11 ms·
Human Rapamycin Longevity Clinical Trials Begin
- starchild_3001 5y agoThis, TAME and TRIIM-X trials are the humanity's best hope (in the short term) to live longer. Until then, keep exercising, maintaining a healthy weight, and seeing your Dr regularly. Fasting too helps!
- saalweachter 5y agoTBH I'd probably be more excited about a pill that let me hit a healthy 90 while never exercising and eating all the bread and bacon, than one that let me hit 150 with healthy living.
- epmaybe 5y agoThis is one of those things that feels relative, in that we keep pushing the age of "good health" further and further as we, well, get healthier. What's if when you're 90 and healthy that you say, "it'd be nice if I could just take a pill and live to 150"?
- saalweachter 5y agoI mean, sure, great. But you can't enjoy years 90-150 without first surviving years 30-90. Humans are statistically bad at doing the simple things that would help us live longer, like eating right, exercising regularly, and getting enough sleep. Most of us aren't going to make it to 90, and it's about half-and-half cancer versus heart disease what will kill us along the way. Sure, I could exercise regularly, etc, and maybe reduce my chance of dying before 90, but as a statistical American there's an 80% chance I'm not gonna, and a 40% chance it will kill me. Hence, I'd be much more excited if they could fix that with a pill. Fixing the dying of "old age" as my cellular machinery slowly degrads, also good, but I've got to survive long enough for that to be a problem first.
- chii 5y agoIt's a choice that people make to _not_ exercise and eat healthy.
- amanaplanacanal 5y agoPast of the problem is that it is unclear what eating healthy means. Exercise seems to be good though, as far as we can tell.
- pps 5y agoJust in case you wasn't aware of this book and his research and studies: https://www.amazon.com/Longevity-Diet-Discover-Activation-Regeneration/dp/0525534075 https://www.amazon.com/Longevity-Diet-Discover-Activation-Re...
- buu700 5y agoI hear this sentiment a lot, and of course respect your position, but I think it's a lot easier to say this when 90 and 150 both feel inconceivably far away. Personally, I'd be perfectly happy eating my bacon with low-carb bread for my entire life and working out a couple times a week if it guaranteed an extra 60 healthy years (although I'm biased because I already do both of those things).
- burnished 5y agoNah,I don't do any of that shit but if I felt it was guaranteed I do as you do.
- melling 5y agoThat additional 60 years gets many people well into the 22nd century. Making it to 2130 could buy one an extra 20-30 years.
- redler 5y agoThe extra 60 could get you just over the big hump.
- wyxuan 5y agoNovo Nordisk's recently approved Wegovy works pretty well for your latter use case, and they're undergoing clinical trials for oral medication (it's currently administered via IV). iirc, the side effect profile was pretty mild nausea, so definitely a viable option if you're in the market for FDA approved weight loss/control drugs
- xvector 5y agoThat is very easy to say until you are 90 and on your deathbed. I guarantee you that if you were moments from entering that eternal and infinite void, and someone offered you a rewind button to take the second path, you would press it in an instant.
- saalweachter 5y agoBut what if I take that second path, and die at age 60 of a heart attack, because cake is delicious and cardiovascular exercise is 30 minutes a day I can't do other stuff?
- xvector 5y agoDo you have links to these initiatives? (TAME and TRIIM-X)
- starchild_3001 5y agohttps://www.afar.org/tame-trial https://www.afar.org/tame-trial https://www.google.com/search?q=TRIIM-X+trial https://www.google.com/search?q=TRIIM-X+trial
- germinalphrase 5y agoFYI: Radiolab did a podcast about the discovery of Rapamycin. May 21: “The Dirty Drug and the Ice Cream Tub”
- tootie 5y agoLink: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dirty-drug-and-ice-cream-tub https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dirty... Crazy story. Named for Rapa Nui because it was found in the soil on Easter Island. Smuggled into america by a scientist.
