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Apple iPhone charger teardown: quality in a tiny expensive package (2012)
- MAGZine 5y ago(2012)
- smilespray 5y agoI knew I had read this teardown before...
- yaseer 5y agoPreviously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3996171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3996171
- wyager 5y agoApple is the only company I’ve ever come across that seems capable of building a phone charger without any noticeable inductor whine.
- yepthatsreality 5y agoAlso the only company I have purchased a charging cable from that the outer rubber covering wears away in a few months from light use (didn't move it or coil it, just sits there plugged into the wall). Kind of ironic when compared to the high quality charging wall plug.
- HPsquared 5y agoI wish they'd make the cable part replaceable.
- outworlder 5y agoDefinitely not the only company to suffer from this, but most charging cables from other companies are sleeved with plastic - which seems more durable but will wear out too. Usually they don't feel or look as good, compared to a new Apple cable. Which is, I assume, the reason they keep doing this, to look great at the store. Problem is, like you say, it can wear away relatively easily, depending on conditions. And they don't look anywhere near as good once dust starts building up. Now, you can fix this (and any other cable for that matter) with some paracord and optionally some plastic sleeving (techflex or similar) and heat shrink. That's better than throwing away cables. You can also do this for aesthetics with perfectly good cables. Bunch of youtube videos on how to do this (keep in mind, most are sponsored or made by the very companies selling these). The thing I don't understand is - colorful paracord makes the cables look great. They come in different colors, which would make a lot of sense for Apple. Protected by good plastic, they are pretty much indestructible. At scale, they obviously have access to even better materials with they could use to make their cables look unique.
- post_break 5y agoI have a handful of chargers, from anker, aukey, choetech, etc. None of them make a sound. What's incredible is with GaN my 61w macbook pro charger now fits in the palm of my hand. https://imgur.com/a/tuBcOJd https://imgur.com/a/tuBcOJd
- shaicoleman 5y agoI've only experienced coil whine from OnePlus Dash chargers. I mainly use Samsung chargers, and never had an issue.
- smoldesu 5y agoIt's a shame Apple hasn't really made any more strides in the world of chargers recently. I was particularly disappointed by the Magsafe Battery Pack[0] which rather disappointingly couldn't top off my phone from 10%. For $99, I'd hope for a few more mAh to be squeezed in there... [0] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJWY3AM/A/magsafe-battery-pack https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJWY3AM/A/magsafe-battery...
- wlesieutre 5y agoIf you're looking for every last bit of juice out of a battery, inductive charging might not be the best way to get it. I'm sure Apple wants to strike a balance of convenience and enough power for most people without making it any bulkier than necessary. Product-wise there was a rumor that Apple will be switching to more compact GaN chargers this year, so I wonder if that will come with the Macbook Pro redesign? https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/04/apple-gan-chargers-rumor/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/04/apple-gan-chargers-rumo... Anker and others have had these for a while, but one imagines the supply chain is trickier when you need to produce tens of millions of them.
- skohan 5y agoIt would be cool if they also applied this to the Macbook Air chargers. The tiny charger on the M1 Air makes it a pleasure to travel with, and an even smaller one would be incredible.
- wlesieutre 5y agoI keep one of these in my messenger bag for use with my iPad, if I'm not mistaken it matches the Air charger wattage too: https://us.anker.com/products/a2614 https://us.anker.com/products/a2614
- intsunny 5y agoIt's a shame so few companies still make high quality 5V/1A chargers anymore. Apple seems to be the only one left that does so, and with consistent and predictable manufacturing. 5V/1A is great for overnight charging. I've noticed my phone battery lasts so much longer the next day.
- jbay808 5y agoI don't know if it's unique to them, but Sony slow-charges up to 80-90% until about an hour before you set your alarm, then brings you up to 100% before you wake up. Seems to work well and the battery degradation I've seen, after 4 years, has been very minimal.
- outworlder 5y agoThis also exists on IOS.
- naavis 5y agoOnePlus does the same.
