29 ms·

Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

234 points by Flatcircle 5y ago

gogopuppygogo 5y ago
Kevin Paffrath has some ideas for solving this. The Democratic Party seems bent on preventing him from having a fair shot.
- tigertigerbb 5y ago
  Looking at his website: "We will immediately house the unhoused. It’s simple. No house? We will provide a roof over their head." Well, that was easy. Obviously there are homeless and there are homeless. Looking back in time, any plan that doesn't involve being mean to some of them won't work.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    Reminiscent of Monty Python's 'How to do it' sketch...'Playing the flute, well you just blow through here and move your fingers up and down, that's it really.'
  - Smoofer 5y ago
    Re: " Looking back in time, any plan that doesn't involve being mean to some of them won't work.", History and Public Policy researchers at UCLA seem to disagree with you: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/history-homelessness-new-approaches-los-angeles https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/history-homelessness-new-...
  - gogopuppygogo 5y ago
    From his website: “ The National Guard will be tasked with compassionately serving our homeless community during the first 60 days of Kevin Paffrath’s administration. Day 1, construction will also begin on 80, new Emergency Facilities. After 30 days, our transition to housing begins. Modern Emergency Facilities will include: mental-health facilities, detox facilities, educational facilities, canteens, and provide medical support for ALL Californian’s without housing. Then, we have to also solve the reasons that CAUSE homelessness. ”
- baby 5y ago
  The alternative is the Trump party?
  - benjohnson 5y ago
    No - on a local level, people of goodwill from both parties can do meaningful good for all our citizens. This doesn't have to be a R vs D issue.
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    Trump isn't running for CA gov, not sure what you're referencing.
    - anigbrowl 5y ago
      baby is referencing the party headed by Trump, that seems pretty obvious.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  I downvoted because this reeks of astroturfing. The candidate in question seems not to be serious (based on the wildly impractical/implausible policy proposals) and I really wonder if this run is just a stunt to promote his youtube channel. Novelty candidates are often publicity seekers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Paffrath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Paffrath I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps you'd care to explain how you see his National Guard deployment or other proposals working.
  - gogopuppygogo 5y ago
    Biden is sending a “task force” into Chicago to curb crime: https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-chicago-violence-strike-force https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-chicago-violence-strike-for... Why can’t the governor send in the national guard to build housing for the needy?
- void_mint 5y ago
  > Kevin Paffrath (born 1992, also known as Meet Kevin),[2] is an American YouTuber, landlord, and real estate broker.[3][4][5] When your #1 qualification is YouTuber, you probably ahve no businesses holding public office.
  - SrslyJosh 5y ago
    > landlord, and real estate broker That's a double dose of "fuck no"
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    Just the modern version of actor and bodybuilder...
  - gogopuppygogo 5y ago
    He knows how to engage people and run a profitable business. I know, YC still has a large audience in the Bay Area. Many of those folks live (or have lived) in San Francisco. A city that has enjoyed the fruits of their successful policies regarding business. Policies that continue pushing people with jobs away while attracting homeless folks. Not to mention electing Chesa Boudin, a district attorney literally trained by a failed socialist. California needs help from someone who isn’t a career politician/socialist IMHO.
Causality1 5y ago
Todd said she had gone to the overpass to distribute sandwiches, potato chips and water to people living at the freeway encampment. Todd’s lawsuit accuses the city of allowing the encampment at the 101 overpass on Gower to remain for a “substantial amount of time,” Why is she distributing supplies to a group of people she wants the city to throw out?
- whymauri 5y ago
  >Why is she distributing supplies to a group of people she wants the city to throw out? Article is paywalled, but presumably she doesn't want them thrown out. There are, in fact, other solutions to homeless encampments...
  - tigertigerbb 5y ago
    > There are, in fact, other solutions to homeless encampments... Seriously, every time I read something like this I wish I was truly rich. I'd hand whymauri a billion dollars and let them loose on the homeless problem. The postmortem on the crash 'n burn would be a priceless thing to listen to down at the men's club.
  - rhacker 5y ago
    I seriously don't know what the solution is. Enlighten us?
    - oblio 5y ago
      Social housing.
    - xeromal 5y ago
      This is just a personal take but * House the ones that are functional/capable of taking care of themselves to an extent * Mandatory rehab for the ones are strung out pm debilitating opiates * Asylum for the ones are mentally disabled.
      - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
encryptluks2 5y ago
With millions facing eviction, it is really sad that many people still see the homeless as needing drug counseling to fix their homelessness. It couldn't be that the cost of housing has skyrocketed and now in many places it costs upwards of $1500 a month for rent in a small apartment and the punishment for losing a job and falling behind on debt is having to pay even more for rent or just not being able to have a safe place to live. Makes you wonder if drugs is the cause of homelessness or if the way people treat those facing economic hardships often results in drug usage.
