbor. She knew she was sick, just could not have cared less. It's truly mind boggling some care absolutely nothing for others. Maybe it's always been this way and covid just made it all visible.
- klipt 5y ago
  The tests are not perfect. Multiply their false negative rate, by the rate of infection in the country the traveler is from, and that is the rate of infection among people you're letting into the country. This is how variants like Delta can spread globally.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > This shit is just politics at this point. Always has been.
- 8note 5y ago
  Somehow, delta got from India to the US, so clearly those settings and testings aren't sufficient
- qnsi 5y ago
  but I think it's politics from US side. Vaccinated people from EU can't go to US. Meanwhile vaccinated people will still be able to come to EU from USA.
- dep_b 5y ago
  Yep. We've got double jabbed relatives from Argentina that are barred from travel because Sputnik V isn't approved. Yet it's one of the most effective vaccines out there.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
It's definitely the exception and not the rule, but Taiwan is a counterexample. We've had less than 16,000 total cases here, most of which stemmed from an outbreak in May that is now under control. The border is basically only open to citizens and residents, and everybody has to quarantine for 14 days at an approved quarantine hotel or government facility regardless of vaccination status. PCR test no earlier than 3 days before your flight, PCR test upon arrival, rapid test 10 days into quarantine, and PCR test right before your quarantine ends. Inconvenient? Yes. Expensive? Yes. But you can't argue with the results. Life is pretty damn good here and at least for the time being, Delta has not found its way into the community.
- xbmcuser 5y ago
  It was the same in Singapore large gatherings are restricted where as anyone coming into Singapore has to stay in quarantine for 2 weeks. The current local spread actually got through because of seafood delivery from a neighbouring country where it is assumed dock workers got it from the fisherman and spread it to the fishmongers and into the community. We have reached 80% vaccination for general population and 90% for 12+ because of that despite the spread the deaths are low. The situation would be a lot worse without vaccination and if a countries population is reticent about vaccination why the fuck should another country that is actually willing to vaccinate ignore the sacrifices of its own population.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  New Zealander here, living under similar rules. > Inconvenient? Yes. Expensive? Yes. But you can't argue with the results. Life is pretty damn good here and at least for the time being, Delta has not found its way into the community. Pretty much identical, but with the huge exception of a current Delta outbreak in the community. The next week will be the making or breaking of our chosen strategy.
soared 5y ago
Not really. Look at cases and deaths state by state in the us and there is huge disparity. Same with country by country. Travel restrictions slow spread which increase the number of vaccinated people.
octonion 5y ago
Americans have seemingly no interest in taking Delta seriously. Worse, many state governments are actively trying to make it as bad as possibly.
tonfa 5y ago
> Travel restrictions anywhere are ridiculous at this point. The virus is everywhere already. It can increase the spread though, here (CH) a large fraction of local case are tied to people coming back from holidays. Mandatory quarantine would likely help somewhat.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  > Mandatory quarantine would likely help somewhat. It helps a lot. However even strict quarantine leaks, and New Zealand has shutdown to try eradicate its current outbreak. Delta is incredibly transmissible and resistant to controls.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
csomar 5y ago
It's being used as a tool in a political war. You'd have to have your hand in the sand not to see it.
megablast 5y ago
There’s new variant popping up all the time. Your statement is pure ignorance.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- whycombagator 5y ago
  Yes and it never fails to propagate world wide despite the restrictions. Given that, what is your issue with the USA allowing vaccinated travellers, who are tested before boarding a flight, from entering the country?
  - ericb 5y ago
    If the new strain is more deadly, or more contagious, it is better to delay the arrival and have the explosion of cases come later--science will typically have more information and better treatments.
  - adventured 5y ago
    Let's consider for a moment that millions of illegal immigrants - very few of which have been vaccinated or tested before arriving in the US - have crossed the US southern border in the past year and the Biden Admin has shown zero interest in stopping that disaster. There is no scenario where that doesn't prove the US blockading itself from inbound travel (eg from Europe) is purely a con, health security theater. As an American it's embarrasing to watch the level of stupidity the US Government is putting on display in its Covid response.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    > Given that, what is your issue with the USA allowing vaccinated travellers... 30% of all new COVID cases in Los Angeles are in fully vaccinated individuals. Israel, one of the most highly vaccinated countries in the world, is reporting record new cases. The vaccines are effective at reducing the risk of severe illness and death, but the data is now very clear that they do not prevent people from becoming infected and infecting others. If the US wants to reduce the risk that it will be among the first in line to get every new variant, it would need to embrace the only approach that has proven effective: limit arrivals and force arrivals to quarantine for a sufficient amount of time. Of course, you could argue that the cost of this exceeds the benefits. But either way, it's time to let go of the idea that people who are vaccinated are not at risk of catching and spreading the virus. It's just not the case.
nickff 5y ago
These travel restrictions are just a way of scapegoating foreigners; anti-foreign bias is very strong.
- munk-a 5y ago
