17 ms·

Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

119 points by aww_dang 5y ago

disabled 5y ago
I would say that there are places that are like the Falkland Island in Croatia.
- sbacic 5y ago
  As another Croatian, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'd like other people to experience the breathtaking beauty of my country. On the other hand, considering all the negative externalities and the rampant devastation that comes with our brand of tourism I'm not sure I want any more tourists coming. I especially don't want tourists buying holiday homes here.
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    Yeah, Croatia is already turning into a country-sized tourist trap. It is really a shame considering how beautiful the area is.
    - saiya-jin 5y ago
      It was turning into tourist trap 20 years ago, the last time I visited. I think places like Italy or Greece offer more for same money (or even less). For balkan experience, Montenegro is a fine less spoiled option (depends on location obviously).
      - moonchrome 5y ago
        When was the last time you've been to Montenegro ? If you want to talk about wild overdevelopment there is no competition there. Greece is unique in it's own way - but it's the OG tourist trap in the area. Coast of Italy isn't really comparable on the Adriatc side (haven't been to Sicily so can't really compare)
      - ceilingcorner 5y ago
        The inland towns and more isolated islands are still quite local. And Montenegro is 100x more overdeveloped and touristy. I’m not sure where exactly you are referring to.
      - input_sh 5y ago
        If it's the cheap prices you're after, Albania is the answer. More specifically, anything south of Tirana. Communicating with locals over 30 is a bit challenging unless you know Albanian or Italian (I know, I was surprised too), but it's worth it for the pretty, not overcrowded beaches.
      - asdff 5y ago
        Croatia is significantly cheaper than Italy or Greece. Every meal you eat will be under $10 USD, good seafood too. The booze is stupidly cheap, bottled beer is like half the price of bottled water iirc and everyone was drinking openly everywhere on the street at all hours. Accommodations at excellent hotels were cheap. Getting around the country was cheap (we took a bus and stopped along dozens of cities along the coast). The most expensive part is airfare, but after that, it's cheaper than probably most of europe and certainly any city in the U.S. in terms of having a vacation. When I visited there were few Americans, but so so many Australians I couldn't understand it. I guess they know about it there moreso than the US.
    - phillc73 5y ago
      There are still places on the Croatian Adriatic which aren’t over run with tourists. Of course the popular areas are extremely crowded. There are still other beautiful islands which are not so busy. I’m writing this from a small 20 tent only campsite on a Croatian island. Access is only by ferry. Facilities are limited (no large supermarkets for example). It’s our third summer here and while there have been some changes, it is very slow. Taking a boat out for a day or two also allows for exploration of other, more remote islands. Some bays still aren’t over crowded with boats anchoring for the day. Also, later in August and early in the week are quieter times. Yesterday, I was the only person swimming at a nice sandy beach at 14:00.
      - randomopining 5y ago
        Wifi or 3/4g?
        phillc73 5y ago
        LTE mobile data
        randomopining 5y ago
        Awesome. I've been to Croatia twice. Which area? The islands south of Istrian peninsula? They seem pretty chill.
        phillc73 5y ago
        Yes those islands, but some of them like Krk and Rab are very, very touristy. Other places which require a ferry to reach, like Cres for example, not so bad.
  - moonchrome 5y ago
    Too late - I grew up going to stay with my grandparents at Pag a lot during 90s (during the war and after) - I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. Forward to early 2000s and I remember car jams 4km long for some random low-key event in a fishing village (ribarske večeri). These days it's not worth going to any tourist areas during season anymore, everything is overcrowded and the infrastructure isn't built to support that much people (roads, parking, water supply/sewage treatment, restaurants). Late spring and early autumn are still gorgeous. If you rent a boat it can be a bit better, but even then it's a hassle with marinas, etc. Just avoid the peak months IMO.
    - sbacic 5y ago
      > I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. We did this as well. There were a lot less cars and a lot more children back then. Now it's the opposite. I think that at some point we'll wake up to the cultural and environmental devastation we've wrought and do something about it. Hopefully it won't be too late by then.
  - kebman 5y ago
    I first discovered Croatia when it was called Yugoslavia. Yes, it's an extremely beautiful country. But the area also has systemic problems that to me seems to be political in nature. Well, perhaps not all. Some of it is also simply economic. For good or bad, that leads to cheap prices on everything, which is the real reason so many people come, despite its charm. I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. And where there's income, it's also worth investing in infrastructure.
    - sbacic 5y ago
      > I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. I very much doubt it - one of the reasons we are in this mess is some 80+ years of human capital devastation - we have nowhere to draw experts or leaders from anymore.
      - kebman 5y ago
        Hm, that's very sad to hear... What would you do about it?
        jokethrowaway 5y ago
        Remove inefficient governments, privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess and attract foreign capital through zero taxation and lack of regulations. You need rich foreign expats, tired of paying 50% of their salaries in exchange for run down cities and homelessness, creating value in the country. If tourism is your only strategy you won't go far.
        mschuster91 5y ago
        > privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess Half-Croat here. What you propose would destroy what is left of the country. Public services are already shoddy as it is because Croatia doesn't have much economy outside of tourism, agriculture and a bit of heavy industry. The best and young minds have been leaving the country for well over half a century.