- dhbanes 5y ago
  Come to LA and talk to the people who live in these encampments. It will become very obvious to you that these aren't people who were living in a 2 bedroom apartment a couple months ago and just couldn't swing the rent.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    Yeah, those people are mostly still inc ars or on sofas. Once someone is down to being in a tent they've usually been homeless for a while.
- aeternum 5y ago
  It's likely there is not just a single factor. Drugs, evictions, mental illness, housing supply are all factors. Humans love to simplify to fit a narrative but that is rarely the case in practice.
kazinator 5y ago
> Because of the encampment, you couldn’t walk on the sidewalk. You had to walk on the street,” she said. Does not logically follow. LA is a big place; you can choose to walk completely elsewhere, unless someone is telling you to go the unsafe route at gunpoint. > she and another person, a homeless man with whom she was walking So she is knows the blockaders. Effectively, her friends blocked the sidewalk, leading to the alleged problem and incident. Wow, good friggin' luck with the suit, lady.
dyingkneepad 5y ago
As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obviously missing some important detail here. Of course I understand some drug addicts may not want a job or simply know they can't last more than a few days in one, but I would imagine a lot of these homeless people I see on the streets would actually like to have an income and be able to live anywhere that's not the streets. How do you reconcile that with the fact that there are so many simple jobs with open positions everywhere? This is not supposed to be a sarcastic or politically loaded question. Where I come from, jobs are simply unavailable and at the moment you advertise it, even if it's just flipping burgers, there are lines and lines of people competing for it. I fail to understand why the US is so different. Anybody would please be able to point me at what I'm missing? Edit: also, people who can't afford housing usually live with their families for a long time (or the whole life). Tiny houses with entire generations of families living in it are common. I guess this is still miles better than living in the streets.
- leetrout 5y ago
  You're seeing second and third order effects of our poor healthcare system. Especially the complete lack of appropriate mental health.
- belval 5y ago
  The base issue is usually mental illness worsened by substance abuse, without a strong social net and with readily available street drugs these people are pretty much unfit for any kind of work.
  - goshx 5y ago
    This has been what I've seen personally volunteering at a homeless outreach. Mental illness seems to be the major factor.
1270018080 5y ago
Many Californians are struggling with the ultimate internal battle: Posturing about caring for the homeless while doing everything in their power to prevent housing from getting built. Because density "hurts the vibe of the neighborhood." Outsiders make fun of California for being overly progressive, but it's entirely surface level. Most are conservative beyond performative actions.
- Fellshard 5y ago
  The issue isn't solely lack of housing.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    Abundant housing is a necessary condition for solving homelessness.
    - thepasswordis 5y ago
      Have you spent much time working with the homeless?
      - jeffbee 5y ago
        Yes, I worked to create the most recent census of homelessness in my county. That's why I am aware of the fact that an overwhelming supermajority of current homeless express a wish to live in independent, affordable rental homes, like the rest of us. But you don't have to personally conduct the census to know this; you can just go read the results.
    - rtkwe 5y ago
      It'd help with the working homeless but you need way more than just cheap housing to help all types of homeless people.
    - coding123 5y ago
      There is also an abundant number of second houses that people own that are not rented that could house every single homeless person 25 to 40 times over.
jeffbee 5y ago
Governments in California are immune from liability for failure to enact or enforce any law, so good luck.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- travoc 5y ago
  “It is a desperate man who engages his own government in a legal dispute.” -Unknown
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    What other choice do they have?
    - GaryTang 5y ago
      The only choice they have is to move. If your city no longer acknowledges you, the costs of moving are small in comparison
- travismark 5y ago
  interesting, thanks. for related reference, this year in Minneapolis some residents sued their city and showed that it had too few police officers. The ratio of police officers to residents is right there in the charter. A county judge ruled for the plaintiffs last month https://kstp.com/news/hennepin-county-rules-minneapolis-must-hire-more-police-officers-to-abide-by-city-charter-writ-of-mandamus/6159429/ https://kstp.com/news/hennepin-county-rules-minneapolis-must...
Fellshard 5y ago
Meta: Do not use single-factor analysis when examining the homelessness problem. It will get you into trouble every time.
- RealityVoid 5y ago
  I think that stands for all but the most trivial social problems.
- throwhands77 5y ago
  And please don't add confusion to muddy the water when otherwise simple solutions exist.
vmception 5y ago