- ineedasername 5y agoIf it ends up working and is cheap enough for everyone then society will quickly have massive (more than now) issues with population growth & infrastructure that can't keep pace. If it works and it's expensive, it will create a class division if "Haves and Have-Nots" more awful enough to create civil unrest on an incredible scale. I hope it works, but if it does it's hard to see an implementation path that ends well.
- whatshisface 5y agoI don't know about you but I put more in than I take out. I'm fine with continuing to do that in one way or another for as long as I'm good for it.
- Ericson2314 5y agoI bet when your ecological toll is accounted for, you take out more than you put in.
- ineedasername 5y agoConsidering the ecological deficits the world is running, that's going to be true for the vast majority.
- Retric 5y agoIf you slow down aging the percentage of healthy people goes up making the elderly a tiny percentage of the population. Right now about 80% of men in the US live to 65. If you slow aging by 1/10 so someone at 650 would theoretically be as healthy as a current 65 year old only ~(0.8) ^ 10 or 10.7% of men live that long. Push it to say 1/100th and accidents are basically going to kill everyone while their healthy, in theory only about 7% of men would live to the equivalent of 30.
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- kgin 5y agoIts notable that is this is an entirely crowdfunded trial.
- low_tech_love 5y agoMaybe, but why? Surely there is a reason why this was not funded via the usual means?
- xvector 5y agoThe general public is unfortunately quite unsupportive of longevity initiatives. Death is a difficult topic for people to think about, and they convince themselves they're okay with it right up until they arrive at their deathbed, at which point the horror sets in - but it's too late. As such, longevity research is crowdfunded by a small community that is willing to face the existential horror head-on by acknowledging it and attempting to actually do something about it.
- phtrivier 5y agoArguably, I can't really blame funding bodies for being turned off by "we may have found an elixir for eternal life, do you want to give us money ?" Anyway, good fortune to them.
- xvector 5y agoIn reality, the discussion never even gets that far with potential funding bodies. A big problem with longevity research is that most people simply refuse to think about death. They both reflexively and purposefully avoid any and all thought about it. In any case, these organizations never promote something so radical as a potential elixir of life, but rather incremental improvements.
- bspammer 5y agoI think there’s a simpler explanation - the majority of people around the world believe in a soul / an afterlife. This was a useful belief for humans to develop when there was nothing we could do about death, but now it actively inhibits progress.
- elevenoh 5y agoFYI: Peter Attia (MD) is already taking Rapa himself. And he appears to be increasingly convinced it's effective in humans. I'd like to see life extension become a bigger industry than advertising within my lifetime.
- msolujic 5y agoYes, he talked extensively about rapamycin on the recent Tim Ferriss show podcast, in terms of its potential to extend lifetime. [1] Also, scientist who has found this compound and saved it in his freezer to be used for transplants rejection problems, applied rapamycin on himself when he was given 6m to live prognosis based on late stage cancer he had. He lived 5 more years, and died short after he stopped taking rapamycin, to prove it was responsible for the cure. Amazing story. [1] https://tim.blog/2021/06/08/peter-attia-2/ https://tim.blog/2021/06/08/peter-attia-2/
- low_tech_love 5y agoI know a guy who was given 3 months and lived 4 years without rapamycin. So…
- rantwasp 5y agolookup Alan Green. The original OG. A doctor that actually prescribes rapamycin for his patients. If you wanna go deeper, lookup papers by Blagosklonny ok rapamycin. It’s fascinating stuff. Also, do you know about the Dog Aging Project? yup Rapamycin trials on dogs.
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- jsharf 5y agoWell, if your life is extended, it'll definitely happen within your lifetime ;)
- steve76 5y agoIt's will power. Get old enough, you can turn it off and turn it on. Eventually you don't care anymore. I bet this just dopes up the "I care" part of the brain.
- tmandry 5y agoStudy design: Tracks 200 people over one year and measures a suite of biomarkers at the beginning, 6 months, and 12 months. Participants are randomly assigned to one of four dosages or a placebo. Double blind. The study hopes to find an optimal dose for humans using the various biomarkers as a guide. I’m not sure how well we can connect those biomarkers to actual longevity/healthspan. Source: https://www.lifespan.io/news/a-campaign-to-launch-rapamycin-human-trials-starts-today/ https://www.lifespan.io/news/a-campaign-to-launch-rapamycin-...
