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It absolutely blows my mind that people are hyped about a Supermarket started selling insulin at low cost. And I'm writing from Turkey which you would think it

It absolutely blows my mind that people are hyped about a Supermarket started selling insulin at low cost. And I'm writing from Turkey which you would think it would be terrible in managing any public infrastructure including health. My company pays equivalent to 400 USD per year for private health insurance, gives me unlimited access for surgeries, any treatment that I need to stay at hospital and a check-up per year. The insurance is valid in any private hospital including the ones that look like straight out of Space Odyssey. You know what's more interesting? If you think this is a good deal, then almost everyone in Turkey thinks this kind of service should be provided by public healthcare system and demand it. Not only for the people that can pay 400 USD per year. edit: I realized it sounds like you need to pay 400 USD for unlimited healthcare but you don't need to pay anything for the state hospitals. The insurance is for zero-cost treatment at the private hospitals. You do pay a contribution fee around 3-5 USD for every visit plus prescription at the state hospitals though. I believe it is for discouraging unnecessary visits to the hospitals but even that causes a stir.

ipnon 5y ago
“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.”
grecy 5y ago
> almost everyone in Turkey thinks this kind of service should be provided by public healthcare system and demand it In virtually all developed countries, it is provided. Hundreds of millions of people around the world live this way, right now.
- msandford 5y ago
  We could do it in the US too! Convince the Democrats to give up $x billions in $something to do universal healthcare and I bet you could get a bunch of Republicans to support it. The problem is that neither party wants to make deals. They both want to have their existing programs AND to add extra ones on too. Everyone follows their incentives. None of them have the incentive to make a deal and get de-elected. They have lots of incentive to grandstand and call the other side bad-guys for being bad and not agreeing to this thing that "we all know is moral and right" that clearly we don't have some kind of 90% super-duper extra majority that all agree it's right. If we did, it would most likely be done already.
  - ansible 5y ago
    > We could do it in the US too! Convince the Democrats to give up $x billions in $something to do universal healthcare and I bet you could get a bunch of Republicans to support it. Nope. Leaving aside the the current psychotic break the GQP is experiencing this year, universal health care is not something they've ever wanted. Why? Well, the insurance companies and for-profit hospitals have big lobbying efforts to ensure that sort of thing absolutely will not get passed. Because it would kill the need for them (insurance) or hurt profits (hospitals). UHC will not happen until there is serious reform with how politicians get elected, and how lobbying works.
    - msandford 5y ago
      > Nope. Nope to that! See I can make unfounded assertions too! It's fun. > Leaving aside the the current psychotic break the GQP is experiencing this year, universal health care is not something they've ever wanted. There's a difference between "I would never, ever vote for this under any circumstances because NO WAY" and "I'll get voted out if I allow an increase in spending on something that my voting base doesn't want". In the same way that Democrats couldn't go to their voting bases and say "see we got universal healthcare! " if they had to give up the necessary funding in other places in order to make it budget-neutral, Republicans could only hope to get re-elected if they could go to their voting bases and say "look yeah we compromised, but it was on a thing that was budget-neutral! We didn't get a tax break for you, but we did eliminate all these other $horrible programs!" I'm not saying that's good or right or what we want. But both sides are playing to their audiences and very much tuned in to what they want. That's what you have to do to get re-elected. That's why neither side is interested in compromising to make a deal. They'll get crucified for "not standing up for what WE believe in" and "compromising with that other side full of awful, evil people" I don't really like that the US hasn't done much legislatively in the last 20 years. But, I, personally, myself don't get to decide how all this works. And neither does anyone else.
      - ansible 5y ago
        You seem to be under the impression that the large blocks of voters actually understand and care about the issues. Large corporations and their considerable advertising and lobbying efforts are what's really important. Much of this effort is to frame issues to the public in the way they choose. The "stances" the voting base take are largely shaped by influence campaigns of powerful interest groups. Both major parties (the minor ones too) are affected by this. Though one of the groups has gotten even stupider recently, and they actively vote against their own best interests. Edit: grammar.
- racl101 5y ago
  It's never a really straightforward thing though. I'm from Canada and we have Universal Health Care which is great. So when it comes to health care many Canadians like to shit on the US. On the other hand, Canadians are always complaining about not making enough money, getting taxed high and stuff. And many dream about going to the US where their money making potential is apparently higher. So to many Canadians, at some point, the potential to make more money outweighs the UHC enough to leave Canada and go to the US to make it big. So depending on where you are the capitalist nature of the US is a terrible thing and the thing that provides opportunities not afforded by one's own country.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    Being in top 20 % of the USA is great and I know several talented people from my acquaintance circle who moved to America and made the cut. Being in bottom 20 % of the USA seriously sucks. That is the tradeoff...
    - Barrin92 5y ago
