13 ms·

21st Century Baker's Tent

273 points by oblib 5y ago

nati0n 5y ago
Broken link.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bombcar 5y ago
Those emergency blankets don’t work like normal blankets - by trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting heat and keeping it in.
- jadyoyster 5y ago
  I'm not a physicist but wouldn't this reflective effect be tiny compared to the prevention of convective heat loss?
  - Cerium 5y ago
    I spent a night in the woods (on purpose, not a real emergency) sleeping with an emergency blanket. It was not at all comfortable, but the blanket seriously worked. I would wake up whenever it moved to stop covering me because it would instantly become cold, then feel much warmer as soon as the blanket is back in place. The reflective action is impressive. They also act as a wind break and turn whatever clothes you are wearing into a more effective measure against convective heat loss.
    - zwp 5y ago
      A long time ago I similarly tested a (non-heat-reflective) orange plastic survival bag, sleeping overnight behind some rocks on exposed moorland (something like https://www.military1st.eu/cs037-highlander-emergency-survival-bag-orange.html https://www.military1st.eu/cs037-highlander-emergency-surviv...). The poor thermal insulation and condensation were predictable. I hadn't predicted the shifting wind which chose to balloon my orange cocoon with cold air every 20 mins no matter which orientation I chose to lie in. I finished the night with a bungie cord around the sack, under my armpits. That of course left my head, shoulders and arms exposed but kept the wind out. Not recommended. After this experience I upgraded to reflective mylar survival bags. NB "bag". These are a little harder to find than survival blankets but if a bag can be so badly affected by moderate wind, a blanket would be so much worse.
    - swader999 5y ago
      I sewed one into my ski jacket. Always good to have in case of injury and help an hour away.
  - legulere 5y ago
    Considering average human body area is around 2 square meters and body temperature is around 37 degrees Celsius I get around 1000 W of radiation from the human body according to this calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/radfrac.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/radfrac.h...
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Or to put that in terms of net heat loss, in the 0-30C range you're looking at about 10 watts for every degree of difference between your skin and the environment.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Backing out human power consumption from caloric requirements comes closer to 120W constant output, at 2,500 kcal/day. The range is a low of about 50--75W (1,000--1,500 kcal, effectively starvation levels), and a maximum ceiling of around 485W (10,000 kcal day, perhaps a elite endurance athlete). Well below 1 kW in all cases.
    - snewman 5y ago
      Human skin temperature is considerably lower. (Or to think of it from another perspective, the system which is insulating your core temperature includes layers inside your body – skin, etc. – in addition to clothing, blanket, etc.)
- pengaru 5y ago
  > Those emergency blankets don’t work like normal blankets - by trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting heat and keeping it in. This reads as if to imply emergency blankets vent air freely, that's obviously not true.
  - snewman 5y ago
    Thermal insulation, whether we're talking about a blanket, a winter jacket, or the foam stuff in your walls, generally involves a layer of some thickness within which there are many tiny spaces full of trapped air. It's difficult for heat to propagate across those spaces. The author's point is that mylar emergency blankets do not provide this thick layer of "trapped air". It's true that they prevent air from crossing, but only for the very thin layer of the blanket. I'm not sure exactly how effective the mylar blankets are and under what circumstances, but this is what "trapped air" refers to.
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      Heat is transmitted by radiation, by conduction and by convection. A foam jacket blocks heat transmission by preventing convection. A mylar blanket prevents transmission by radiation and convection. Yes, it still loses heat to transmission but it isolates rather well. Unsurprisingly, that’s why they are used as emergency blankets.
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      You'd be surprised how hot surrounding oneself with mylar gets. I've been inside a grow tent lined with mylar, and even though it was open on one side, it felt like a sauna within minutes!
      - pengaru 5y ago
        Homeless people use garbage bags to similar effect, you don't even need fancy mylar, it's just an optimization. The main problem with these solutions AIUI is the trapped humidity.
