27 ms·

HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests

384 points by tomohawk 5y ago

hkthrowaway88 5y ago
The CCP isn't going to stop with Hong Kong. The US needs to get its act together, stop flagellating itself about race, and present a viable opposition before it's too late.
seibelj 5y ago
There is an epic tv show to be made about underground freedom fighters in HK and what they do to subvert the gestapo. Just like there is a genre now of how different groups tried to subvert the nazis, it’s pretty clear that China is the modern-day fascist state, where disagreeing with the official party line risks your career and possibly your freedom. The only permitted disagreement is whisper-networks, and the moment any speech rises above low-level chatter it’s subdued with the iron fist. Interesting times. Hard to believe in 2021 over a billion people live like this, so sad.
- labster 5y ago
  Disney won’t even make gay characters in their animated films, so they can make lots of China dollars. So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.
  - seibelj 5y ago
    I'm thinking in terms of 50+ years. The optimist in me thinks freedom-oriented people will win - eventually. But historically speaking the US is an anomaly, and the older I get the more impressed I am that people in the 1700's wrote the US constitution, considering every few decades serious threats to its core ideals erupt but are ultimately quashed. What's even more crazy is 2 years ago saying the comment I did about China would have made me worried about my tech career in America. But now, people who previously supported and defended China need to back-pedal lest they are called out for supporting human rights abuses in the name of profit. It reinforces my belief that you should have principles that you stick with in all situations.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    Disney+ also got rid of Love Victor. now on Hulu we get at least some semblance of normative sexuality of queer people. though your comment sounds more like a threat, maybe just the standard CCP tinged thread though lol
  - elevenoh 5y ago
    >So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people. 'to deeply hurt the feelings of Chinese people'... why would you say that? And why would you jump into assuming malice? This is what I see 10 year olds do when cranky.
    - ximeng 5y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_...
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    Apple TV+ is claimed to have a policy to never do two things: hardcore nudity, and China. Report[0] by CBS gives hope that the industry is waking up. HBO announced a series about COVID in which they claim to not go soft on anyone, including the Chinese government. However, even presuming there is a channel that would be willing to air or stream the show, a series about HK freedom fight would be very hard to shoot in a realistic fashion. If it is to be released while the fight is ongoing, exposing actual people or even techniques that CCP doesn’t know about could very tangibly cost lives. Tangentially, such a show would give more ammunition for CCP’s propaganda that it’s the interference of the West that is causing the unrest (as opposed to Hongkongers themselves wanting freedom). The only way to shoot on location while the events are unfolding is if there’s solid trust between the participants and the crew that release will not happen in a way that would put individual fighters or the movement in even more of a jeopardy than there’s already. A mere contract is unlikely to be enough of a guarantee, given who they’re dealing with. There is a film about HK protests (banned in China, of course), but it mostly concerned itself with what was happening visibly on the streets. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgeRQkE3ED0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgeRQkE3ED0
- elevenoh 5y ago
  I'm wondering why this was downvoted. It certainly is a nightmare to think a billion people live under such a government.
wearehongkonger 5y ago
HongKonger here. We all know they are bullshitting but we just can't do anything. They got guns, the law or even backed by the court (yeah new judges post 1997 were appointed by the Chief Executive). People who did tried to resist are arrested, beaten or maybe even killed (of course no one is dead according to the official records).
wyager 5y ago
I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerable to bad PR, so generating a bunch of sympathetic imagery (photos of student protestors getting gassed or whatever) might not actually be useful in swaying political outcomes. The second mistake is assuming that most (putatively) peaceful protests in the western world are actually the impetus for political change, and not just part of a legitimization strategy for political changes that were already in development before the protest started.
- gameshot911 5y ago
  Thank you for your perspective.
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  > the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. I understand you are making a stylized appeal for liberal political change via violence. China's leadership has peaks and troughs of liberalism, and violence there, in the Soviet Union, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran and in many other places around the world was followed more often by a hardening, not a softening, of daily life. Violence in Hong Kong would delay liberalization and usher a vicious and oppressive crackdown. > legitimization strategy for political changes that were already in development before the protest started. Here you appear to know that the real strategy is waiting. Eventually, Xi will die, and it's more likely than not that his successors will liberalize.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > Eventually, Xi will die, and it's more likely than not that his successors will liberalize It is more likely there will be a contest for power. It could become violent, though that is unlikely. In that event, I see no reason to ensure like-minded Chinese are sufficiently armed, or at the very least informed. China's path changed when Xi installed himself as dictator for life. It's foolish to ignore that seismic shift.
betaby 5y ago
