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Bank ATMs in Japan stop working between 6-9PM, and on weekends. My debit card got de-magnetized ( like a flaky hotel room key ) and stopped working at the offi
by alephnan 5y ago
Bank ATMs in Japan stop working between 6-9PM, and on weekends.
My debit card got de-magnetized ( like a flaky hotel room key ) and stopped working at the official bank ATM. It doesn't work at most third party ATMs, but I've found the 7-11 ATMs are quite robust and is actually able to transact. Seems like a weird security mechanism if the official bank ATM can't authenticate the card, but somehow 7-11 ATMs can bypass this and allow me to withdraw money.
The bank's website also has a very strange username / password rules. They can only contain numbers and letters, case insensitively. Also, you can't have more than 2 consecutive numbers or letters. For example, 'foo2bar' would not be valid, nor would 'fo911baz'. 'fo23ba23' works.
One of my friends in Japan is a doctor from Belarus, one of the poorest countries in Eastern Europe. She came to Japan thinking it was technologically advanced, and was shocked to find that in some aspects Belarus is more technologically modern.
I have a very cynical theory about why technology is seemingly archaic here. I think the state of digital technology is due to structural / hierarchical social reasons that these initiatives don't really address. Not directly related to the hierarchical constructs, but examples of traditional practices include:
- resumes must be hand-written
- the stack of paperwork you need to sign for an apartment is about 1 inches thick. If you're purchasing a property, you'll probably need a couple binders.
- you need to create Hanko ( personal seal stamp ) as your official signature for some paperwork
- havetocharge 5y agoThe "strange" password limitations are probably due to some mainframe backing authentication.
- ethbr0 5y agoThe broader "this" seems at the root of a lot of Japanese IT anachronisms. Incredibly conservative culture (especially with regards to business hierarchy) + early social digitization = huge number of antiquated systems The typical way things would finally get replaced in most companies ("If you're not migrated by X date, we're cutting it off, and your stuff will stop working") seems pretty anathema to Japanese corporate political expectations ("Don't make someone else look bad").
- jhgb 5y agoOr maybe some weird TRON thing? I know that Japan has some interesting and widespread-yet-exotic-for-us embedded things, some of which are bound to end up in their ATMs.
- drstewart 5y ago>I think the state of digital technology is due to structural / hierarchical social reasons that these initiatives don't really address. Maybe a trite / cliche saying now, but the quote about Japan being the most futuristic society you could imagine in the 1990s just rung so true after visiting.
- stopnamingnuts 5y agoI suspect I hit the sweet spot when I lived in Japan from 1993-1995 if I interpret your comment correctly. I remember being impressed by the tech. For example: ATMs into which one inserted not only a card, but also a transaction book which would be mechanically updated (versus spitting out a slip). I still have mine. We're talking about Japan so, naturally, my bank book features Snoopy prominently on its cover.
- kace91 5y agoWait, were those not universal? I’m from Spain and I remember those transaction books from my childhood (I was born in 1991). By the time I was old enough to get my first debit card they were long gone though.
- ErneX 5y agoThose still exist and the ATMs still accept them. For savings accounts, you introduce the thing and it prints on all the pages it needs.
- jholman 5y agoBank books worked like that in Canada in the late 80s or early 90s, yeah. It's interesting what seems impressive.
- rwmj 5y agoI'm afraid Building Societies in Britain had transaction books that would be updated by a printer back in the 1980s. Quite useful actually, I'm rather sad we no longer have them :-(
- 5y ago
- chucksta 5y agoThe major US company I worked for 6-7 years ago had a global presence, but were all sort of independent. We started to merge into 1 formal company, and started reviewing IT processes. The Japan location still had people walking through the data center with a sheet of paper and a pen, going through and manually checking servers off a list in the data center. It blew everyone's mind
- spamizbad 5y agoI sometimes wonder if Japan's work culture that demands long hours from workers disincentivizes time-saving "automation": In the US, where the expectation is closer to 40 hours, you don't have the luxury of always assuming employees will be cool putting in 10-12 hour days.
- MattGaiser 5y agoDoes it demand just long hours or also a certain level of busyness? As walking around with a clipboard looks a lot more busy than typing.
- namelessoracle 5y agoHaving worked in a data center. The "walk around with the clipboard" kinda still happens. Except its a tablet that syncs up with an actual database instead of lots of useless paperwork. Easy enough to look just as busy with the tablet.
- guskel 5y agoDon't forget the prevalence of faxing as well.
- agumonkey 5y agoIsn't Belarus one the most rapidly innovating on the digital society ? or is it another eastern country .. I forgot. That said banking may not be the best example about japan.. for a long time everything mobile was years ahead in japan. Maybe all brains died at Sony Computer Entertainment :)
- javier123454321 5y agoMight be thinking about Estonia, or E-stonia.