  - higeorge13 5y ago
    I think the whole Med has become like this. Travel is so mainstream nowadays (at least before covid), same with people buying properties in foreign countries.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      Yeah I think internet + Airbnb really opened some spots up. Like in the 90s, how did you find new spots? Mostly word of mouth on the ground I would assume. Less/no remote workers constantly traveling and sharing their opinions, etc.
      - asdff 5y ago
        In the 90s you went to a travel agent who arranged your airfare, lodging, even cab fare in between. You wouldn't find like an airbnb setup so easily, but Croatia is absolutely full of hotels even to this day. Honestly even today its easier to just pay someone to do that for you than fuddle with half a dozen websites to do the same on your own time.
  - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
    Thanks to tourism your country was exposed to Western Europe and people speak English. If you think things are bad now look at Serbia: sold to China because nobody in the EU cares.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      What's it like in Serbia, do Chinese oligarchs own everything?
      - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
        The Chinese are buying up Serbia's industry and mining. They provide jobs and money but care nothing for the environment.
        randomopining 5y ago
        Yeah it seems like that in that area. I've seen similar in Hungary. They are just using peoples' grievances with US and EU as an opening to get in and take economic control slowly.
  - quadrifoliate 5y ago
    I visit Europe about once a year, and am low key avoiding visiting most of the former Yugoslavia because of this. I agree that having a rush of tourists in a country not accustomed to them can cause problems for both the tourists and the locals that resent the sudden influx.
    - moonchrome 5y ago
      I think you have a wrong impression - Croatia was a tourist destination during Yugoslavia. I think some places today still see less tourists then they did back then. Most of the coast has been living off tourism for at least half a century at this point. Also English level is pretty good among younger population, far better than say Spain or Italy. While I complain about it being overcrowded during peak tourist season that's just me reminiscing about the time that I grew up which was during and shortly after the civil war (naturally not a lot of tourism back then and it took years to recover). Any popular tourist place in Europe I've been to has been similar, eg. Dubrovnik is super popular and overcrowded - but so is Venice for example (if not worse).
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Advertising it online isn’t going to keep it preserved for very long.
AlbertCory 5y ago
I had the misfortune to have my first visit to London during the Falklands War. I'd always wanted to visit Parliament during Question Time, which is usually easy because it's so boring. But this was when Margaret Thatcher was having her memorable confrontations with Labour over the war, and there was a long line to get in. Never saw it. But Wellington, NZ has an accurate copy of the House of Commons for its own Parliament, so at least I saw that.
- emmanueloga_ 5y ago
  907 were killed, 1,188 Argentine and 777 British injured or wounded ... but if it wasn't for the war, you could have seen the Parliament. Such misfortune.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't be a jerk on HN. Note this guideline: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html With a comment like the GP, it's actually the upvotes that cause the greater problem (unintentionally), because being at the top of a thread puts a spotlight on a post which brings out things that people otherwise wouldn't notice, or at least wouldn't attack them for.
    - AlbertCory 5y ago
      Thank you, dang. It was, indeed, a trivial personal anecdote, brought on the word "Falklands." People are more than welcome to downvote it if they don't want to see it. At the time I sent it, there was only one other comment on this post, and I didn't expect to see many more. And no, no apologies will be forthcoming.
  - chronolitus 5y ago
    In real life, would you also respond to a trivial personal anecdote with moral chastising? Does the discussion have to take a form of geopolitical virtue signalling anytimes it grazes a big 'bad' event like a war? Is it ok to talk about mundane things, even in the shadow of the colossal international storms that surround us, without having to make a performance of fighting their shadows at all times?
arcticbull 5y ago
Always been on my list to visit as a subject of Her Majesty, along with St. Helena, Ascension, Tristan da Cunha and Pitcairn.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Very unlikely you’re a ‘subject’ - that’s a very specific legal status designed for complex internationality edge cases which almost nobody uses any more.
  - ShroudedNight 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject Exploring this rabbit hole evoked vague memories of Canadians holding British passports until around the time my parents were born. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Canadian_nationality_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Canadian_nationalit...
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Huh. TIL I was born a British subject, but lost the status in 1987.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Yeah, haha, I'm a British and Canadian dual-national, so in the post-1983 world, I'm a British Citizen and a Commonwealth Citizen. I was using it as an archaic turn of phrase rather than referring to the specific status. You did lead me down an interesting rabbit hole!
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  I'd love to visit all of the British Overseas Territories at some point, although I doubt I'll cross all of them off my list as a few of them are effectively off-limits to civilians.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    That's why I left BIOT/Diego Garcia off the list haha - I've no interest in a mandatory visit to Gitmo shortly thereafter.
Santosh83 5y ago