- darumderum 5y agoSame for Google Pixel
- smoldesu 5y agoNow, if only they could engineer a cable that doesn't get ripped to shreds within the first few weeks of use...
- hellotomyrars 5y agoIt is a crying shame how the official Apple cables seem to be almost intentionally designed to be as fragile as possible. Everyone I have ever known with a MacBook MagSafe chargers has a cable that is in tatters and when I see them it genuinely scares me. And when I ask them about it the response is usually akin to “well it still works and they’re expensive to replace”. True enough if you want to replace it with an official one. Admittedly I haven’t seen any of the newer usb-c ones. The lightning cables tend to hold up a little better but the jacketing still seems extra thin and flimsy. I've actually only owned 2 iPhones (6s and SE2) and one iPad because I'm not someone who cares about having (or spending the money) on a crazy fancy phone but I do prefer iOS. I've bought a few nice third-party MFI-certified cables after the one that came with my 6s disintegrated and haven't bought a new one since. They were a bit expensive, but they're in as good of shape as when I bought them and well worth the upfront cost.
- zz865 5y agoI've seen many house fires over the last few years that were from chargers. I'd hope risk of bursting into flames is one of the most important things when choosing - it freaks me out. I'd hope the big brands have 0% chance of this - is that correct?
- cyral 5y agoThis is what sketches me out so much about electronics like chargers by random brands on Amazon (the trend lately seems to be random characters in all caps) that surely have no oversight or conformance to standards.
- JamesSwift 5y agoIts been a while but my first macbook charger came close to setting a fire I think. I smelled something as I passed my bedroom, and found that the computer charger was smoking. I unplugged it from the computer/wall and put it in my sink and things were fine, but it definitely freaked me out. I haven't had similar issues since, but every single one of my dozen or more since have frayed _very_ quickly relative to other cords/chargers I use.
- tomjen3 5y agoI have seen the result of two mobile chargers blow up in the office - the fire was only prevented by fuses and even so there were black scorch marks on the power outlets. My dads battery charger blew up similarly. In all cases it was because they were brought cheap on Aliexpres. I haven't seen any chargers sold elsewhere have any issues. The closest thing I got was when I charged my laptop on my bed and had put the blanket over the charger - it didn't fail but it got really, really, really hot. So based on anecdata: don't buy things things to stick in walls on aliexpress. Also fuses are really nice.
- kitsunesoba 5y agoA lot of the chargers and cables you find in gas stations and the like are identical to the AliExpress junk, so it’s a good idea to be wary of those too.
- tintt 5y agoLove it when companies do the smallest things right. A bit sad that a dollar worth of additional components incure 200-300% of the final price markup (comparing Apple vs Samsung chargers)
- sMarsIntruder 5y ago2012
- andrewmcwatters 5y agoIt might be a lot of profit, but it takes a lot of cash to hire the type of people who would design such a thing, first.
- mshockwave 5y agoexactly, estimating the price solely by the sum of its components is like paying programmer by the number of characters they typed
- arthurcolle 5y agoReminds me of this: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Li...
- turbinerneiter 5y agoThey make at least 200 million of those a year and they can use the same design easily for 5 years. 1 billion devices. 1 cent per device would allow them to spend 10 million on the development. Development cost is neglible for this kind of stuff.
- andrewmcwatters 5y agoYes, certainly, but it also implies one has sufficient demand to make back the cost.
- kens 5y agoYes, exactly! Also, a lot of the design work is done by the manufacturer (Flextronics) and the semiconductor company. Apple has different charger designs (that look identical outside) so they can play off different companies against each other.
- JohnJamesRambo 5y agoI think it is pretty much the datasheet reference circuit so the people that designed the chip were already paid for that and that cost is in the bill o
- jeffbee 5y agoIt's basically the circuit from the L6565 application notes. What sets it apart from the cheap and dangerous ones is those manufacturers start from the reference design and try to throw away things they don't really understand to save 2¢.