- agumonkey 5y agocould be yeah
- ekabod 5y agoBelarus main cities are modern. It didn't not feel like a poor country during my visits.
- jhgb 5y ago> For example, 'foo2bar' would not be valid, nor would 'fo911baz'. 'fo23ba23' works. But according to what you wrote, "foo2bar" would be OK? It seems to satisfy the 'no more than 3 consecutive numbers or letters' requirement. Also, the obvious answer to this is RLE compressing your passwords. ;) foo2bar could be easily written as f1o221b1a1r1 to make it acceptable.
- alephnan 5y agoSorry off-by-1 error. I meant exclusive of 3, not inclusive. So no more than 2.
- coopsmoss 5y agoI've noticed this kind of thing happens a lot, especially with banks. The institution or counties that "went digital" earliest are now hampered by the tech debt and infrastructure from the early days. And slower institutions/counties can leap frog them.
- donatj 5y agoI think that's just true about everything. You spend a ton of money deploying something, you're not going to rush to spend a ton of money deploying every incremental change.
- oconnor663 5y agoYeah I think this is why the US is so behind the curve on paying for things with phones. We went all in early on credit cards, and those are still mostly good enough for most cases, so there's not a lot of incentive to upgrade.
- twostorytower 5y agoI feel like Apple Pay is almost everywhere I go now.
- voidfunc 5y agoIs it? I have found there can be massive PoS differences between the coast. For example everywhere on the west coast it seems restaurants bring the CC scanner to your table and use a fancy digital checkout/pay system in restaurants. On the East coast we still hand credit cards to wait staff who give us paper receipts that then disappear to god knows where to run it. I dont even think Apple Pay is common at all around here in Boston/Cambridge.
- ip26 5y agoI figure contactless got a big unexpected boost from COVID. Suddenly not having to touch anything at all to check out because very appealing. It was "around" for ten years previously, not making many inroads. Suddenly it's everywhere.
- refurb 5y agoI did some business with Singapore which is pretty cutting edge with tech and has a nifty Singpass app that pulls everything a resident might need with regards to the gov’t - taxes, property, license, medical records, etc. But then I learned that they passed the electronic signature act in 2010 and it only applies to some signatures - purchase orders, but not property leases, letters of intent but not company founding documents. Everything else needs to be on paper and often needs a company stamp. The US, which I wouldn’t have considered that cutting edge, passed an electronic signature act 10 years earlier and it applies to pretty much everything. It’s just one example, and yes, many Asian countries can’t let go of their paper copies and wet signatures, but still leave the US in the dust in other ways, but I thought it was fascinating where countries have challenges moving to more efficient processes.
- dheera 5y agoI did an internship in Singapore once. One of the most backward things I remember about my time there is needing an "MC" (medical certificate from a doctor) when I wasn't feeling well one day. Like goddamn, it was just a minor cold, nothing serious, I just needed to stay at home and rest, not trek out to a doctor and infect other people on public transit on my way to the doctor. There wasn't anything the doctor could do anyway other than just tell me to take some Panadol for the low grade fever, which I was doing anyway. If it had happened again I would probably have just gone to work sick because of the silly system. I should decide if and when I need to see a doctor, not my employer. Considering how well-educated people were at the company I was at, there's no reason to not trust people when they say they need rest.
- philliphaydon 5y agoWhen I lived in Australia I had to present MC if I too time off on Monday or Friday. So I used to show up to work sick and get sent home because it was cheaper than seeing a doctor for a sniffle. In Singapore we have the MC requirement but I’ve been with the company 9 years so I just tell my boss when I’m sick. Don’t bother seeing doctor. Unless I’m sick for a few days with no feeling of getting better than I go and take time off work at that point.
- yarky 5y ago> resumes must be hand-written I like this one, a hand-written paper helps in judging someone, which I guess is the ultimate goal of a résumé.
- alephnan 5y agoI'm curious how well this works for evaluating physicians
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoI guess it sort of works for surgeons
- babypuncher 5y agoThis sounds awful. I have terrible handwriting, and handwriting skills are entirely non-essential in my line of work. People would be tossing my resume because it's hard to read, even though it has no bearing on my ability to do the work I'm applying for.
- grillvogel 5y agosounds like japan may not be the place for you then
- bschwindHN 5y agoYou can get by in Japan as a foreigner no problem without ever having to hand write a resume, you just have to seek out the right companies. I imagine it's a lot harder to avoid as a Japanese citizen.
- grillvogel 5y agoyeah because they genuinely have lower expectations of you as a foreigner
- mekoka 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- BinaryAsteroid 5y agoI worked in a national Japanese Lab for a year. For me, the illusion of tech advancement was shattered when I was told I needed to fill-out a form by hand to get access to a high-performance computing facility. I got my login and pass info about 5 business days after I mailed my application form by post.
