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I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. At that point the majority of those who actively want protectio

I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. At that point the majority of those who actively want protection will be able to get it. This is not the same as saying _all_ who want protection will get it, since no vaccine is 100% effective, and some people who would like to be vaccinated will not be able to because of health conditions or other circumstances, but I suspect society as a whole will decide "close enough." I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that -- I think the number of "people who want protection but can't get it" will be uncomfortably large -- but this is my guess of when society as a whole will decide to move on. Honestly, I think this means the future looks like the present, but more so. The places that will be hit the hardest will be more working class and in places that under invest in health and welfare. That's already the current trend, certainly in the US -- look at where medicaid expansion following the ACA has and hasn't happened, for instance, and who has access to decent health care and who doesn't. In some ways I think we're lurching back to previous centuries, where diseases like cholera, dysentry, typhus, etc were endemic, and could certainly affect the wealthy and professional classes, but were primarily scourges of the working class.

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timr 5y ago
> I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. Children are at exceptionally low risk from Covid. It's time to stop with fear, uncertainty and doubt, and deal with facts. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w In the US, 340 children under 17 have died from Covid. Total. During the same period, 187 have died from the flu, and over 51,000 children have died from all causes: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Se... The reason the vaccines aren't being approved for children is that there is compelling evidence that children are at greater risk from the vaccines than the virus. This is why (for example) approval for vaccination of children and teenagers is split across Europe, and the UK has restricted access to only children with known vulnerabilities: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-give-covid-19-vaccines-only-to-most-vulnerable-children https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-gi... https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries-evenly-split-covid-jabs-teenagers https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries... > At that point the majority of those who actively want protection will be able to get it. This is less about what the children want, and more about anxious adults want, and that is unconscionable. Kids are largely at the mercy of their parents, so it's essential that the regulatory bodies tread carefully on this issue. We don't need kids to be vaccinated to reduce Covid to a manageable seasonal illness on par with the flu.
- anyonecancode 5y ago
  > Children are at exceptionally low risk from Covid. Let's hope the die keep rolling up to that result with each succeeding variant!
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - timr 5y ago
    This is a perfect illustration of the point. In the face of ample documented evidence of the actual risk, your response is to speculate wildly about future events that are completely inconsistent with what we know.
    - majormajor 5y ago
      The "give up and let it be endemic forever" defeatism attitude appears very statistically foolish. It's likely, yes, but why on earth would we want to just accept that? The flu, for instance, bounces around in severity and kills tens of thousands per year in the US. Few of those are kids, so what? If we're happy to let the virus continue to transmit in any populations, it'll change in various ways. One year a variant may pop up that'll be more harmful to those kids. At some other point a variant may pop up that'll be more elusive against adult immunity, etc. Over years, how many lives does that add up to? Why wouldn't we aggressively try to vaccinate as many people as possible before those things happen? Success wouldn't be guaranteed even if people weren't opposed to it for various spurious reasons but it would be nice if we believed we could accomplish hard things...
      - lordloki 5y ago
        Is it defeatism or just accepting reality? What are the chances that Covid19 is ever globally eradicated?
      - timr 5y ago
        > The "give up and let it be endemic forever" defeatism attitude appears very statistically foolish. Well first, that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I made a very specific argument about how fear -- hysteria, really -- is driving our reaction to what is right to do for children. But second, it isn't "statistically foolish"...it's just a basic understanding of biology and our rather poor history of eradicating viral diseases. Statistics don't come into play here either way. Reasonable people can disagree on whether or not Covid can be eradicated, but you have to be delusional to think that this will be accomplished on any sort of timeline that is relevant to our lifetimes.
andi999 5y ago
What about pregnant females? Country I am in doesn't allow them to be vaccinated. Is this allowed in the US?
- dragontamer 5y ago
  USA allows pregnant females to get the vaccine. Our biggest remaining group is the 12-and-under population (which needed a new set of tests to figure out the new dosage. Young children weigh much less than an adult and therefore need much lower doses...). The current estimates are maybe October before this children are authorized.
nradov 5y ago
A recent Johns Hopkins study found a COVID-19 mortality rate of 0 for children without serious co-morbid conditions. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccin...

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timr 5y ago

> I'd imagine not too long after safe and effective vaccines are authorized for children under 12. Children are at exceptionally low risk from Covid. It's time to stop with fear, uncertainty and doubt, and deal with facts. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w In the US, 340 children under 17 have died from Covid. Total. During the same period, 187 have died from the flu, and over 51,000 children have died from all causes: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Se... The reason the vaccines aren't being approved for children is that there is compelling evidence that children are at greater risk from the vaccines than the virus. This is why (for example) approval for vaccination of children and teenagers is split across Europe, and the UK has restricted access to only children with known vulnerabilities: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-give-covid-19-vaccines-only-to-most-vulnerable-children https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-19/u-k-to-gi... https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries-evenly-split-covid-jabs-teenagers https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-countries... > At that point the majority of those who actively want protection will be able to get it. This is less about what the children want, and more about anxious adults want, and that is unconscionable. Kids are largely at the mercy of their parents, so it's essential that the regulatory bodies tread carefully on this issue. We don't need kids to be vaccinated to reduce Covid to a manageable seasonal illness on par with the flu.

anyonecancode 5y ago
> Children are at exceptionally low risk from Covid. Let's hope the die keep rolling up to that result with each succeeding variant!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- timr 5y ago
  This is a perfect illustration of the point. In the face of ample documented evidence of the actual risk, your response is to speculate wildly about future events that are completely inconsistent with what we know.
  - majormajor 5y ago
    The "give up and let it be endemic forever" defeatism attitude appears very statistically foolish. It's likely, yes, but why on earth would we want to just accept that? The flu, for instance, bounces around in severity and kills tens of thousands per year in the US. Few of those are kids, so what? If we're happy to let the virus continue to transmit in any populations, it'll change in various ways. One year a variant may pop up that'll be more harmful to those kids. At some other point a variant may pop up that'll be more elusive against adult immunity, etc. Over years, how many lives does that add up to? Why wouldn't we aggressively try to vaccinate as many people as possible before those things happen? Success wouldn't be guaranteed even if people weren't opposed to it for various spurious reasons but it would be nice if we believed we could accomplish hard things...
    - lordloki 5y ago
      Is it defeatism or just accepting reality? What are the chances that Covid19 is ever globally eradicated?
    - timr 5y ago
      > The "give up and let it be endemic forever" defeatism attitude appears very statistically foolish. Well first, that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I made a very specific argument about how fear -- hysteria, really -- is driving our reaction to what is right to do for children. But second, it isn't "statistically foolish"...it's just a basic understanding of biology and our rather poor history of eradicating viral diseases. Statistics don't come into play here either way. Reasonable people can disagree on whether or not Covid can be eradicated, but you have to be delusional to think that this will be accomplished on any sort of timeline that is relevant to our lifetimes.

andi999 5y ago

What about pregnant females? Country I am in doesn't allow them to be vaccinated. Is this allowed in the US?

dragontamer 5y ago
USA allows pregnant females to get the vaccine. Our biggest remaining group is the 12-and-under population (which needed a new set of tests to figure out the new dosage. Young children weigh much less than an adult and therefore need much lower doses...). The current estimates are maybe October before this children are authorized.

nradov 5y ago

A recent Johns Hopkins study found a COVID-19 mortality rate of 0 for children without serious co-morbid conditions. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccin...