17 ms·

Swiping left on magnetic stripes

176 points by w3ll_w3ll_w3ll 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
modeless 5y ago
I'll believe it when I see it. I heard signatures were going away years ago and yet I keep getting asked for signatures.
- kuroguro 5y ago
  Haven't had to sign anything for 15+ years, newer cards don't even have the space for signatures (Europe/MasterCard). I do have to do the mag-swipe maybe once a year, if the chip reader is acting up (still no signature, it asks for the PIN).
  - ollien 5y ago
    I just got a new credit card recently. There definitely still is the space for signatures in the US. I actually once had a store turn me away because I didn't sign it.
  - lrem 5y ago
    Got a new Mastercard in Europe this year, still with signature space. Same for Visa from two banks.
    - kuroguro 5y ago
      Couldn't find the exact card, but here's an example from my neighbors if anyone's interested. I guess it's not a thing everywhere yet. https://www.swedbank.lt/img/private/d2d/cards/3dSecure/816x246-3dsecure-example-LT.png https://www.swedbank.lt/img/private/d2d/cards/3dSecure/816x2... _edit_ They dropped the requirement in 2018 https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2018/signing-off-mastercard-moves-beyond-signatures-worldwide/ https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2018/signing-off-maste...
      - w3ll_w3ll_w3ll 5y ago
        Nice video!
    - kzrdude 5y ago
      Got a new mastercard (debit) without signature field and a mastercard (credit) with embossed numbers and signature field. It makes sense with the debit/credit split.
  - fastball 5y ago
    My Apple Card doesn't have a space for a signature but it also doesn't have a PIN. Does have a chip though, a combination I find routinely frustrating. Just let me use a PIN if the card has a chip!
- tyingq 5y ago
  I think some of it is just them not marketing features. I was unaware that my card would do the NFC/no-pin-needed thing until I paid attention to someone in front of me in line one day.
- swiley 5y ago
  Signatures are for you, not the card company. This is why I sign with a nonce.
  - modeless 5y ago
    No, they're for the merchant. They don't benefit me at all. But merchants were supposed to stop requiring them by now.
    - swiley 5y ago
      They're supposed to help you locate fraudulent transactions after your card is stolen. I guess that benefits the merchant because it makes you less likely to mark legitimate transactions as fraudulent.
      - modeless 5y ago
        No, you can't see the signatures, so they don't help you locate fraudulent transactions. What they do is provide a defense for the merchant against you. If you try to say you didn't authorize the charge, then the merchant can produce the signature as proof that you did. The signature is never evidence that you weren't there. Even if it is someone else's name, that doesn't prove anything, so it never benefits you.
      - derefr 5y ago
        In a world where that was actually the goal, you'd presumably be able to see a little image of the signature used, beside each card-provided charge in on your credit card in your online banking portal.
  - drawfloat 5y ago
    What’s his name?
- bryanthompson 5y ago
  There are some reasons it still exists, however, it is no longer required and merchants/POS systems ought to start phasing it out. In the US, the way we do tip on receipt is a lot more natural if you're asking for a signature. Without a signature, you're just handing someone a tip option, which is awkward with our current way of doing things. Some merchants opt to keep signature enabled because it gives them a fuzzy feeling and it's a point of closure to a transaction.
  - djhworld 5y ago
    When I was over there I constantly got confused around the tipping system and how some bars keep a tab open for you (by take your card and putting it in a little book at the back and then you pay/tip at the end) I didn't trust that so I ended up just signing the receipt and adding the tip to the bottom and keeping my card in my wallet. Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of tips that night!
    - learc83 5y ago
      >Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of tips that night! You generally tip based on percentage or the number of drinks, so it shouldn't matter too much unless you're doing it by percentage and rounding up the nearest dollar.
  - anakaine 5y ago
    For those abroad, even the notion of tipping can be absurd. Using that notion as a point of support for a payment system the levies fraud responsibilities onto the merchant and is very easy to circumvent, and the reason most other places moved to chip+pin, or contactless a long time ago is even more amusing. I understand what you're saying, and how its locally relevant, but from the outside looking in the US is a long way behind on keeping up with the tech in this space.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Lot's of payment terminals in the UK allow the customer to input the service charge themselves before they enter their PIN. Otherwise the waiter/waitress typically asks you how much you want to pay before typing in the amount. If you're splitting the bill then they need to do that anyway.
- tiffanyh 5y ago
  Signature requirement has gone away in the US (and Mastercard was also the first to do that was well). Just so many merchants are accomplished to asking for it (or haven't updated their terminals to code for not asking for it) - which is why you still encounter it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
w3ll_w3ll_w3ll 5y ago
"The magnetic stripe will start to disappear in 2024 from Mastercard payment cards in regions, such as Europe, where chip cards are already widely used. Banks in the U.S. will no longer be required to issue chip cards with a magnetic stripe, starting in 2027. By 2029, no new Mastercard credit or debit cards will be issued with a magnetic stripe. Prepaid cards in the U.S. and Canada are currently exempt from this change."
- paxys 5y ago
  My, really setting themselves aggressive targets huh.
  - scoopertrooper 5y ago
    At least in Australia the magnetic stripe is already gone for all intents and purposes. I can't remember the last time I used it. The American schedule may be a little aggressive though, you guys still use cheques extensively.
    - toast0 5y ago
      > The American schedule may be a little aggressive though, you guys still use cheques extensively. Naw, we use checks, much more convenient than cheques.
    - barsonme 5y ago
      Define extensively. Anybody who pays with checks in situations where credit cards or cash can be used is gonna get funny looks, unless they’re a little old lady.
      - herbst 5y ago
        Compare that to every single bank refusing to pay out my $150 check. Most banks even having no idea if this is actually still a thing, some had to get their boss to ask because they never had this situation before. I still have that check because it's literally worth nothing around here.
tpmx 5y ago
So most of my current cards (in Europe) have 3 interaction methods: In order of decreasing readability/communication reliability: 1. Magnetic stripe 2. NFC 3. EMV The EMV ("chip") method is the least insecure, but lately all of my cards have been started oxidating. And it seems like the pogo pins in almost all readers also started wearing out too. Chip reader failures have become very common lately. It's very common that I have to both clean the card before using it and also bend it while pushing it into the reader to counteract the worn out pogo pins in the in-store reader. Super annoying. NFC has been a saver, but because of the banks security risk (it's cleartext, after all) you can't really use it all of the time. The magnetic stripe seems like it never seems to stop working. I've assumed I can't use it outside of my native country, though, perhaps incorrectly.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  You can request a new card from your bank, you will get it probably within a week. Problems solved.
