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YouTube suspends Rand Paul over a video disputing the effectiveness of masks

90 points by jimmy2020 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
joemazerino 5y ago
Use Telegram, Bitchute and Rumble.
- atatatat 5y ago
  Use your own personal blog, Matrix rooms, IRC/XMPP
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    Use a numbers station and shortwave.
    - troyvit 5y ago
      Use a typewriter, paper and stamps.
      - cbozeman 5y ago
        Use your own wood, blanket, and smoke.
        ribble 5y ago
        -chuckle!- turns out my gut instinct was right all along. hackernews is run by liberal fucktards. the original person who started this thread is now banned for suggesting websites that don't censor their users in an effort to spread the corporate liberal nazi agenda.
- Falandafa2021 5y ago
  You have been banned from hackernews for spreading misinformation spewing sites.
opwieurposiu 5y ago
Rand's point was that N95 masks are effective. Random bits of cloth are markedly less effective.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Except he did not say that at all in the video that was taken down. He mentions n95 in passing later, but does not make the distinction that n95 masks do work and cloth masks don't. (which is also dubious because some protection is better than no protection and cloth masks do stop large particles that can contain coronavirus).
nradov 5y ago
The actual science on the effectiveness of masks is mixed. While they can reduce the risks of viral transmission in certain limited circumstances there's no scientific consensus on masks as a widespread public health measure. If anyone believes the science is settled then please read this article. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/93803 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/93803 While Google (YouTube) is a private company and can censor whatever they want for any reason (or no reason at all) it is highly concerning that their near monopoly status gives them the power to shut down public debate. Even if you think Sen. Paul is wrong on this particular issue, how will you feel when YouTube decides to censor a political viewpoint that you support?
- skrowl 5y ago
  Rand is also a doctor and mentions peer-reviewed studies in the video in question. It's not a lunatic ranting point of view. Pick up a history book. When has the side that's for censorship of opposing views and burning books EVER been the good guys? YouTube is in the wrong here.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    Rand may be a doctor (opthalmologist). But he is a politician first and foremost. He has consistently played semantics throughout the pandemic to try and win political points. In this case, he is arguing that cloth masks don't work. If he wasn't playing politics, his argument would be, "we need to get n95 masks into the hands of the public". But he is pretending that option doesn't exist and keeps arguing that "masks don't work" just to contradict public health officials.
    - marcusverus 5y ago
      This is a cynical take. Rand Paul is a libertarian-leaning conservative who is deeply concerned with government overreach. It makes perfect sense that he would criticize the effectiveness of masks in the context of mask mandates, none of which (to my knowledge) require n95 masks. The only thing worse than government overreach is government overreach that doesn't serve its stated purpose.
didjathinkmess 5y ago
The video was censored because Paul states cloth masks are worse than N95 masks for infection. Which is scientifically accurate as far as I know. So it's gotten a significant step worse. It has gone from "do not question the science" to simply "do not question".
- squarefoot 5y ago
  > The video was censored because Paul states cloth masks are worse than N95 masks for infection. Which is scientifically accurate as far as I know. I tend to agree, although I'm far from being a conservative. It is probably also safe to assume that YouTube didn't do their homework when taking him down, just like they did so many times honoring illegitimate DMCA takedown requests. Bias or not, YouTube just sucks.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Firstly, I don't think the video should have been taken down. But, that is definitely not what Rand says in his original video. I cant find any mention of n95 at all, in fact. He is being disingenuous by making that clear distinction in his follow up complaint video. He said in his original video that we were all wasting our time because most of the masks you buy over the counter are useless. He then jumped on to his other complaints about Fauci. If he was trying to make the distinction of n95, he should have said so and said that we need to be using them instead. It seems to me a bad faith effort to cloud the message of mask wearing when we need to be reinforcing it and educating the public to get n95 masks. edit: I watched his original video a bit closer. He does mention n95, but in a different context and not comparing the two to say that we should use n95.
dolni 5y ago
Is there a mirror of the video anywhere? I'd be interested in hearing exactly what was said.
feoren 5y ago
Rand Paul is one of the staunchest libertarians in federal office. If there's any single deeply held belief that he has, it's that profit-seeking corporations should be able to do absolutely anything they want to anyone, and damn the consequences. So I don't feel bad that a corporation decided to do whatever they hell they wanted and suspended him. It feels a little like a "I didn't think the leopards would eat my face!" situation. This schadenfreude is independent of whether I actually agree with YouTube's choice in this particular video.
- cowvin 5y ago
  I think you're confusing Rand Paul with his father Ron Paul. Ron Paul was a very politically consistent libertarian. Rand Paul, not so much. https://www.ontheissues.org/OTI_Ron_Rand.htm https://www.ontheissues.org/OTI_Ron_Rand.htm
- jdhn 5y ago
  I believe Rand came out and said that while he disagreed with Youtube's decision, it's their right as a private corporation to do so.
Panther34543 5y ago
What happened to the other thread? There was a thread with way more comments and more points, and it just disappeared from the front page.
- gus_massa 5y ago
  Probably https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28142993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28142993 (77 points | 2 hours ago | 151 comments) My guess is that it's flagged by users. You can send an email to the mods hn@ycombinator.com to ask for more details. Perhaps they decide to disable the flags in this case.
  - Panther34543 5y ago
    It looks like the same thing has now occurred to this thread as well.
    - adevx 5y ago
      This is actually pretty similar to the censorship being discussed here. If a thread, especially around these topics doesn't go as the moderators please, it is simply shadowbanned.
      - 1123581321 5y ago
        It’s happening due to flags from users with a lot of karma, not moderator action.
        adevx 5y ago
        Thanks, didn't know that.
        unanswered 5y ago
        This is a pointless and politically motivated distinction though. The moderators manually protect controversial articles with the correct political slant. Failing to act is entirely equivalent in this case.
kaminar 5y ago
Nobody who wears n95 masks in public wears then correctly...so argument lost. It's a huge scam and you are all paying the price.
lodi 5y ago
I don't know what clip they're referring to--this is exactly why this kind of censorship is a problem--but I let the Youtube algorithm do its thing the other day and it took me through several hours of various Rand Paul town halls, senate speeches, and other presentations. So I've seen a solid 4-5h of him talking on this topic. His actual views on this are far more nuanced and intelligent than the topic title suggests. He's not against masking, he's against mask mandates. From what I understand, the efficacy of mask mandates, not masks themselves, is in fact scientifically disputed. If you think that's a logical contradiction; it's not. For example if people think that cloth masking is highly effective, when in fact it's only slightly effective, they may forgo actually effective solutions like vaccination. --- Furthermore, society must balance measures to address Covid against other health-related and non-health-related concerns. Lockdowns slow the spread of infectious disease, but also cause death/suffering elsewhere through postponed surgeries, increased addiction/suicide, etc. We have to decide which risk to prioritize based on societal values. And by "we", I especially mean the senators/congressmen/ministers/etc to which we've delegated our political power. Therefore it's doubly stupid of Youtube to censor a current member of the Senate, of the very country Youtube is headquartered in, when he's acting in official capacity, giving an interview on a cable TV news channel. Just incredible.