      It's not even really a trade-off because at the end of the day both live in the same country. The friction and dysfunction that is caused by this division also shrinks the space of the top 20%, who end up in a golden cage at best. I'm German from a low income family and I went to school with kids of millionaires and everyone walked through the same streets and went to the same bars. First time i went to the US I noticed what living in a bubble actually means. And the kids of the 'winners' seemed as neurotic as the kids of the 'losers'. There's an entire mindset of "if I not go into college X will I be where my parents are", "is such and such street safe", "should we move to X neighbourhood, is it better than Y". Even the "opportunities" that the people in the top 20% is basically are pure stress.
      - inglor_cz 5y ago
        "both live in the same country" Yes, but that country is fairly huge. Even in densely populated Central Europe, we tend to make fun of sheltered kids from posh neighbourhoods (how many low income kids are there in schools of Nobelviertel, Hamburg? Perhaps a few well-chosen refugees). This effect is ten times stronger in the U.S. I am not saying that this is right, just a description of the state. BTW Unsafe streets are definitely a thing in Germany (or Czechia, for that purpose) as well. No one will, for example, move voluntarily to a neighbourhood with a high percentage of Roma population, regardless of how anti-racist was their education. Or to the proximity of a well-known drug dealing space. European hard drug problem is quite acute in some hotspots.
mustacheemperor 5y ago
You get a whole check-up per year at that rate? Here in the states I had to see a doctor (in network with my health insurance) twice during the pandemic, each visit lasted under 40 minutes in an online video call, combined cost out of pocket: $1000 USD.
- giarc 5y ago
  How is this sold to Americans as a good option? Is it that you have "choice" of insurance providers? Is it that you might pay less if you are healthy? I don't get it, why do so many American's vote in politicians who advocate for this type of healthcare?!
  - mulletbum 5y ago
    They aren't voting for their own best interests. They are voting to stop people from killing babies and stop socialism (or whatever else they are told).
  - ansible 5y ago
    The debate in the USA is framed with the implication that if you (the health care consumer) does not have "choice" then you will be forced to only see a really terrible doctor, and get substandard care at a high price. And that, with a little effort on your own part, you will be able to select a better doctor at a affordable price. Therefore, if you have a bad doctor or expensive care, it is your own damn fault. You just didn't try hard enough to find a good one. It is the same thing with the debate about school vouchers vs. a standard public education for everyone. A heaping dose of "the free market fixes everything", for all life's problems. I would rather not have a "choice". I would like to be able to select any nearby doctor, and be assured of getting competent care. I'm not often in the situation where I have a wacky tropical disease that presents odd and incongruous symptoms, which would take a Dr. House to figure out. I am far more likely to have run-of-the-mill heart disease or a common form of cancer. I just need a doctor with some basic level of competence, who can just listen to me and help me through the common health problems of modern life.
    - 5y ago
softveda 5y ago
How much does the specialists earn in Turkey? In Australia Surgeons, Anaesthetists and internal medicine specialists top the highest earning professionals chart. Registered Nurses and allied healthcare staff also gets paid quite high. Then there is stupid high cost of prosthesis in a country where we do a lot of knee and hip replacements. Do you have those private space odyssey type hospitals distributed in the whole country or only near Istanbul?
- ArkanExplorer 5y ago
  Average Doctor's salary in Turkey is $2,200/month: http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=221&loctype=1&job=13&jobtype=2 http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=221&loct...
dougmwne 5y ago
The system in the US is exactly as crazy as it seems. It generates lots of profits and lots of financial hardship for patients. There is just about zero political will for any political party to fix the situation and we all expect it to continue to get worse.
gwright 5y ago
It doesn't make sense to just talk about insurance premiums if you are existing within a system also funded by tax dollars. Phrases like "you don't need to pay anything for the state hospitals" just means you are ignoring tax contributions, which isn't going to lead to any sort of reasonable comparison with other systems.
- memetcn 5y ago
  I'm not ignoring the tax contributions. You would pay 25-40% income tax for pension plus social security depending on your income. I'm super glad to pay that and willing to pay more if that means parents don't have to go "shopping for insulin at a supermarket" for their children. It's just insane and can't wrap my mind around it.
refurb 5y ago
Having experience healthcare in the US and middle income countries as well, it’s like comparing apples and oranges.
M5x7wI3CmbEem10 5y ago
A typical counter-argument to this is that America does have high prices; but those prices attract the best doctors and innovators in the world, who offer the best healthcare and health-tech in the world.
- mbfg 5y ago
  "Good Health Care" is a phrase used by healthy people.
airhead969 5y ago
Each medical appointment visit with Medicare part A (doctors) is $50-300 unless having a Medigap or Medicare Advantage plan run by for-profit corporations for an extra cost. Medications cost a ridiculous amount of month with Medicare unless you're very upoor to qualify for ExtraHelp to make Part D (medications) costs low. If you're not disabled or poor, you will soon go bankrupt if you have a chronic condition and do not have a job with benefits that include medications. America is shit.
- dang 5y ago
  We've asked you before not to post in the flamewar style to HN. If you keep doing it we are going to have to ban you, so please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this. Your comment would be fine without that last bit.