  - tpmx 5y ago
    Sure, but it doesn't solve the worn out card EMV reader problem.
- the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
  To echo my other comment: my chip broke on my debit card and the card refused to work with magstripe only (and it was broken in a way were the NFC thing also no longer functioned). So not sure if the magstripe has any functionality in the SEPA region based on that experience.
  - sean1524 5y ago
    I think the magstripe is disabled in my region, I've never managed to use it on any of my cards. I tried testing it out to see if it even was functional. Surely they must work as I've heard quite a few stories of card skimmers...
Waterluvian 5y ago
Haven’t used the magnetic strip in years in Canada. It just isn’t a thing anymore.
the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
I'm pretty sure the magstripe is already somewhat disabled over here. My debit mastercard refuses to work outside of the European union unless I disable the geo locking in the banking app, and when my chip was broken the readers kept telling me to put the chip in.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  In the US, many POS terminals refuse to use the stripe until there have been 3 failed chip reads.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  My debit cards only work with the chip, although the stripe is physically present, it doesn't contain any data (apparently).
- paulgerhardt 5y ago
  That’s just a bit on the mag strip that encodes if your card has a chip present. You can flip it with a writer and use the magnet strip again if you want. It’s quicker as one doesn’t have to wait for the Javacard OS on the chip to boot up and handshake. (Ie swipe and walk away vs insert, wait 4 seconds, remove). Wouldn’t do this on my debit card but it’s fine on credit cards with chargeback protection.
  - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
    Interesting. That said, no desire to do this. I do effectively 100% of my transactions by watch now and that beats any alternative.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    Isn't that going to lead to the transaction being denied, either by the bank (which knows there's a chip), or even the reader (does it know that all cards beginning WXYZ have chips, for example?)?
    - daveoc64 5y ago
gnicholas 5y ago
I sometimes keep my credit card near my iPhone. I have wondered about the impact on credit cards of the new MagSafe magnets in iPhones. I guess if there aren't magnetic strips anymore, I won't have to worry about it. OTOH, there won't be any backup if the chip doesn't work, which it doesn't always.
- brundolf 5y ago
  There will still be NFC (on the card and, potentially, your phone). That's what I end up using most often these days anyway
  - gnicholas 5y ago
    I don't actually have NFC on any of my cards, though I do use it on my phone.
drclau 5y ago
Why does it take so long? Where’s the bottleneck? Where I lived over the last years (two countries in Europe), I don’t even have to use the physical card. I just use contactless payments with the phone. Prior to that, it was contactless with card. Even ATMs work with contactless (not all, yet). Prior to that, it was chip. I honestly don’t even recall the time when the magnetic stripe was needed. (edit) Think of this: I made an account with one of these neo banks, ordered the card too, and it took me over a year to activate it. I still don’t use it. I just installed the virtual card into the phone’s wallet and used the account like that.
- robcohen 5y ago
  It really is mind blowing to me. Especially in a pandemic, why why why require a signature for anything? This is one of the few things that would reduce exposure that we already have a technical solution for. I just don’t understand.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    Surfaces don't matter much for covid, it's very unlikely you'll catch it that way.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    As others have said, it doesn't have to be. Much of the world has long moved on from mag stripes and signatures.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >Especially in a pandemic, why why why require a signature for anything? This is one of the few things that would reduce exposure that we already have a technical solution for. Turns out infection from surfaces is basically a non-issue. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-hygiene-cleaning-surfaces.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-hygien...
    - dom96 5y ago
      Got any non-paywalled sources handy?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
protomyth 5y ago
I wonder what the statistics are on gas station pumps in the US for magnetic card versus other methods?
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Yea--hooray, it shouid have been done years ago. I would rather see MasterCard lower their fees, and take 100% liability for stolen numbers/information.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
I hope that means Home Depot and Target have to accept tap to pay…
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Home depot in Canada does.
  - pitterpatter 5y ago
    Canada was a lot quicker on the uptake with both chips and tap for whatever reason.
    - wvenable 5y ago
      Less than a dozen major banks makes it pretty easily to roll out these systems in Canada.
      - pitterpatter 5y ago
        Good point. I also imagine just altogether less hardware to replace overall given the much smaller population.
- fullstop 5y ago
  Target, at least in the USA, supports tap & pay. Home Depot is still holding out, though.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    Do mobile devices work? The Target here does not accept Apple Pay…
    - fullstop 5y ago
      Yes, I use my Android device. They list Apple Pay as being supported. [1] 1. https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Accepted+payment+options&parentcat=Payment+Options https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Acc...
dane-pgp 5y ago
> By 2033, no Mastercard credit and debit cards will have magnetic stripes I wouldn't be surprised if, by 2033, people will be identified using biometrics everywhere, so you can pay with your hand print or face scan.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Maybe FedNow could take over the mobile payment industry depending on how truly instant it is, and become similar the role WePay takes in China. https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about....
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    WePay and Alipay have their dual in CashApp and Venmo. The only difference being that Alipay has a lot more institutional support, ie. you can scan your QR code at the grocery store - not the case with Venmo (yet).
    - asdff 5y ago
      Venmo offers debit and you can add the card to your wallet
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        I do not understand the purpose of Venmo. It seems like an unnecessary middleman.
        whimsicalism 5y ago
        How do I easily pay a friend? Are you just going to say Zelle?
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Yes. Are there any advantages of Venmo over Zelle?
