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I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I gu

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working. Just try to install Virtualbox with secure boot enabled. I get the security concern, but why not let users install whatever they want on whatever hardware they want? Come on Microsoft, it's not like you don't already have a working kernel with arguably the best support in terms of drivers in the whole personal computing market. Also their "supported CPUs" list is a fucking joke. Why would they cut off first gen AMD Ryzen, for example when all Zen CPUs have full TPM 2.0 support built into the AMD PSP. The Ryzen 2000 chips they list as a minimum are basically the same in terms of features and very similar in performance to the previous gen. Zen+ is a slight improvement over Zen that didn't introduce any groundbreaking features to warrant such a cutoff point. Or are you gonna tell me that an Athlon 3000G will run Windows 11 better than a first gen Threadripper? Get your head out of your ass Microsoft, otherwise you'll be stuck with another Windows Vista.

ehsankia 5y ago
While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?
- numpad0 5y ago
  “There’s this cheap stuff for non-customers, go figure” I think I’ve seen a eerily similar remark on Xbox 360 when XB1 launched so… is that a part of Microsoft ethos? That time the guy said that was instantly cancelled though.
- eric__cartman 5y ago
  Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB of memory and an SSD. I'm not a big fan of generating unnecessary waste, and computers that get replaced because of artificial cutoff points in software isn't ideal. What I like about Windows 10 is that you can boot the installer on a Core2Duo if you want, and it'll install just fine. It'll probably run like crap, but that's for the user to decide whether they want to use it or not.
  - vetinari 5y ago
    I have (a secondary) Thinkpad T430s, which is going to be 9 years old later this year. Since it is i7, with 16 GB RAM and 500 GB SSD, it is still a better computer than a median laptop sold today.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      I have an old 2012 Asus G75VS gaming laptop with Core i7 upgraded to SSD and 32GB RAM. It works like a charm and beats modern cheap laptops to submission as well. However I do not really care if it can be upgraded to Windows 11. It runs few particular applications, is air gapped and will stay this way until it dies in order not to get some unwanted update/upgrade. But if it was something like my spare development laptop I'd surely be pissed off at Microsoft. The way this laptop runs
  - dunnevens 5y ago
    One of the ironies of this situation is that Windows 11 does well on the Core2Duos. At least the ones with 8 gigs / SSD, based on what I've seen people post online. I've seen people claim the 11 leak is performing better than 10, and 10 was running decently well on the C2D's. They did the work to make it even faster on older hardware, and now they're just going to throw it away? I could understand if the older machines didn't get the Android compatibility layer or if certain desktop animations were disabled, but seems odd to just block them entirely.
    - chasil 5y ago
      Are you sure that they are blocked entirely? A "hard floor" published earlier this week implied that only TPM 1.0 with a dualcore and 4gb of ram is required, although news emerged that the hard floor was revised up. Microsoft is not handling the hard floor question well at all. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requires-a-tpm-for-your-pc.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requi...
      - dunnevens 5y ago
- vetinari 5y ago
  First-gen Ryzens and Threadrippers, while they do support fTPM, are not supported in W11 and they won't be 10 years old in 2025.
  - snuxoll 5y ago
    This really gets me - my Ryzen 5 1600X and my wife’s Ryzen 5 2600 are still extremely capable chips, even if they’re a couple of generations old at this point. It’s only been 3 years since I built my rig, and two since I built my wife’s. I can almost accept the i5-4570 my daughter inherited not being compatible - but hardware just over 3 years old not making the cut is unacceptable.
    - MikusR 5y ago
      That i5-4570 is at least twice (single thread) as fast as some supported cpus.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  But who wants to be stuck on an older OS? It's still a big reason to upgrade before it would have been technically necessary.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on their daily use. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is the norm, not "What's the latest and newest? I must have it!"
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Ok true, but this is hacker news of course. I would expect most people here to be exactly that sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" :) And of course, the question is how hard is MS going to push Windows 11. They pushed the upgrade from W7 to W10 pretty hard towards end users.