"Who control the past controls the future". Same is happening in Belarus at that moment. Most popular portal "TUT.BY" is removing everything from their Telegram channel.
- elevenoh 5y ago
  But the rate of increasing connectivity between a population has never been greater. I wouldn't bet against the trend toward net-freedom.
someperson 5y ago
The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an increasing number alternatives to Made in China, across all product lines as manufacturing moves to Vietnam (and the rest of South East Asia), India, Bangladesh etc as wages in China rise.
- northwest65 5y ago
  Maybe a better way would be to stop selling them food. We still want to buy Apple products, but they need to buy food.
  - throwawaycities 5y ago
    Remember during the pandemic when China threatened to stop selling masks, PPE and IVs? Immediately Trump stopped calling it “The China Virus” and then China “donated” millions of masks to the US for the international PR.
    - kova12 5y ago
      we all want to believe that we live in the world which gravitates towards good, rather than some game of thrones. But we all might be suffering from survivor bias. People don't work together well when there are too many of them. I personally won't be surprised if very soon shit finally hits the fan and those who live through it would be happy to merely stay alive
  - jawkx 5y ago
    "Starving the Chinese to own the CCP" and then blamed China for the famine after that, westerner are playing 4d chess man
  - femto 5y ago
    I disagree, in that the problem is the Chinese Communist Party, not the Chinese people. It's also contradictory to counter a bully by being a bully. Having said that: iron ore, not food. As a thought experiment: it would be most effective to target China's main imports: integrated circuits, oil, iron ore, ... [1] ICs are mainly used in exports so limited domestic impact, oil can be had from any number of despotic partners, iron ore on the other hand... Most of China's iron ore comes from Australia, and there is currently no alternative. If Australia refused to sell iron ore to China it would really screw up China's economy [2] (and Australia's): Proof of China's dependence on Australian iron ore is in the current sanctions the CCP is placing on Australia, as payback for Australia not kowtowing to the CCP [3]. The result has been a major loss of face for the CCP, in that it has made Australia's economy more resilient by forcing diversification of its export markets, in the process reducing CCP's influence, simultaneous with Australia's exports to China continuing to break new records [4]. No one is under any illusions that the CCP would dearly like to stop iron ore imports from Australia, but it can't. Eventually the CCP may be able to wean China off Australian iron ore, but chances are it will happen so slowly that Australia will have time to find new markets. Yes, Australia could screw China, as the CCP is trying to do to Australia, but that would only reduce Australia to the same level as the CCP and ruin Australia's goodwill with the Chinese people (the CCP is not China). [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=china%27s+biggest+imports https://www.google.com/search?q=china%27s+biggest+imports [2] https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/what-would-happen-if-china-stopped-buying-australian-iron-ore/ https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/what-would-happen-if-ch... [3] https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/if-you-make-china-the-enemy-china-will-be-the-enemy-beijing-s-fresh-threat-to-australia-20201118-p56fqs.html https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/if-you-make-china-the-enem... [4] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-26/australian-economy-coping-well-after-chinese-trade-restrictions/13090436 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-26/australian-economy-co...
_carbyau_ 5y ago
In this article, I was surprised to read that anyone thought "freedom of the press" still existed in HK at all. Once they took the boss of Apple Daily it was pretty clear. HK is governed by one system.
- gyzmau 5y ago
  It is, but what ramp up here is that they arrested people for having published opinion in the opinion section of newspapers hence why newspaper are removing their archive.
- est 5y ago
  https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-...
- dirtyid 5y ago
  Jimmy Lai + affiliates getting stomped for colluding with foreign forces is long overdue. Zero reason for HK publisher to meet with Pompeo and other US officials. Ditto with other politicians charged with collusion, i.e. those who asked US for sanctions to counter "one country" interests. One thing PRC intelligence is good at is catching spies and crushing foreign influence. The PRC "One System" which always had full authority over foreign policy and enforcing national security. This is 1Country2Systems finally working as intended. Two systems still exists - major orgs like HK Free Press still publishing as well as TheStrand mentioned in this article. It's merely finally reconciling with the 1country part that was suppose to be principal/take precedence over 2systems, but wasn't due to HK's inability to pass NSL for 20+ years. Have to wait and see how chilling effect recalibrates/normalizes after current phase of crackdown calms, i.e. see if HKFP and co still continues publishing or also get the rope. In which case 2system is truly dead. In the meantime, it's finally 1Country2Systems instead of just 2Systems, which was never tenable.
  - logotype 5y ago
    Warning, account associated with CCP.
akomtu 5y ago
Taiwan is next, in 10 years.
- est 5y ago
  Taiwan was like this 40 years ago.
- koonsolo 5y ago
  Taiwan is not easy to invade.
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    Neither was Ukraine.
    - hoseja 5y ago
      Huh? What feature of the steppe Ukraine lays on makes it difficult to invade?
      - tsjq 5y ago
        the grass ;)
      - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        It's hard to walk on. You have to watch your... steppe. Right, I'll show myself out...
    - kenneth 5y ago
      Taiwan is an island, Ukraine shares a flat plateau border with Russia and has a large separatist population. Taiwan is also uniquely important to the west in a way that Ukraine wasn't. Taiwan is a LOT harder to invade than Ukraine. Not comparable at all.
