12 ms·
"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with
by dgant 5y ago
"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized"
In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.
- dopylitty 5y agoIt’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clinical-spectrum/ https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin...
- version_five 5y ago> Severe Illness: Individuals who have SpO2 <94% on room air at sea level, a ratio of arterial partial pressure of oxygen to fraction of inspired oxygen (PaO2/FiO2) <300 mm Hg, respiratory frequency >30 breaths/min, or lung infiltrates >50%. Isn't the point that levels below severe are not generally fatal and don't require hospitalization. Nobody thinks it's good to get sick, but it generally ceases to be a threat to public health with vaccination.
- lugged 5y agoSure if you don't think permanent social distancing and mask wearing is not a problem. The severity of mild covid is still potentially long lasting and I'm willing to guess elderly aren't going to handle it well. Letting covid become endemic could reduce our life expecty considerably.
- version_five 5y ago> Sure if you don't think permanent social distancing and mask wearing is not a problem. I'm confused by this comment. I do think they are a problem, that's why I am encouraged by a vaccine that reduces covid to something that is not life threatening and that we can stop freaking out about.
- throwawayboise 5y agoIt always was that for the vast majority of people.
- audiometry 5y ago3mn Indian souls would disagree
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 55555 5y agoThat's a terrible loss, practically a genocide, but to be fair the parent said "the vast majority of people" and there's 1.4 billion people in India. In India, 151,000 people die every year just from car accidents, and ~4 million die each year from heart disease.
- kadoban 5y agoIsn't covid already endemic?
- lugged 5y agoSome claim it can still be irradicated. But those people get banned on YouTube for saying bad words so you probably won't believe me.
- 5y ago
- gibba999 5y agoThe million dollar questions include: - Long COVID post-vaccine. >10% of people have brain damage visible on MRIs, including mild cases. - Future mutations. People have been overly optimistic for 15 months now, and believed bad things couldn't happen. They do. There's no reason to believe Delta or Gamma are the end, or anywhere close.
- inter_netuser 5y agobrain damage after vaccine, or "mild" disease in vaccinated people? can you point to that MRI imaging? curious to see.
- gibba999 5y agoThis is the major one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v1.full https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. There are a lot of supporting smaller-scale studies too, replicating the same general result. E.g. https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid-19-causes-brain-damage-even-in-mild-cases/285-eec1cf1c-ee28-4601-8af2-df71252fd340 https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid-1... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8066611/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8066611/ If you Google, you'll find dozens of other small-scale studies.
- eloff 5y agoI couldn't find where it talks about vaccinated patients in the study you linked. It's not surprising that covid19 can cause brain damage (and heart damage, and death) to unvaccinated people.
- gibba999 5y agoThat was listed under "The million dollar questions include" I'm now realizing formatting / phrasing was unclear. 1. >10% of mild / asymptomatic cases have brain damage. 2. The million dollar question is whether this includes vaccinated cases. Vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths by far more than they do mild and asymptomatic cases.
- dopylitty 5y agoThat may be but it’s not a particularly useful definition on an individual level. If I’m sick in bed for two weeks I can’t work or take care of my family so those mild symptoms very much would be a danger, not to mention the dangers from long COVID which hasn’t been ruled out in vaccinated folks and the dangers of exposing people who can’t be vaccinated.
- kumarvvr 5y agoWhoa, I sometimes get SpO2 around 91 - 94 and I chalk it up to calibration error on cheap SpO2 devices (The ones that clip on to the hand, cost about 20 USD). Have been tested twice per employer requirements and was never positive though.
- rolleiflex 5y agoThe cheap SPO2 devices are calibrated on fair skin. If you have a darker complexion there is a known measurement error. If you are at 91% and feeling fine you are probably fine. Your body has a better SPO2 sensor than anything man-made.
- kumarvvr 5y agoDamn, I am brown and I guess I have to take that as a 3 - 5% error?
- rolleiflex 5y agoThat is correct. See here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18048893/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18048893/
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y agoI had COVID before the lockdowns. It wasn't apparent to me until I started hearing about the symptoms. The fatigue was awful, but on top of that, the night my fever broke I was laying down on my bed during February with a window open and no sheets covering me. All while hyperventilating. I kinda thought this was a weird flu but fortunately I didn't have to worry up front about potential death while having it. Worst case scenario I just wouldn't have woken up.
- codr7 5y agoYeah, me too. I traveled by bus all the way from Southern Italy to Sweden just before the virus hit the news, and fell sick with the same symptoms for about a week from the day I arrived. The fever was nasty, but the one thing I remember most is lying there alone in the middle of the night feeling like I wasn't getting enough oxygen and wondering what the hell was going on.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y agoI honestly was a little scared because it was so odd. I though it was just gonna be another flu. But of everything, the fatigue was the absolute worst. My spine, neck, and legs just felt like mush for a full week. Existing was effort. Could barely keep food down. When my fever broke, I went about my life like normal. Still I'd hate to imagine what it would've been like in a not so vaccinated era like the early 1900s. I probably would've died.
- camillomiller 5y agoI got it, and it was annoying, sure, but I had influenza A in the past and boy, was that REALLY bad. I would be totally fine if we get to a point where we consider Covid to be like an endemic seasonal flu for the vaccinated, because I can’t see many ways out otherwise
- blub 5y agoA virus with the flu's potential for damage and the SARS-2 level of infectivity even after a vaccine would be terrible for those getting sick, but even worse for healthcare.