- Gatsky 5y agoRealistically you have to start with something like this before doing a huge 30 year study (with potentially the wrong dose).
- colordrops 5y agoThis stuff causes cancer at higher doses for current use cases. Even if it increases life span on average, couldn't it also increase cancer rates?
- rantwasp 5y agoi’m sorry but you’re spewing garbage. rapamycin is an immunosuppressor. what that means it’s suppressing your immune system (it’s normally given with organ transplants) at the normal dose, as a possible side effect of this suppression your immune system may not be able to fight cancer for example. To say that rapamycin causes cancer is an exaggeration. now, in this trial the dose is nowhere near what you would get for a transplant. it’s speculated that small doses have a hormetic effect and it actually stimulates your immune system to trigger biological garbage collection paths that normally are not exercised. as a result you end up with cells that are younger. at least that’s the theory. lookup MTOR, and mtor1 and mtor2. learn a bit about it before scaring people away from what could be a breakthrough way of treating aging
- adrianN 5y agoYour comment would contain the same information if you deleted the first sentence. It would also be much nicer.
- jcims 5y agoI sometimes wonder what would happen if you built a site like HN or reddit where, as a condition of membership, you sometimes are asked to really probe the depths of a comment you make. Why you selected specific words, who you expected to read your comment, how you expected the content and the style to be received, how you felt about its evident reception. Maybe haul other commenters or up/downvoters into the conversation, how the comment influenced their perception of the individuals in the thread, how they would view future comments from these individuals, etc. I’m guessing there have been studies of a similar nature, but not in a way that’s public or where you may get to know some of the participants before/after these little exposes. For my part i stopped reading the comment you replied to after the first sentence. People that don’t have enough self control in the instant to moderate their speech to a basic level of civility aren’t likely to follow it with nuanced perspective.
- mlac 5y agoIs this physical or mental longevity, or both? It would be awful if you had the body of a 25 year old with the mind of a 95 year old (forgetful, slow, dementia, Alzheimer’s). Those things that take older people quickly are much longer battles for “healthy” bodies. I am in my early 30’s, but my view right now is that I will live in the time I was born into and take reasonable steps to be healthy for a long life. I hope I get 60 more years with my wife, but when it is my time, it is my time, and I will accept that I have used the time and resources I was given. Jason Isbell’s song “vampires” comes to mind. Part of what makes life “life” is death. And spending too much excess time and energy (one’s life) on expanding future life is… trading life for life. But likely missing time with family and friends who likely won’t get to live until they are 160.
- kiba 5y agoThere's no reason to expect that mental or physical longevity to be isolated from each other. Especially since physical activities often impact mental health anyway.
- ALittleLight 5y agoIt's, in the optimistic case, both. At least from what I understand from listening to the radiolab story on it. Regardless, having the body of a 30 year old and the brain of a 90 year old is better than having the body and brain of a 90 year old. I don't understand people who say things like "I will live with the time I'm given". Do you reject modern medicine because that's an unnatural extension of your time? If you had a fatal illness that could be cured would you refuse treatment? Hand soap, fertilizer, and modern nutrition have likely extended your expected lifespan. Do you go without those as well? I think it can sound romantic to stick with your natural span. Especially if that span extends out for decades yet. I expect it's another matter entirely to be on death's door. A less selfish way to think about it is to imagine an elderly loved one. If your mother could take rapamaycin and live an additional 40 years in good health, would you prefer she die at 80? I think death is a very bad thing and having a way to put it off is very good. Fatalistic attitudes confuse the issue.
- whichquestion 5y ago
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- nradov 5y agoRapamycin has some significant bad side effects. It's hard to see how the net effect would be positive for most patients. https://www.pfizermedicalinformation.com/en-us/rapamune/dosage-admin https://www.pfizermedicalinformation.com/en-us/rapamune/dosa...