- robjan 5y ago
  The government of Taiwan does not report into the Chinese Central Government like in Hong Kong. It's controlled by an independent government on disputed land.
etaioinshrdlu 5y ago
If you are in HK and you're able, I'd recommend leaving and bring as much family with you as you can. It's not going to get better there, at this point.
- elevenoh 5y ago
  Vancouver, for one, is bracing itself for the post-protest/covid influx of hong kongers. I love seeing a lotta freedom fighting hong kong folks in vancouver.
- Seattle3503 5y ago
  Does it seem weird to anyone else that a foreigner would say this? Surely someone else living there would understand their own situation better.
  - smcl 5y ago
    Yeah I mean they're not wrong but I cannot picture who this is aimed at. Every resident of Hong Kong will already be acutely aware of the situation and will likely be weighing up the options at their disposal.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    Looking at memoirs of Central European Jews in the late 1930s, lots of them were unwilling to admit that it won't end with "Jewish only" post office hours. Things like real property weigh you down and lead you to wishful thinking. We all generally underestimate risks of many types of behavior. For example, sedentary behavior is pretty bad for your health, but how many smart commenters on HN find a reason not to exercise?
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Does it seem weird to anyone else that a foreigner would say this? Surely someone else living there would understand their own situation better. Yeah, it should be phrased as a welcome (e.g. come here, we want to take you), not a warning (flee now).
nine_k 5y ago
The most interesting idea I heard about the hand-over of HK is that UK should have offered a UK permanent resident (or even a citizen) status to all HK residents, once China started the pressure. Of course, HK's population is 11% of UK, not a small deal, likely such a bill won't pass anyway. But I also see it as a missed opportunity to bring in some world-class human capital.
- calcifer 5y ago
  BNO citizens (i.e most HK people born before the handover) can get a UK visa [1] with a direct route to citizenship. [1] https://www.gov.uk/british-national-overseas-bno-visa https://www.gov.uk/british-national-overseas-bno-visa
  - Lio 5y ago
    They can now. At the time this was not offered because the CCP was so against it. In order to get the 1 country 2 systems deal the UK had to shelve the idea at the time. It was a massive gamble but it was probably worth trying for a peaceful hand over. Since the CCP have broken their side of the agreement there's no longer a reason not to offer BNO citizens a route to UK citizenship now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- garmaine 5y ago
  They have. At least for the HK residents which predate the '97 handover and therefore have British Overseas National status. This is about 1/3 of the HK population which is now allowed to settle and work in the UK on a track towards permanent residency. If they can get the permission to leave, that is.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    It is notable that very few seem to have taken this path. Yet many seem to be protesting, despite it really looking like they have hardly any chance of their protests getting anything they want. There must be more to the story that I'm not seeing...
bhawks 5y ago
Empty words and token sanctions are not going to stop the CCP's blatant takeover of HK and trashing of the '1 country 2 systems' agreement. Real action - offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. Then go recognize the Republic of Taiwan as an independent country. Unfortunately the CCP is probably right in their assumption that our politicians are to greedy and spineless to make anything beyond a soundbite gesture. They'll keep expanding their borders, putting minorities in concentration camps, forced organ harvesting and researching interesting new viruses. We're all complicit, sickening really.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  The local government in Taiwan still claims all of China as its territory, why would they want to be an independent country with only one island?
  - bhawks 5y ago
    First off disputed borders are a very common occurrence in geo politics. It rarely prevents country C from recognizing both country A and country B. Outside of the Taiwan case I can't think of a situation where a border claim dispute effectively locked a country out of nearly all international forums (or crippled it to the point of having no significant voice). The situation is very unique to say the least, but let's be frank it is dysfunctional. Secondly reunification by any method along any short or long time frame has only a small amount of public support in Taiwan. (Recent polling: https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-china-and-cross-strait-relations-the-challenges-for-2021/ https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-ch...). It has been on a downward trend for quite awhile. Anyone suggesting Taiwan is going to make a forceful play to establish Taiwanese control over mainland china is beyond delusional. Very sadly the likelihood of the inverse happening grows higher day by day (both in CCP leaders talking points and military displays). Tldr I chose the words Republic of Taiwan very deliberately. :).
    - throwaway316943 5y ago
      The trouble seems to be that Taiwan is a government in exile, having lost to the CCP. Recognizing a government in exile is very different from recognizing the independence of state. If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized.
mrwww 5y ago
The CCP does not represent Chinese people and its sickening that they are so hell bent on controlling all of them.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  You can swap out CCP/China in your comment with pretty much any government/country though.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    For all its flaws, the US government does not try to control US citizens to the degree that the CCP tries to control Chinese citizens.
justshowpost 5y ago
According to Chairman Xi speech, Taiwan is next target.