hamburgerwah 5y ago
Still a LOT of merchants that need to upgrade equipment to do chip cards including some large franchises. There is a real problem that chip reading devices do not yet have anywhere near the longevity that magswipe use does. Machines go out of service for repair and cleaning after as little as a month of use in busy locations. Magstripe machines typically lasted 12 months plus before needing attention.
- Kiro 5y ago
  Where do you live? I haven't seen a card terminal that can't do chip in like 15 years. The old terminals that need to be upgraded are the ones that can't do contactless but even those are rare. A card terminal that can only do magnetic seems really alien and ancient.
  - barsonme 5y ago
    Lots of Jimmy Johns in my area (circa 2012) only had swipe readers for some reason. But around 2014 they started upgrading to chip readers.
- anakaine 5y ago
  This is just not true. It is even less true for readers that support contactless payment.
- derefr 5y ago
  Who cares about inserting chips into the machine? We're already well past that, to contactless payment — tapping the chipped card against the terminal like an NFC door tag. It still uses the chip, and can still require your PIN (depending on your bank); you just don't stick the card in the machine to do it. MTBF = approximately forever. Inserting the chip is a fallback, or for high-value transactions. Both use-cases are low-volume enough that a POS terminal's chip-slot reader should see relatively little use/wear.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  In Finland they motivated the stores to upgrade by telling them that after date X they would be responsible for any fraudulent transactions done with a magstrip. The transition went really fucking fast after that =)
laptop-man 5y ago
most stores in my town (pop 500, US, mi) still take personal checks. mag reader is needed for fuel pump. a few times needed in store when ship reader wasn't working.
nashashmi 5y ago
Of the three modes nfc is my favorite, takes less time, but also works less reliably. Chip takes the longest time. And I keep removing it early out of habit. And stripe is the least used. But works the best.
- kergonath 5y ago
  Yeah, it was very confusing the first time I went to the US for more than a couple of days. When getting some cash, I was used to putting the card in ATMs and leave it there during the operation. In the US, the ATM did nothing before I took the card out. When I came back I kept pulling the card early.
  - asdff 5y ago
    That is to help you so you don't forget your card in the ATM after you finish your business.
    - wrboyce 5y ago
      In the UK (and most of Europe afaik) the card is ejected immediately before the cash; the ejecting of the card indicates your authenticated session has ended.
      - asdff 5y ago
        There are some in the U.S. that do this, but it still didn't stop my friend from leaving his card in the ATM and having to go through a process with the bank and wait for a new card to show. Better to just make sure you have it by stopping you from doing anything else until you have it imo.
        wrboyce 5y ago
        To drive the point home: you can’t have your cash until you have taken the card… I really do feel this is better in every way.
        5y ago
JoshTriplett 5y ago
In recent years, I've had more transactions using the embossed numbers than I've had using the magnetic stripe. I've had a few taxis in various countries dig out and use one of the slide-across carbon-paper impression machines, once they got through the second or third round of "are you sure you won't pay with cash?". I've had fewer cases of "our chip reader doesn't work, please swipe the card instead".
perardi 5y ago
Why wouldn’t everywhere be supporting contactless payments by this point? And that’s not me being snippy, because perplexingly, Mariano’s, a grocery store chain in Chicago owned by Kroger’s, does not support NFC payments. (I assume Kroger’s stores proper don’t either.) You have to swipe, use the chip, or use the dedicated Kroger Pay app to scan a QR code to use your digital wallet. (Yes, really. Took them forever to even support chips instead of magstripes.) I have absolutely no idea why they do this. Is there a higher interchange fee for contactless? Kroger’s isn’t some mom-and-pop convenience store—they’re the largest supermarket company by revenue.
- paxys 5y ago
  Because these chains have decades old point of sales systems which no one wants to touch. It isn't simply a matter of swapping out one card reader for another.
  - yakz 5y ago
    They did swap out all of the payment terminals, though. Just for ones without that functionality. However, I could believe that they selected the hardware because they were stuck with choices that were compatible with other systems. Kroger is a big company with quite a lot of resources, though.
  - leesalminen 5y ago
    Kroger brand stores have terminals that support contactless. Their self checkout lanes get new hardware and/or software every couple of years. I’ve worked with many payment gateways over the years and enabling contactless on a stack that already did EMV never required a code change on the POS system. The terminal just passes the same data along to the POS. I’m convinced there’s some fees at play here. The standout to me is how they push Kroger Pay - that’s to save on processing fees.
- yakz 5y ago
  I've been shopping at Kroger regularly for decades and my guess is that it might have something to do with the timing around their last major payment terminal upgrade. They upgraded before NFC payments were very popular but fairly close to when they really needed to support chip cards (my recollection was that the payment networks were saying they would no longer insure against fraud without a chip terminal), and it seems like for whatever reason they went with a terminal that didn't support it. I remember being annoyed with seeing all of the seemingly brand-new hardware being installed at multiple locations that very obviously lacked NFC payment support.
kzrdude 5y ago
I've wondered if I shouldn't just rip off the magnetic stripe - I never use it, and it's just a security risk.
- aj3 5y ago
  It's a security risk even if you don't use it. Someone just seeing your card briefly could copy it as the stripe has the same info that's printed on it. Incidentally, this discussion is filled with people who have no idea how payments are authorized.
latchkey 5y ago
I'd prefer we just phase out MasterCard. I went to a restaurant the other day. QR code on the receipt. Scan that and it opens up Toast. Toast then connects to Apple Pay, which then connects to my credit card. No less than 3 middlemen to pay the restaurant, is absurd. QRCode -> Wallet on my phone holding stablecoin on a L2 like polygon (which is collecting APY through DeFi) -> Restaurant
- numbsafari 5y ago
  Hello Strawman. Does anyone actually pay the way you described? Honestly? I either swipe my card or hand it to them to do it for me and call it a day. I don't have to worry about some cryptojockey screwing up a DeFi contract scheme and all my money being stolen in a non-FDIC insured account. I have fraud protections against card theft. It ain't perfect, but it's not the electronic equivalent of walking around with me lucky charms in my fanny pack, ripe for the mugging, either.
- larrybud 5y ago
  While your point is valid regarding a crazy number of middlemen, I've also paid via the QR code on the receipt at a number of restaurants recently and I love it! No need to flag down a server when it's time to pay; I just scan it on my phone, click on apple pay, enter the tip, and I'm done!