Larry Elder has a real chance of winning the Governor recall election at this point. I was going to ignore it as just opposition party flailings, but now that the opportunity is there its not so far fetched.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  That is true, little as I like him. As of yesterday polling for the recall was 46% for-48% against, which is tight enough to make things very uncertain. Not sure why you're being downvoted for factual statements, Elder is the leading Republican candidate at present and only a plurality is required in the event that the recall vote passes. California coul din theory be governed by someone who only had the support of 20% of the voters.
standardUser 5y ago
I've almost been hit by cars in SF for the exact same reason. Cities need to designate places for encampments to stop them from blocking sidewalks or disrupting residential areas. And they need to rapidly remove any that do block public access or disrupt residences.
- slickrick216 5y ago
  They have they’re called homeless shelters. Cities shouldn’t actively endorse camping by marking areas and if you think they should would you like to volunteer the streets outside and surrounding your house. Homeless people should be interviewed and those with mental illnesses treated by the state as they are objectively sick people in need of help. Homeless people under 18 should be taken into care. Homeless people over 65 showing senile ageing conditions should be asked if they want to go into retirement homes. Outside of this homeless people should be treated with decency and respect as adults capable of full agency. They should face the consequences of their disregard of the rules. Punishments should be scaled but society should not feel sorry for drug addicted homeless people and actively enable them to keep ruining theres and others lives. This provides an easy scapegoat for homeless people who have nothing wrong with them.
  - KyleJune 5y ago
    I agreed with your first 2 paragraphs but for the last one, I think we should be treating addiction as a mental illness. Instead of just locking them up in jail or leaving them on the streets, we should be getting them help.
    - slickrick216 5y ago
      That’s fair I can see the argument but I think we all have the ability to be addicted to things regardless of your mental health.
      - pas 5y ago
        The ability? Sure but people with enough real substance in their lives have a much much greater motivation to manage their drug consumption. When you don't have much to lose, it becomes easy to don't give a fuck about the eventual problems of comedown, showing up to work, etc. And this uncaring aimlessness, short-term thinking is itself a sign of mental health problems. (Depression.)
legitster 5y ago
This is becoming such a frustrating issue. As an advocate of public spaces and parks, it's kind of heartbreaking that maybe 1/3 of public spaces in our town are no longer usable for all - they have more or less become private spaces for the homeless. I don't have much respect for communities that solve the issue by just "kicking them out" and passing the problem onto others, but it is almost becoming unacceptably common in America. It's a pity - this used to be a problem that was mostly solved by the private market. The rise of homelessness is almost equal to the decline of single occupancy housing (flophouses, chicken wire hotels, etc). But in our quest to eliminate slums and "bad neighborhoods" we ended up just spreading them across cities.
- foxpurple 5y ago
  IMO the city should provide enough homeless shelters for everyone and then just make homelessness illegal. So if you are found sleeping in a tent you get referred to the nearest shelter and if you refuse you get arrested. We can not allow homelessness to exist because it makes public spaces unsafe like you mention. Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions.
  - danans 5y ago
    > Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions. They do, and this is sometimes why homeless people avoid the shelters. You cannot hold someone in a shelter against their will.
    - crooked-v 5y ago
      Also, more than a few of those chronic drug addictions are self-medicating for other conditions that are only tangential to housing itself and aren't going to get any better if you take the drugs away without offering other support.
    - foxpurple 5y ago
      That’s why my suggestion is to offer them the choice to willingly use a shelter or go to jail. Homelessness and drug abuse can not be allowed to exist to keep public spaces safe.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ffggvv 5y ago
non paywall https://ktla.com/news/local-news/woman-struck-by-car-on-street-where-tents-were-blocking-sidewalk-is-suing-l-a/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/woman-struck-by-car-on-stre...
NonContro 5y ago
If you want to solve homelessness in the USA, then properly enforce border security of the country (including walls) and halt the refugee intake. The same low-income housing and entry-level work which is needed for homeless americans is being taken up by these immigrants. In my homeland of Ukraine, incomes are a fraction of the USA but still there is no homelessness because the country's population is not growing due to mass immigration, and so the existing housing stock is sufficient to cover everyone's needs.
austincheney 5y ago
None of this makes sense to me. In Fort Worth it is a misdemeanor to panhandle or sleep in a public space without a permit. As a result I almost never see homeless people, even downtown. Homeless encampments certainly don’t exist or if they do they are places far away from residences or roads. I know there are numbers indicating there are homeless about though, so they just aren’t visible in areas where people would walk, drive, or sightsee. This is the 12th largest city in the US. On the other hand look to our neighbor to the south, Austin which is almost numerically identical. They appear to have homeless people everywhere that non homeless walk and do business. The difference is striking. I don’t understand why any city would allow homeless to congregate like this outside managed care.