      - Daishiman 5y ago
        Even the most die-had MS user is not excited about Windows and hasn't been for the last decade. Operating systems are finished products at this point.
        supernovae 5y ago
        People say this all the time, but it certainly isn't true. I for one, I am excited about Windows 11 because its finally things coming together. 64bit only, dropping old cruft, making the UI consistent/cleaner.. If you like tech/gaming - there is a lot to be excited about. PC and Console gaming with Game pass ultimate is a hell of a deal... Plus WSLg, Android apps ... i mean come on, its pretty f'n cool.
- contravariant 5y ago
  I've got a 10 year old PC right now using decent but not amazingly high end hardware (at the time), other than a slightly limited memory capacity it's still on par with my current (mid/high-end-ish) laptop.
- overgard 5y ago
  I'm still using a 2013 Macbook Pro (dual boot), and honestly, I could see that being useful for another 8 years. I won't be playing games on it, but it has enough GPU to render High DPI screens just fine. (Granted I feel no urge to upgrade to windows 11 either, so I'm pretty fine leaving it on windows 10 for the next few years.)
  - supernovae 5y ago
    MacOS Monterey is dropping support for the 2013 Macbook Pros... Windows 10 will be supported until 2025 so that is a hell of a run tho!
- thrower123 5y ago
  I only just retired a machine I built in 2011, with 2009-era parts. CPU advances have not been impressive over the last decade or so.
- mulmen 5y ago
  Just checked Newegg. I built my current PC in November of 2010. It has a Core 2 Quad. Runs great.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  They require an 8th generation Intel CPU. Intel was still taking orders from oems for said CPUs until April 2020 and there are computers sold new in box today that won't be supported.
mjevans 5y ago
I know someone that had to replace a Ryzen 1xxx (1st gen) chip recently because games and other things kept crashing. They realized this was the case shortly after the warranty elapsed. As a supposition, it might be the previously reported "Linux specific" issue for (pre week 30?) batch Ryzen 1 CPUs affecting Windows at last as well. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Segv-Response https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Se... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=new-ryzen-fixed https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=new-ryze... The second link confirms this instability was present in Ryzen 1 units from week 25, and speculation is that week 30+ are safe. Further complicating matters, there's no reported way of examining this data short of visually inspecting the top of the thermal interface: with thermal paste removed.
- merb 5y ago
  what's even more strange is that ryzen 1st gen chips in fact do have a tpm v2.
- numpad0 5y ago
  I think you might be mixing up segfault issues on Ryzen 1000 and RDRAND bug in Ryzen 3600. The latter affected games(and yes it’s Zen 2).
  - mjevans 5y ago
    I recall that affecting SystemD, it is a different issue. Generally at least the Linux kernel does not use RDRAND, even on Intel systems. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND#Reception ) The third party that had this issue only mentioned problems with their Ryzen 1 chip and replacing it (I forget if it was with a 2000 series or 3000 series chip) which resulted in those issues finally ceasing.
g051051 5y ago
I just noticed that my Threadripper 1950x isn't "supported". Completely ludicrous. I'd love to see the technical justification for that.
- eric__cartman 5y ago
  https://i.imgur.com/wHtf0PF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wHtf0PF.jpg
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    Do they actually earn that much from this? They were basically throwing Windows 10 at people for free and they are not in the hardware market at all.
  - g051051 5y ago
    How does limiting the number of machines that can run it make money for Microsoft? I won't be paying for a Windows 11 upgrade (I assume it's not going to be free this time) until I need to replace my machine, which will be quite some time.
    - einr 5y ago
      Windows 11 is a free upgrade if you have a Windows 10 license. You can't sell operating systems to consumers anymore, you have to sell OEM licenses to manufacturers, who in turn sell you a new computer with the new OS.
- supernovae 5y ago
  TPM 2.0 isn't supported on your chipset.
  - g051051 5y ago
    Yes it is. It's enabled in the firmware (fTPM) and shows TPM 2.0 available in the tpm.msc snap-in.
marcodiego 5y ago
Stopping trash talking about Linux was the embrace phase. WSL was the extend phase.
- zeusk 5y ago