384 points by tomohawk 5y ago

The CCP isn't going to stop with Hong Kong. The US needs to get its act together, stop flagellating itself about race, and present a viable opposition before it's too late.

seibelj 5y ago

There is an epic tv show to be made about underground freedom fighters in HK and what they do to subvert the gestapo. Just like there is a genre now of how different groups tried to subvert the nazis, it’s pretty clear that China is the modern-day fascist state, where disagreeing with the official party line risks your career and possibly your freedom. The only permitted disagreement is whisper-networks, and the moment any speech rises above low-level chatter it’s subdued with the iron fist. Interesting times. Hard to believe in 2021 over a billion people live like this, so sad.

labster 5y ago
Disney won’t even make gay characters in their animated films, so they can make lots of China dollars. So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.
- seibelj 5y ago
  I'm thinking in terms of 50+ years. The optimist in me thinks freedom-oriented people will win - eventually. But historically speaking the US is an anomaly, and the older I get the more impressed I am that people in the 1700's wrote the US constitution, considering every few decades serious threats to its core ideals erupt but are ultimately quashed. What's even more crazy is 2 years ago saying the comment I did about China would have made me worried about my tech career in America. But now, people who previously supported and defended China need to back-pedal lest they are called out for supporting human rights abuses in the name of profit. It reinforces my belief that you should have principles that you stick with in all situations.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  Disney+ also got rid of Love Victor. now on Hulu we get at least some semblance of normative sexuality of queer people. though your comment sounds more like a threat, maybe just the standard CCP tinged thread though lol
- elevenoh 5y ago
  >So good luck finding funding for your TV show to deeply hurt the feelings of the Chinese people. 'to deeply hurt the feelings of Chinese people'... why would you say that? And why would you jump into assuming malice? This is what I see 10 year olds do when cranky.
  - ximeng 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_...
- strogonoff 5y ago
  Apple TV+ is claimed to have a policy to never do two things: hardcore nudity, and China. Report[0] by CBS gives hope that the industry is waking up. HBO announced a series about COVID in which they claim to not go soft on anyone, including the Chinese government. However, even presuming there is a channel that would be willing to air or stream the show, a series about HK freedom fight would be very hard to shoot in a realistic fashion. If it is to be released while the fight is ongoing, exposing actual people or even techniques that CCP doesn’t know about could very tangibly cost lives. Tangentially, such a show would give more ammunition for CCP’s propaganda that it’s the interference of the West that is causing the unrest (as opposed to Hongkongers themselves wanting freedom). The only way to shoot on location while the events are unfolding is if there’s solid trust between the participants and the crew that release will not happen in a way that would put individual fighters or the movement in even more of a jeopardy than there’s already. A mere contract is unlikely to be enough of a guarantee, given who they’re dealing with. There is a film about HK protests (banned in China, of course), but it mostly concerned itself with what was happening visibly on the streets. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgeRQkE3ED0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgeRQkE3ED0
elevenoh 5y ago
I'm wondering why this was downvoted. It certainly is a nightmare to think a billion people live under such a government.