- ValentineC 5y agoApple may make great USB chargers, but they have certainly cut corners and shirked responsibility when it comes to the rubber insulation of their Lightning and (MacBook) MagSafe cables. I've brought my frayed MagSafe charger, which has degraded to the point that it's been staining everything blue, to an Apple Store Genius Bar multiple times, and the Geniuses (in multiple countries) keep saying that it's my fault that the insulation degrades over time, and that such "wear and tear" is not covered under warranty.
- wil421 5y agoNever had this issue with my late 2011 MBP and my 2017 MBP. Both MagSafe chargers are in tact. The 2011 one outlasted the computer.
- dijit 5y agoI've also never frayed an actual Apple cable, but I've had some non-apple cables that didn't last very long. But, maybe part of that is understanding that the Apple ones suck? I know they've picked form over function for the strain relief, so I make a subconscious effort not to strain them. My ex-girlfriends charger didn't last very long, but mine (from 2011) is still quite well maintained, though darkened and discoloured with age. Ugh, this sounds like I'm saying "you're holding it wrong" but, what I mean is that maybe we have a bit of survivorship bias here and because we tried to keep our cables in good shape. I highly suspect too, that Apple is using eco-friendly plastics in the cables, which might be part of why they degrade so poorly, even when not strained at the ends.
- wil421 5y agoYea my wife’s cables don’t last long. I think it’s the way people curl it up. Anker probably makes the better 3rd party cables. Other brands on Amazon are far worse. I try not to buy 3rd party cables for my laptops but will by them for phones and tablets.
- randomdata 5y agoThe charger from my 2009 MBP has its cable perfectly intact; looks brand new. The charger from my 2012 model disintegrated at both ends. They lived similar lives. I have to think the material quality declined somewhere in there.
- kens 5y agoIt's a surprise to see my blog post from nine years ago (!) at the top of Hacker News. Anyone have questions about chargers?
- andrewmcwatters 5y agoHow does one learn to build such things? Most would say school, but I imagine there are particularly good reads out there that are more helpful to those driven enough to be autodidacts. Thank you for such an excellent and digestible article. Such a pleasure to read.
- kens 5y agoI don't know how to build them, just take them apart :-) But seriously, there are a lot of books on switching power supply design. E.g. Fundamentals of Power Supply Design by Mammano, who is "the father of the PWM controller IC industry".
- andrewmcwatters 5y agoVery cool! Thank you!
- seltzered_ 5y agoHuh, that's a new one. I worked in the space and Erickson and Maksimovic - Fundamentals Of Power Electronics (along with the courses taught at UC Boulder) was one many centered around. In many cases most of the power engineers I worked with just sorta had a feel for things and relied on simulation tools (LTSpice / SwitcherCAD).
- cogman10 5y agoFor something as basic as a charger, an intro to electronics course/book is probably good enough. There's more than enough youtube videos out there about bridge rectifiers and the like. The charge circuitry here isn't anything too special.
- 5y ago
- baybal2 5y agoIt's a typical Delta power supply. They make good quality power supplies if you have a buck. https://www.deltaww.com https://www.deltaww.com
- matrix 5y agoFor anyone interested in these - their consumer chargers are here: https://www.myinnergie.com/us https://www.myinnergie.com/us Unfortunately, their "buy now" button links to Amazon; I don't trust Amazon not to sell me a counterfeit that will burn my house down.
- greggturkington 5y agoCan you believe a new iPhone 5 only included a 5W USB-A power adapter?! Compare that with an iPhone 10 5 years later, which came with a beefy 5W USB-A power adapter.
- samatman 5y agoThat's infinitely more powerful than the charger which comes with the iPhone 12!
- Daneel_ 5y agoI mean, that’s the healthiest charger for the phone. I know you’re trying to say “give me a stronger charger”, but for others this is actually a selling point - I don’t want strong chargers, I want a well built weak one that preserves my battery.