  Not sure how not supporting old devices is extinguish for Linux but okay. I work at MS so I have some background, but even I was vocally opposed to this. The real pushback for hardware floor came from IHVs and PMs. IHVs don't want to support your old hardware beyond 2-5 years thanks to what they're seeing in phone market. We've had multiple user impacting bugs that graphic vendors I won't name would not fix because that version of chip is NLA. I'm still unsure why PMs pushed for this, but it was something about mix of consistency, security and performance - whatever that meant.
  - marcodiego 5y ago
    Check how more complicated it is to install linux and your own compiled kernels with secure boot enabled and a tpm 2.0 chip.
    - zeusk 5y ago
      I did a quick bing (hah, jk I used google) but didn't find anything other than having to install some tpm2 packages to use the module. Also, if tpm2.0 is as redundant as people are making it out to be, couldn't they just disable it in BIOS along with microsoft secureboot keys?
      - marcodiego 5y ago
        For BIOSes that allow such a thing, maybe... IIRC, at least for windows 8 on ARM, this possibility wasn't required or even desired: https://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2012/1/16/2710502/microsoft-secure-boot-windows-8-arm https://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2012/1/16/2710502/microso...
  - popinman322 5y ago
    I could see this as an ecosystem thing; Microsoft is maybe trying to push OEMs into using "more capable" hardware for some definition of "more capable"? Reminds me of the issues Vista had where it seemed to implicitly require higher spec devices. This could be a different approach to the same kind of pressure.
TheGuyWhoCodes 5y ago
I really don't see why they limit to 2.0 rather than 1.2 They could support both easily but choose not to. This could be their way to lower the amount of testing they have to do, but for a company the size of Microsoft that's inexcusable. That fact the 7th gen Intel (like the 7700k that has TPM 2.0) or first gen Zen aren't supported is bad enough but that Microsoft is silent about it and even their PMs and Security employees on twitter just brush it off as "There are more requirements" is pure BS.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  > This could be their way to lower the amount of testing they have to do Given the amount of testing they currently do, this is hardly an argument.
smarx007 5y ago
I think the CPU list and the S states are related to https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/bitlocker-sleep-mode-vulnerability-can-bypass-windows-full-disk-encryption https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/bitlocker-sleep-mode-vuln... in some way.
Zevis 5y ago
I seriously hope the EU becomes aware of this and forces MS to change this crap. It's actually insane from a sustainability standpoint.
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  It would be unreasonable to force MS to list old hardware as compatible in any case, especially given that 10 is officially supported until 2025.
JorgeGT 5y ago
Fun fact: Microsoft will happily sell you today a $3500 Surface Studio 2 with a W11-unsupported i7-7820: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m58t4 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m5...
- ChrisSD 5y ago
  Fun fact: the Surface Studio 2 is fully supported until October 2, 2024 with no need to replace the OS! Not bad for a niche device released in 2018.
  - FridayoLeary 5y ago
    Selling an extremely expensive piece of hardware while acknowledging that you intend on making it obsolete in 4 years time, for arbitrary reasons sounds pretty bad to me. And who cares if it's niche.
    - ChrisSD 5y ago
      Microsoft has made no secret of how long its hardware support lasts. If anything, the total of six years is longer than the Surface average of ~5. The Windows 11 announcement changes nothing in this regard. Edit: The first gen Surface Studio was also about five years (2016 - 2021).
      - lupire 5y ago
        It still absolutely terrible.
        ChrisSD 5y ago
        Ok but Microsoft's 4-6 years of support for their hardware has nothing to do with Windows 11.
    - tmccrary55 5y ago
      Given Microsoft's track record, Win 11 will be a trainwreck. Win 12 is what you'll want to wait for anyway.
madeofpalk 5y ago
> do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working isnt that the whole point of Linux?
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  The whole point of Linux is to be able to liberate yourself from corpo-dystopia like: https://youtu.be/o6QiN4Frl-g https://youtu.be/o6QiN4Frl-g If its masters made that harder, that sucks.
swiley 5y ago
>sort of reasonable I guess What part of that is reasonable exactly? As far as I can tell the TPM only weakens security by storing the keys in a separate computer, once there's an exploit with that someone physically attacking your computer could easily exfiltrate keys where they couldn't if you're just typing a passphrase into EG cryptsetup.
Arnavion 5y ago
>Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. 2.0 hardware has existed for a long time. Why would you prefer that they support 1.2?