ipnon 5y ago

“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.”

grecy 5y ago

> almost everyone in Turkey thinks this kind of service should be provided by public healthcare system and demand it In virtually all developed countries, it is provided. Hundreds of millions of people around the world live this way, right now.

msandford 5y ago
We could do it in the US too! Convince the Democrats to give up $x billions in $something to do universal healthcare and I bet you could get a bunch of Republicans to support it. The problem is that neither party wants to make deals. They both want to have their existing programs AND to add extra ones on too. Everyone follows their incentives. None of them have the incentive to make a deal and get de-elected. They have lots of incentive to grandstand and call the other side bad-guys for being bad and not agreeing to this thing that "we all know is moral and right" that clearly we don't have some kind of 90% super-duper extra majority that all agree it's right. If we did, it would most likely be done already.
- ansible 5y ago
  > We could do it in the US too! Convince the Democrats to give up $x billions in $something to do universal healthcare and I bet you could get a bunch of Republicans to support it. Nope. Leaving aside the the current psychotic break the GQP is experiencing this year, universal health care is not something they've ever wanted. Why? Well, the insurance companies and for-profit hospitals have big lobbying efforts to ensure that sort of thing absolutely will not get passed. Because it would kill the need for them (insurance) or hurt profits (hospitals). UHC will not happen until there is serious reform with how politicians get elected, and how lobbying works.
  - msandford 5y ago
    > Nope. Nope to that! See I can make unfounded assertions too! It's fun. > Leaving aside the the current psychotic break the GQP is experiencing this year, universal health care is not something they've ever wanted. There's a difference between "I would never, ever vote for this under any circumstances because NO WAY" and "I'll get voted out if I allow an increase in spending on something that my voting base doesn't want". In the same way that Democrats couldn't go to their voting bases and say "see we got universal healthcare! " if they had to give up the necessary funding in other places in order to make it budget-neutral, Republicans could only hope to get re-elected if they could go to their voting bases and say "look yeah we compromised, but it was on a thing that was budget-neutral! We didn't get a tax break for you, but we did eliminate all these other $horrible programs!" I'm not saying that's good or right or what we want. But both sides are playing to their audiences and very much tuned in to what they want. That's what you have to do to get re-elected. That's why neither side is interested in compromising to make a deal. They'll get crucified for "not standing up for what WE believe in" and "compromising with that other side full of awful, evil people" I don't really like that the US hasn't done much legislatively in the last 20 years. But, I, personally, myself don't get to decide how all this works. And neither does anyone else.
    - ansible 5y ago
      You seem to be under the impression that the large blocks of voters actually understand and care about the issues. Large corporations and their considerable advertising and lobbying efforts are what's really important. Much of this effort is to frame issues to the public in the way they choose. The "stances" the voting base take are largely shaped by influence campaigns of powerful interest groups. Both major parties (the minor ones too) are affected by this. Though one of the groups has gotten even stupider recently, and they actively vote against their own best interests. Edit: grammar.
racl101 5y ago
It's never a really straightforward thing though. I'm from Canada and we have Universal Health Care which is great. So when it comes to health care many Canadians like to shit on the US. On the other hand, Canadians are always complaining about not making enough money, getting taxed high and stuff. And many dream about going to the US where their money making potential is apparently higher. So to many Canadians, at some point, the potential to make more money outweighs the UHC enough to leave Canada and go to the US to make it big. So depending on where you are the capitalist nature of the US is a terrible thing and the thing that provides opportunities not afforded by one's own country.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  Being in top 20 % of the USA is great and I know several talented people from my acquaintance circle who moved to America and made the cut. Being in bottom 20 % of the USA seriously sucks. That is the tradeoff...
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    It's not even really a trade-off because at the end of the day both live in the same country. The friction and dysfunction that is caused by this division also shrinks the space of the top 20%, who end up in a golden cage at best. I'm German from a low income family and I went to school with kids of millionaires and everyone walked through the same streets and went to the same bars. First time i went to the US I noticed what living in a bubble actually means. And the kids of the 'winners' seemed as neurotic as the kids of the 'losers'. There's an entire mindset of "if I not go into college X will I be where my parents are", "is such and such street safe", "should we move to X neighbourhood, is it better than Y". Even the "opportunities" that the people in the top 20% is basically are pure stress.
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      "both live in the same country" Yes, but that country is fairly huge. Even in densely populated Central Europe, we tend to make fun of sheltered kids from posh neighbourhoods (how many low income kids are there in schools of Nobelviertel, Hamburg? Perhaps a few well-chosen refugees). This effect is ten times stronger in the U.S. I am not saying that this is right, just a description of the state. BTW Unsafe streets are definitely a thing in Germany (or Czechia, for that purpose) as well. No one will, for example, move voluntarily to a neighbourhood with a high percentage of Roma population, regardless of how anti-racist was their education. Or to the proximity of a well-known drug dealing space. European hard drug problem is quite acute in some hotspots.