- saiya-jin 5y agoI know there are plenty here who agree with you, but for at least 98% of the population its just a crappy old technology by company who is charging too much over it. They don't understand technical details and they don't care. A phone who can charge in 30 mins vs 2 hours is a major selling point though. Most people change phones every 3-4 years due to many reasons, physical attrition of hardware being one of it, battery being another, overall hardware not being good enough (speed, capacity) being another. Almost nobody cares if they can save 5% of battery over that time by charging slowly. Heck, I know I don't. It would be a different proposition if one would lose say 50% of capacity, but even folks in this thread confirm that's not the case for same hardware.
- GuB-42 5y agoYou can get the best of both words with good power management. Fast charging can be disabled on my phone. I also know some laptops where you can limit the charge to ~70%, intended for case where it is always plugged in and you rarely need the battery. Some phones try to be smart, taking into account the time you set up the alarm for instance. The idea is to have fast charging for emergencies and slow charging for regular overnight charging. And the thing you plug into the wall isn't actually a charger, it is a power supply. The real charger is in the phone, and that's the one that decides if it needs fast or slow charging, taking into account what the power supply can deliver.
- lmilcin 5y ago> (...) roughly 4mm of distance is required between the two circuits. (As I discuss in Tiny, cheap, dangerous: Inside a (fake) iPhone charger, cheap chargers totally ignore these safety rules. Which is why I immediately destroy any charger at my home that is suspect to not come from a brand name producer. Is it really worth to risk your life for couple of dollars? Electronics is my hobby and I also happen to design some switch mode power supplies for AC. I can't overstate how difficult it is to design a good safe SMPS. Comparing to my other projects it seems it is at least 20-50 times harder to design a dedicated SMPS than the rest of the circuit, even with a lot of specialized literature on the matter to help me out (meaning I don't create my own topologies, I just learn the ones that are well described in the book). And that for applications under 100W.
- treesknees 5y ago> Is it really worth to risk your life for couple of dollars? This has been my thought ever since the news came out about AmazonBasics products like chargers and cables catching fire and melting. I've since started springing for the more expensive Apple-branded chargers and cables instead. Saving $15 but burning my house down... not worth it!
- markus_zhang 5y agoIs there a way to hack this thing?
- turbinerneiter 5y agoYou might be able to influence the output voltage somewhat by dwindling with the passives, but there is no code running anywhere that you could manipulate.
- markus_zhang 5y agoThanks. I heard the battery is "smarter" in the sense that it has some chips.
- GIRLHAKCER 5y agoWow
- londons_explore 5y agoI actually think that while this charger is acceptable, it is pretty disappointing from Apple. A neat design wouldn't use a bridge rectifier on the input side - it would use synchronous rectification (more efficient, substantially smaller because no big passives are required for input smoothing, and nicer on the electrical grid because it's actually possible to design it to deliberately absorb harmonics generated by other devices in your home). Next step would be to use a much higher switching rate (eg. 3Mhz). Use some high performance MOSFETs to reduce switching losses. Suddenly that transformer becomes the size of a grain of rice and the capacitors can all be surface mount. The whole thing can now be lighter, smaller, cheaper, and less environmentally impactful while maintaining the same performance. Apples design here was electrically boring and very much not pushing the envelope of what is possible.
- quwert95 5y agoDoes anyone know of a teardown like this for more recent chargers (ie. the "top rated Amazon chargers" or "Best Buy Specials")?
- BOOSTERHIDROGEN 5y agohttps://www.chongdiantou.com/ https://www.chongdiantou.com/
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rokweom 5y agohttps://lygte-info.dk/ https://lygte-info.dk/
- rconti 5y ago[2012] I've replaced all my mini cube iPhone chargers with Anker GaN IQ3 nano chargers that do 18w from the same size.
- sorry_outta_gas 5y agodepends on your definition of quality they still break on me often
- dang 5y agoA couple of past threads: Apple iPhone charger teardown (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23057091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23057091 - May 2020 (71 comments) Apple iPhone charger teardown: quality in an tiny expensive package - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3996171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3996171 - May 2012 (167 comments)
- FridayoLeary 5y ago>I was surprised to realize how enormous Apple's profit margins must be on these chargers. These chargers sell for about $30 (if not counterfeit), but that must be almost all profit.