ehsankia 5y ago

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

numpad0 5y ago
“There’s this cheap stuff for non-customers, go figure” I think I’ve seen a eerily similar remark on Xbox 360 when XB1 launched so… is that a part of Microsoft ethos? That time the guy said that was instantly cancelled though.
eric__cartman 5y ago
Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB of memory and an SSD. I'm not a big fan of generating unnecessary waste, and computers that get replaced because of artificial cutoff points in software isn't ideal. What I like about Windows 10 is that you can boot the installer on a Core2Duo if you want, and it'll install just fine. It'll probably run like crap, but that's for the user to decide whether they want to use it or not.
- vetinari 5y ago
  I have (a secondary) Thinkpad T430s, which is going to be 9 years old later this year. Since it is i7, with 16 GB RAM and 500 GB SSD, it is still a better computer than a median laptop sold today.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    I have an old 2012 Asus G75VS gaming laptop with Core i7 upgraded to SSD and 32GB RAM. It works like a charm and beats modern cheap laptops to submission as well. However I do not really care if it can be upgraded to Windows 11. It runs few particular applications, is air gapped and will stay this way until it dies in order not to get some unwanted update/upgrade. But if it was something like my spare development laptop I'd surely be pissed off at Microsoft. The way this laptop runs
- dunnevens 5y ago
  One of the ironies of this situation is that Windows 11 does well on the Core2Duos. At least the ones with 8 gigs / SSD, based on what I've seen people post online. I've seen people claim the 11 leak is performing better than 10, and 10 was running decently well on the C2D's. They did the work to make it even faster on older hardware, and now they're just going to throw it away? I could understand if the older machines didn't get the Android compatibility layer or if certain desktop animations were disabled, but seems odd to just block them entirely.
  - chasil 5y ago
    Are you sure that they are blocked entirely? A "hard floor" published earlier this week implied that only TPM 1.0 with a dualcore and 4gb of ram is required, although news emerged that the hard floor was revised up. Microsoft is not handling the hard floor question well at all. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requires-a-tpm-for-your-pc.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requi...
    - dunnevens 5y ago
vetinari 5y ago
First-gen Ryzens and Threadrippers, while they do support fTPM, are not supported in W11 and they won't be 10 years old in 2025.
- snuxoll 5y ago
  This really gets me - my Ryzen 5 1600X and my wife’s Ryzen 5 2600 are still extremely capable chips, even if they’re a couple of generations old at this point. It’s only been 3 years since I built my rig, and two since I built my wife’s. I can almost accept the i5-4570 my daughter inherited not being compatible - but hardware just over 3 years old not making the cut is unacceptable.
  - MikusR 5y ago
    That i5-4570 is at least twice (single thread) as fast as some supported cpus.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
But who wants to be stuck on an older OS? It's still a big reason to upgrade before it would have been technically necessary.
- userbinator 5y ago
  Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on their daily use. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is the norm, not "What's the latest and newest? I must have it!"
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Ok true, but this is hacker news of course. I would expect most people here to be exactly that sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" :) And of course, the question is how hard is MS going to push Windows 11. They pushed the upgrade from W7 to W10 pretty hard towards end users.
    - Daishiman 5y ago
      Even the most die-had MS user is not excited about Windows and hasn't been for the last decade. Operating systems are finished products at this point.
      - supernovae 5y ago
        People say this all the time, but it certainly isn't true. I for one, I am excited about Windows 11 because its finally things coming together. 64bit only, dropping old cruft, making the UI consistent/cleaner.. If you like tech/gaming - there is a lot to be excited about. PC and Console gaming with Game pass ultimate is a hell of a deal... Plus WSLg, Android apps ... i mean come on, its pretty f'n cool.
contravariant 5y ago
I've got a 10 year old PC right now using decent but not amazingly high end hardware (at the time), other than a slightly limited memory capacity it's still on par with my current (mid/high-end-ish) laptop.
overgard 5y ago
I'm still using a 2013 Macbook Pro (dual boot), and honestly, I could see that being useful for another 8 years. I won't be playing games on it, but it has enough GPU to render High DPI screens just fine. (Granted I feel no urge to upgrade to windows 11 either, so I'm pretty fine leaving it on windows 10 for the next few years.)
- supernovae 5y ago
  MacOS Monterey is dropping support for the 2013 Macbook Pros... Windows 10 will be supported until 2025 so that is a hell of a run tho!
thrower123 5y ago
I only just retired a machine I built in 2011, with 2009-era parts. CPU advances have not been impressive over the last decade or so.
mulmen 5y ago
Just checked Newegg. I built my current PC in November of 2010. It has a Core 2 Quad. Runs great.
michaelmrose 5y ago
They require an 8th generation Intel CPU. Intel was still taking orders from oems for said CPUs until April 2020 and there are computers sold new in box today that won't be supported.