mustacheemperor 5y ago

You get a whole check-up per year at that rate? Here in the states I had to see a doctor (in network with my health insurance) twice during the pandemic, each visit lasted under 40 minutes in an online video call, combined cost out of pocket: $1000 USD.

giarc 5y ago
How is this sold to Americans as a good option? Is it that you have "choice" of insurance providers? Is it that you might pay less if you are healthy? I don't get it, why do so many American's vote in politicians who advocate for this type of healthcare?!
- mulletbum 5y ago
  They aren't voting for their own best interests. They are voting to stop people from killing babies and stop socialism (or whatever else they are told).
- ansible 5y ago
  The debate in the USA is framed with the implication that if you (the health care consumer) does not have "choice" then you will be forced to only see a really terrible doctor, and get substandard care at a high price. And that, with a little effort on your own part, you will be able to select a better doctor at a affordable price. Therefore, if you have a bad doctor or expensive care, it is your own damn fault. You just didn't try hard enough to find a good one. It is the same thing with the debate about school vouchers vs. a standard public education for everyone. A heaping dose of "the free market fixes everything", for all life's problems. I would rather not have a "choice". I would like to be able to select any nearby doctor, and be assured of getting competent care. I'm not often in the situation where I have a wacky tropical disease that presents odd and incongruous symptoms, which would take a Dr. House to figure out. I am far more likely to have run-of-the-mill heart disease or a common form of cancer. I just need a doctor with some basic level of competence, who can just listen to me and help me through the common health problems of modern life.
  - 5y ago

softveda 5y ago

How much does the specialists earn in Turkey? In Australia Surgeons, Anaesthetists and internal medicine specialists top the highest earning professionals chart. Registered Nurses and allied healthcare staff also gets paid quite high. Then there is stupid high cost of prosthesis in a country where we do a lot of knee and hip replacements. Do you have those private space odyssey type hospitals distributed in the whole country or only near Istanbul?

ArkanExplorer 5y ago
Average Doctor's salary in Turkey is $2,200/month: http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=221&loctype=1&job=13&jobtype=2 http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=221&loct...

dougmwne 5y ago

The system in the US is exactly as crazy as it seems. It generates lots of profits and lots of financial hardship for patients. There is just about zero political will for any political party to fix the situation and we all expect it to continue to get worse.

gwright 5y ago

It doesn't make sense to just talk about insurance premiums if you are existing within a system also funded by tax dollars. Phrases like "you don't need to pay anything for the state hospitals" just means you are ignoring tax contributions, which isn't going to lead to any sort of reasonable comparison with other systems.

memetcn 5y ago
I'm not ignoring the tax contributions. You would pay 25-40% income tax for pension plus social security depending on your income. I'm super glad to pay that and willing to pay more if that means parents don't have to go "shopping for insulin at a supermarket" for their children. It's just insane and can't wrap my mind around it.

refurb 5y ago

Having experience healthcare in the US and middle income countries as well, it’s like comparing apples and oranges.

M5x7wI3CmbEem10 5y ago

A typical counter-argument to this is that America does have high prices; but those prices attract the best doctors and innovators in the world, who offer the best healthcare and health-tech in the world.

mbfg 5y ago
"Good Health Care" is a phrase used by healthy people.

airhead969 5y ago

Each medical appointment visit with Medicare part A (doctors) is $50-300 unless having a Medigap or Medicare Advantage plan run by for-profit corporations for an extra cost. Medications cost a ridiculous amount of month with Medicare unless you're very upoor to qualify for ExtraHelp to make Part D (medications) costs low. If you're not disabled or poor, you will soon go bankrupt if you have a chronic condition and do not have a job with benefits that include medications. America is shit.

dang 5y ago
We've asked you before not to post in the flamewar style to HN. If you keep doing it we are going to have to ban you, so please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this. Your comment would be fine without that last bit.