If your occupied territory is far from the main seat of your remnant empire, you MUST send in as many troops as possible in the short term and then as many immigrants as possible in the long term, to consolidate your overseas hold by means of demographic claim. There is no great mystery here. What is interesting is how this behaviour from the Western nations is tacitly ignored but somehow China asserting its claim over HK or Taiwan becomes a matter for international outrage. The outrage would be more real if Britain handed over Falkland to Argentina and then they would have better moral authority to ask China to desist from expansionism.
- scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
  I don’t think these two things are the same. Taiwan or HK are/were large scale democratic societies, economic hubs, cultural centers etc. The Falklands are a couple of strategically located islands in the middle of nowhere.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    I think a closer analog to the Falklands is the European colonial powers and much of the Caribbean. The French and St. Martin/St. Barts, the Dutch and Sint Maarten/Aruba/Bonaire/Curacao - and of course the British Overseas Territories of Anguilla, Bermuda, the BVI, Montserrat and Turks and Caicos. The latter has interestingly tried to join Canada a few times. Not really located anywhere strategic.
    - KingOfCoders 5y ago
      I agree in principle, though some of these islands want to stay with France / the EU, in contrary to the Falklands it is the native people there that want to stay, not the (only) the colonialists.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Sounds a bit like Wallis and Futuna - the French have been open to, or even supportive of decolonization for decades now, but the Wallisians have no interest in leaving France [1] - perhaps they learned from the divergent stories of La Reunion and Mayotte as compared to the Comoro Islands? I believe La Reunion has the highest GDP per capita in all of Africa (confirmed, 27000USD, which is way, way higher than the nearest continental neighbor). The EU even paid to put up a giant ring highway around the island. [2] No such luck for residents of Grande Comore, who are among the poorest on the continent - $1400USD - among the poorest on earth. It's interesting, such far-flung territories with limited resources, limited space and limited connections seem to be positioned to benefit the most from the largesse of a parent nation. Especially with European powers eager to distance themselves from their colonial past and ready to give their dependent territories maximum latitutde. [1] https://theculturetrip.com/pacific/wallis-futuna/articles/french-or-polynesian-the-curious-case-of-wallis-and-futuna/ https://theculturetrip.com/pacific/wallis-futuna/articles/fr... [2] https://www.vinci-construction-projets.com/en/realisations/new-coastal-road/ https://www.vinci-construction-projets.com/en/realisations/n...
zingar 5y ago
"...(the only access to the islands) is to have a pre-arranged job contract with a company that has signed a form of bond taking responsibility for you" That sounds like all British immigration rules. My employer had to apply for my visa and had to pay all my healthcare contributions for a year up front before I could move for a job in London. If I lose my job I have a few weeks to find a new employer (who will have to be willing to pay for a visa transfer) or I have to leave the country. It's a bizarre system but it seems like this reporter doesn't know how normal it is. I doubt British people know how bizarre the policies that arose from their voting are either. (Likewise for Europe and the US)
- lmm 5y ago
  Is it bizarre? Sounds like similar rules to anywhere - no country wants to let in people who can't support themselves.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    It feels like double-counting to me: > pay all my healthcare contributions for a year up front Is fine by itself, at least assuming you then get a discount on the PAYE taxes that you’re essentially pre-paying here. > If I lose my job I have a few weeks to find a new employer (who will have to be willing to pay for a visa transfer) or I have to leave the country. Paying to transfer the visa seems a bit strange to me (though I’m conscious of my own naïveté), but otherwise this is also fine by itself. Both together? Not so much.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      > Paying to transfer the visa seems a bit strange to me There's a bureaucracy to support, so fees for everything they do.
      - MichaelZuo 5y ago
        Yes, imagine if the bureaucracy lost the visa paperwork and it was ‘free’. Paying for services rendered as described is certainly the standard expectation.
PostThisTooFast 5y ago
"So many?" I don't know anyone who's moved there. Why don't we ask Israel why they're "settling" land that isn't theirs?
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Don't go. My young friend went on contract for a year, doing fishery research. After a few months they said "We aren't going to pay you any more. You can't leave because the boat won't come back until {whenever}. And if you say anything, we won't give you the recommendation you need as a young researcher doing a PhD." She had to stay for months working for nothing. It's slavery, and they know it, and that's how it works. Don't go.
- aww_dang 5y ago
  Can you say who held the contract?
  - bbarnett 5y ago
    It would. And after their hold on her was over, she should have screamed to the hills. While I get the reluctance, at the same time, not yelling about it means others get burned. That's just plain wrong.
    - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
      Her professor counseled her against reporting. They needed the contact to get PhD students positions and recommendations. Reporting it online meant throwing up obstacles to herself for holding other academic positions. A PhD student is hostage against the system.
      - bbarnett 5y ago
        Her professor counceled her to let him trap others in the same situation?!? Fine professor. Sounds like she should wait until after she gets her phd, then scream. And, while leveling accusations at the professor too. He's as guilty as they are.
        bbarnett 5y ago
        You should council your friend to keep as much data, write everything down (keep a log book), keep backups of emails etc. Don't let time, let scum win.