- amelius 5y ago
  And they are not comfortable, as this post shows: https://www.reddit.com/r/CampingandHiking/comments/4wtetp/improving_a_sleeping_bag_with_an_emergency_blanket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CampingandHiking/comments/4wtetp/im...
  - dylan604 5y ago
    But if it is an emergency, and that's all you've got, it's a lot more comfortable than not having one. It's almost like they are purpose designed by looking at the name of the product.
throwawaysea 5y ago
I see no content on the linked page. Am I missing something?
- kstrauser 5y ago
  Little Snitch seems to think it fetches AJAX on a nonstandard port.
  - dec0dedab0de 5y ago
    yeah, its trying to get to cherrypc.com on port 6984. That's kind of strange. Work proxy won't let me see it, oh well.
- Etheryte 5y ago
  You need to have Javascript enabled because the content is faded in by a script, apparently. Here's a pastebin of the text, but the post includes videos too: https://pastebin.com/8UwWUyTE https://pastebin.com/8UwWUyTE
  - ajdude 5y ago
    I came here wondering if anyone else had that problem, yep, thanks for the pastebin.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Fails both Wayback Machine as well. That's a bad look. (I'd thought Archive.is also balked, though that now seems to work.)
motohagiography 5y ago
Amazing, when you add the idea of a Swedish rocket stove (https://hackaday.com/2021/06/01/disposable-rocket-stove-keeps-you-fueled-in-the-wild/ https://hackaday.com/2021/06/01/disposable-rocket-stove-keep...) this could make camping way more accessible. I've got some motorcycle camping planned, and own an auger for that stove purpose, but was looking for a tent, and this looks super interesting.
- andaluz 5y ago
  Better take something that could be used inside the tent and makes no smoke. So that you could make some tea or noodles while it rains outside. And no mosquitoes. Believe me, been there.
  - e12e 5y ago
    Looks like a carbon monoxide death trap if you close it up and light up inside...
    - andaluz 5y ago
      Nope, it looks like you're getting a hot tea and a warm meal. And the guy that's got only a smoky woodchip burner gonna have a cold water and the dry noodles :D
  - jointpdf 5y ago
    I would strongly advise against anyone cooking inside their tent (fire risk, animal magnet, carbon monoxide poisoning—all elaborated on here: https://sectionhiker.com/how-to-safely-cook-in-a-tent/ https://sectionhiker.com/how-to-safely-cook-in-a-tent/). Tents are usually very flammable—especially the mesh bug netting, which melts almost instantly even from the indirect heat of a lighter held a few feet away. If you have to in an emergency, then at least cook in the vestibule area (i.e. outside and away from the tent material) with lots of ventilation. PS: I think it is essential to embark on any camping/backpacking trip with a mindset of adaptation/sacrifice. You have to be willing to make conservative or uncomfortable decisions in the name of risk management (e.g. trudging through a stream and getting your shoes wet vs. attempting a dry crossing on a precarious log, or resisting the warm noodle cravings during a rainstorm). Besides, it makes the experience of returning to civilization that much more exhilarating.
PuffinBlue 5y ago
That's going to be a condensation fest in there. Pretty sure The Outdoor Gear Review did a real world test of something very similar. They 'work' in that they do heat up, but they're a lot of work and get extremely sweaty when made from those non-breathable plastic survival sheets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJwvH90g3Yw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJwvH90g3Yw For a more in depth look at using more 'appropriate' modern materials, 'Simon, A Bloke in the Woods' has a decent series on making a Baker Tent from scratch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Df0keicL5U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Df0keicL5U
- ghaff 5y ago
  Furthermore, there are a lot of places where you can't even have an open fire and/or there isn't a lot of wood. Cool experiment but tents and other sleeping arrangements like hammocks are a pretty well-trod area where real innovations are mostly through using new materials--one disadvantage of which is that super-light gear in my experience is increasingly fragile.