- effingwewt 5y ago
  The law, in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets and to steal bread-the rich as well as the poor.
jdalgetty 5y ago
She'll get a nice settlement!
throwhome2 5y ago
Nobody wants to admit this, but probably more so here on HN and specially those who will downvote this reply to oblivion and have 10k+ karma points. They will find any excuse to sidestep this as a legitimate issue, here are some to watch out for: a. other countries have a worse homeless problem b. it's because we closed mental health institutions in the 80s c. I was homeless you don't know what you're talking about d. war on drugs is the cause e. you shouldn't judge others maybe they chose this... the list goes on and on and I'm not going to respond to any of them here, just something to be on the look out for when this topic comes up. In the US people don't find the same solidarity with their fellow citizens unless you belong to the same club or same sociopolitical spectrum you basically think you're better than everyone else and there is a deep rooted superiority complex among people here. This is in stark contrast to countries even in Europe including Italy and others where there is a strong sense of community and for example Italianess that supersedes petty political and idealogical beliefs that many in the US cling to almost religiously. I don't think Americans want to admit this specially the closer to the coastal cities you get the less sense of solidarity with fellow citizens and belongingness prevails rather than more community driven even religious South.
keewee7 5y ago
Why do homeless people in the US concentrate in a few big cities with good weather? In Denmark there are fewer of them and they are more spread out and you can also find them in rural areas.
- imbnwa 5y ago
  Those few big cities have lax homelessness enforcement. Chicago used to have a massive homeless problem up into the 90s (homeless died in the winter all the time), particularly underneath the freeways and Wacker Drive downtown, then they practically made it illegal and fenced up those spaces.
- TMWNN 5y ago
  As imbnwa said, it's lack of enforcement. Ignore those who say that it's good weather. San Diego has homeless but not nearly as many as San Francisco, despite San Diego having probably the best weather in the US. San Francisco, however, has many more services for the homeless than San Diego.
  - pandaman 5y ago
    Or Austin, which has horrible weather but its mayor just allows "city camping".
- __app_dev__ 5y ago
  Also, many cities put Homeless on a one-way bus to San Francisco and other "homeless friendly" cities. I'm 42 and I recall Florida doing this over 20 years ago when I was in High School. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/... For many years I lived in Beverly Hills (near Los Angeles). They have very few homeless so it's nice but the rest of LA (Los Angeles) is a disaster right now. It's not just cities with Good Weather though because Seattle has one of the worst homeless problems. Although I don't have any stats it feels like it's mostly just a West Coast problem as I never hear about this from the middle of America or large East Coast Cities.
unthethered 5y ago
This morning there was a tent on the 2/Santa Monica 101 off-ramp not just taking up the entire sidewalk but IN the street. I had to swerve to not hit it.
balozi 5y ago
L.A., like most major US cities, does not harbor slums similar to those found abutted to some other major cities around the world. The growth of informal housing arrangements within public spaces, a la L.A. homeless encampments, maybe a reflection of this. Its possible that slums do indeed play a vital role in urban housing? Since slums have always been viewed a third-world thing, western policy makers may have neglect paying them due consideration. Where Are The World’s Worst Slums? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q67gldZ1P_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q67gldZ1P_8
literallyaduck 5y ago
Side walks aren't for camps. With mental health incarceration being voluntary in many states the segment of mentally ill homeless will always remain. Even offering the nicest accommodations for all other segments you still have a big problem.
watertom 5y ago
A lot of people who are homeless have mental health issues and are homeless due to those issues, it's almost like they need to be cared for in a mental health environment because being homeless isn't actually their problem. A lot of people who are homeless have substance abuse issues, and are homeless due the those issues, it's almost like they need to be cared for in a substance abuse program because being homeless isn't actually their problem. Once we whittle away the people who have issues that cause their homelessness other than just being homeless we can get to the people, who are either unemployed, under employed, or so debt ridden that they can't find a place to live. This may be a coarse filter, but IMHO it's better than just shoving people into a "living space" and being done.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  The programs you suggest should treat these individuals DO exist. Typically the people afflicted with addiction and/or mental health issues refuse treatment. I have seen well intentioned social workers walking through these tents cities trying to bring people in for treatment. They do not want to go. Should we force people into facilities they cannot leave so that they can be treated? It is a similar story for homeless shelters. The issue isn't the availability of beds - it is that the homeless do not want to stay in the shelter.
kaminar 5y ago
Who thinks Nancy Pelosi can solve this problem?