119 points by aww_dang 5y ago

disabled 5y ago

I would say that there are places that are like the Falkland Island in Croatia.

sbacic 5y ago
As another Croatian, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'd like other people to experience the breathtaking beauty of my country. On the other hand, considering all the negative externalities and the rampant devastation that comes with our brand of tourism I'm not sure I want any more tourists coming. I especially don't want tourists buying holiday homes here.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Yeah, Croatia is already turning into a country-sized tourist trap. It is really a shame considering how beautiful the area is.
  - saiya-jin 5y ago
    It was turning into tourist trap 20 years ago, the last time I visited. I think places like Italy or Greece offer more for same money (or even less). For balkan experience, Montenegro is a fine less spoiled option (depends on location obviously).
    - moonchrome 5y ago
      When was the last time you've been to Montenegro ? If you want to talk about wild overdevelopment there is no competition there. Greece is unique in it's own way - but it's the OG tourist trap in the area. Coast of Italy isn't really comparable on the Adriatc side (haven't been to Sicily so can't really compare)
    - ceilingcorner 5y ago
      The inland towns and more isolated islands are still quite local. And Montenegro is 100x more overdeveloped and touristy. I’m not sure where exactly you are referring to.
    - input_sh 5y ago
      If it's the cheap prices you're after, Albania is the answer. More specifically, anything south of Tirana. Communicating with locals over 30 is a bit challenging unless you know Albanian or Italian (I know, I was surprised too), but it's worth it for the pretty, not overcrowded beaches.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Croatia is significantly cheaper than Italy or Greece. Every meal you eat will be under $10 USD, good seafood too. The booze is stupidly cheap, bottled beer is like half the price of bottled water iirc and everyone was drinking openly everywhere on the street at all hours. Accommodations at excellent hotels were cheap. Getting around the country was cheap (we took a bus and stopped along dozens of cities along the coast). The most expensive part is airfare, but after that, it's cheaper than probably most of europe and certainly any city in the U.S. in terms of having a vacation. When I visited there were few Americans, but so so many Australians I couldn't understand it. I guess they know about it there moreso than the US.
  - phillc73 5y ago
    There are still places on the Croatian Adriatic which aren’t over run with tourists. Of course the popular areas are extremely crowded. There are still other beautiful islands which are not so busy. I’m writing this from a small 20 tent only campsite on a Croatian island. Access is only by ferry. Facilities are limited (no large supermarkets for example). It’s our third summer here and while there have been some changes, it is very slow. Taking a boat out for a day or two also allows for exploration of other, more remote islands. Some bays still aren’t over crowded with boats anchoring for the day. Also, later in August and early in the week are quieter times. Yesterday, I was the only person swimming at a nice sandy beach at 14:00.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      Wifi or 3/4g?
      - phillc73 5y ago
        LTE mobile data
        randomopining 5y ago
        Awesome. I've been to Croatia twice. Which area? The islands south of Istrian peninsula? They seem pretty chill.
        phillc73 5y ago
        Yes those islands, but some of them like Krk and Rab are very, very touristy. Other places which require a ferry to reach, like Cres for example, not so bad.
- moonchrome 5y ago
  Too late - I grew up going to stay with my grandparents at Pag a lot during 90s (during the war and after) - I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. Forward to early 2000s and I remember car jams 4km long for some random low-key event in a fishing village (ribarske večeri). These days it's not worth going to any tourist areas during season anymore, everything is overcrowded and the infrastructure isn't built to support that much people (roads, parking, water supply/sewage treatment, restaurants). Late spring and early autumn are still gorgeous. If you rent a boat it can be a bit better, but even then it's a hassle with marinas, etc. Just avoid the peak months IMO.
  - sbacic 5y ago