  I haven't seen the travel restrictions converted into xenophobia that much where I am. I tend to consume a spectrum of Canadian media and a few of the late night shows from the US - but the only thing I've noticed is more negativity in reporting in Canada about American handling.
  - nickff 5y ago
    Canada's government should win an award for incoherence. They called the USA racist for banning flights from China, then proceeded to ban flights from China one week later. Canada subsequently proceeded to ban non-essential trips to/from the USA by road, but only partially by air when the USA had a higher infection rate. Then, even after Canada achieved the same infection rate as border states, the government kept the travel ban, to no apparent gain. There are even more gems if you look for them: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/canadian-travellers-fined-5-700-each-for-getting-wrong-covid-19-test-before-returning-from-u-s-1.5560090 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/canadian-travellers-fined-5-700-each-f...
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      Which governments have handled the pandemic well? To call it a ‘shit show’ is a huge understatement.
HarryHirsch 5y ago
The observation from Sturgis is different: cases were low and went up again after the circus had come to town. That shows that travel spreads new variants.
fulafel 5y ago
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations says "Only 1.6% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose" and there are some quite populous countries in the graph that show low vaccination rates.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  and where are the people in those low income countries going that doesnt already have covid spreading domestically? thats the point theyre making, were well past the point of an errant passenger introducing the virus to another country.
  - fulafel 5y ago
    Recommendations and restrictions to limit travel before good vaccination coverage aim to reduce serious illness from the virus while vaccination progresses, no? Countries are not homogenous, especially travel from high incidence areas can worsen the situation in better off areas.
- nradov 5y ago
  Vaccination is very effective at preventing deaths, but vaccinated people can still carry and spread the virus.
mns 5y ago
They always were and for me they seem like they were put in place by people that never travel like the “regular folk”. I traveled between two EU Schengen countries this year in April. Before this you would get off the plane, get your luggage if you have one and get out, really fast. Now, we were around 400 people from 3 planes all in one small non ventilated hall of the airport , waiting to get our tests checked, QR codes scanned and temperature checked. People were rubbing next to each other, loose masks, masks on chins, masks under the nose, people coughing and so on. Because there were so many people, they were randomly checking the test for some. In total we waited over an hour there. How did that make any sense in the current context, I don’t know.
0xbadcafebee 5y ago
Except New Zealand. More severe travel restrictions earlier (in combination with countries like the US doing what they were supposed to do) could have saved a lot of lives. It's not too late to save a few more.
lostlogin 5y ago
We have recently locked down in New Zealand and the virus is in the community. We were an exception to your statement, we are not anymore but are trying to get back there.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  May I ask why? Won't you have to isolate forever at this point? Covid can not be eradicated. Animals carry it. For example, 33% of White Tail Deer (n-481) in the USA sampled have ben found to have antibodies for it. It's assumed cats and dogs can carry and spread it. This isn't like polio or smallpox - this would be like trying to have 0 cases of the flu, forever. The best you can do is get vaccinated to at least take some pressure off the hospital system if/when you get infected. Somehow we all went from "flatten the curve" to "no one can ever get sick again".
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    > Covid can not be eradicated. We have done it several times and will hopefully do it again. We have had a pretty smooth time as a whole, with relatively little inconvenience - this and the previous month long lockdown excluded. However as you say, what’s the point? We are not vaccinated widely enough to prevent carnage. We need way more people vaccinated as our hospital system is under strain already. Adding Covid will be catastrophic, and we need to reduce that risk. New Zealand is the gateway to various pacific islands and we provide their healthcare. If Covid rips through them that’s also on us.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Why hasn't New Zealand shown any interest in developing or widely deploying vaccines? I wouldn't take Kiwis for being vaccine skeptics. Seems like they just wanted to lock down and pretend it wasn't happening rather than finding a solution. Bizarre strategy.
      - lostlogin 5y ago
        We have been vaccinating, and the current rate is very higher (500k in a population of 5 million in the last week). We also supply many small pacific islands and were also happy to delay so that supply could go to places with an acute need first (ie places that actually have Covid). We will be in line with the rest of the developed world very soon. > Bizarre strategy Eradication? It’s worked pretty well and the economy and population are in good shape relative to other strategies employed. Given we are close to Covid free (and aim to be again) and we are vaccinating fast, what strategy would you advocate?
Daishiman 5y ago
Speak for yourself. In Argentina the ban on foreign tourists has delayed the arrival of the Delta variant by several months, drastically increasing the rate of vaccination.
- pharmakom 5y ago
  Indeed. It’s too late now, but reducing international travel as delta appeared would have saved thousands of lives in the uk.
- dang 5y ago
  Your account has mostly been posting flamewar comments. If you keep that up, we're going to have to ban you—it's not at all what this site is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.
systemvoltage 5y ago
The virus has exasperated USA and EU nationalism, which is sad because that’s exactly what adversarial powers want. Disintegration of the ‘west’. I’m still an optimist, I can try to be the chance in the world.
- freemint 5y ago
  "EU nationalism" i never saw these words this close together.