234 points by Flatcircle 5y ago

Kevin Paffrath has some ideas for solving this. The Democratic Party seems bent on preventing him from having a fair shot.

tigertigerbb 5y ago
Looking at his website: "We will immediately house the unhoused. It’s simple. No house? We will provide a roof over their head." Well, that was easy. Obviously there are homeless and there are homeless. Looking back in time, any plan that doesn't involve being mean to some of them won't work.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  Reminiscent of Monty Python's 'How to do it' sketch...'Playing the flute, well you just blow through here and move your fingers up and down, that's it really.'
- Smoofer 5y ago
  Re: " Looking back in time, any plan that doesn't involve being mean to some of them won't work.", History and Public Policy researchers at UCLA seem to disagree with you: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/history-homelessness-new-approaches-los-angeles https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/history-homelessness-new-...
- gogopuppygogo 5y ago
  From his website: “ The National Guard will be tasked with compassionately serving our homeless community during the first 60 days of Kevin Paffrath’s administration. Day 1, construction will also begin on 80, new Emergency Facilities. After 30 days, our transition to housing begins. Modern Emergency Facilities will include: mental-health facilities, detox facilities, educational facilities, canteens, and provide medical support for ALL Californian’s without housing. Then, we have to also solve the reasons that CAUSE homelessness. ”
baby 5y ago
The alternative is the Trump party?
- benjohnson 5y ago
  No - on a local level, people of goodwill from both parties can do meaningful good for all our citizens. This doesn't have to be a R vs D issue.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Trump isn't running for CA gov, not sure what you're referencing.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    baby is referencing the party headed by Trump, that seems pretty obvious.
anigbrowl 5y ago
I downvoted because this reeks of astroturfing. The candidate in question seems not to be serious (based on the wildly impractical/implausible policy proposals) and I really wonder if this run is just a stunt to promote his youtube channel. Novelty candidates are often publicity seekers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Paffrath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Paffrath I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps you'd care to explain how you see his National Guard deployment or other proposals working.
- gogopuppygogo 5y ago
  Biden is sending a “task force” into Chicago to curb crime: https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-chicago-violence-strike-force https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-chicago-violence-strike-for... Why can’t the governor send in the national guard to build housing for the needy?
void_mint 5y ago
> Kevin Paffrath (born 1992, also known as Meet Kevin),[2] is an American YouTuber, landlord, and real estate broker.[3][4][5] When your #1 qualification is YouTuber, you probably ahve no businesses holding public office.
- SrslyJosh 5y ago
  > landlord, and real estate broker That's a double dose of "fuck no"
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Just the modern version of actor and bodybuilder...
- gogopuppygogo 5y ago
  He knows how to engage people and run a profitable business. I know, YC still has a large audience in the Bay Area. Many of those folks live (or have lived) in San Francisco. A city that has enjoyed the fruits of their successful policies regarding business. Policies that continue pushing people with jobs away while attracting homeless folks. Not to mention electing Chesa Boudin, a district attorney literally trained by a failed socialist. California needs help from someone who isn’t a career politician/socialist IMHO.

Causality1 5y ago

Todd said she had gone to the overpass to distribute sandwiches, potato chips and water to people living at the freeway encampment. Todd’s lawsuit accuses the city of allowing the encampment at the 101 overpass on Gower to remain for a “substantial amount of time,” Why is she distributing supplies to a group of people she wants the city to throw out?

whymauri 5y ago
>Why is she distributing supplies to a group of people she wants the city to throw out? Article is paywalled, but presumably she doesn't want them thrown out. There are, in fact, other solutions to homeless encampments...
- tigertigerbb 5y ago
  > There are, in fact, other solutions to homeless encampments... Seriously, every time I read something like this I wish I was truly rich. I'd hand whymauri a billion dollars and let them loose on the homeless problem. The postmortem on the crash 'n burn would be a priceless thing to listen to down at the men's club.
- rhacker 5y ago
  I seriously don't know what the solution is. Enlighten us?
  - oblio 5y ago
    Social housing.
  - xeromal 5y ago
    This is just a personal take but * House the ones that are functional/capable of taking care of themselves to an extent * Mandatory rehab for the ones are strung out pm debilitating opiates * Asylum for the ones are mentally disabled.
    - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

encryptluks2 5y ago

With millions facing eviction, it is really sad that many people still see the homeless as needing drug counseling to fix their homelessness. It couldn't be that the cost of housing has skyrocketed and now in many places it costs upwards of $1500 a month for rent in a small apartment and the punishment for losing a job and falling behind on debt is having to pay even more for rent or just not being able to have a safe place to live. Makes you wonder if drugs is the cause of homelessness or if the way people treat those facing economic hardships often results in drug usage.

