11 ms·

Reading between the lines it seems the writer has mainly watched American movies that are easily accessible. I recommend instead of scrolling through the Amazon

Reading between the lines it seems the writer has mainly watched American movies that are easily accessible. I recommend instead of scrolling through the Amazon catalogue like he described, he might want to see if there is a local film festival that screens world cinema. Cinema from other parts of the world for me often leads to great new perspectives and insights. Outside of Hollywood there is plenty of auteurs and refreshing cinema happening. Or take a deep dive into the best of the best without the American lens with lists like the TSPDT. https://www.theyshootpictures.com/ https://www.theyshootpictures.com/

samastur 5y ago
That was exactly my reading. I watched 75 films so far this year, most of them obscure at least in a sense that I had to make an effort to get them and while not all of them were great, a lot of them were interesting and that's after four decades of watching movies and seeing surely more thousands of them. I am sure I would feel similar to the article's author if I limited my choice only to what streaming services offer.
- ehnto 5y ago
  I think interesting and competent is what you might strive for after you've consumed enough of a type of media. You see it in music and video games too. Eventually the big hits and blockbuster games are all pretty boring, if you're an engaged consumer of the medium, you'll start looking for more novel ways to be interested, and start appreciating competency more than you used to.
drenvuk 5y ago
Maybe? I'm willing to bet that after 810+ movies he'll have seen all of the tropes and techniques trotted out by those outside of Hollywood. How many ways can you really tell a compelling story or possibly show an artistic experience?
- kijin 5y ago
  As long as you're not overly obsessed with identifying every variation of a cliche, there's plenty to enjoy. The stories will have different backdrops, and they can proceed in ways that foreigners might find quite unexpected. Different cultures have different assumptions about how to make a love story truly romantic, what's funny or weird, or what counts as a faux pas that eventually dooms the protagonist. Even the same trope can be executed very differently because of these factors. The cinematography will be different. The music will be different -- Bollywood BGM feels very different from K-Pop. The fact that you'll be reading subtitles all the time will certainly make for a fresh experience, especially when you're listening to something like Japanese where the sentence structure makes it difficult to translate the timing of the punchline into English. Action sequences will emphasize different things, often because of budget or location constraints, but sometimes simply because there was a local fad for something. There will be references to local traditions, literature, and historic events that make really interesting rabbit holes to follow.
- robtherobber 5y ago
  1770 films so far and as a European I'm more in awe with early Iranian cinema than ever. Definitely a world away from Hollywood, in the best possible sense.
  - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
    Any film recommendations for someone new to the genre?
    - jjgreen 5y ago
      Abbas Kiarostami - Where Is the Friend's Home?
    - robtherobber 5y ago
      (Sorry, I must've turned off the notifications in HN, because I never know when someone replies to a comment I've made.) Rather than recommending films, which can turn into a long list since I'd find it difficult to decide which deserves more attention, I've shorlisted a number of highly respected and influential directors that I've closely followed (not in a social media kind of way) * Majid Majidi * Abbas Kiarostami * The Makhmalbaf family (https://www.makhmalbaf.com https://www.makhmalbaf.com) * Dariush Mehrjui * Bahman Ghobadi * Jafar Panahi * Bahram Beizai * Asghar Farhadi Most of these managed to create amazing films despite being closely watched and heavily censored by the authorities.
res0nat0r 5y ago
Even easier: Criterion Channel. $10/month with the best movies from all over the world all the time. The current Neo-Noir and Wong Kar-Wai collections are worth at least quadruple that price out of the gate. https://www.criterionchannel.com/videos/neonoir-intro https://www.criterionchannel.com/videos/neonoir-intro https://www.criterionchannel.com/world-of-wong-kar-wai https://www.criterionchannel.com/world-of-wong-kar-wai
- clydethefrog 5y ago
  Unfortunately still not legally accessible outside the US. [Although I managed to get trial access with a VPN, but then I did not work anyway with a laptop running linux connected to TV with HDMI due to a certain DRM protection] I have been enjoying MUBI a lot, the European alternative to Criterion Channel. Especially since they added a fixed catalogue aside from their new movie a day model. They also usually highlight three great reviews as a companion reading to the movie plus the user base is delightfully snobby, with no low effort jokes like you will see on Letterboxd. They also do great retrospectives, currently Kelly Reichardt and Christian Petzold.
  - joshschreuder 5y ago
    I found Criterion to be quite easy to VPN actually compared to some other services. You have to use a VPN to signup, but watching the movies doesn’t require it which is nice. And they don’t have any issues accepting international payments either. (For reference, this was about 6 months ago, and I live in Australia)
    - thefringthing 5y ago
      I think the Criterion Channel catalogue does differ somewhat by country; I needed to use my VPN to watch Y tu mamá también from Canada.
  - mitjak 5y ago
    Criterion is available in Canada...
  - 5y ago
jonathanstrange 5y ago
I think so, too. Although I'm almost lost for cinema nowadays because of a lack of time (I write novels in most of my spare time), my girlfriend still goes to the cinemas very often and I know from her that I'm missing several outstanding movies every month. There are also good US productions every year. What the author perhaps means is the decline of US action movies. They have become faster and dumber over the years and arguably are mostly unwatchable by now, at least in comparison to action movies from the 1970s. Why have they become so bad? I used to think it's just because they are cut too fast and 30 minutes of unnecessary action is added at the end, but now I believe the scripts have also become worse. It would be interesting to hear from an insider like a script writer what has changed.
- antihipocrat 5y ago
  When I first witnessed Fury Road I thought George Miller had single handedly ushered in a new renaissance for action movies. Unfortunately no other directors have carried baton forward, and now I'm just waiting for the sequel..