- jug 5y agoI guess that’s where they need to be for their current market valuation? But this article also illustrates why I pay this premium over third party budget stuff.
- varispeed 5y ago> quality in a tiny expensive package (2012) And then I see cheap Chinese capacitors. Probably other passive elements are as cheap as possible.
- soheil 5y ago> The primary circuit board has a grounded metal shield How can it have a ground when the charge is a two-pronged plug?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- SavantIdiot 5y agoIt cracks me up that they still used TO-092A xtor packages. After all that compaction they couldn't use a smaller package? I know, I know: its probably because there isn't a smaller package without going to surface-mount, and it probably has higher current & thermal capabilities. I just thought it was funny to see those to big plastic cans in there.
- logbiscuitswave 5y agoThis was one of the first posts by Ken that I saw and it got me hooked. He does such a great job at making tear downs like this interesting and accessible. He has a great companion article with a cheapo charger for comparison: http://www.righto.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-why-you.html http://www.righto.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and... and a comparison of an Apple MacBook charger and a knock-off: http://www.righto.com/2015/11/macbook-charger-teardown-surprising.html http://www.righto.com/2015/11/macbook-charger-teardown-surpr... Really fascinating stuff.
- shreddit 5y agoThe ones sold in Europe are not nearly as small as these, that’s because the last time i went to the us i bought one of these little cubes, although i can not use it. But i really like their design.
- hoseja 5y ago... about $1 extra cost... I really don't get why electronic components are all made from the cheapest-possible (sometimes cheaper) stuff. When have all engineers been indoctrinated that skirting safety envelopes is a sign of genius design?
- yangminded 5y agoAnd that is why I buy Apple chargers to power my Arduinos and Raspberry Pis.
- qwerty456127 5y agoI am obsessed with hardware longevity and want all my hardware (smartphones included) and their batteries to stay fit for as long as theoretically possible. I have also noticed that the faster you charge a phone the sooner you have to re-charge it. I don't care how long does it take to charge. How much does the charger cost doesn't matter much either. Are iPhone chargers the best choice for me? As of today I just use the cheapest chargers I can find because they are 1a and less.
- perryizgr8 5y agoMost phones will let you control the rate of charge. So you can use a fast charger but still charge at regular old USB speed. Which is 1A @ 5V I think.
- qwerty456127 5y agoHmm. I have never seen such a feature. You mean most modern phones, do you? I wouldn't buy a phone which is not in this[1] list and most of them are old. My actual phone is about 8 years old (and each year makes me more proud :-)) and I still am totally satisfied (except with its GPS function - it's rather slow to find the satellites, but I don't need it often). Nevertheless, this is interesting to know. I actually wondered how are people supposed to avoid killing their batteries as slow chargers are disappearing from shops. Which seems a serious problem today as most of the modern phones don't even let you change the battery without going to an authorized service shop. [1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
- perryizgr8 5y agoI have seen the option in all recent (3-4 years) Samsung phones. I have it on mine (S10) which is in the LineageOS list. You can separately throttle the wired and wireless charging speed. I don't know if the feature would be exposed inside LineageOS. > My actual phone is about 8 years old Amazing. I wish I had the self control to not keep buying the latest phone every couple years. PS: I have even setup mine to switch to slow charging only if it is past 10pm and I am at home. Any other time or place, it charges at full speed. Because that is handy sometimes.
- Reason077 5y ago"quality in a tiny expensive package" Pretty much sums up all Apple products.
- hda111 5y agoSince it has a green PCB I doubt Apple designed it itself but rather let someone else do it for them. Looking at AirPods Pro and AirPort Extreme teardown one can see that every Apple PCB is black.
- ChrisArchitect 5y ago2012 post, come on. Anything new since then? Here's discussion from just a year ago when this was still old: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23057091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23057091