dhbanes 5y ago
Come to LA and talk to the people who live in these encampments. It will become very obvious to you that these aren't people who were living in a 2 bedroom apartment a couple months ago and just couldn't swing the rent.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  Yeah, those people are mostly still inc ars or on sofas. Once someone is down to being in a tent they've usually been homeless for a while.
aeternum 5y ago
It's likely there is not just a single factor. Drugs, evictions, mental illness, housing supply are all factors. Humans love to simplify to fit a narrative but that is rarely the case in practice.

kazinator 5y ago

> Because of the encampment, you couldn’t walk on the sidewalk. You had to walk on the street,” she said. Does not logically follow. LA is a big place; you can choose to walk completely elsewhere, unless someone is telling you to go the unsafe route at gunpoint. > she and another person, a homeless man with whom she was walking So she is knows the blockaders. Effectively, her friends blocked the sidewalk, leading to the alleged problem and incident. Wow, good friggin' luck with the suit, lady.

dyingkneepad 5y ago

As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obviously missing some important detail here. Of course I understand some drug addicts may not want a job or simply know they can't last more than a few days in one, but I would imagine a lot of these homeless people I see on the streets would actually like to have an income and be able to live anywhere that's not the streets. How do you reconcile that with the fact that there are so many simple jobs with open positions everywhere? This is not supposed to be a sarcastic or politically loaded question. Where I come from, jobs are simply unavailable and at the moment you advertise it, even if it's just flipping burgers, there are lines and lines of people competing for it. I fail to understand why the US is so different. Anybody would please be able to point me at what I'm missing? Edit: also, people who can't afford housing usually live with their families for a long time (or the whole life). Tiny houses with entire generations of families living in it are common. I guess this is still miles better than living in the streets.

leetrout 5y ago
You're seeing second and third order effects of our poor healthcare system. Especially the complete lack of appropriate mental health.
belval 5y ago
The base issue is usually mental illness worsened by substance abuse, without a strong social net and with readily available street drugs these people are pretty much unfit for any kind of work.
- goshx 5y ago
  This has been what I've seen personally volunteering at a homeless outreach. Mental illness seems to be the major factor.

1270018080 5y ago

Many Californians are struggling with the ultimate internal battle: Posturing about caring for the homeless while doing everything in their power to prevent housing from getting built. Because density "hurts the vibe of the neighborhood." Outsiders make fun of California for being overly progressive, but it's entirely surface level. Most are conservative beyond performative actions.

Fellshard 5y ago
The issue isn't solely lack of housing.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  Abundant housing is a necessary condition for solving homelessness.
  - thepasswordis 5y ago
    Have you spent much time working with the homeless?
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      Yes, I worked to create the most recent census of homelessness in my county. That's why I am aware of the fact that an overwhelming supermajority of current homeless express a wish to live in independent, affordable rental homes, like the rest of us. But you don't have to personally conduct the census to know this; you can just go read the results.
  - rtkwe 5y ago
    It'd help with the working homeless but you need way more than just cheap housing to help all types of homeless people.
  - coding123 5y ago
    There is also an abundant number of second houses that people own that are not rented that could house every single homeless person 25 to 40 times over.

jeffbee 5y ago

Governments in California are immune from liability for failure to enact or enforce any law, so good luck.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
travoc 5y ago
“It is a desperate man who engages his own government in a legal dispute.” -Unknown
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  What other choice do they have?
  - GaryTang 5y ago
    The only choice they have is to move. If your city no longer acknowledges you, the costs of moving are small in comparison
travismark 5y ago
interesting, thanks. for related reference, this year in Minneapolis some residents sued their city and showed that it had too few police officers. The ratio of police officers to residents is right there in the charter. A county judge ruled for the plaintiffs last month https://kstp.com/news/hennepin-county-rules-minneapolis-must-hire-more-police-officers-to-abide-by-city-charter-writ-of-mandamus/6159429/ https://kstp.com/news/hennepin-county-rules-minneapolis-must...

Fellshard 5y ago

Meta: Do not use single-factor analysis when examining the homelessness problem. It will get you into trouble every time.