    > I remember the streets were so empty we would play football. We did this as well. There were a lot less cars and a lot more children back then. Now it's the opposite. I think that at some point we'll wake up to the cultural and environmental devastation we've wrought and do something about it. Hopefully it won't be too late by then.
- kebman 5y ago
  I first discovered Croatia when it was called Yugoslavia. Yes, it's an extremely beautiful country. But the area also has systemic problems that to me seems to be political in nature. Well, perhaps not all. Some of it is also simply economic. For good or bad, that leads to cheap prices on everything, which is the real reason so many people come, despite its charm. I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. And where there's income, it's also worth investing in infrastructure.
  - sbacic 5y ago
    > I'm sure that can be alleviated with with and good leadership, however. I very much doubt it - one of the reasons we are in this mess is some 80+ years of human capital devastation - we have nowhere to draw experts or leaders from anymore.
    - kebman 5y ago
      Hm, that's very sad to hear... What would you do about it?
      - jokethrowaway 5y ago
        Remove inefficient governments, privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess and attract foreign capital through zero taxation and lack of regulations. You need rich foreign expats, tired of paying 50% of their salaries in exchange for run down cities and homelessness, creating value in the country. If tourism is your only strategy you won't go far.
        mschuster91 5y ago
        > privatise all public services, let the market clean up the mess Half-Croat here. What you propose would destroy what is left of the country. Public services are already shoddy as it is because Croatia doesn't have much economy outside of tourism, agriculture and a bit of heavy industry. The best and young minds have been leaving the country for well over half a century.
- higeorge13 5y ago
  I think the whole Med has become like this. Travel is so mainstream nowadays (at least before covid), same with people buying properties in foreign countries.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    Yeah I think internet + Airbnb really opened some spots up. Like in the 90s, how did you find new spots? Mostly word of mouth on the ground I would assume. Less/no remote workers constantly traveling and sharing their opinions, etc.
    - asdff 5y ago
      In the 90s you went to a travel agent who arranged your airfare, lodging, even cab fare in between. You wouldn't find like an airbnb setup so easily, but Croatia is absolutely full of hotels even to this day. Honestly even today its easier to just pay someone to do that for you than fuddle with half a dozen websites to do the same on your own time.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  Thanks to tourism your country was exposed to Western Europe and people speak English. If you think things are bad now look at Serbia: sold to China because nobody in the EU cares.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    What's it like in Serbia, do Chinese oligarchs own everything?
    - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
      The Chinese are buying up Serbia's industry and mining. They provide jobs and money but care nothing for the environment.
      - randomopining 5y ago
        Yeah it seems like that in that area. I've seen similar in Hungary. They are just using peoples' grievances with US and EU as an opening to get in and take economic control slowly.
- quadrifoliate 5y ago
  I visit Europe about once a year, and am low key avoiding visiting most of the former Yugoslavia because of this. I agree that having a rush of tourists in a country not accustomed to them can cause problems for both the tourists and the locals that resent the sudden influx.
  - moonchrome 5y ago
    I think you have a wrong impression - Croatia was a tourist destination during Yugoslavia. I think some places today still see less tourists then they did back then. Most of the coast has been living off tourism for at least half a century at this point. Also English level is pretty good among younger population, far better than say Spain or Italy. While I complain about it being overcrowded during peak tourist season that's just me reminiscing about the time that I grew up which was during and shortly after the civil war (naturally not a lot of tourism back then and it took years to recover). Any popular tourist place in Europe I've been to has been similar, eg. Dubrovnik is super popular and overcrowded - but so is Venice for example (if not worse).
ceilingcorner 5y ago
Advertising it online isn’t going to keep it preserved for very long.