  - bsenftner 5y ago
    Interesting. I feel Fury Road is a shining example of zero storyline shite, and George Miller to be an over rated hack.
    - Supermancho 5y ago
      My best friend and I watch hundreds of movies per year (about 1 every day) and we thought Fury Road was horrid as well. By contrast, Thunderdome, was a very smart film, as far as hollywood movies go.
    - antihipocrat 5y ago
      Are there any recent action movies that you thought were shining examples of the genre? If so, what about them did you like?
      - 5y ago
nextlevelwizard 5y ago
This might just be my problem, but I really hate subtitles. It takes me out of the movie and in dialog heavy movies completely pushes out the visuals.
- vincentmarle 5y ago
  I’m the opposite, I can’t stand watching TV or movies without subtitles because I want to know exactly what is being said at all times, and don’t want to miss part of the story because I couldn’t hear a couple of words. But, I’m also originally from Europe, so am quite used to it.
  - mercora 5y ago
    its often not at all exactly as said... also you might miss a lot of the performance if you are not able to see how things are expressed...
  - shrikant 5y ago
    I agree, I love subtitles, and prefer watching everything with (English) subtitles, even films/TV shows in English. Mainly because of the same reason as you, and just to add, I also watch a lot of stuff that has strong regional UK accents. Sometimes, it's not just the accent, but the regional usage of very specific slang that is simply just incomprehensible because I'm not familiar with the word's usage in that manner and can't infer from context, even if the words themselves are in my vocabulary. (A recent example that comes to mind is Derry Girls...) But I also wonder if there's something related to how people read that factors into this aversion to subtitles? For me, subtitles are almost invisible and I spend zero-to-negligible effort "actively reading" them -- they just sort of get absorbed by my brain while I'm watching what's on screen. So it doesn't really negatively affect my enjoyment or engagement with the show/film at all. I think maybe the folks that struggle with or dislike subtitles view the act of "reading" subtitles as a mental context switch that interferes with the parallel act of watching and listening.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    Watching English show with English subtitles is different, because I can just ignore the text (this is actually how I learned to watch movies since all movies in movie theaters here are subtitled so I just listened for the English words and watched the movie). Sometimes I do watch some TV shows with subtitles on (English dub & sub) if they have very inconsistent audio equalization i.e. during some scenes music is super loud and then they dip into really quiet dialog so I don't miss the beginning part.
DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
> the writer has mainly watched American movies that are easily accessible. I highly recommend Scandinavian crime drama's they are under rated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-OOpZitfd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-OOpZitfd0 the work of Jurgen Haabermaster is also outstanding for all those who want to break out of the bland diet Hollywood serves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAlxNNvfvJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAlxNNvfvJs on a serious note I found some fantastic serials that are not so well known and which I will remember for a long time (e.g. Indian "Sacred Games", Italian "Gomorrha" or "Suburra", British "Small Axe", USA "Snowfall", German "Dogs of Berlin" or "Dark", French "The Bureau"). In fact there wasn't a single show in the last 2 years where I felt I ended up wasting my time or were forced to bail out after S01E02 because it didn't resonate. The alternative to great serials is only a good book and from my pov a movie can never give the same depth as a good serial.
- kawsper 5y ago
  I'm so happy to see a Mighty Boosh reference here, one of the best shows ever created!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
dougmwne 5y ago
Yeah, that is my impression as well. Mass market film is extremely narrow by definition, and as Hollywood gets more globalized, the themes need to be even more narrow to be widely relatable. But video production costs have plummeted. You could make an incredible and quite experimental film with an iPhone and and a few freelance actors. I think the real problem is our discovery "algorithms" are winner takes all.
seb1204 5y ago
I agree. Even with Netflix I find myself looking for British, Australian or French productions I. Film and series as they seem fresh, less repetitive and deeper in character than recent American productions.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
I agree. I sometimes wonder if we will ever have the quality of films Hollywood made in the 60's, and 70's. (On technical note, I'm waiting for the day dubbing is perfected. I will watch a good subtitled movie, but prefer not to.)
kazinator 5y ago
> Reading between the lines it seems the writer has mainly watched American movies that are easily accessible. Bingo. I mostly gave up on those decades ago. Come on, I remember walking more than once into a Blockbuster video rental store (remember those?). I'd make a few rounds of the isles, come up empty-handed, then walk out the door. I started mostly going to an outlet called called Tom's Video on Grandview Highway in Vancouver, Canada. You could rent lots of Asian cinema there. HK movies, Japanese movies, Korean movies, Chinese movies, and from other parts of the world as well. The author of this blog has simply burned out on one kind of movie and lost perspective. A movie doesn't have to be entirely original. Even if the stories are tropes, there are always different actors, different cinematography and so on. Blues songs are more similar to each other than American movies, yet there is a point in coming back to the Blues. If you say, "what's the point of listening to the Blues; it's the same song structures and soloing cliches", you're missing the point.
riverlong 5y ago
Author here. I've watched a lot of international films, probably between 250 and 300. These are pretty much the only films I watch nowadays -- you're right that the American lens on film gets tiresome. Nonetheless, I still have many of the same issues with international film, given by constraints of the medium.
- mybrid 5y ago
  When I see these kinds of takes on movie quality dropping I typically encounter the impact CGI has had over time. I was surprised that you did not similarly decry the impact of CGI on cinema and the over reliance on it.