RealityVoid 5y ago
I think that stands for all but the most trivial social problems.
throwhands77 5y ago
And please don't add confusion to muddy the water when otherwise simple solutions exist.

vmception 5y ago

Larry Elder has a real chance of winning the Governor recall election at this point. I was going to ignore it as just opposition party flailings, but now that the opportunity is there its not so far fetched.

anigbrowl 5y ago
That is true, little as I like him. As of yesterday polling for the recall was 46% for-48% against, which is tight enough to make things very uncertain. Not sure why you're being downvoted for factual statements, Elder is the leading Republican candidate at present and only a plurality is required in the event that the recall vote passes. California coul din theory be governed by someone who only had the support of 20% of the voters.

standardUser 5y ago

I've almost been hit by cars in SF for the exact same reason. Cities need to designate places for encampments to stop them from blocking sidewalks or disrupting residential areas. And they need to rapidly remove any that do block public access or disrupt residences.

slickrick216 5y ago
They have they’re called homeless shelters. Cities shouldn’t actively endorse camping by marking areas and if you think they should would you like to volunteer the streets outside and surrounding your house. Homeless people should be interviewed and those with mental illnesses treated by the state as they are objectively sick people in need of help. Homeless people under 18 should be taken into care. Homeless people over 65 showing senile ageing conditions should be asked if they want to go into retirement homes. Outside of this homeless people should be treated with decency and respect as adults capable of full agency. They should face the consequences of their disregard of the rules. Punishments should be scaled but society should not feel sorry for drug addicted homeless people and actively enable them to keep ruining theres and others lives. This provides an easy scapegoat for homeless people who have nothing wrong with them.
- KyleJune 5y ago
  I agreed with your first 2 paragraphs but for the last one, I think we should be treating addiction as a mental illness. Instead of just locking them up in jail or leaving them on the streets, we should be getting them help.
  - slickrick216 5y ago
    That’s fair I can see the argument but I think we all have the ability to be addicted to things regardless of your mental health.
    - pas 5y ago
      The ability? Sure but people with enough real substance in their lives have a much much greater motivation to manage their drug consumption. When you don't have much to lose, it becomes easy to don't give a fuck about the eventual problems of comedown, showing up to work, etc. And this uncaring aimlessness, short-term thinking is itself a sign of mental health problems. (Depression.)

legitster 5y ago

This is becoming such a frustrating issue. As an advocate of public spaces and parks, it's kind of heartbreaking that maybe 1/3 of public spaces in our town are no longer usable for all - they have more or less become private spaces for the homeless. I don't have much respect for communities that solve the issue by just "kicking them out" and passing the problem onto others, but it is almost becoming unacceptably common in America. It's a pity - this used to be a problem that was mostly solved by the private market. The rise of homelessness is almost equal to the decline of single occupancy housing (flophouses, chicken wire hotels, etc). But in our quest to eliminate slums and "bad neighborhoods" we ended up just spreading them across cities.

foxpurple 5y ago
IMO the city should provide enough homeless shelters for everyone and then just make homelessness illegal. So if you are found sleeping in a tent you get referred to the nearest shelter and if you refuse you get arrested. We can not allow homelessness to exist because it makes public spaces unsafe like you mention. Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions.
- danans 5y ago
  > Homeless shelters can also help by making it hard for them to continue their drug addictions. They do, and this is sometimes why homeless people avoid the shelters. You cannot hold someone in a shelter against their will.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    Also, more than a few of those chronic drug addictions are self-medicating for other conditions that are only tangential to housing itself and aren't going to get any better if you take the drugs away without offering other support.
  - foxpurple 5y ago
    That’s why my suggestion is to offer them the choice to willingly use a shelter or go to jail. Homelessness and drug abuse can not be allowed to exist to keep public spaces safe.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ffggvv 5y ago

non paywall https://ktla.com/news/local-news/woman-struck-by-car-on-street-where-tents-were-blocking-sidewalk-is-suing-l-a/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/woman-struck-by-car-on-stre...

NonContro 5y ago

If you want to solve homelessness in the USA, then properly enforce border security of the country (including walls) and halt the refugee intake. The same low-income housing and entry-level work which is needed for homeless americans is being taken up by these immigrants. In my homeland of Ukraine, incomes are a fraction of the USA but still there is no homelessness because the country's population is not growing due to mass immigration, and so the existing housing stock is sufficient to cover everyone's needs.

austincheney 5y ago

None of this makes sense to me. In Fort Worth it is a misdemeanor to panhandle or sleep in a public space without a permit. As a result I almost never see homeless people, even downtown. Homeless encampments certainly don’t exist or if they do they are places far away from residences or roads. I know there are numbers indicating there are homeless about though, so they just aren’t visible in areas where people would walk, drive, or sightsee. This is the 12th largest city in the US. On the other hand look to our neighbor to the south, Austin which is almost numerically identical. They appear to have homeless people everywhere that non homeless walk and do business. The difference is striking. I don’t understand why any city would allow homeless to congregate like this outside managed care.