  - latchkey 5y ago
    Don't get me wrong, I love it too. I didn't suggest getting rid of the QR code, just the backend flow of middlemen taking fees from the restaurant.
- latchkey 5y ago
  I got downvoted, yet we end up with things like this: https://twitter.com/postcultrev/status/1428584131835748359 https://twitter.com/postcultrev/status/1428584131835748359
KingMachiavelli 5y ago
Even in the US, I can't remember when I last had to use the magstrip. [1] I could probabbly degauss the magnetic strip and not have any issues. If you have a chip debit card that you never use... it probably isn't a bad idea to make the card chip only. What I actually want is a specific bank alert if the card is used without the chip. Currently I just make any transaction over $20 send an email. [1] I guess at resturants where they actually take the card for a minute, I don't know if it's chip or magstrip transaction.
akmarinov 5y ago
I’m from Europe and honestly I’ve never used a magnetic strip to pay with a card. Looks really cool though.
- skookum 5y ago
  If you think the magnetic strip looks cool, wait until you see a credit card imprinter!
leotravis10 5y ago
> Prepaid cards in the U.S. and Canada are currently exempt from this change. I'm telling you all, prepaid cards are a scam. Why? One of the reasons besides massive fees and shady tactics for most are because they're so far behind the times. Most don't even have a chip for example. Look at a Netspend card (using it as a prime example) and compare it to any bank card today.
champtar 5y ago
Do they mandate chip + pin yet ? Some years ago I got a Credit Card in the USA with chip but without pin, thus unusable in some places in Europe.
fny 5y ago
What a sad day. Swipes were far more user friendly and the failure rate with reading these chips is unreal. Here's to hoping the next "upgrade" isn't a nightmare.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Contactless works pretty well in my experience and doesn’t put any physical wear on the card. There’s a couple big retailers still holding out, but most places I go seem to have it enabled these days.
- grecy 5y ago
  I've been exclusively using the chip in my Credit and Debit Cards for at least a decade - every transaction works, every time for the life of the card. I've used them from Botswana to Egypt to Morocco to Canada through Central and South America and Australia. They work perfectly.
- deepspace 5y ago
  What country are you in? In the past 10 or so years, I have NEVER had a failure with a Chip-and-Pin transaction or a contactless transaction in Canada.
- PostThisTooFast 5y ago
  OK Gramps.
- pitterpatter 5y ago
  How so? There's no swipe motion you need to get right; just slide in the card and done?
- herbst 5y ago
  The only bottleneck I am aware of are the sometimes way to slow internet connections these terminals use. My cards just work
Johnny555 5y ago
I use my credit card at brick and mortar merchants less and less -- even my local gas station accepts Android/Apple Pay (and presumably contactless card taps, but I couldn't get it to work with my card). Even the cafe I frequent switched to readers (I think they were Square) associated with an iPad so I add a tip and pay with my phone at the table. But what are they doing to secure online payments? Last time my card number was stolen, all of the fradulent charges were at online merchants.
- peteretep 5y ago
  > what are they doing to secure online payments? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure
- tpetry 5y ago
  Online transactions can be secured by solutions like 3D Secure. In the european union for european countries such solutions are already required for dome transactions. But US companies hesitate to enforce them as they make buying less convenient but much more secure. Or the CCV printed at the back of a credit card, this is impossible for bank cards in europe. But mastercard and visa prefer the convenient approach. It would be a nice if one of the new fintech startups added the option in the account settings to enforce 3D Secure for all online transactions.
aimor 5y ago
This might sound like a stretch, but I wish I could just pay without having my phone or card or cash or anything else on me. In general I'm growing weary of authentication hell, but specifically with how it all seems to come back to requiring my phone. I really wouldn't mind just keying in my account number and pin to make a payment, but of course that's just username + password and I suppose unacceptably risky. The solution I expect is for Amazon to recognized my face and bill me.
- basicplus2 5y ago
  Get one of these.. halo ring https://www.bankwest.com.au/personal/ways-to-pay/bankwest-halo https://www.bankwest.com.au/personal/ways-to-pay/bankwest-ha...
- deelowe 5y ago
  > The solution I expect is for Amazon to recognized my face and bill me. I'm just going to go live in the woods. We grown way too comfortable as a society.
- avnigo 5y ago
  Amazon wants to scan your palm. https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/02/amazon-credit-palm-biometrics/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/02/amazon-credit-palm-biometr...
PostThisTooFast 5y ago
I love how these assholes are patting themselves on the back for being 20 years behind the rest of the industrialized world. Fuck you, BastarCard.
fortylove 5y ago
Does this mean that we can finally have smaller credit cards, if they only need to be big enough to hold the chip? (Assuming payment slots can somehow handle multiple card sizes, eventually...)
- Wildgoose 5y ago
  I have a McLear Ring which embeds the contactless chip in a ceramic ring I wear on my little finger. No need to mess about fishing a card out of your pocket or wallet, it's just there. It comes with its own bank account which you simply top up. Works really well. https://mclear.com https://mclear.com
yarcob 5y ago
If you want to do it faster, you need government regulation. Magnetic stripes have been phased out in the EU for a couple of years. And additionally online card payments all require 2FA in EU. As a result, there's barely any credit card fraud in Europe. You can't expect the industry to invest in infrastructure if dealing with fraud is cheaper in the short term. You need to force them.
- deelowe 5y ago
  Government regulation is what's pushing it already. Credit card companies are liable for fraud. Mag stripe has become extremely insecure now that just about anyone can build a reader. So the CC companies are moving to chip and rfid based systems. The bad news is that these new systems are considered so secure that the CC companies have much more limited liability. So that's likely to be a problem eventually.
kalleboo 5y ago
One thing I've been curious about is how long have ATMs been using chip readers? Do they use NFC readers now? The ATMs I've used all still pull they card in and dispense it, so you can't really see what technology they're using internally.
avnigo 5y ago
> The arrival of the magnetic stripe changed all that [...] offering more security... Is this what we'd call security through obscurity? I was under the impression that data on magnetic stripe was not encrypted.
metafunctor 5y ago
My MasterCard even has the raised numbers, and an unfilled spot for my signature. I remember a long time ago, some places still used a manual contraption to impress the digits on carbon copy paper. I wonder why they've retained that unused ability for decades. Not that it matters much. I've made payments with almost 100% Apple Pay for years — a lot of the time I don't even carry the physical card with me.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