  - oblib 5y ago
    I think this experiment offers a glimpse into an area that might deserve looking into. For example, a breathable weave of that reflective coating on the inside of a tent might make it warmer rather you use a campfire or not and reduce condensation when compared to my garage built proof of concept made with off the shelf materials. As to places where you can't have a campfire, I addressed that at the end of the post. One of the things I didn't really talk about, but did show in the video a couple times, is that reflective bubble wrap I use for the floor of the tent. That stuff makes a great pad for under your mattress pad or bag. It makes a huge difference when you're sitting or sleeping on cold ground and it protects your mattress from rocks and other small sharp hole poking stuff, folded up it makes an awesome pad to sit on, and it's pretty light.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Bubblewrap is an interesting idea. It's also pretty robust and even if you get a puncture, you just affect one bubble. At the end of the day, I'm not really that interested in a lot of hardcore ultralight although my gear, for those occasions when I use it, is pretty light.
lixtra 5y ago
What happens if the tent catches fire? Does it burn?
- e12e 5y ago
  I'm guessing it'll burn, but perhaps not very well/too dangerously... But I'm sure there's a way to weld yourself in molten plastic if you're unlucky? Not certain which exact model is used - doesn't look like they're advertised as flame retarded? (most modern tents are) https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/shelters/heat-reflective-blankets/survive-oudoors-longer-reg-all-season-blanket.html https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/shelters/heat-reflecti...
- oblib 5y ago
  That plastic really doesn't burn too well. It's easy to test with bit of it and a bic lighter. And I did test it a lot and read up on it.
  - jupp0r 5y ago
    Polyethylene is highly combustable according to the FAA https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/05-14.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/05-14.pdf
    - lovemenot 5y ago
      According to that FAA document, PET (Polyethyleneterephthalate) is considerably less combustible than PE. This material seems to be BoPET (biaxially-oriented polyethylene terephthalate), which is aluminised PET. Presumably less flammable than PET, but not included in the FAA document. I am not an expert, and haven't tested it. Edit: I see now, that PE seems to be in the doorway.
  - mrfusion 5y ago
    But the part closest to the fire is a clear plastic sheet.
    - 5y ago
deleted_account 5y ago
It's a baker tent[1] made from SOL Emergency Blankets[2]. They get warm, but what doesn't when you have a long fire in front of you. [1] http://ruralsportsman.com/rediscover-the-baker-tent/ http://ruralsportsman.com/rediscover-the-baker-tent/ [2] https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/survive-outdoors-longer-emergency-blanket.html https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/survive-outdoors-longe...
- kag0 5y ago
  The idea sounds fun, but I'm a little skeptical of the author's claims that it'll get to 80 degrees with only a small fire in front of it. It's quite possible the author and I have different ideas of what a small backpacking fire looks like.
  - colonelxc 5y ago
    One of the videos has a kid read off a thermometer at 79 degrees (with snow on the ground). You can judge for yourself the size of the fire in that video.
  - oblib 5y ago
    I can say without any worry of being proved wrong that it is very easy to warm that tent to 80+ degrees with even a small campfire like the one seen in the video with my grandson bouncing around inside it. I use a layer of thicker branches about 3" in diameter first, then I use smaller diameter sticks in layers on top of that. When you light that off the smaller sticks burn down and create a bed of coals on the first layer that keep fuel burning as it's added. By design that burns low and slow. I'm also burning deadfall from hardwoods, Oak and Hickory by choice, and because that's what's growing in our forest here.
  - jandrese 5y ago
    Isn't that when you have the sun shining right into the tent? It's basically a human size solar oven.
    - oblib 5y ago
maiya9 5y ago
nice, looks great!
jordache 5y ago
that front panel looks dangerous.. fire facing and is made from flammable plastic sheets
- robscallsign 5y ago
  I thought the same thing, looks like a fairly thin plastic drop cloth that could start fairly quickly if the wind direction or strength changes.
