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Miami orders evacuation of 156-unit as structurally and electrically unsafe
- hprotagonist 5y agoI believe in CA, not FL, but the imgur user AlphaStructural usually has some truly hair-raising photo albums every week: https://imgur.com/user/alphastructural/posts https://imgur.com/user/alphastructural/posts
- throwawaysea 5y agoIt seems I can’t view that link on a phone unless I download the app. I didn’t realize Imgur has started blocking content from web browser users. For others here, requesting a desktop version of the website lets you view the user’s gallery that the parent linked to.
- notyourwork 5y agoOn Firefox requesting the desktop site worked for me.
- senkora 5y agoIt worked for me if you x out the overlay on the top left.
- whatever_dude 5y agoThat just redirects you to an unrelated highlights page.
- svnpenn 5y agoGod that website is just hot garbage now.
- underseacables 5y agoThe geology of Florida is terrifying. I’ve been reading about how a building like this could collapse, and I came across this interesting phrase, “sink hole alley” The area between Tampa and Orlando. The bed rock is so unstable that sinkholes have become ubiquitous.
- gabereiser 5y agoConfirmed, as someone living in “sink hole alley”. Also look up the sink hole of Epcot and what Disney engineers did to solve that. No one thinks of it when they visit Epcot but it’s there, under their nose, the whole time. [1] [1]: https://insidethemagic.net/2021/06/disney-world-massive-sinkhole-ad1/ https://insidethemagic.net/2021/06/disney-world-massive-sink...
- WarOnPrivacy 5y agoHere as well. Fortunately, there's been less subsidence since the rains started falling again, about a decade or so back.
- flatiron 5y agoIt’s almost the opposite in NYC. Huge buildings on solid foundations. Hard part is building. Everything you drop you need to build same day. Good luck organizing it!
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoThe new midtown superthins are held up by reinforced concrete and are swaying in the breeze. They're going to be a liability once enough cracks develop.
- kortilla 5y agoAll high rises sway in the breeze
- 5y ago
- jessaustin 5y agoCourt records showed the Crestview Towers Condo Association had sued its insurance company for unspecified damages from Hurricane Irma in 2017. The damages had exceeded $30,000, but the association never got a payment to cover the damages, the lawsuit said. The parties were ordered into mediation last May, according to a Miami-Dade court docket. A parallel federal lawsuit between Crestview Towers and the insurer says damage from Hurricane Irma was $8.1 million. Yes, let's evacuate a building that requires $8M of repairs.
- gruez 5y agoWell they don't want to fix it, and presumably the lack of repairs is dangerous. What is the government supposed to do? Do the repairs for them and send them a bill?
- jessaustin 5y agoNo, I meant what I said. The time for argument is over. Get those people out of that dangerous situation. Later we can investigate who should have paid what when.
- rpeden 5y agoThe who should pay part might be even more important now. As a condo the individual owners are collectively on the hook for repairs if insurance doesn't pay out. And they're now in possession of condo units they can't sell and also can't live in. Their individual homeowners insurance will presumably, hopefully cover them now.
- jessaustin 5y agoIf there are other insurers involved, they should already be running the lawsuit against the scam insurance company. If it only took a week to find another building like this, Florida over the next five years is going to be very good for attorneys and very bad for insurers.
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- icegreentea2 5y agoWait, the building manager was sitting on a re-certification report (that was required by the county/city) since Jan that said the building was unsafe? Wtf?
- jude- 5y agoYeah, sounds like someone needs to go to jail here.
- notyourwork 5y ago100% I imagine there will be much litigation and a bankrupt company at the end of this.
- falcolas 5y agoYou’re missing the “While the executives walk away and do it somewhere else”.
- canada_dry 5y ago"Crestview Towers North Miami Beach offers property for sale that are modern, well-maintained..." perhaps not. https://crestviewtowers.com/ https://crestviewtowers.com/
- 1270018080 5y agoOnly $182k for a 2br condo. What a steal.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y agoNorth Miami Beach commissioner Fortuna Smukler ... said authorities were working to help the evacuated residents find places to go. There may not be anywhere for them to go. Right now, FL rental ads are getting 400 applicants per day per property - and there aren't many new ads. source: I'm a FL renter whose rental is being sold.
- shusaku 5y agoThe Washington Post article in this talks about them contacting homeless shelters. > The city is working with Red Cross and a local homelessness organization to house those unable to find other shelter. > She said the 156-unit complex was occupied primarily by Latino residents, some of whom were very elderly. “They’re crying, they’re afraid for their future, afraid about what to do with the furniture,” she said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/02/crestview-north-miami-beach-evacuation/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/02/crestview-n... This seems unnecessarily cruel
- WarOnPrivacy 5y agoRental owners are cashing in and selling. Even people with a bit of cash in the bank will have to compete with hundreds of other applicants. My guess is that officials will find shelters full up, as this has been in play for a number of months now. At least the rental crisis will finally show up on someone's radar - not that they'll have any power to help.