samastur 5y ago

That was exactly my reading. I watched 75 films so far this year, most of them obscure at least in a sense that I had to make an effort to get them and while not all of them were great, a lot of them were interesting and that's after four decades of watching movies and seeing surely more thousands of them. I am sure I would feel similar to the article's author if I limited my choice only to what streaming services offer.

ehnto 5y ago
I think interesting and competent is what you might strive for after you've consumed enough of a type of media. You see it in music and video games too. Eventually the big hits and blockbuster games are all pretty boring, if you're an engaged consumer of the medium, you'll start looking for more novel ways to be interested, and start appreciating competency more than you used to.

drenvuk 5y ago

Maybe? I'm willing to bet that after 810+ movies he'll have seen all of the tropes and techniques trotted out by those outside of Hollywood. How many ways can you really tell a compelling story or possibly show an artistic experience?

kijin 5y ago
As long as you're not overly obsessed with identifying every variation of a cliche, there's plenty to enjoy. The stories will have different backdrops, and they can proceed in ways that foreigners might find quite unexpected. Different cultures have different assumptions about how to make a love story truly romantic, what's funny or weird, or what counts as a faux pas that eventually dooms the protagonist. Even the same trope can be executed very differently because of these factors. The cinematography will be different. The music will be different -- Bollywood BGM feels very different from K-Pop. The fact that you'll be reading subtitles all the time will certainly make for a fresh experience, especially when you're listening to something like Japanese where the sentence structure makes it difficult to translate the timing of the punchline into English. Action sequences will emphasize different things, often because of budget or location constraints, but sometimes simply because there was a local fad for something. There will be references to local traditions, literature, and historic events that make really interesting rabbit holes to follow.
robtherobber 5y ago
1770 films so far and as a European I'm more in awe with early Iranian cinema than ever. Definitely a world away from Hollywood, in the best possible sense.
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  Any film recommendations for someone new to the genre?
  - jjgreen 5y ago
    Abbas Kiarostami - Where Is the Friend's Home?
  - robtherobber 5y ago
    (Sorry, I must've turned off the notifications in HN, because I never know when someone replies to a comment I've made.) Rather than recommending films, which can turn into a long list since I'd find it difficult to decide which deserves more attention, I've shorlisted a number of highly respected and influential directors that I've closely followed (not in a social media kind of way) * Majid Majidi * Abbas Kiarostami * The Makhmalbaf family (https://www.makhmalbaf.com https://www.makhmalbaf.com) * Dariush Mehrjui * Bahman Ghobadi * Jafar Panahi * Bahram Beizai * Asghar Farhadi Most of these managed to create amazing films despite being closely watched and heavily censored by the authorities.