mjevans 5y ago

I know someone that had to replace a Ryzen 1xxx (1st gen) chip recently because games and other things kept crashing. They realized this was the case shortly after the warranty elapsed. As a supposition, it might be the previously reported "Linux specific" issue for (pre week 30?) batch Ryzen 1 CPUs affecting Windows at last as well. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Segv-Response https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Se... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=new-ryzen-fixed https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=new-ryze... The second link confirms this instability was present in Ryzen 1 units from week 25, and speculation is that week 30+ are safe. Further complicating matters, there's no reported way of examining this data short of visually inspecting the top of the thermal interface: with thermal paste removed.

merb 5y ago
what's even more strange is that ryzen 1st gen chips in fact do have a tpm v2.
numpad0 5y ago
I think you might be mixing up segfault issues on Ryzen 1000 and RDRAND bug in Ryzen 3600. The latter affected games(and yes it’s Zen 2).
- mjevans 5y ago
  I recall that affecting SystemD, it is a different issue. Generally at least the Linux kernel does not use RDRAND, even on Intel systems. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND#Reception ) The third party that had this issue only mentioned problems with their Ryzen 1 chip and replacing it (I forget if it was with a 2000 series or 3000 series chip) which resulted in those issues finally ceasing.

g051051 5y ago

I just noticed that my Threadripper 1950x isn't "supported". Completely ludicrous. I'd love to see the technical justification for that.

eric__cartman 5y ago
https://i.imgur.com/wHtf0PF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wHtf0PF.jpg
- Sebb767 5y ago
  Do they actually earn that much from this? They were basically throwing Windows 10 at people for free and they are not in the hardware market at all.
- g051051 5y ago
  How does limiting the number of machines that can run it make money for Microsoft? I won't be paying for a Windows 11 upgrade (I assume it's not going to be free this time) until I need to replace my machine, which will be quite some time.
  - einr 5y ago
    Windows 11 is a free upgrade if you have a Windows 10 license. You can't sell operating systems to consumers anymore, you have to sell OEM licenses to manufacturers, who in turn sell you a new computer with the new OS.
supernovae 5y ago
TPM 2.0 isn't supported on your chipset.
- g051051 5y ago
  Yes it is. It's enabled in the firmware (fTPM) and shows TPM 2.0 available in the tpm.msc snap-in.

marcodiego 5y ago

Stopping trash talking about Linux was the embrace phase. WSL was the extend phase.