wearehongkonger 5y ago

HongKonger here. We all know they are bullshitting but we just can't do anything. They got guns, the law or even backed by the court (yeah new judges post 1997 were appointed by the Chief Executive). People who did tried to resist are arrested, beaten or maybe even killed (of course no one is dead according to the official records).

wyager 5y ago

I lived in HK 2018-2020, leaving around the passage of the “national security law”. I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. This is wrong for at least two reasons. The first mistake is failing to recognize that many governments (case in point) are not nearly as vulnerable to bad PR, so generating a bunch of sympathetic imagery (photos of student protestors getting gassed or whatever) might not actually be useful in swaying political outcomes. The second mistake is assuming that most (putatively) peaceful protests in the western world are actually the impetus for political change, and not just part of a legitimization strategy for political changes that were already in development before the protest started.

gameshot911 5y ago
Thank you for your perspective.
an_opabinia 5y ago
> the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective. I understand you are making a stylized appeal for liberal political change via violence. China's leadership has peaks and troughs of liberalism, and violence there, in the Soviet Union, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran and in many other places around the world was followed more often by a hardening, not a softening, of daily life. Violence in Hong Kong would delay liberalization and usher a vicious and oppressive crackdown. > legitimization strategy for political changes that were already in development before the protest started. Here you appear to know that the real strategy is waiting. Eventually, Xi will die, and it's more likely than not that his successors will liberalize.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > Eventually, Xi will die, and it's more likely than not that his successors will liberalize It is more likely there will be a contest for power. It could become violent, though that is unlikely. In that event, I see no reason to ensure like-minded Chinese are sufficiently armed, or at the very least informed. China's path changed when Xi installed himself as dictator for life. It's foolish to ignore that seismic shift.

betaby 5y ago

"Who control the past controls the future". Same is happening in Belarus at that moment. Most popular portal "TUT.BY" is removing everything from their Telegram channel.

elevenoh 5y ago
But the rate of increasing connectivity between a population has never been greater. I wouldn't bet against the trend toward net-freedom.

someperson 5y ago

The best way to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party and help pro-democracy voices in Hong Kong (and the reduce Uygher genocide) is to avoid buying Made in China goods where possible. This means buying Western, Korean and Japanese brands that aren't manufactured in China. Eg, a Samsung phone over Apple (made in Vietnam than Made in China), a Western Digital hard drive (made in Thailand) etc. There are an increasing number alternatives to Made in China, across all product lines as manufacturing moves to Vietnam (and the rest of South East Asia), India, Bangladesh etc as wages in China rise.