res0nat0r 5y ago

Even easier: Criterion Channel. $10/month with the best movies from all over the world all the time. The current Neo-Noir and Wong Kar-Wai collections are worth at least quadruple that price out of the gate. https://www.criterionchannel.com/videos/neonoir-intro https://www.criterionchannel.com/videos/neonoir-intro https://www.criterionchannel.com/world-of-wong-kar-wai https://www.criterionchannel.com/world-of-wong-kar-wai

clydethefrog 5y ago
Unfortunately still not legally accessible outside the US. [Although I managed to get trial access with a VPN, but then I did not work anyway with a laptop running linux connected to TV with HDMI due to a certain DRM protection] I have been enjoying MUBI a lot, the European alternative to Criterion Channel. Especially since they added a fixed catalogue aside from their new movie a day model. They also usually highlight three great reviews as a companion reading to the movie plus the user base is delightfully snobby, with no low effort jokes like you will see on Letterboxd. They also do great retrospectives, currently Kelly Reichardt and Christian Petzold.
- joshschreuder 5y ago
  I found Criterion to be quite easy to VPN actually compared to some other services. You have to use a VPN to signup, but watching the movies doesn’t require it which is nice. And they don’t have any issues accepting international payments either. (For reference, this was about 6 months ago, and I live in Australia)
  - thefringthing 5y ago
    I think the Criterion Channel catalogue does differ somewhat by country; I needed to use my VPN to watch Y tu mamá también from Canada.
- mitjak 5y ago
  Criterion is available in Canada...
- 5y ago

jonathanstrange 5y ago

I think so, too. Although I'm almost lost for cinema nowadays because of a lack of time (I write novels in most of my spare time), my girlfriend still goes to the cinemas very often and I know from her that I'm missing several outstanding movies every month. There are also good US productions every year. What the author perhaps means is the decline of US action movies. They have become faster and dumber over the years and arguably are mostly unwatchable by now, at least in comparison to action movies from the 1970s. Why have they become so bad? I used to think it's just because they are cut too fast and 30 minutes of unnecessary action is added at the end, but now I believe the scripts have also become worse. It would be interesting to hear from an insider like a script writer what has changed.

antihipocrat 5y ago
When I first witnessed Fury Road I thought George Miller had single handedly ushered in a new renaissance for action movies. Unfortunately no other directors have carried baton forward, and now I'm just waiting for the sequel..
- bsenftner 5y ago
  Interesting. I feel Fury Road is a shining example of zero storyline shite, and George Miller to be an over rated hack.
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    My best friend and I watch hundreds of movies per year (about 1 every day) and we thought Fury Road was horrid as well. By contrast, Thunderdome, was a very smart film, as far as hollywood movies go.
  - antihipocrat 5y ago
    Are there any recent action movies that you thought were shining examples of the genre? If so, what about them did you like?
    - 5y ago

nextlevelwizard 5y ago

This might just be my problem, but I really hate subtitles. It takes me out of the movie and in dialog heavy movies completely pushes out the visuals.