- akudha 5y agoIs this everywhere in FL? Or just Miami? I used to live in WPB about 4 years ago. It wasn't that bad to find a rental at the time
- whymauri 5y agoMostly Miami, especially in the burbs and even hitting as South as Florida City.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
- etempleton 5y agoAs I said in another thread. I have seen many condo buildings in at least superficially worse shape than the one that collapsed in Miami. Especially in vacation / resort towns. This is tragic, but hopefully a wake up call. Condos aren’t managed the way other large buildings are. Structural engineers are catching the problems on inspection it seems, but perhaps have too little power to actually make the call on mandating maintenance and/or evacuation. Deferred maintenance by PG&E, well, the complete lack of maitenance caused the camp fire, the most deadly and destructive fire in California history, in 2018. And freight rail lines are handled much the same way—a major derailment at the wrong place causing catastrophic loss of life is just waiting to happen. My point, if I have one, is that we only seem to care about these things after tragedy happens, but I am not sure how much will change.
- runawaybottle 5y agoOur Infrastructure bill needs to finance inspections nationwide for buildings at this point.
- joelbondurant 5y agoA building collapse in California would be a huge windfall for city revenue as the estates of the deceased would be commandeered by parking fines.
- conover 5y agoCorruption seeps in everywhere. For more local flavor, the head of the Fort Lauderdale Public Works department quit today: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-ne-public-works-woes-fort-lauderdale-20210701-vbyevfspyffv3jsotodnjrjkqe-story.html%3foutputType=amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/local/brow...
- encryptluks2 5y agoThe Republican Mayor of Miami was recently making deals with a lot of cryptocurrencies like Algorand. His father was removed as mayor in the 90s due to massive voter fraud, and also supported cult leader Yahweh ben Yahweh who was convicted of conspiracy in more than a dozen murders
- profmonocle 5y agoI live in Minneapolis. Back in 2007 the I-35W bridge collapsed, killing 13 people. Engineers had previously reported that the bridge had structural problems. And once the collapse became national headlines news, bridges nationwide were given special attention. It shouldn't take horrific accidents for us to suddenly decide to care about structural safety.
- netsec_burn 5y agoSimilarly, it shouldn't take a security breach for companies to care about security. Poor budgets are what is eliminating the safety nets.
- underwater 5y agoIsn't this a predictable failure mode of capitalism and free markets? Entities are disincentivised from preparing for rare and catastrophic events.
- WalterBright 5y agoNo. The building was communally owned by its residents, and they squabbled for years about allocating money for the repairs. All economic systems begin and end with the lament "if only we had more money, we could do it right."
- lordnacho 5y agoI think the idea is that the market is supposed to work by the principals having good information about their situation and thus being to choose the best decisions. That's at least my one line summary. In this case it's hard to say someone else was to blame, because the principals had mostly not delegated the decision, they were literally deciding with their own lives at stake. If it were some principal agent problem you'd find a common excuse: it's the agents fault, they chose in their own interest and not the principals. And yet somehow they didn't decide to repair the building. So yes, even though we had a bunch of free adults with years to make the decision and the lowest interest rates ever, they didn't fix a thing that represents a catastrophic risk to themselves. No doubt someone will dig deeper into this and find some way the market was impeded, ideological wars being what they are, but it's hard to see how that would explain away the casual observation that people had the agency to avoid getting killed here. Note that I'm not arguing for more government control over these things, that tends to create an agency problem. Just puzzled over how it could get to this, and a bit questioning how useful it really is for people to decide these things themselves.
- gumby 5y ago> found that the 156-unit Crestview Towers had been deemed structurally and electrically unsafe in January Found unsafe but still inhabited until another building collapsed. Yet more third world conditions in the USA.
- dheera 5y agoI imagine that due to simple laws of increasing entropy, any structure will eventually collapse, it's just a question of when, not if. What do people normally do to check if a building is facing a possibility of collapse in the near future? I don't think I've seen anyone poking around at most buildings I've occupied before to check for structural integrity.
- yomly 5y agoWhile over any time frame a building will eventually collapse it's worth recalling that in europe many of the buildings are substantially older than those in the US. I foresee collapsing buildings becoming more and more of an issue for fast erected buildings from the past 50 or so years Slightly an aside but I believe that is part of the reason why leases in Singapore are often 99 years - because the government doesn't plan for them to last beyond then
- axiosgunnar 5y agoWho is „them“ referring to?
- yomly 5y agoThem = the buildings. This is pure conjecture but you could plan a cycle like the following: Build new housing development Sell all properties on it with 99 year leases When 50 years to go on lease conduct on block sale (maybe developer pays) Demolish and rebuild and restart 99 year lease cycle This keeps construction industry active on scarce land resource Keeps buildings fresh with latest materials and engineering principles Gives property owners an exit on their 99 year lease so household wealth doesn't evaporate Strategy folds when Singapore is no longer a desirable place to invest/build
- Ankaios 5y agoWhat would good regulation of condos and homeowners associations look like? Are there any locales that have models that are particularly worth emulating? What do they mandate?
- magwa101 5y agoSo NOW Florida likes government oversight.