I'll believe it when I see it. I heard signatures were going away years ago and yet I keep getting asked for signatures.

kuroguro 5y ago
Haven't had to sign anything for 15+ years, newer cards don't even have the space for signatures (Europe/MasterCard). I do have to do the mag-swipe maybe once a year, if the chip reader is acting up (still no signature, it asks for the PIN).
- ollien 5y ago
  I just got a new credit card recently. There definitely still is the space for signatures in the US. I actually once had a store turn me away because I didn't sign it.
- lrem 5y ago
  Got a new Mastercard in Europe this year, still with signature space. Same for Visa from two banks.
  - kuroguro 5y ago
    Couldn't find the exact card, but here's an example from my neighbors if anyone's interested. I guess it's not a thing everywhere yet. https://www.swedbank.lt/img/private/d2d/cards/3dSecure/816x246-3dsecure-example-LT.png https://www.swedbank.lt/img/private/d2d/cards/3dSecure/816x2... _edit_ They dropped the requirement in 2018 https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2018/signing-off-mastercard-moves-beyond-signatures-worldwide/ https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2018/signing-off-maste...
    - w3ll_w3ll_w3ll 5y ago
      Nice video!
  - kzrdude 5y ago
    Got a new mastercard (debit) without signature field and a mastercard (credit) with embossed numbers and signature field. It makes sense with the debit/credit split.
- fastball 5y ago
  My Apple Card doesn't have a space for a signature but it also doesn't have a PIN. Does have a chip though, a combination I find routinely frustrating. Just let me use a PIN if the card has a chip!
tyingq 5y ago
I think some of it is just them not marketing features. I was unaware that my card would do the NFC/no-pin-needed thing until I paid attention to someone in front of me in line one day.
swiley 5y ago
Signatures are for you, not the card company. This is why I sign with a nonce.
- modeless 5y ago
  No, they're for the merchant. They don't benefit me at all. But merchants were supposed to stop requiring them by now.
  - swiley 5y ago
    They're supposed to help you locate fraudulent transactions after your card is stolen. I guess that benefits the merchant because it makes you less likely to mark legitimate transactions as fraudulent.
    - modeless 5y ago
      No, you can't see the signatures, so they don't help you locate fraudulent transactions. What they do is provide a defense for the merchant against you. If you try to say you didn't authorize the charge, then the merchant can produce the signature as proof that you did. The signature is never evidence that you weren't there. Even if it is someone else's name, that doesn't prove anything, so it never benefits you.
    - derefr 5y ago
      In a world where that was actually the goal, you'd presumably be able to see a little image of the signature used, beside each card-provided charge in on your credit card in your online banking portal.
- drawfloat 5y ago
  What’s his name?
bryanthompson 5y ago
There are some reasons it still exists, however, it is no longer required and merchants/POS systems ought to start phasing it out. In the US, the way we do tip on receipt is a lot more natural if you're asking for a signature. Without a signature, you're just handing someone a tip option, which is awkward with our current way of doing things. Some merchants opt to keep signature enabled because it gives them a fuzzy feeling and it's a point of closure to a transaction.
- djhworld 5y ago
  When I was over there I constantly got confused around the tipping system and how some bars keep a tab open for you (by take your card and putting it in a little book at the back and then you pay/tip at the end) I didn't trust that so I ended up just signing the receipt and adding the tip to the bottom and keeping my card in my wallet. Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of tips that night!
  - learc83 5y ago
    >Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of tips that night! You generally tip based on percentage or the number of drinks, so it shouldn't matter too much unless you're doing it by percentage and rounding up the nearest dollar.
- anakaine 5y ago
  For those abroad, even the notion of tipping can be absurd. Using that notion as a point of support for a payment system the levies fraud responsibilities onto the merchant and is very easy to circumvent, and the reason most other places moved to chip+pin, or contactless a long time ago is even more amusing. I understand what you're saying, and how its locally relevant, but from the outside looking in the US is a long way behind on keeping up with the tech in this space.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Lot's of payment terminals in the UK allow the customer to input the service charge themselves before they enter their PIN. Otherwise the waiter/waitress typically asks you how much you want to pay before typing in the amount. If you're splitting the bill then they need to do that anyway.
tiffanyh 5y ago
Signature requirement has gone away in the US (and Mastercard was also the first to do that was well). Just so many merchants are accomplished to asking for it (or haven't updated their terminals to code for not asking for it) - which is why you still encounter it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

w3ll_w3ll_w3ll 5y ago

"The magnetic stripe will start to disappear in 2024 from Mastercard payment cards in regions, such as Europe, where chip cards are already widely used. Banks in the U.S. will no longer be required to issue chip cards with a magnetic stripe, starting in 2027. By 2029, no new Mastercard credit or debit cards will be issued with a magnetic stripe. Prepaid cards in the U.S. and Canada are currently exempt from this change."

paxys 5y ago
My, really setting themselves aggressive targets huh.
- scoopertrooper 5y ago
  At least in Australia the magnetic stripe is already gone for all intents and purposes. I can't remember the last time I used it. The American schedule may be a little aggressive though, you guys still use cheques extensively.
  - toast0 5y ago
    > The American schedule may be a little aggressive though, you guys still use cheques extensively. Naw, we use checks, much more convenient than cheques.
  - barsonme 5y ago
    Define extensively. Anybody who pays with checks in situations where credit cards or cash can be used is gonna get funny looks, unless they’re a little old lady.
    - herbst 5y ago
      Compare that to every single bank refusing to pay out my $150 check. Most banks even having no idea if this is actually still a thing, some had to get their boss to ask because they never had this situation before. I still have that check because it's literally worth nothing around here.

tpmx 5y ago

So most of my current cards (in Europe) have 3 interaction methods: In order of decreasing readability/communication reliability: 1. Magnetic stripe 2. NFC 3. EMV The EMV ("chip") method is the least insecure, but lately all of my cards have been started oxidating. And it seems like the pogo pins in almost all readers also started wearing out too. Chip reader failures have become very common lately. It's very common that I have to both clean the card before using it and also bend it while pushing it into the reader to counteract the worn out pogo pins in the in-store reader. Super annoying. NFC has been a saver, but because of the banks security risk (it's cleartext, after all) you can't really use it all of the time. The magnetic stripe seems like it never seems to stop working. I've assumed I can't use it outside of my native country, though, perhaps incorrectly.

FridayoLeary 5y ago
You can request a new card from your bank, you will get it probably within a week. Problems solved.
- tpmx 5y ago
  Sure, but it doesn't solve the worn out card EMV reader problem.
the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
To echo my other comment: my chip broke on my debit card and the card refused to work with magstripe only (and it was broken in a way were the NFC thing also no longer functioned). So not sure if the magstripe has any functionality in the SEPA region based on that experience.
- sean1524 5y ago
  I think the magstripe is disabled in my region, I've never managed to use it on any of my cards. I tried testing it out to see if it even was functional. Surely they must work as I've heard quite a few stories of card skimmers...

Waterluvian 5y ago

Haven’t used the magnetic strip in years in Canada. It just isn’t a thing anymore.

the_mitsuhiko 5y ago

I'm pretty sure the magstripe is already somewhat disabled over here. My debit mastercard refuses to work outside of the European union unless I disable the geo locking in the banking app, and when my chip was broken the readers kept telling me to put the chip in.

aidenn0 5y ago
In the US, many POS terminals refuse to use the stripe until there have been 3 failed chip reads.
pjmlp 5y ago
My debit cards only work with the chip, although the stripe is physically present, it doesn't contain any data (apparently).
paulgerhardt 5y ago
That’s just a bit on the mag strip that encodes if your card has a chip present. You can flip it with a writer and use the magnet strip again if you want. It’s quicker as one doesn’t have to wait for the Javacard OS on the chip to boot up and handshake. (Ie swipe and walk away vs insert, wait 4 seconds, remove). Wouldn’t do this on my debit card but it’s fine on credit cards with chargeback protection.
- the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
  Interesting. That said, no desire to do this. I do effectively 100% of my transactions by watch now and that beats any alternative.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  Isn't that going to lead to the transaction being denied, either by the bank (which knows there's a chip), or even the reader (does it know that all cards beginning WXYZ have chips, for example?)?
  - daveoc64 5y ago

gnicholas 5y ago

I sometimes keep my credit card near my iPhone. I have wondered about the impact on credit cards of the new MagSafe magnets in iPhones. I guess if there aren't magnetic strips anymore, I won't have to worry about it. OTOH, there won't be any backup if the chip doesn't work, which it doesn't always.

brundolf 5y ago
There will still be NFC (on the card and, potentially, your phone). That's what I end up using most often these days anyway
- gnicholas 5y ago
  I don't actually have NFC on any of my cards, though I do use it on my phone.

drclau 5y ago

Why does it take so long? Where’s the bottleneck? Where I lived over the last years (two countries in Europe), I don’t even have to use the physical card. I just use contactless payments with the phone. Prior to that, it was contactless with card. Even ATMs work with contactless (not all, yet). Prior to that, it was chip. I honestly don’t even recall the time when the magnetic stripe was needed. (edit) Think of this: I made an account with one of these neo banks, ordered the card too, and it took me over a year to activate it. I still don’t use it. I just installed the virtual card into the phone’s wallet and used the account like that.

robcohen 5y ago
It really is mind blowing to me. Especially in a pandemic, why why why require a signature for anything? This is one of the few things that would reduce exposure that we already have a technical solution for. I just don’t understand.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  Surfaces don't matter much for covid, it's very unlikely you'll catch it that way.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  As others have said, it doesn't have to be. Much of the world has long moved on from mag stripes and signatures.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Especially in a pandemic, why why why require a signature for anything? This is one of the few things that would reduce exposure that we already have a technical solution for. Turns out infection from surfaces is basically a non-issue. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-hygiene-cleaning-surfaces.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-hygien...
  - dom96 5y ago
    Got any non-paywalled sources handy?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

protomyth 5y ago

I wonder what the statistics are on gas station pumps in the US for magnetic card versus other methods?

hellbannedguy 5y ago

Yea--hooray, it shouid have been done years ago. I would rather see MasterCard lower their fees, and take 100% liability for stolen numbers/information.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

I hope that means Home Depot and Target have to accept tap to pay…

barbazoo 5y ago
Home depot in Canada does.
- pitterpatter 5y ago
  Canada was a lot quicker on the uptake with both chips and tap for whatever reason.
  - wvenable 5y ago
    Less than a dozen major banks makes it pretty easily to roll out these systems in Canada.
    - pitterpatter 5y ago
      Good point. I also imagine just altogether less hardware to replace overall given the much smaller population.
fullstop 5y ago
Target, at least in the USA, supports tap & pay. Home Depot is still holding out, though.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Do mobile devices work? The Target here does not accept Apple Pay…
  - fullstop 5y ago
    Yes, I use my Android device. They list Apple Pay as being supported. [1] 1. https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Accepted+payment+options&parentcat=Payment+Options https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Acc...

dane-pgp 5y ago

> By 2033, no Mastercard credit and debit cards will have magnetic stripes I wouldn't be surprised if, by 2033, people will be identified using biometrics everywhere, so you can pay with your hand print or face scan.

judge2020 5y ago
Maybe FedNow could take over the mobile payment industry depending on how truly instant it is, and become similar the role WePay takes in China. https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about....
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  WePay and Alipay have their dual in CashApp and Venmo. The only difference being that Alipay has a lot more institutional support, ie. you can scan your QR code at the grocery store - not the case with Venmo (yet).
  - asdff 5y ago
    Venmo offers debit and you can add the card to your wallet
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I do not understand the purpose of Venmo. It seems like an unnecessary middleman.
      - whimsicalism 5y ago
        How do I easily pay a friend? Are you just going to say Zelle?
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Yes. Are there any advantages of Venmo over Zelle?

hamburgerwah 5y ago

Still a LOT of merchants that need to upgrade equipment to do chip cards including some large franchises. There is a real problem that chip reading devices do not yet have anywhere near the longevity that magswipe use does. Machines go out of service for repair and cleaning after as little as a month of use in busy locations. Magstripe machines typically lasted 12 months plus before needing attention.