zeusk 5y ago
Not sure how not supporting old devices is extinguish for Linux but okay. I work at MS so I have some background, but even I was vocally opposed to this. The real pushback for hardware floor came from IHVs and PMs. IHVs don't want to support your old hardware beyond 2-5 years thanks to what they're seeing in phone market. We've had multiple user impacting bugs that graphic vendors I won't name would not fix because that version of chip is NLA. I'm still unsure why PMs pushed for this, but it was something about mix of consistency, security and performance - whatever that meant.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  Check how more complicated it is to install linux and your own compiled kernels with secure boot enabled and a tpm 2.0 chip.
  - zeusk 5y ago
    I did a quick bing (hah, jk I used google) but didn't find anything other than having to install some tpm2 packages to use the module. Also, if tpm2.0 is as redundant as people are making it out to be, couldn't they just disable it in BIOS along with microsoft secureboot keys?
    - marcodiego 5y ago
      For BIOSes that allow such a thing, maybe... IIRC, at least for windows 8 on ARM, this possibility wasn't required or even desired: https://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2012/1/16/2710502/microsoft-secure-boot-windows-8-arm https://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2012/1/16/2710502/microso...
- popinman322 5y ago
  I could see this as an ecosystem thing; Microsoft is maybe trying to push OEMs into using "more capable" hardware for some definition of "more capable"? Reminds me of the issues Vista had where it seemed to implicitly require higher spec devices. This could be a different approach to the same kind of pressure.

TheGuyWhoCodes 5y ago

I really don't see why they limit to 2.0 rather than 1.2 They could support both easily but choose not to. This could be their way to lower the amount of testing they have to do, but for a company the size of Microsoft that's inexcusable. That fact the 7th gen Intel (like the 7700k that has TPM 2.0) or first gen Zen aren't supported is bad enough but that Microsoft is silent about it and even their PMs and Security employees on twitter just brush it off as "There are more requirements" is pure BS.

Sebb767 5y ago
> This could be their way to lower the amount of testing they have to do Given the amount of testing they currently do, this is hardly an argument.

smarx007 5y ago

I think the CPU list and the S states are related to https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/bitlocker-sleep-mode-vulnerability-can-bypass-windows-full-disk-encryption https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/bitlocker-sleep-mode-vuln... in some way.

Zevis 5y ago

I seriously hope the EU becomes aware of this and forces MS to change this crap. It's actually insane from a sustainability standpoint.

jimmaswell 5y ago
It would be unreasonable to force MS to list old hardware as compatible in any case, especially given that 10 is officially supported until 2025.

JorgeGT 5y ago

Fun fact: Microsoft will happily sell you today a $3500 Surface Studio 2 with a W11-unsupported i7-7820: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m58t4 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m5...

ChrisSD 5y ago
Fun fact: the Surface Studio 2 is fully supported until October 2, 2024 with no need to replace the OS! Not bad for a niche device released in 2018.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  Selling an extremely expensive piece of hardware while acknowledging that you intend on making it obsolete in 4 years time, for arbitrary reasons sounds pretty bad to me. And who cares if it's niche.
  - ChrisSD 5y ago
    Microsoft has made no secret of how long its hardware support lasts. If anything, the total of six years is longer than the Surface average of ~5. The Windows 11 announcement changes nothing in this regard. Edit: The first gen Surface Studio was also about five years (2016 - 2021).
    - lupire 5y ago
      It still absolutely terrible.
      - ChrisSD 5y ago
        Ok but Microsoft's 4-6 years of support for their hardware has nothing to do with Windows 11.
  - tmccrary55 5y ago
    Given Microsoft's track record, Win 11 will be a trainwreck. Win 12 is what you'll want to wait for anyway.

madeofpalk 5y ago

> do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working isnt that the whole point of Linux?

shrimp_emoji 5y ago
The whole point of Linux is to be able to liberate yourself from corpo-dystopia like: https://youtu.be/o6QiN4Frl-g https://youtu.be/o6QiN4Frl-g If its masters made that harder, that sucks.

swiley 5y ago

>sort of reasonable I guess What part of that is reasonable exactly? As far as I can tell the TPM only weakens security by storing the keys in a separate computer, once there's an exploit with that someone physically attacking your computer could easily exfiltrate keys where they couldn't if you're just typing a passphrase into EG cryptsetup.

Arnavion 5y ago

>Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. 2.0 hardware has existed for a long time. Why would you prefer that they support 1.2?