- dr-detroit 5y agoyou had to be there in the 1980s when all the brand new tech apple and tesla are inventing for the first time ever were commonplace
- olingern 5y agoWhen I went to register my apartment in Musashino, a woman went and found a physical folder, thumped what looked to be 10+ pounds of paper onto the desk between us, and then proceeded to find my apartment. It was found 10+ minutes later. I was both amazed at the organization and horrified at the inefficiency.
- alephnan 5y ago> I was both amazed at the organization I used to be impressed by the organization, but as I look at my shelves of Muji document filers, I realized the organization is necessary.
- fomine3 5y agoReal estate industry for individuals is really behind and bad for everything. They must be replace but won't because there are huge information gap. Is there good tool to fill information gap? IT! So that's why they still sucks for IT.
- thejackgoode 5y agoIf Robert Sapolsky was in this thread, he would have probably elaborately explained why island cultures cling to tradition more strongly than the continental ones.
- alephnan 5y agoThere's also a phenomenon where migrants are more likely to cling to their prototypical tradition than people who stay. For example, the Taiwanese use traditional Chinese whereas Mainland China use simplified Chinese. Or the orthodox Jewish communities in Brooklyn. The Vietnamese diaspora.
- mc32 5y agoThat's what they say in anthropology, and there is truth to it, but I think you could find better examples. Israel is a new country that was populated by immigrants by and large. Hasids sought others out and settled like places because they wanted that culture, on the other hand secular jews in nyc are indistinguishable from anyone else (and they too are immigrants). China adopted simplified logograms to combat illiteracy. Honk Kong was not an immigrant city and it retained traditional characters. Cities in Vietnam exhibit some cracks in traditional culture, but go to the provinces and it's still traditional.
- odiroot 5y ago> For example, the Taiwanese use traditional Chinese whereas Mainland China use simplified Chinese It may be political though. As in Taiwan keeping up with the "true" Chinese tradition -- as opposed to post-Cultural-Revolution China.
- staticman2 5y agoOrthodox jews are not particularly representative of Jewish migrants. I suspect your premise in general is false.
- cbracken 5y agoThis is also quite dependent on which part of Japan we're discussing. As an example, while my daughter's record of birth in Tokyo is a printout of a digital record, my son's record of birth in Kyoto is hand-written, and other than the handwriting, looks identical to my wife's from the 1970s.
- SapporoChris 5y ago>Bank ATMs in Japan stop working between 6-9PM, and on weekends. That's really not the case. It will of course vary by bank and by location. Counter Example showing 4-24 hours availablity 7 days a week in Japanese: http://map.bk.mufg.jp/b/bk_mufg/info/BA590467/ http://map.bk.mufg.jp/b/bk_mufg/info/BA590467/
- fomine3 5y ago7-11's ATM is exceptionally well made ATM in Japan (in other words, others sucks). They correctly investigated UX, so they won't beep annoying sound and have Topre's numpad. Try it if you visit.
- baron816 5y agoI had to look up this hand-written resume thing, and I found this: https://blog.gaijinpot.com/write-japanese-resume/ https://blog.gaijinpot.com/write-japanese-resume/ Some gems: > There are plenty of photo booths, not unlike the popular purikura, that specialize in taking photos just the right size for resumes… The booths can be found on the streets of business districts or at most major train and subway stations. In fact, many machines let you pay with your train pass. > Unlike most western resumes, you don’t need to elaborate on the duties and requirements of all your previous jobs or try to explain how it is useful for the job you are seeking. > you should write any accomplishments that you have achieved over the years such as licenses or certificates. This even includes a driver’s license. In a city like Tokyo many people do not drive, however, some “paper drivers” get a license anyway just to appear more impressive on their resume. > The final major section is for desires, hopes, and dreams which obviously will include for you to talk about the kind of salary that you want.
- dvcrn 5y agoLuckily modern tech companies don't need those resumes anymore nowadays
- jeeeb 5y agoLanguage is a bit confusing here. In Japan it’s common to require a “resume” (履歴書) and “C.V” (職務経歴書). It’s on your CV that you detail your job history and highlights. A “resume” is more like a cover sheet and follows a very specific format. If you’re changing jobs mid-career you’ll usually need both. If you’re applying as a new grad you’ll probably only need a resume. When I was in Japan new grads were generally expected to hand write their resume. I think this was mostly a way of filtering applicants. It’s hard to spam job applications when you have to attend a (group) explanation meeting (説明会) and send a hand written “resume” with a picture of yourself in a suit pasted on. The expectations were much more flexible for mid-career job changes.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoYah. Well. The ATMs in Germany are often inacessible during the night. Because of vandalism, or something. So you have to search for one that is outside, and not in some closed self-service center. Even in large cities, or especially there, because potentially more vandalism. edit: Or use some gas/fuel station, which would be the equivalent to 7-11, I guess. Which doesn't work with every station, btw. (I mean, getting cash.)