Kiro 5y ago
Where do you live? I haven't seen a card terminal that can't do chip in like 15 years. The old terminals that need to be upgraded are the ones that can't do contactless but even those are rare. A card terminal that can only do magnetic seems really alien and ancient.
- barsonme 5y ago
  Lots of Jimmy Johns in my area (circa 2012) only had swipe readers for some reason. But around 2014 they started upgrading to chip readers.
anakaine 5y ago
This is just not true. It is even less true for readers that support contactless payment.
derefr 5y ago
Who cares about inserting chips into the machine? We're already well past that, to contactless payment — tapping the chipped card against the terminal like an NFC door tag. It still uses the chip, and can still require your PIN (depending on your bank); you just don't stick the card in the machine to do it. MTBF = approximately forever. Inserting the chip is a fallback, or for high-value transactions. Both use-cases are low-volume enough that a POS terminal's chip-slot reader should see relatively little use/wear.
theshrike79 5y ago
In Finland they motivated the stores to upgrade by telling them that after date X they would be responsible for any fraudulent transactions done with a magstrip. The transition went really fucking fast after that =)

laptop-man 5y ago

most stores in my town (pop 500, US, mi) still take personal checks. mag reader is needed for fuel pump. a few times needed in store when ship reader wasn't working.

nashashmi 5y ago

Of the three modes nfc is my favorite, takes less time, but also works less reliably. Chip takes the longest time. And I keep removing it early out of habit. And stripe is the least used. But works the best.

kergonath 5y ago
Yeah, it was very confusing the first time I went to the US for more than a couple of days. When getting some cash, I was used to putting the card in ATMs and leave it there during the operation. In the US, the ATM did nothing before I took the card out. When I came back I kept pulling the card early.
- asdff 5y ago
  That is to help you so you don't forget your card in the ATM after you finish your business.
  - wrboyce 5y ago
    In the UK (and most of Europe afaik) the card is ejected immediately before the cash; the ejecting of the card indicates your authenticated session has ended.
    - asdff 5y ago
      There are some in the U.S. that do this, but it still didn't stop my friend from leaving his card in the ATM and having to go through a process with the bank and wait for a new card to show. Better to just make sure you have it by stopping you from doing anything else until you have it imo.
      - wrboyce 5y ago
        To drive the point home: you can’t have your cash until you have taken the card… I really do feel this is better in every way.
      - 5y ago

JoshTriplett 5y ago

In recent years, I've had more transactions using the embossed numbers than I've had using the magnetic stripe. I've had a few taxis in various countries dig out and use one of the slide-across carbon-paper impression machines, once they got through the second or third round of "are you sure you won't pay with cash?". I've had fewer cases of "our chip reader doesn't work, please swipe the card instead".

perardi 5y ago

Why wouldn’t everywhere be supporting contactless payments by this point? And that’s not me being snippy, because perplexingly, Mariano’s, a grocery store chain in Chicago owned by Kroger’s, does not support NFC payments. (I assume Kroger’s stores proper don’t either.) You have to swipe, use the chip, or use the dedicated Kroger Pay app to scan a QR code to use your digital wallet. (Yes, really. Took them forever to even support chips instead of magstripes.) I have absolutely no idea why they do this. Is there a higher interchange fee for contactless? Kroger’s isn’t some mom-and-pop convenience store—they’re the largest supermarket company by revenue.

paxys 5y ago
Because these chains have decades old point of sales systems which no one wants to touch. It isn't simply a matter of swapping out one card reader for another.
- yakz 5y ago
  They did swap out all of the payment terminals, though. Just for ones without that functionality. However, I could believe that they selected the hardware because they were stuck with choices that were compatible with other systems. Kroger is a big company with quite a lot of resources, though.
- leesalminen 5y ago
  Kroger brand stores have terminals that support contactless. Their self checkout lanes get new hardware and/or software every couple of years. I’ve worked with many payment gateways over the years and enabling contactless on a stack that already did EMV never required a code change on the POS system. The terminal just passes the same data along to the POS. I’m convinced there’s some fees at play here. The standout to me is how they push Kroger Pay - that’s to save on processing fees.
yakz 5y ago
I've been shopping at Kroger regularly for decades and my guess is that it might have something to do with the timing around their last major payment terminal upgrade. They upgraded before NFC payments were very popular but fairly close to when they really needed to support chip cards (my recollection was that the payment networks were saying they would no longer insure against fraud without a chip terminal), and it seems like for whatever reason they went with a terminal that didn't support it. I remember being annoyed with seeing all of the seemingly brand-new hardware being installed at multiple locations that very obviously lacked NFC payment support.

kzrdude 5y ago

I've wondered if I shouldn't just rip off the magnetic stripe - I never use it, and it's just a security risk.

aj3 5y ago
It's a security risk even if you don't use it. Someone just seeing your card briefly could copy it as the stripe has the same info that's printed on it. Incidentally, this discussion is filled with people who have no idea how payments are authorized.

latchkey 5y ago

I'd prefer we just phase out MasterCard. I went to a restaurant the other day. QR code on the receipt. Scan that and it opens up Toast. Toast then connects to Apple Pay, which then connects to my credit card. No less than 3 middlemen to pay the restaurant, is absurd. QRCode -> Wallet on my phone holding stablecoin on a L2 like polygon (which is collecting APY through DeFi) -> Restaurant

numbsafari 5y ago
Hello Strawman. Does anyone actually pay the way you described? Honestly? I either swipe my card or hand it to them to do it for me and call it a day. I don't have to worry about some cryptojockey screwing up a DeFi contract scheme and all my money being stolen in a non-FDIC insured account. I have fraud protections against card theft. It ain't perfect, but it's not the electronic equivalent of walking around with me lucky charms in my fanny pack, ripe for the mugging, either.
larrybud 5y ago
While your point is valid regarding a crazy number of middlemen, I've also paid via the QR code on the receipt at a number of restaurants recently and I love it! No need to flag down a server when it's time to pay; I just scan it on my phone, click on apple pay, enter the tip, and I'm done!
- latchkey 5y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I love it too. I didn't suggest getting rid of the QR code, just the backend flow of middlemen taking fees from the restaurant.
latchkey 5y ago
I got downvoted, yet we end up with things like this: https://twitter.com/postcultrev/status/1428584131835748359 https://twitter.com/postcultrev/status/1428584131835748359