AlbertCory 5y ago

I had the misfortune to have my first visit to London during the Falklands War. I'd always wanted to visit Parliament during Question Time, which is usually easy because it's so boring. But this was when Margaret Thatcher was having her memorable confrontations with Labour over the war, and there was a long line to get in. Never saw it. But Wellington, NZ has an accurate copy of the House of Commons for its own Parliament, so at least I saw that.

emmanueloga_ 5y ago
907 were killed, 1,188 Argentine and 777 British injured or wounded ... but if it wasn't for the war, you could have seen the Parliament. Such misfortune.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't be a jerk on HN. Note this guideline: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html With a comment like the GP, it's actually the upvotes that cause the greater problem (unintentionally), because being at the top of a thread puts a spotlight on a post which brings out things that people otherwise wouldn't notice, or at least wouldn't attack them for.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    Thank you, dang. It was, indeed, a trivial personal anecdote, brought on the word "Falklands." People are more than welcome to downvote it if they don't want to see it. At the time I sent it, there was only one other comment on this post, and I didn't expect to see many more. And no, no apologies will be forthcoming.
- chronolitus 5y ago
  In real life, would you also respond to a trivial personal anecdote with moral chastising? Does the discussion have to take a form of geopolitical virtue signalling anytimes it grazes a big 'bad' event like a war? Is it ok to talk about mundane things, even in the shadow of the colossal international storms that surround us, without having to make a performance of fighting their shadows at all times?

arcticbull 5y ago

Always been on my list to visit as a subject of Her Majesty, along with St. Helena, Ascension, Tristan da Cunha and Pitcairn.

chrisseaton 5y ago
Very unlikely you’re a ‘subject’ - that’s a very specific legal status designed for complex internationality edge cases which almost nobody uses any more.
- ShroudedNight 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject Exploring this rabbit hole evoked vague memories of Canadians holding British passports until around the time my parents were born. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Canadian_nationality_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Canadian_nationalit...
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Huh. TIL I was born a British subject, but lost the status in 1987.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Yeah, haha, I'm a British and Canadian dual-national, so in the post-1983 world, I'm a British Citizen and a Commonwealth Citizen. I was using it as an archaic turn of phrase rather than referring to the specific status. You did lead me down an interesting rabbit hole!
BoxOfRain 5y ago
I'd love to visit all of the British Overseas Territories at some point, although I doubt I'll cross all of them off my list as a few of them are effectively off-limits to civilians.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  That's why I left BIOT/Diego Garcia off the list haha - I've no interest in a mandatory visit to Gitmo shortly thereafter.

Santosh83 5y ago

If your occupied territory is far from the main seat of your remnant empire, you MUST send in as many troops as possible in the short term and then as many immigrants as possible in the long term, to consolidate your overseas hold by means of demographic claim. There is no great mystery here. What is interesting is how this behaviour from the Western nations is tacitly ignored but somehow China asserting its claim over HK or Taiwan becomes a matter for international outrage. The outrage would be more real if Britain handed over Falkland to Argentina and then they would have better moral authority to ask China to desist from expansionism.

scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
I don’t think these two things are the same. Taiwan or HK are/were large scale democratic societies, economic hubs, cultural centers etc. The Falklands are a couple of strategically located islands in the middle of nowhere.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  I think a closer analog to the Falklands is the European colonial powers and much of the Caribbean. The French and St. Martin/St. Barts, the Dutch and Sint Maarten/Aruba/Bonaire/Curacao - and of course the British Overseas Territories of Anguilla, Bermuda, the BVI, Montserrat and Turks and Caicos. The latter has interestingly tried to join Canada a few times. Not really located anywhere strategic.
  - KingOfCoders 5y ago
    I agree in principle, though some of these islands want to stay with France / the EU, in contrary to the Falklands it is the native people there that want to stay, not the (only) the colonialists.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Sounds a bit like Wallis and Futuna - the French have been open to, or even supportive of decolonization for decades now, but the Wallisians have no interest in leaving France [1] - perhaps they learned from the divergent stories of La Reunion and Mayotte as compared to the Comoro Islands? I believe La Reunion has the highest GDP per capita in all of Africa (confirmed, 27000USD, which is way, way higher than the nearest continental neighbor). The EU even paid to put up a giant ring highway around the island. [2] No such luck for residents of Grande Comore, who are among the poorest on the continent - $1400USD - among the poorest on earth. It's interesting, such far-flung territories with limited resources, limited space and limited connections seem to be positioned to benefit the most from the largesse of a parent nation. Especially with European powers eager to distance themselves from their colonial past and ready to give their dependent territories maximum latitutde. [1] https://theculturetrip.com/pacific/wallis-futuna/articles/french-or-polynesian-the-curious-case-of-wallis-and-futuna/ https://theculturetrip.com/pacific/wallis-futuna/articles/fr... [2] https://www.vinci-construction-projets.com/en/realisations/new-coastal-road/ https://www.vinci-construction-projets.com/en/realisations/n...

zingar 5y ago

"...(the only access to the islands) is to have a pre-arranged job contract with a company that has signed a form of bond taking responsibility for you" That sounds like all British immigration rules. My employer had to apply for my visa and had to pay all my healthcare contributions for a year up front before I could move for a job in London. If I lose my job I have a few weeks to find a new employer (who will have to be willing to pay for a visa transfer) or I have to leave the country. It's a bizarre system but it seems like this reporter doesn't know how normal it is. I doubt British people know how bizarre the policies that arose from their voting are either. (Likewise for Europe and the US)

lmm 5y ago
Is it bizarre? Sounds like similar rules to anywhere - no country wants to let in people who can't support themselves.
- ben_w 5y ago
  It feels like double-counting to me: > pay all my healthcare contributions for a year up front Is fine by itself, at least assuming you then get a discount on the PAYE taxes that you’re essentially pre-paying here. > If I lose my job I have a few weeks to find a new employer (who will have to be willing to pay for a visa transfer) or I have to leave the country. Paying to transfer the visa seems a bit strange to me (though I’m conscious of my own naïveté), but otherwise this is also fine by itself. Both together? Not so much.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > Paying to transfer the visa seems a bit strange to me There's a bureaucracy to support, so fees for everything they do.
    - MichaelZuo 5y ago
      Yes, imagine if the bureaucracy lost the visa paperwork and it was ‘free’. Paying for services rendered as described is certainly the standard expectation.

PostThisTooFast 5y ago

"So many?" I don't know anyone who's moved there. Why don't we ask Israel why they're "settling" land that isn't theirs?

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Don't go. My young friend went on contract for a year, doing fishery research. After a few months they said "We aren't going to pay you any more. You can't leave because the boat won't come back until {whenever}. And if you say anything, we won't give you the recommendation you need as a young researcher doing a PhD." She had to stay for months working for nothing. It's slavery, and they know it, and that's how it works. Don't go.

aww_dang 5y ago
Can you say who held the contract?
- bbarnett 5y ago
  It would. And after their hold on her was over, she should have screamed to the hills. While I get the reluctance, at the same time, not yelling about it means others get burned. That's just plain wrong.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Her professor counseled her against reporting. They needed the contact to get PhD students positions and recommendations. Reporting it online meant throwing up obstacles to herself for holding other academic positions. A PhD student is hostage against the system.
    - bbarnett 5y ago
      Her professor counceled her to let him trap others in the same situation?!? Fine professor. Sounds like she should wait until after she gets her phd, then scream. And, while leveling accusations at the professor too. He's as guilty as they are.
      - bbarnett 5y ago
        You should council your friend to keep as much data, write everything down (keep a log book), keep backups of emails etc. Don't let time, let scum win.