5 ms·

Nobody talks about the harder truth: even with its exclusionary housing policies, California is increasingly not capable of supporting the population it has. T

Nobody talks about the harder truth: even with its exclusionary housing policies, California is increasingly not capable of supporting the population it has. The 2021 fires and worsening drought conditions are just a taste of things to come.

epistasis 5y ago
California is extremely capable of supporting its current population, and easily 50% more. The only thing stopping this is proper distribution of land and water. We let wealthy people hoard land and water (Prop 13 and our land rights system), rather than allocating them based on market systems or even more fair systems. We have feudalism baked too deeply into our laws.
- mc32 5y ago
  California was a semi desert before we built the canals and aqueducts -which is why it was a backwater with few people till that was done and its fertile soil was able to sustain life. People (city dwellers) came _after_ the farmers. So, it might be in need of an update, but I think you're mischaracterizing how this happened.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Giving people rights to water simply because they took it from the Spanish first is the definition of feudal. We don't allocate resources logically or helpfully, we give people rights because their ancestors got their first, and it is preposterous economically and morally.
    - mc32 5y ago
      Extensive canals and water rights and riparian water rights were not developed till the demand by the Gold Rush, and then after its admission into the Union additional laws and provisions were passed and levees and canals built, and then in the early 1900s water from the Colorado was diverted into Calif. then much later aqueducts to channel water into semi-desert cities. The Spanish may have had a few little channels here and there (for their missions along the el camino), but it wasn't till the Gold Rush people built large elaborate systems for water distribution (for their claims). Then appropriative and riparian rights attracted many farmers into fertile lands. Does it deserve a revisit, sure. It will be fraught and messy, but sure.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    This really depends on where in California you are looking. SoCal? Sure, desert. But the San Joaquin valley was full of freshwater lakes and marshes before the invaders started using it for farming. https://eccentricculinary.com/californias-vanishing-lakes-and-the-hunger-of-the-mines/ https://eccentricculinary.com/californias-vanishing-lakes-an...
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  Even if, for argument's sake, one accepts your claim, it's quite clear that the policies are not going to change. I'm a native Californian who left and now lives overseas, and every visit back has not only provided a stark demonstration of California's decline, but also taught me that many Californians refuse to believe their lying eyes. I have friends and family who in the past 5 years have lost homes to fire, seen their wells run dry, had to flee from toxic wildfire air, etc. and yet all but one of them has stayed. It's insanity in my humble opinion and I think if more Californians had an opportunity to spend some time away from the state, more of them would realize that the state is in great peril. It literally and figuratively is a case of the frog in boiling water.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Things are changing, as the entrenched interests die from old age. Last year, Prop 15 nearly eliminated the Prop 13 for commercial properties. That this was even within 10% points of passing is such a huge change as to be unthinkable. 15 years ago I would rant about Prop 13 and get nothing but hate from others for my position. These days I'm as likely to find somebody ranting about the evils of Prop 13 as I am to initiate the rants. And the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person. We have a huge problem with Boomers and their heirs, but immigration is rapidly changing eh demographics to allow for more sound governance.
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      Hope springs eternal in California, but unfortunately water does not.
      - epistasis 5y ago
        Lol, I love the slogan, and it may be true. But I will go down fighting this fight, and in my estimation it is getting easier to fight, even if it's not yet clear who will win. I would not blame anyone for leaving, given the current insanity of state and local politics, but I also welcome the growing crowd of politically active young people that have far more skin in the game than the aged "got mine, forget you crowd. So if you ever do return, get in touch with local political orgs and you will be making a positive difference.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Land and water is mostly hoarded by farmers. The wealthy only hoard a bit of land in urban areas.
- Supermancho 5y ago
  > California is extremely capable of supporting its current population, and easily 50% more. So is the Moon, with enough effort and cost, but that's not the point.
  - MarkSweep 5y ago
    In way you have a point: from an airplane it is easy to see that the Bay Area and LA are as flat and uniform as the moon. Real cities have variations in building density that reflect the demand for different areas.

epistasis 5y ago

California is extremely capable of supporting its current population, and easily 50% more. The only thing stopping this is proper distribution of land and water. We let wealthy people hoard land and water (Prop 13 and our land rights system), rather than allocating them based on market systems or even more fair systems. We have feudalism baked too deeply into our laws.

mc32 5y ago
California was a semi desert before we built the canals and aqueducts -which is why it was a backwater with few people till that was done and its fertile soil was able to sustain life. People (city dwellers) came _after_ the farmers. So, it might be in need of an update, but I think you're mischaracterizing how this happened.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Giving people rights to water simply because they took it from the Spanish first is the definition of feudal. We don't allocate resources logically or helpfully, we give people rights because their ancestors got their first, and it is preposterous economically and morally.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Extensive canals and water rights and riparian water rights were not developed till the demand by the Gold Rush, and then after its admission into the Union additional laws and provisions were passed and levees and canals built, and then in the early 1900s water from the Colorado was diverted into Calif. then much later aqueducts to channel water into semi-desert cities. The Spanish may have had a few little channels here and there (for their missions along the el camino), but it wasn't till the Gold Rush people built large elaborate systems for water distribution (for their claims). Then appropriative and riparian rights attracted many farmers into fertile lands. Does it deserve a revisit, sure. It will be fraught and messy, but sure.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  This really depends on where in California you are looking. SoCal? Sure, desert. But the San Joaquin valley was full of freshwater lakes and marshes before the invaders started using it for farming. https://eccentricculinary.com/californias-vanishing-lakes-and-the-hunger-of-the-mines/ https://eccentricculinary.com/californias-vanishing-lakes-an...
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
Even if, for argument's sake, one accepts your claim, it's quite clear that the policies are not going to change. I'm a native Californian who left and now lives overseas, and every visit back has not only provided a stark demonstration of California's decline, but also taught me that many Californians refuse to believe their lying eyes. I have friends and family who in the past 5 years have lost homes to fire, seen their wells run dry, had to flee from toxic wildfire air, etc. and yet all but one of them has stayed. It's insanity in my humble opinion and I think if more Californians had an opportunity to spend some time away from the state, more of them would realize that the state is in great peril. It literally and figuratively is a case of the frog in boiling water.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Things are changing, as the entrenched interests die from old age. Last year, Prop 15 nearly eliminated the Prop 13 for commercial properties. That this was even within 10% points of passing is such a huge change as to be unthinkable. 15 years ago I would rant about Prop 13 and get nothing but hate from others for my position. These days I'm as likely to find somebody ranting about the evils of Prop 13 as I am to initiate the rants. And the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person. We have a huge problem with Boomers and their heirs, but immigration is rapidly changing eh demographics to allow for more sound governance.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    Hope springs eternal in California, but unfortunately water does not.
    - epistasis 5y ago
      Lol, I love the slogan, and it may be true. But I will go down fighting this fight, and in my estimation it is getting easier to fight, even if it's not yet clear who will win. I would not blame anyone for leaving, given the current insanity of state and local politics, but I also welcome the growing crowd of politically active young people that have far more skin in the game than the aged "got mine, forget you crowd. So if you ever do return, get in touch with local political orgs and you will be making a positive difference.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Land and water is mostly hoarded by farmers. The wealthy only hoard a bit of land in urban areas.
Supermancho 5y ago
> California is extremely capable of supporting its current population, and easily 50% more. So is the Moon, with enough effort and cost, but that's not the point.
- MarkSweep 5y ago
  In way you have a point: from an airplane it is easy to see that the Bay Area and LA are as flat and uniform as the moon. Real cities have variations in building density that reflect the demand for different areas.