KingMachiavelli 5y ago

Even in the US, I can't remember when I last had to use the magstrip. [1] I could probabbly degauss the magnetic strip and not have any issues. If you have a chip debit card that you never use... it probably isn't a bad idea to make the card chip only. What I actually want is a specific bank alert if the card is used without the chip. Currently I just make any transaction over $20 send an email. [1] I guess at resturants where they actually take the card for a minute, I don't know if it's chip or magstrip transaction.

akmarinov 5y ago

I’m from Europe and honestly I’ve never used a magnetic strip to pay with a card. Looks really cool though.

skookum 5y ago
If you think the magnetic strip looks cool, wait until you see a credit card imprinter!

leotravis10 5y ago

> Prepaid cards in the U.S. and Canada are currently exempt from this change. I'm telling you all, prepaid cards are a scam. Why? One of the reasons besides massive fees and shady tactics for most are because they're so far behind the times. Most don't even have a chip for example. Look at a Netspend card (using it as a prime example) and compare it to any bank card today.

champtar 5y ago

Do they mandate chip + pin yet ? Some years ago I got a Credit Card in the USA with chip but without pin, thus unusable in some places in Europe.

fny 5y ago

What a sad day. Swipes were far more user friendly and the failure rate with reading these chips is unreal. Here's to hoping the next "upgrade" isn't a nightmare.

kube-system 5y ago
Contactless works pretty well in my experience and doesn’t put any physical wear on the card. There’s a couple big retailers still holding out, but most places I go seem to have it enabled these days.
grecy 5y ago
I've been exclusively using the chip in my Credit and Debit Cards for at least a decade - every transaction works, every time for the life of the card. I've used them from Botswana to Egypt to Morocco to Canada through Central and South America and Australia. They work perfectly.
deepspace 5y ago
What country are you in? In the past 10 or so years, I have NEVER had a failure with a Chip-and-Pin transaction or a contactless transaction in Canada.
PostThisTooFast 5y ago
OK Gramps.
pitterpatter 5y ago
How so? There's no swipe motion you need to get right; just slide in the card and done?
herbst 5y ago
The only bottleneck I am aware of are the sometimes way to slow internet connections these terminals use. My cards just work

Johnny555 5y ago

I use my credit card at brick and mortar merchants less and less -- even my local gas station accepts Android/Apple Pay (and presumably contactless card taps, but I couldn't get it to work with my card). Even the cafe I frequent switched to readers (I think they were Square) associated with an iPad so I add a tip and pay with my phone at the table. But what are they doing to secure online payments? Last time my card number was stolen, all of the fradulent charges were at online merchants.

peteretep 5y ago
> what are they doing to secure online payments? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure
tpetry 5y ago
Online transactions can be secured by solutions like 3D Secure. In the european union for european countries such solutions are already required for dome transactions. But US companies hesitate to enforce them as they make buying less convenient but much more secure. Or the CCV printed at the back of a credit card, this is impossible for bank cards in europe. But mastercard and visa prefer the convenient approach. It would be a nice if one of the new fintech startups added the option in the account settings to enforce 3D Secure for all online transactions.

aimor 5y ago

This might sound like a stretch, but I wish I could just pay without having my phone or card or cash or anything else on me. In general I'm growing weary of authentication hell, but specifically with how it all seems to come back to requiring my phone. I really wouldn't mind just keying in my account number and pin to make a payment, but of course that's just username + password and I suppose unacceptably risky. The solution I expect is for Amazon to recognized my face and bill me.

basicplus2 5y ago
Get one of these.. halo ring https://www.bankwest.com.au/personal/ways-to-pay/bankwest-halo https://www.bankwest.com.au/personal/ways-to-pay/bankwest-ha...
deelowe 5y ago
> The solution I expect is for Amazon to recognized my face and bill me. I'm just going to go live in the woods. We grown way too comfortable as a society.
avnigo 5y ago
Amazon wants to scan your palm. https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/02/amazon-credit-palm-biometrics/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/02/amazon-credit-palm-biometr...

PostThisTooFast 5y ago

I love how these assholes are patting themselves on the back for being 20 years behind the rest of the industrialized world. Fuck you, BastarCard.

fortylove 5y ago

Does this mean that we can finally have smaller credit cards, if they only need to be big enough to hold the chip? (Assuming payment slots can somehow handle multiple card sizes, eventually...)

Wildgoose 5y ago
I have a McLear Ring which embeds the contactless chip in a ceramic ring I wear on my little finger. No need to mess about fishing a card out of your pocket or wallet, it's just there. It comes with its own bank account which you simply top up. Works really well. https://mclear.com https://mclear.com

yarcob 5y ago

If you want to do it faster, you need government regulation. Magnetic stripes have been phased out in the EU for a couple of years. And additionally online card payments all require 2FA in EU. As a result, there's barely any credit card fraud in Europe. You can't expect the industry to invest in infrastructure if dealing with fraud is cheaper in the short term. You need to force them.

deelowe 5y ago
Government regulation is what's pushing it already. Credit card companies are liable for fraud. Mag stripe has become extremely insecure now that just about anyone can build a reader. So the CC companies are moving to chip and rfid based systems. The bad news is that these new systems are considered so secure that the CC companies have much more limited liability. So that's likely to be a problem eventually.

kalleboo 5y ago

One thing I've been curious about is how long have ATMs been using chip readers? Do they use NFC readers now? The ATMs I've used all still pull they card in and dispense it, so you can't really see what technology they're using internally.

avnigo 5y ago

> The arrival of the magnetic stripe changed all that [...] offering more security... Is this what we'd call security through obscurity? I was under the impression that data on magnetic stripe was not encrypted.

metafunctor 5y ago

My MasterCard even has the raised numbers, and an unfilled spot for my signature. I remember a long time ago, some places still used a manual contraption to impress the digits on carbon copy paper. I wonder why they've retained that unused ability for decades. Not that it matters much. I've made payments with almost 100% Apple Pay for years — a lot of the time I don't even carry the physical card with me.