vincentmarle 5y ago
I’m the opposite, I can’t stand watching TV or movies without subtitles because I want to know exactly what is being said at all times, and don’t want to miss part of the story because I couldn’t hear a couple of words. But, I’m also originally from Europe, so am quite used to it.
- mercora 5y ago
  its often not at all exactly as said... also you might miss a lot of the performance if you are not able to see how things are expressed...
- shrikant 5y ago
  I agree, I love subtitles, and prefer watching everything with (English) subtitles, even films/TV shows in English. Mainly because of the same reason as you, and just to add, I also watch a lot of stuff that has strong regional UK accents. Sometimes, it's not just the accent, but the regional usage of very specific slang that is simply just incomprehensible because I'm not familiar with the word's usage in that manner and can't infer from context, even if the words themselves are in my vocabulary. (A recent example that comes to mind is Derry Girls...) But I also wonder if there's something related to how people read that factors into this aversion to subtitles? For me, subtitles are almost invisible and I spend zero-to-negligible effort "actively reading" them -- they just sort of get absorbed by my brain while I'm watching what's on screen. So it doesn't really negatively affect my enjoyment or engagement with the show/film at all. I think maybe the folks that struggle with or dislike subtitles view the act of "reading" subtitles as a mental context switch that interferes with the parallel act of watching and listening.
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  Watching English show with English subtitles is different, because I can just ignore the text (this is actually how I learned to watch movies since all movies in movie theaters here are subtitled so I just listened for the English words and watched the movie). Sometimes I do watch some TV shows with subtitles on (English dub & sub) if they have very inconsistent audio equalization i.e. during some scenes music is super loud and then they dip into really quiet dialog so I don't miss the beginning part.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago

> the writer has mainly watched American movies that are easily accessible. I highly recommend Scandinavian crime drama's they are under rated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-OOpZitfd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-OOpZitfd0 the work of Jurgen Haabermaster is also outstanding for all those who want to break out of the bland diet Hollywood serves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAlxNNvfvJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAlxNNvfvJs on a serious note I found some fantastic serials that are not so well known and which I will remember for a long time (e.g. Indian "Sacred Games", Italian "Gomorrha" or "Suburra", British "Small Axe", USA "Snowfall", German "Dogs of Berlin" or "Dark", French "The Bureau"). In fact there wasn't a single show in the last 2 years where I felt I ended up wasting my time or were forced to bail out after S01E02 because it didn't resonate. The alternative to great serials is only a good book and from my pov a movie can never give the same depth as a good serial.

kawsper 5y ago
I'm so happy to see a Mighty Boosh reference here, one of the best shows ever created!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

dougmwne 5y ago

Yeah, that is my impression as well. Mass market film is extremely narrow by definition, and as Hollywood gets more globalized, the themes need to be even more narrow to be widely relatable. But video production costs have plummeted. You could make an incredible and quite experimental film with an iPhone and and a few freelance actors. I think the real problem is our discovery "algorithms" are winner takes all.

seb1204 5y ago

I agree. Even with Netflix I find myself looking for British, Australian or French productions I. Film and series as they seem fresh, less repetitive and deeper in character than recent American productions.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

I agree. I sometimes wonder if we will ever have the quality of films Hollywood made in the 60's, and 70's. (On technical note, I'm waiting for the day dubbing is perfected. I will watch a good subtitled movie, but prefer not to.)

kazinator 5y ago

> Reading between the lines it seems the writer has mainly watched American movies that are easily accessible. Bingo. I mostly gave up on those decades ago. Come on, I remember walking more than once into a Blockbuster video rental store (remember those?). I'd make a few rounds of the isles, come up empty-handed, then walk out the door. I started mostly going to an outlet called called Tom's Video on Grandview Highway in Vancouver, Canada. You could rent lots of Asian cinema there. HK movies, Japanese movies, Korean movies, Chinese movies, and from other parts of the world as well. The author of this blog has simply burned out on one kind of movie and lost perspective. A movie doesn't have to be entirely original. Even if the stories are tropes, there are always different actors, different cinematography and so on. Blues songs are more similar to each other than American movies, yet there is a point in coming back to the Blues. If you say, "what's the point of listening to the Blues; it's the same song structures and soloing cliches", you're missing the point.

riverlong 5y ago

Author here. I've watched a lot of international films, probably between 250 and 300. These are pretty much the only films I watch nowadays -- you're right that the American lens on film gets tiresome. Nonetheless, I still have many of the same issues with international film, given by constraints of the medium.

mybrid 5y ago
When I see these kinds of takes on movie quality dropping I typically encounter the impact CGI has had over time. I was surprised that you did not similarly decry the impact of CGI on cinema and the over reliance on it.