- xvector 5y agoIIUC the dosages trialed are far smaller than what is used for transplants. Let's wait and see how this plays out.
- low_tech_love 5y agoWhen I see something like this, I always ask myself: “There is a reason why this was not funded through the usual means. Why?”
- xvector 5y agoA massive amount of longevity research is crowdfunded by a small community of longevity enthusiasts. Lifespan.io and SENS are both crowdfunded. Unfortunately, death is a difficult topic for people to discuss and think about. It is mental hazard that induces existential dread, so it is very difficult to hold anyone's attention long enough to garner support for longevity initiatives. People convince themselves that death is in some indefinite future, and that they are okay with dying, but on the deathbed that fear and horror of the eternal void is always there. But if offered on their deathbed to give up everything they have for a chance to live longer, most people would take it at that moment without hesitation. However, we are immature beings, without a propensity for long-term planning, so most people neither donate nor advocate for longevity research. I think massive strides in longevity are possible today with enough research. The problem is funding. The problem is garnering social support. We spent trillions of dollars fighting COVID, which will affect a select few, but we cannot spend a minuscule fraction of that on aging, which has the same end result, but for everyone. It's shortsighted and sad.
- phtrivier 5y agoI suspect you might be reading a little bit too much into people's skepticism about anti aging research. Sure, death and aging are hard topics. But not having any more data about what funding bodies have to say, I would go for the sad and simpler explanation : all proposed "cure for aging" in the history of mandkind have turned out to be ineffective (either disappointing or scams) (Whereas "cure for fatal disease" have kind of a track record.) This, I believe, will end the day we have a tech that's "promising enough", but "enough" will be hard to reach. I don't find it unfair to have a higher bar to clear for "elixir of youth" than for "covid-19 vaccine".
- xvector 5y ago
- low_tech_love 5y agoIs there any history of things that were not funded via usual means in the past but ended being accepted and used extensively later?
- xvector 5y agoLongevity and healthspan research is perhaps the most important undertaking in the history of humanity. The scientists and engineers working on this are heroes to untold future billions. One day, we will be able to die on our own terms, when we want to go, instead of having our life and our loved ones' ruthlessly ripped away from us. And it will be thanks to these individuals.
- dvdkhlng 5y agoI cannot share this optimism. I wonder how a society would look like, where young people are the absolute minority and their demands and ideas drowned by the number and power of those who have lived for centuries, amassing fortunes, having used all the resources of the planet, so that there is no place for a next generation? But then maybe my thinking is influenced by having watched Altered Carbon [1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon_(TV_series)
- xvector 5y agoIt is easy to say something like that when you are not moments from an eternal abyss. These are problems we can work towards solving. They are not a reason to abandon longevity research that can and will quite literally save billions of lives.
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- dragonelite 5y agoIts not that different then generational wealth, we have families in the west that have built up wealth for centuries. But imaging how the west is sliding faster and faster into neo feudalism having to life as a serf forever does make it seem dystopian. But being immune to aging does give the human race other options where a 100 year trip might now be impossible if you can reach a age of 1000 a 100 year stellar trip might actually be acceptable. Does makes me wonder how many memories can the brain actually store and not degrade. when you go into your 4th century will you forget your 2nd century slowly.
- pseingatl 5y agoWhat's the recommended dose?
- toddh 5y agoHasn't ITP (Interventions Testing Program) already done this? https://www.nia.nih.gov/research/dab/interventions-testing-program-itp https://www.nia.nih.gov/research/dab/interventions-testing-p... Rapamycin – Increased mean and maximal lifespan in both males and females when initiated at 20 months of age (Harrison et al., 2009) and when initiated at 9 months of age (Miller et al., 2011). Females responded more robustly than males at equivalent doses; when ~ equal blood levels were achieved, response was also about equivalent in females and males (Miller et al., 2013).
- xvector 5y agoThis is in humans, not mice.