- foepys 5y agoI think what a lot of people call the flu is actually "the sniffles" which desensitizes people to the danger. Influenza like you had is really, really bad. It takes weeks to recover and the first 1 or 2 weeks are hell.
- Pyramus 5y agoYes, that is correct. I believe the difference is that most of us were exposed to the flu when we were younger, building immunity to the strains that are seasonal. This is not the case for new strains. There are reports from the 1918 influenza strain that it killed young people over night: Folks went to bed with fever and didn't wake up the next day. If you had the flu or know somebody who had, it's no joke.
- peter_retief 5y agoI had the virus and it was slightly inconvenient, had a slight fever, cough and shortness of breath. Strangly my wife had different symptoms to me, no fever and vomiting. Lasted around 10 days with no lingering symptoms. I think the fever is important because my wife got reinfected but I did not.
- lambdaphagy 5y agoGlad you're ok, but I'm surprised you describe SOB as a slight inconvenience. In general, SOB is a pretty bad sign-- you're having trouble getting the one thing you'll die fastest without. Sure, you can put up with temporary mild SOB if you know it's going to stay mild, but not everyone can know that :/
- peter_retief 5y agoThanks, I realize I was lucky, it is a wildly unpredictable virus and I am not trying to minimize the possible outcomes.
- peteretep 5y ago> but I'm surprised you describe SOB as a slight inconvenience Ever been to a high altitude city? I was short of breath for my first week in Mexico City, and my lungs hurt after exercise. It’s very disconcerting, but also just a slight inconvenience.
- lambdaphagy 5y agoYes, it's a minor inconvenience when it's expected and you have confidence in a good prognosis. It can be tortuous when you don't know whether it's about to get worse.
- JeremyNT 5y agoi.e., it's like the common cold +/- a bit. Also keep in mind that many people are mostly asymptomatic entirely, even the unvaccinated. Sure, try not to get sick. Understand that there is some risk of symptoms. But getting COVID once you've had the vaccine shouldn't really be a concern worthy of altering any behaviors to avoid for healthy people.
- kaczordon 5y agoWhat’s more interesting is that 0/6 of the miners who had natural immunity were re-infected. That points to natural immunity preventing spread. The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission means that there is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit. Vaccine mandates or checking for vaccination status are pointless because of this.
- gojomo 5y agoIt is interesting that none of the infection-recovered were infected - though with only 6 individuals, that could be luck. There have been other hints natural immunity is stronger versus later variants. But your other point doesn't follow. The vaxed still tested positive at a slightly lower rate than the unvaxed. With no severe cases, no one died & no burden on limited emergency facilities was created. There's not enough info to know how much the vaxed spread it to others; they conjecture that their "patient 40", an unvaxed individual who had an asymptomatic case, was the "index case" that brought the infection in. Especially in the conditions of a mine – which might have limited ventiliation – perhaps that one unvaxed person shedded enough infectious material to create all the subsequent infections.
- wussboy 5y agoThat is an incredible leap.
- kaczordon 5y agoNope, globally we know that re-infection rarely occurs after being infected. This study shows a 60% attack rate for fully vaccinated miners, which is horrendous. The whole point of this study is that vaccination does not stop transmission of the virus. To quote the study: In conclusion, we describe a VOC Gamma COVID-19 outbreak with a strikingly high attack rate among persons fully vaccinated with BNT162b2 vaccine.[…]Masking and social distancing —even among those fully vaccinated— may be necessary.
- pbourke 5y agoWe also know that confirmed cases are mainly among the unvaccinated and serious outcomes are nearly all (99%) among unvaccinated, despite fully vaccinated and unvaccinated being roughly equal populations in the US at present.
- Ostrogodsky 5y agoI suppose those miners are strong healthy men, wouldnt we expect the same results if they were exposed to the virus while being not-vaccinated? > In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission. I dont think this particular case is a proof of your claim at all.
- 8note 5y agoDepending on the mine, I'd guess miner is a prexisting condition in and of itself
- throwawayboise 5y agoFrom the study: "Mine workers were mostly men (42/44); median age was 53.3 years. Eighteen of the workers had risk factors for severe COVID-19: high blood pressure (11/44), diabetes mellitus (4/44), or obesity (4/44)."
- Ostrogodsky 5y agoWhat is your point? You are not comparing against the general population to see if there is a difference. Also from the study: > Such a low vaccine efficiency against infection by the Gamma variant was not expected because in vitro studies have shown a similar reduction of neutralization for Beta or Gamma variants by BNT162b2-elicited antibodies (5) and a conserved CD4+ T-cell response against spike proteins from the Beta variant (6). So, no, this was not "business as usual", in fact the results are so shocking that the investigators wrote: > Given the surprisingly high attack rate, we hypothesized potential dysfunctions of conservation or administration of vaccines, but the absence of traceable cold-chain interruption and the use of different batches seemed to refute this hypothesis. So the study so far suggests that the Pfizer vaccines may well have an actual low effectivenes rate against this virus variant.
- throwawayboise 5y agoIt was in response to "I suppose those miners are strong healthy men" They were not. They were obese and hypertensive. That is unhealty no matter what vaccines you take.
- ianai 5y agoWhat I wonder is the other symptoms like long covid. We’d hope the vaccines would diminish the incidence of that, but I’ve not heard it. Probably too early for the newer variants.
- tinus_hn 5y agoIt should become obvious by now: As long as you care about detected infections the only solution is infinite lockdowns.
- _user112 5y agoDying means the Vaccine is working.