northwest65 5y ago
Maybe a better way would be to stop selling them food. We still want to buy Apple products, but they need to buy food.
- throwawaycities 5y ago
  Remember during the pandemic when China threatened to stop selling masks, PPE and IVs? Immediately Trump stopped calling it “The China Virus” and then China “donated” millions of masks to the US for the international PR.
  - kova12 5y ago
    we all want to believe that we live in the world which gravitates towards good, rather than some game of thrones. But we all might be suffering from survivor bias. People don't work together well when there are too many of them. I personally won't be surprised if very soon shit finally hits the fan and those who live through it would be happy to merely stay alive
- jawkx 5y ago
  "Starving the Chinese to own the CCP" and then blamed China for the famine after that, westerner are playing 4d chess man
- femto 5y ago
  I disagree, in that the problem is the Chinese Communist Party, not the Chinese people. It's also contradictory to counter a bully by being a bully. Having said that: iron ore, not food. As a thought experiment: it would be most effective to target China's main imports: integrated circuits, oil, iron ore, ... [1] ICs are mainly used in exports so limited domestic impact, oil can be had from any number of despotic partners, iron ore on the other hand... Most of China's iron ore comes from Australia, and there is currently no alternative. If Australia refused to sell iron ore to China it would really screw up China's economy [2] (and Australia's): Proof of China's dependence on Australian iron ore is in the current sanctions the CCP is placing on Australia, as payback for Australia not kowtowing to the CCP [3]. The result has been a major loss of face for the CCP, in that it has made Australia's economy more resilient by forcing diversification of its export markets, in the process reducing CCP's influence, simultaneous with Australia's exports to China continuing to break new records [4]. No one is under any illusions that the CCP would dearly like to stop iron ore imports from Australia, but it can't. Eventually the CCP may be able to wean China off Australian iron ore, but chances are it will happen so slowly that Australia will have time to find new markets. Yes, Australia could screw China, as the CCP is trying to do to Australia, but that would only reduce Australia to the same level as the CCP and ruin Australia's goodwill with the Chinese people (the CCP is not China). [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=china%27s+biggest+imports https://www.google.com/search?q=china%27s+biggest+imports [2] https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/what-would-happen-if-china-stopped-buying-australian-iron-ore/ https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/what-would-happen-if-ch... [3] https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/if-you-make-china-the-enemy-china-will-be-the-enemy-beijing-s-fresh-threat-to-australia-20201118-p56fqs.html https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/if-you-make-china-the-enem... [4] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-26/australian-economy-coping-well-after-chinese-trade-restrictions/13090436 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-26/australian-economy-co...

_carbyau_ 5y ago

In this article, I was surprised to read that anyone thought "freedom of the press" still existed in HK at all. Once they took the boss of Apple Daily it was pretty clear. HK is governed by one system.

gyzmau 5y ago
It is, but what ramp up here is that they arrested people for having published opinion in the opinion section of newspapers hence why newspaper are removing their archive.
est 5y ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-...
dirtyid 5y ago
Jimmy Lai + affiliates getting stomped for colluding with foreign forces is long overdue. Zero reason for HK publisher to meet with Pompeo and other US officials. Ditto with other politicians charged with collusion, i.e. those who asked US for sanctions to counter "one country" interests. One thing PRC intelligence is good at is catching spies and crushing foreign influence. The PRC "One System" which always had full authority over foreign policy and enforcing national security. This is 1Country2Systems finally working as intended. Two systems still exists - major orgs like HK Free Press still publishing as well as TheStrand mentioned in this article. It's merely finally reconciling with the 1country part that was suppose to be principal/take precedence over 2systems, but wasn't due to HK's inability to pass NSL for 20+ years. Have to wait and see how chilling effect recalibrates/normalizes after current phase of crackdown calms, i.e. see if HKFP and co still continues publishing or also get the rope. In which case 2system is truly dead. In the meantime, it's finally 1Country2Systems instead of just 2Systems, which was never tenable.
- logotype 5y ago
  Warning, account associated with CCP.

akomtu 5y ago

Taiwan is next, in 10 years.

est 5y ago
Taiwan was like this 40 years ago.
koonsolo 5y ago
Taiwan is not easy to invade.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Neither was Ukraine.
  - hoseja 5y ago
    Huh? What feature of the steppe Ukraine lays on makes it difficult to invade?
    - tsjq 5y ago
      the grass ;)
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      It's hard to walk on. You have to watch your... steppe. Right, I'll show myself out...
  - kenneth 5y ago
    Taiwan is an island, Ukraine shares a flat plateau border with Russia and has a large separatist population. Taiwan is also uniquely important to the west in a way that Ukraine wasn't. Taiwan is a LOT harder to invade than Ukraine. Not comparable at all.
robjan 5y ago
The government of Taiwan does not report into the Chinese Central Government like in Hong Kong. It's controlled by an independent government on disputed land.

etaioinshrdlu 5y ago

If you are in HK and you're able, I'd recommend leaving and bring as much family with you as you can. It's not going to get better there, at this point.