90 points by jimmy2020 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

joemazerino 5y ago

Use Telegram, Bitchute and Rumble.

atatatat 5y ago
Use your own personal blog, Matrix rooms, IRC/XMPP
- tablespoon 5y ago
  Use a numbers station and shortwave.
  - troyvit 5y ago
    Use a typewriter, paper and stamps.
    - cbozeman 5y ago
      Use your own wood, blanket, and smoke.
      - ribble 5y ago
        -chuckle!- turns out my gut instinct was right all along. hackernews is run by liberal fucktards. the original person who started this thread is now banned for suggesting websites that don't censor their users in an effort to spread the corporate liberal nazi agenda.
Falandafa2021 5y ago
You have been banned from hackernews for spreading misinformation spewing sites.

opwieurposiu 5y ago

Rand's point was that N95 masks are effective. Random bits of cloth are markedly less effective.

jjeaff 5y ago
Except he did not say that at all in the video that was taken down. He mentions n95 in passing later, but does not make the distinction that n95 masks do work and cloth masks don't. (which is also dubious because some protection is better than no protection and cloth masks do stop large particles that can contain coronavirus).

nradov 5y ago

The actual science on the effectiveness of masks is mixed. While they can reduce the risks of viral transmission in certain limited circumstances there's no scientific consensus on masks as a widespread public health measure. If anyone believes the science is settled then please read this article. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/93803 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/93803 While Google (YouTube) is a private company and can censor whatever they want for any reason (or no reason at all) it is highly concerning that their near monopoly status gives them the power to shut down public debate. Even if you think Sen. Paul is wrong on this particular issue, how will you feel when YouTube decides to censor a political viewpoint that you support?

skrowl 5y ago
Rand is also a doctor and mentions peer-reviewed studies in the video in question. It's not a lunatic ranting point of view. Pick up a history book. When has the side that's for censorship of opposing views and burning books EVER been the good guys? YouTube is in the wrong here.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Rand may be a doctor (opthalmologist). But he is a politician first and foremost. He has consistently played semantics throughout the pandemic to try and win political points. In this case, he is arguing that cloth masks don't work. If he wasn't playing politics, his argument would be, "we need to get n95 masks into the hands of the public". But he is pretending that option doesn't exist and keeps arguing that "masks don't work" just to contradict public health officials.
  - marcusverus 5y ago
    This is a cynical take. Rand Paul is a libertarian-leaning conservative who is deeply concerned with government overreach. It makes perfect sense that he would criticize the effectiveness of masks in the context of mask mandates, none of which (to my knowledge) require n95 masks. The only thing worse than government overreach is government overreach that doesn't serve its stated purpose.