Agreed. Everyone flying in and out is vetted and tested. That's more than anyone can say for their local supermarket. Borders are some of the most "covid-secure" places in the world. This shit is just politics at this point.

nostromo 5y ago
It's security theater, but in response to public health instead of terrorism concerns.
vladvasiliu 5y ago
> This shit is just politics at this point. I think it has been for a while. I don't remember the exact date, but around the end of 2020 / beginning 2021 at one point travel between France and the UK was allowed. Then suddenly, UK deemed France as too dangerous or something, which could be justified since cases in France were rising rapidly, whereas in Britain they were relatively stable. The next day, France halted travel from the UK "in retaliation". It seems to me that the level of danger of a country isn't particularly related to how that country's politicians view your own, but what do I know?
- nradov 5y ago
  Are migrants still traveling from France to the UK by stowing away on commercial trucks? (And to be clear I'm not trying to make a political point about migration, just curious about the current state of border security.) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35807136 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35807136
- swiley 5y ago
  Looking back it’s been that since April last year.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> Everyone flying in and out is vetted and tested. A PCR test before your flight isn't a very good insurance policy. You can easily get infected between the time you take the test and the time you fly. And of course you can be infected in transit. Vaccination? Doesn't mean as much anymore thanks to Delta. Proof: 30% of all new COVID cases in Los Angeles are in fully vaccinated individuals. But yeah, at least as far as the US and EU are concerned, this is politics. Both places are nasty petri dishes at this point.
RangerScience 5y ago
Found out that a friend-of-a-friend tested positive while in another country (Costa Rica, I think?) so they got a fake negative test so they could return to the US and "recover at home".
- nradov 5y ago
  The last time I travelled back to the US it was sufficient to show a PDF of a rapid antigen test from 3 days ago on my smartphone. Those are trivial to fake, there's no security on the files at all. (I don't encourage anyone to do that.)
- effingwewt 5y ago
  Was walking through some apartments yesterday and a lady in a moomoo was talking with her neighbor. Their dogs were playing, they were just out enjoying the day. I hear moomoo lady say she in on forced at-home quarantine for covid. The poor neighbor. I saw the horror on her face as she scooped up her dog and ran away. I was so grateful for my mask, and I've had covid and am vaccinated. Moomoo lady had no mask, no gloves, couldn't have been any closer to her neighbor. She knew she was sick, just could not have cared less. It's truly mind boggling some care absolutely nothing for others. Maybe it's always been this way and covid just made it all visible.
klipt 5y ago
The tests are not perfect. Multiply their false negative rate, by the rate of infection in the country the traveler is from, and that is the rate of infection among people you're letting into the country. This is how variants like Delta can spread globally.
908B64B197 5y ago
> This shit is just politics at this point. Always has been.
8note 5y ago
Somehow, delta got from India to the US, so clearly those settings and testings aren't sufficient
qnsi 5y ago
but I think it's politics from US side. Vaccinated people from EU can't go to US. Meanwhile vaccinated people will still be able to come to EU from USA.
dep_b 5y ago
Yep. We've got double jabbed relatives from Argentina that are barred from travel because Sputnik V isn't approved. Yet it's one of the most effective vaccines out there.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago

It's definitely the exception and not the rule, but Taiwan is a counterexample. We've had less than 16,000 total cases here, most of which stemmed from an outbreak in May that is now under control. The border is basically only open to citizens and residents, and everybody has to quarantine for 14 days at an approved quarantine hotel or government facility regardless of vaccination status. PCR test no earlier than 3 days before your flight, PCR test upon arrival, rapid test 10 days into quarantine, and PCR test right before your quarantine ends. Inconvenient? Yes. Expensive? Yes. But you can't argue with the results. Life is pretty damn good here and at least for the time being, Delta has not found its way into the community.

xbmcuser 5y ago
It was the same in Singapore large gatherings are restricted where as anyone coming into Singapore has to stay in quarantine for 2 weeks. The current local spread actually got through because of seafood delivery from a neighbouring country where it is assumed dock workers got it from the fisherman and spread it to the fishmongers and into the community. We have reached 80% vaccination for general population and 90% for 12+ because of that despite the spread the deaths are low. The situation would be a lot worse without vaccination and if a countries population is reticent about vaccination why the fuck should another country that is actually willing to vaccinate ignore the sacrifices of its own population.
lostlogin 5y ago
New Zealander here, living under similar rules. > Inconvenient? Yes. Expensive? Yes. But you can't argue with the results. Life is pretty damn good here and at least for the time being, Delta has not found its way into the community. Pretty much identical, but with the huge exception of a current Delta outbreak in the community. The next week will be the making or breaking of our chosen strategy.

soared 5y ago

Not really. Look at cases and deaths state by state in the us and there is huge disparity. Same with country by country. Travel restrictions slow spread which increase the number of vaccinated people.

octonion 5y ago

Americans have seemingly no interest in taking Delta seriously. Worse, many state governments are actively trying to make it as bad as possibly.

tonfa 5y ago

> Travel restrictions anywhere are ridiculous at this point. The virus is everywhere already. It can increase the spread though, here (CH) a large fraction of local case are tied to people coming back from holidays. Mandatory quarantine would likely help somewhat.

lostlogin 5y ago
> Mandatory quarantine would likely help somewhat. It helps a lot. However even strict quarantine leaks, and New Zealand has shutdown to try eradicate its current outbreak. Delta is incredibly transmissible and resistant to controls.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

csomar 5y ago

It's being used as a tool in a political war. You'd have to have your hand in the sand not to see it.

megablast 5y ago

There’s new variant popping up all the time. Your statement is pure ignorance.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
whycombagator 5y ago
Yes and it never fails to propagate world wide despite the restrictions. Given that, what is your issue with the USA allowing vaccinated travellers, who are tested before boarding a flight, from entering the country?
- ericb 5y ago
  If the new strain is more deadly, or more contagious, it is better to delay the arrival and have the explosion of cases come later--science will typically have more information and better treatments.
- adventured 5y ago
  Let's consider for a moment that millions of illegal immigrants - very few of which have been vaccinated or tested before arriving in the US - have crossed the US southern border in the past year and the Biden Admin has shown zero interest in stopping that disaster. There is no scenario where that doesn't prove the US blockading itself from inbound travel (eg from Europe) is purely a con, health security theater. As an American it's embarrasing to watch the level of stupidity the US Government is putting on display in its Covid response.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  > Given that, what is your issue with the USA allowing vaccinated travellers... 30% of all new COVID cases in Los Angeles are in fully vaccinated individuals. Israel, one of the most highly vaccinated countries in the world, is reporting record new cases. The vaccines are effective at reducing the risk of severe illness and death, but the data is now very clear that they do not prevent people from becoming infected and infecting others. If the US wants to reduce the risk that it will be among the first in line to get every new variant, it would need to embrace the only approach that has proven effective: limit arrivals and force arrivals to quarantine for a sufficient amount of time. Of course, you could argue that the cost of this exceeds the benefits. But either way, it's time to let go of the idea that people who are vaccinated are not at risk of catching and spreading the virus. It's just not the case.

nickff 5y ago

These travel restrictions are just a way of scapegoating foreigners; anti-foreign bias is very strong.

munk-a 5y ago
I haven't seen the travel restrictions converted into xenophobia that much where I am. I tend to consume a spectrum of Canadian media and a few of the late night shows from the US - but the only thing I've noticed is more negativity in reporting in Canada about American handling.
- nickff 5y ago
  Canada's government should win an award for incoherence. They called the USA racist for banning flights from China, then proceeded to ban flights from China one week later. Canada subsequently proceeded to ban non-essential trips to/from the USA by road, but only partially by air when the USA had a higher infection rate. Then, even after Canada achieved the same infection rate as border states, the government kept the travel ban, to no apparent gain. There are even more gems if you look for them: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/canadian-travellers-fined-5-700-each-for-getting-wrong-covid-19-test-before-returning-from-u-s-1.5560090 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/canadian-travellers-fined-5-700-each-f...
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    Which governments have handled the pandemic well? To call it a ‘shit show’ is a huge understatement.

