3 ms·

That's simply not what the research has found. Edit: Allow me to clarify - the research everyone is citing that says masking is effective in teachers and ineff

That's simply not what the research has found. Edit: Allow me to clarify - the research everyone is citing that says masking is effective in teachers and ineffective in students (the 37% number) predates both the delta variant and widespread infection in Southern states. Further, masking is understood etiologically as a prevention method and has been used successfully in other outbreaks and in other countries. Clinicians and policy makers as a rule work with incomplete data in an emerging situation, so unequivocally stating that masking kids in schools doesn't help is a very bad misrepresentation of both the data/research and the implications to policy.

only_as_i_fall 5y ago
Can you provide a source? My understanding was that masks were primarily effective at preventing high viral load droplets from spreading the virus during short interactions. I don't have any source to prove that to be the case because data on the effectiveness of masks seems frustratingly sparse.
- gzer0 5y ago
  When a novel situation presents itself, sometimes we do not have all of data we would like and clinicians have to make judgement calls to the best of their knowledge. We may not have trials or studies (these things take time) to back a very certain and/or specific claim such as "do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19?" What we do have, is fundamental knowledge and common sense and so typically, in a clinical setting we ask these questions when any new situation arises (as it happens often in medicine): - Does this reccomendation cause more harm than good? - is there even a slight chance that this clinical decision would increase the percentage chance of survival? - is it worth the inconvenience it could cause? This is called Clinical Reasoning. Thinking critically and clinically is a core tenet of the field.
  - only_as_i_fall 5y ago
    I don't disagree with anything you said, and I'm certainlynot an anti-masker, but was skeptical of the parent claim which seems to be "Research shoes masks are still effective even when spending the whole day in the same room" I'm not aware of any evidence that this is the case and I worry that people are putting too much stake in masks when really social distancing is much more effective than masks ever will be.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- AdamN 5y ago
  Keep in mind the initial dose is highly relevant to the impact of the virus in your body. There's a big difference between getting a single virus, enough to cause an infection, and enough to be highly overwhelmed before your immune system kicks in.
  - nradov 5y ago
    There is no real scientific evidence that disease severity is correlated with initial viral dose. It's a plausible hypothesis but so far due to ethical concerns no one has done the human challenge trials that would be necessary to settle that issue.
    - AdamN 5y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8045461/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8045461/ This is a common attribute of infections and is really more of a math issue than anything SARS-specific. The bigger the initial dose, the sooner it will get to the impact stage, and the less prepared your immune system will be at that time.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Got a few here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7 It does note that non-medical (e.g. cloth) masks may be less effective, but whether those are used a lot seems to depend on environment (nobody seems to use them here). Edit: One more for cloth masks https://www.nature.com/articles/jes201642 https://www.nature.com/articles/jes201642
AndrewBissell 5y ago
Here's an NPR article discussing a CDC study which found no statistically significant impact from kids wearing masks in school: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-dropping-mask-requirements-but-new-cdc-study-suggests-they-shouldnt https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-droppin... Key paragraph: Between Nov. 16 and Dec. 11, researchers found that infection rates were 37% lower in schools where teachers and staff members were required to wear masks. The difference between schools that did and did not require students to wear masks was not statistically significant. A good recent article in NY Mag also discussing this issue, including the fact that the World Health Organization recommends against masking kids under six: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... Many countries in Europe have decided against masking for any students in K-12 schools because it is unclear that the harms outweigh the benefits. The idea there is some "simple" scientific & research consensus on this is wrong.
Aeolun 5y ago
Minimal <> doesn’t help Is it worth the cost? That’s a different question. I’m not really opposed to masks in a classroom as a mitigation method, but if people believe it will significantly alter the trajectory of the infections I have a bridge to sell them.

only_as_i_fall 5y ago

Can you provide a source? My understanding was that masks were primarily effective at preventing high viral load droplets from spreading the virus during short interactions. I don't have any source to prove that to be the case because data on the effectiveness of masks seems frustratingly sparse.

gzer0 5y ago
When a novel situation presents itself, sometimes we do not have all of data we would like and clinicians have to make judgement calls to the best of their knowledge. We may not have trials or studies (these things take time) to back a very certain and/or specific claim such as "do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19?" What we do have, is fundamental knowledge and common sense and so typically, in a clinical setting we ask these questions when any new situation arises (as it happens often in medicine): - Does this reccomendation cause more harm than good? - is there even a slight chance that this clinical decision would increase the percentage chance of survival? - is it worth the inconvenience it could cause? This is called Clinical Reasoning. Thinking critically and clinically is a core tenet of the field.
- only_as_i_fall 5y ago
  I don't disagree with anything you said, and I'm certainlynot an anti-masker, but was skeptical of the parent claim which seems to be "Research shoes masks are still effective even when spending the whole day in the same room" I'm not aware of any evidence that this is the case and I worry that people are putting too much stake in masks when really social distancing is much more effective than masks ever will be.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AdamN 5y ago
Keep in mind the initial dose is highly relevant to the impact of the virus in your body. There's a big difference between getting a single virus, enough to cause an infection, and enough to be highly overwhelmed before your immune system kicks in.
- nradov 5y ago
  There is no real scientific evidence that disease severity is correlated with initial viral dose. It's a plausible hypothesis but so far due to ethical concerns no one has done the human challenge trials that would be necessary to settle that issue.
  - AdamN 5y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8045461/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8045461/ This is a common attribute of infections and is really more of a math issue than anything SARS-specific. The bigger the initial dose, the sooner it will get to the impact stage, and the less prepared your immune system will be at that time.
Aeolun 5y ago
Got a few here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7 It does note that non-medical (e.g. cloth) masks may be less effective, but whether those are used a lot seems to depend on environment (nobody seems to use them here). Edit: One more for cloth masks https://www.nature.com/articles/jes201642 https://www.nature.com/articles/jes201642

AndrewBissell 5y ago

Here's an NPR article discussing a CDC study which found no statistically significant impact from kids wearing masks in school: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-dropping-mask-requirements-but-new-cdc-study-suggests-they-shouldnt https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999106426/schools-are-droppin... Key paragraph: Between Nov. 16 and Dec. 11, researchers found that infection rates were 37% lower in schools where teachers and staff members were required to wear masks. The difference between schools that did and did not require students to wear masks was not statistically significant. A good recent article in NY Mag also discussing this issue, including the fact that the World Health Organization recommends against masking kids under six: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... Many countries in Europe have decided against masking for any students in K-12 schools because it is unclear that the harms outweigh the benefits. The idea there is some "simple" scientific & research consensus on this is wrong.

Aeolun 5y ago

Minimal <> doesn’t help Is it worth the cost? That’s a different question. I’m not really opposed to masks in a classroom as a mitigation method, but if people believe it will significantly alter the trajectory of the infections I have a bridge to sell them.