didjathinkmess 5y ago

The video was censored because Paul states cloth masks are worse than N95 masks for infection. Which is scientifically accurate as far as I know. So it's gotten a significant step worse. It has gone from "do not question the science" to simply "do not question".

squarefoot 5y ago
> The video was censored because Paul states cloth masks are worse than N95 masks for infection. Which is scientifically accurate as far as I know. I tend to agree, although I'm far from being a conservative. It is probably also safe to assume that YouTube didn't do their homework when taking him down, just like they did so many times honoring illegitimate DMCA takedown requests. Bias or not, YouTube just sucks.
jjeaff 5y ago
Firstly, I don't think the video should have been taken down. But, that is definitely not what Rand says in his original video. I cant find any mention of n95 at all, in fact. He is being disingenuous by making that clear distinction in his follow up complaint video. He said in his original video that we were all wasting our time because most of the masks you buy over the counter are useless. He then jumped on to his other complaints about Fauci. If he was trying to make the distinction of n95, he should have said so and said that we need to be using them instead. It seems to me a bad faith effort to cloud the message of mask wearing when we need to be reinforcing it and educating the public to get n95 masks. edit: I watched his original video a bit closer. He does mention n95, but in a different context and not comparing the two to say that we should use n95.

dolni 5y ago

Is there a mirror of the video anywhere? I'd be interested in hearing exactly what was said.

feoren 5y ago

Rand Paul is one of the staunchest libertarians in federal office. If there's any single deeply held belief that he has, it's that profit-seeking corporations should be able to do absolutely anything they want to anyone, and damn the consequences. So I don't feel bad that a corporation decided to do whatever they hell they wanted and suspended him. It feels a little like a "I didn't think the leopards would eat my face!" situation. This schadenfreude is independent of whether I actually agree with YouTube's choice in this particular video.

cowvin 5y ago
I think you're confusing Rand Paul with his father Ron Paul. Ron Paul was a very politically consistent libertarian. Rand Paul, not so much. https://www.ontheissues.org/OTI_Ron_Rand.htm https://www.ontheissues.org/OTI_Ron_Rand.htm
jdhn 5y ago
I believe Rand came out and said that while he disagreed with Youtube's decision, it's their right as a private corporation to do so.

Panther34543 5y ago

What happened to the other thread? There was a thread with way more comments and more points, and it just disappeared from the front page.

gus_massa 5y ago
Probably https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28142993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28142993 (77 points | 2 hours ago | 151 comments) My guess is that it's flagged by users. You can send an email to the mods hn@ycombinator.com to ask for more details. Perhaps they decide to disable the flags in this case.
- Panther34543 5y ago
  It looks like the same thing has now occurred to this thread as well.
  - adevx 5y ago
    This is actually pretty similar to the censorship being discussed here. If a thread, especially around these topics doesn't go as the moderators please, it is simply shadowbanned.
    - 1123581321 5y ago
      It’s happening due to flags from users with a lot of karma, not moderator action.
      - adevx 5y ago
        Thanks, didn't know that.
      - unanswered 5y ago
        This is a pointless and politically motivated distinction though. The moderators manually protect controversial articles with the correct political slant. Failing to act is entirely equivalent in this case.

kaminar 5y ago

Nobody who wears n95 masks in public wears then correctly...so argument lost. It's a huge scam and you are all paying the price.

lodi 5y ago

I don't know what clip they're referring to--this is exactly why this kind of censorship is a problem--but I let the Youtube algorithm do its thing the other day and it took me through several hours of various Rand Paul town halls, senate speeches, and other presentations. So I've seen a solid 4-5h of him talking on this topic. His actual views on this are far more nuanced and intelligent than the topic title suggests. He's not against masking, he's against mask mandates. From what I understand, the efficacy of mask mandates, not masks themselves, is in fact scientifically disputed. If you think that's a logical contradiction; it's not. For example if people think that cloth masking is highly effective, when in fact it's only slightly effective, they may forgo actually effective solutions like vaccination. --- Furthermore, society must balance measures to address Covid against other health-related and non-health-related concerns. Lockdowns slow the spread of infectious disease, but also cause death/suffering elsewhere through postponed surgeries, increased addiction/suicide, etc. We have to decide which risk to prioritize based on societal values. And by "we", I especially mean the senators/congressmen/ministers/etc to which we've delegated our political power. Therefore it's doubly stupid of Youtube to censor a current member of the Senate, of the very country Youtube is headquartered in, when he's acting in official capacity, giving an interview on a cable TV news channel. Just incredible.