HarryHirsch 5y ago

The observation from Sturgis is different: cases were low and went up again after the circus had come to town. That shows that travel spreads new variants.

fulafel 5y ago

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations says "Only 1.6% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose" and there are some quite populous countries in the graph that show low vaccination rates.

thatguy0900 5y ago
and where are the people in those low income countries going that doesnt already have covid spreading domestically? thats the point theyre making, were well past the point of an errant passenger introducing the virus to another country.
- fulafel 5y ago
  Recommendations and restrictions to limit travel before good vaccination coverage aim to reduce serious illness from the virus while vaccination progresses, no? Countries are not homogenous, especially travel from high incidence areas can worsen the situation in better off areas.
nradov 5y ago
Vaccination is very effective at preventing deaths, but vaccinated people can still carry and spread the virus.

mns 5y ago

They always were and for me they seem like they were put in place by people that never travel like the “regular folk”. I traveled between two EU Schengen countries this year in April. Before this you would get off the plane, get your luggage if you have one and get out, really fast. Now, we were around 400 people from 3 planes all in one small non ventilated hall of the airport , waiting to get our tests checked, QR codes scanned and temperature checked. People were rubbing next to each other, loose masks, masks on chins, masks under the nose, people coughing and so on. Because there were so many people, they were randomly checking the test for some. In total we waited over an hour there. How did that make any sense in the current context, I don’t know.

0xbadcafebee 5y ago

Except New Zealand. More severe travel restrictions earlier (in combination with countries like the US doing what they were supposed to do) could have saved a lot of lives. It's not too late to save a few more.

lostlogin 5y ago

We have recently locked down in New Zealand and the virus is in the community. We were an exception to your statement, we are not anymore but are trying to get back there.

nemo44x 5y ago
May I ask why? Won't you have to isolate forever at this point? Covid can not be eradicated. Animals carry it. For example, 33% of White Tail Deer (n-481) in the USA sampled have ben found to have antibodies for it. It's assumed cats and dogs can carry and spread it. This isn't like polio or smallpox - this would be like trying to have 0 cases of the flu, forever. The best you can do is get vaccinated to at least take some pressure off the hospital system if/when you get infected. Somehow we all went from "flatten the curve" to "no one can ever get sick again".
- lostlogin 5y ago
  > Covid can not be eradicated. We have done it several times and will hopefully do it again. We have had a pretty smooth time as a whole, with relatively little inconvenience - this and the previous month long lockdown excluded. However as you say, what’s the point? We are not vaccinated widely enough to prevent carnage. We need way more people vaccinated as our hospital system is under strain already. Adding Covid will be catastrophic, and we need to reduce that risk. New Zealand is the gateway to various pacific islands and we provide their healthcare. If Covid rips through them that’s also on us.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Why hasn't New Zealand shown any interest in developing or widely deploying vaccines? I wouldn't take Kiwis for being vaccine skeptics. Seems like they just wanted to lock down and pretend it wasn't happening rather than finding a solution. Bizarre strategy.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      We have been vaccinating, and the current rate is very higher (500k in a population of 5 million in the last week). We also supply many small pacific islands and were also happy to delay so that supply could go to places with an acute need first (ie places that actually have Covid). We will be in line with the rest of the developed world very soon. > Bizarre strategy Eradication? It’s worked pretty well and the economy and population are in good shape relative to other strategies employed. Given we are close to Covid free (and aim to be again) and we are vaccinating fast, what strategy would you advocate?

Daishiman 5y ago

Speak for yourself. In Argentina the ban on foreign tourists has delayed the arrival of the Delta variant by several months, drastically increasing the rate of vaccination.

pharmakom 5y ago
Indeed. It’s too late now, but reducing international travel as delta appeared would have saved thousands of lives in the uk.
dang 5y ago
Your account has mostly been posting flamewar comments. If you keep that up, we're going to have to ban you—it's not at all what this site is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.

systemvoltage 5y ago

The virus has exasperated USA and EU nationalism, which is sad because that’s exactly what adversarial powers want. Disintegration of the ‘west’. I’m still an optimist, I can try to be the chance in the world.

freemint 5y ago
"EU nationalism" i never saw these words this close together.