effingwewt 5y ago
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets and to steal bread-the rich as well as the poor.

jdalgetty 5y ago

She'll get a nice settlement!

throwhome2 5y ago

Nobody wants to admit this, but probably more so here on HN and specially those who will downvote this reply to oblivion and have 10k+ karma points. They will find any excuse to sidestep this as a legitimate issue, here are some to watch out for: a. other countries have a worse homeless problem b. it's because we closed mental health institutions in the 80s c. I was homeless you don't know what you're talking about d. war on drugs is the cause e. you shouldn't judge others maybe they chose this... the list goes on and on and I'm not going to respond to any of them here, just something to be on the look out for when this topic comes up. In the US people don't find the same solidarity with their fellow citizens unless you belong to the same club or same sociopolitical spectrum you basically think you're better than everyone else and there is a deep rooted superiority complex among people here. This is in stark contrast to countries even in Europe including Italy and others where there is a strong sense of community and for example Italianess that supersedes petty political and idealogical beliefs that many in the US cling to almost religiously. I don't think Americans want to admit this specially the closer to the coastal cities you get the less sense of solidarity with fellow citizens and belongingness prevails rather than more community driven even religious South.

keewee7 5y ago

Why do homeless people in the US concentrate in a few big cities with good weather? In Denmark there are fewer of them and they are more spread out and you can also find them in rural areas.

imbnwa 5y ago
Those few big cities have lax homelessness enforcement. Chicago used to have a massive homeless problem up into the 90s (homeless died in the winter all the time), particularly underneath the freeways and Wacker Drive downtown, then they practically made it illegal and fenced up those spaces.
TMWNN 5y ago
As imbnwa said, it's lack of enforcement. Ignore those who say that it's good weather. San Diego has homeless but not nearly as many as San Francisco, despite San Diego having probably the best weather in the US. San Francisco, however, has many more services for the homeless than San Diego.
- pandaman 5y ago
  Or Austin, which has horrible weather but its mayor just allows "city camping".
__app_dev__ 5y ago
Also, many cities put Homeless on a one-way bus to San Francisco and other "homeless friendly" cities. I'm 42 and I recall Florida doing this over 20 years ago when I was in High School. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/... For many years I lived in Beverly Hills (near Los Angeles). They have very few homeless so it's nice but the rest of LA (Los Angeles) is a disaster right now. It's not just cities with Good Weather though because Seattle has one of the worst homeless problems. Although I don't have any stats it feels like it's mostly just a West Coast problem as I never hear about this from the middle of America or large East Coast Cities.

unthethered 5y ago

This morning there was a tent on the 2/Santa Monica 101 off-ramp not just taking up the entire sidewalk but IN the street. I had to swerve to not hit it.

balozi 5y ago

L.A., like most major US cities, does not harbor slums similar to those found abutted to some other major cities around the world. The growth of informal housing arrangements within public spaces, a la L.A. homeless encampments, maybe a reflection of this. Its possible that slums do indeed play a vital role in urban housing? Since slums have always been viewed a third-world thing, western policy makers may have neglect paying them due consideration. Where Are The World’s Worst Slums? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q67gldZ1P_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q67gldZ1P_8

literallyaduck 5y ago

Side walks aren't for camps. With mental health incarceration being voluntary in many states the segment of mentally ill homeless will always remain. Even offering the nicest accommodations for all other segments you still have a big problem.

watertom 5y ago

A lot of people who are homeless have mental health issues and are homeless due to those issues, it's almost like they need to be cared for in a mental health environment because being homeless isn't actually their problem. A lot of people who are homeless have substance abuse issues, and are homeless due the those issues, it's almost like they need to be cared for in a substance abuse program because being homeless isn't actually their problem. Once we whittle away the people who have issues that cause their homelessness other than just being homeless we can get to the people, who are either unemployed, under employed, or so debt ridden that they can't find a place to live. This may be a coarse filter, but IMHO it's better than just shoving people into a "living space" and being done.

koheripbal 5y ago
The programs you suggest should treat these individuals DO exist. Typically the people afflicted with addiction and/or mental health issues refuse treatment. I have seen well intentioned social workers walking through these tents cities trying to bring people in for treatment. They do not want to go. Should we force people into facilities they cannot leave so that they can be treated? It is a similar story for homeless shelters. The issue isn't the availability of beds - it is that the homeless do not want to stay in the shelter.

kaminar 5y ago

Who thinks Nancy Pelosi can solve this problem?