elevenoh 5y ago
Vancouver, for one, is bracing itself for the post-protest/covid influx of hong kongers. I love seeing a lotta freedom fighting hong kong folks in vancouver.
Seattle3503 5y ago
Does it seem weird to anyone else that a foreigner would say this? Surely someone else living there would understand their own situation better.
- smcl 5y ago
  Yeah I mean they're not wrong but I cannot picture who this is aimed at. Every resident of Hong Kong will already be acutely aware of the situation and will likely be weighing up the options at their disposal.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  Looking at memoirs of Central European Jews in the late 1930s, lots of them were unwilling to admit that it won't end with "Jewish only" post office hours. Things like real property weigh you down and lead you to wishful thinking. We all generally underestimate risks of many types of behavior. For example, sedentary behavior is pretty bad for your health, but how many smart commenters on HN find a reason not to exercise?
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Does it seem weird to anyone else that a foreigner would say this? Surely someone else living there would understand their own situation better. Yeah, it should be phrased as a welcome (e.g. come here, we want to take you), not a warning (flee now).

nine_k 5y ago

The most interesting idea I heard about the hand-over of HK is that UK should have offered a UK permanent resident (or even a citizen) status to all HK residents, once China started the pressure. Of course, HK's population is 11% of UK, not a small deal, likely such a bill won't pass anyway. But I also see it as a missed opportunity to bring in some world-class human capital.

calcifer 5y ago
BNO citizens (i.e most HK people born before the handover) can get a UK visa [1] with a direct route to citizenship. [1] https://www.gov.uk/british-national-overseas-bno-visa https://www.gov.uk/british-national-overseas-bno-visa
- Lio 5y ago
  They can now. At the time this was not offered because the CCP was so against it. In order to get the 1 country 2 systems deal the UK had to shelve the idea at the time. It was a massive gamble but it was probably worth trying for a peaceful hand over. Since the CCP have broken their side of the agreement there's no longer a reason not to offer BNO citizens a route to UK citizenship now.
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garmaine 5y ago
They have. At least for the HK residents which predate the '97 handover and therefore have British Overseas National status. This is about 1/3 of the HK population which is now allowed to settle and work in the UK on a track towards permanent residency. If they can get the permission to leave, that is.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  It is notable that very few seem to have taken this path. Yet many seem to be protesting, despite it really looking like they have hardly any chance of their protests getting anything they want. There must be more to the story that I'm not seeing...

bhawks 5y ago

Empty words and token sanctions are not going to stop the CCP's blatant takeover of HK and trashing of the '1 country 2 systems' agreement. Real action - offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. Then go recognize the Republic of Taiwan as an independent country. Unfortunately the CCP is probably right in their assumption that our politicians are to greedy and spineless to make anything beyond a soundbite gesture. They'll keep expanding their borders, putting minorities in concentration camps, forced organ harvesting and researching interesting new viruses. We're all complicit, sickening really.

lucian1900 5y ago
The local government in Taiwan still claims all of China as its territory, why would they want to be an independent country with only one island?
- bhawks 5y ago
  First off disputed borders are a very common occurrence in geo politics. It rarely prevents country C from recognizing both country A and country B. Outside of the Taiwan case I can't think of a situation where a border claim dispute effectively locked a country out of nearly all international forums (or crippled it to the point of having no significant voice). The situation is very unique to say the least, but let's be frank it is dysfunctional. Secondly reunification by any method along any short or long time frame has only a small amount of public support in Taiwan. (Recent polling: https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-china-and-cross-strait-relations-the-challenges-for-2021/ https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-ch...). It has been on a downward trend for quite awhile. Anyone suggesting Taiwan is going to make a forceful play to establish Taiwanese control over mainland china is beyond delusional. Very sadly the likelihood of the inverse happening grows higher day by day (both in CCP leaders talking points and military displays). Tldr I chose the words Republic of Taiwan very deliberately. :).
  - throwaway316943 5y ago
    The trouble seems to be that Taiwan is a government in exile, having lost to the CCP. Recognizing a government in exile is very different from recognizing the independence of state. If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized.

mrwww 5y ago

The CCP does not represent Chinese people and its sickening that they are so hell bent on controlling all of them.

Dah00n 5y ago
You can swap out CCP/China in your comment with pretty much any government/country though.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  For all its flaws, the US government does not try to control US citizens to the degree that the CCP tries to control Chinese citizens.

justshowpost 5y ago

According to Chairman Xi speech, Taiwan is next target.