Danborg 5y ago
It looks a lot like the Oztent RV-2 to me. https://www.oztent.com/products/tent-range/oztent-range/oztent-rv-2 https://www.oztent.com/products/tent-range/oztent-range/ozte...
Semiapies 5y ago
"It's said that Henry David Thoreau lived alone in a Bakers tent on Walden Pond." Who says this? Thoreau lived in a cabin and had his mother bring him food every day.
- mikestew 5y ago
  Thoreau says this, in The Maine Woods[0]. (EDIT: Thoreau says that he lived in a tent in Maine, not at Walden Pond.) The author of TFA got it a little wrong. Note to those wanting to replicate this: I'm pretty sure Thoreau's tent catches fire at some point. I'd have to re-read to confirm or deny if it had anything to do with setting the tent in front of the fire, as the author of TFA does. [0] https://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods.html https://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods.html
  - robocat 5y ago
    “A shed-shaped tent will catch and reflect the heat like a Yankee-baker, and you may be drying while you are sleeping.” Page 124: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page124.html http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page124.html “ We had no sooner pitched our tent than the thunder-shower burst on us, and we hastily crept under it, drawing our bags after us, curious to see how much of a shelter our thin cotton roof was going to be in this excursion. Though the violence of the rain forced a fine shower through the cloth before it was fairly wetted and shrunk, with which we were well bedewed, we managed to keep pretty dry”. Page 99: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page99.html http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page99.html “Our bed was made with as much care and skill as a roof is shingled; beginning at the foot, and laying the twig end of the cedar upward, we advanced to the head, a course at a time, thus successively covering the stub-ends, and producing a soft and level bed. For us six it was about ten feet long by six in breadth. This time we lay under our tent, having pitched it more prudently with reference to the wind and the flame, and the usual huge fire blazed in front.” Page 27: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page27.html http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page27.html I didn’t find anything about a tent catching fire, but I only skim searched.
    - 5y ago
themodelplumber 5y ago
Right on, that is really similar to Cody's Super Shelter from _Dual Survival_...I admit it blew my mind when I first saw it. https://youtu.be/EvKLOMgtM1Q https://youtu.be/EvKLOMgtM1Q (Cody throws in the "long-wave radiation" terminology for extra survival credibility points)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
qbasic_forever 5y ago
> All things considered this tent, at less than 3 pounds, is one the lightest 2-person, freestanding, tents around that can handle four-season conditions. 4-season tents are made to handle wind and snow accumulation, which this thing definitely would fail. It's a fun exercise for bushcrafting but don't kid yourself and think you can go 15k+ feet up a mountain and survive 50mph wind gusts like you could in a Hilleberg or other true 4 season tent. I'm a big fan of tarps and tents with pyramid designs--the MLD trailstar is an awesome shelter that's proven itself well in windy, rainy Scottish highlands and is a favorite shelter for backpackers there: https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/trailstar/ https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/trailstar/
- mikestew 5y ago
  One of the Hillebergs I have is four-season and weighs 3 lbs., including the poles. I can have it up in ten minutes, tops. The tent in the article might weigh 3 lbs., but that doesn't include the tree branches one is going to have to scrounge for to make tent poles. So if, as you mention, one is at 15K feet then snow accumulation is the least of one's worries if you can't find any tent poles above the tree line. :-) I mean, it could be a cool design to play with but it has a somewhat limited range of usefulness.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    It's a little like igloos and snow caves. Fun to play around with once or twice but not really practical in general.
    - jupp0r 5y ago
      Snow caves can be quite practical if the snow and terrain are suitable for them. Not a reason not to carry a tent but I've built snow caves even though I had a tent with me because they are so much more comfortable.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        Hence "in general" :-) Snow caves are probably more practical than igloos for a night or two but can still involve a fair bit of physical work and hence getting sweaty. Don't really disagree that snow caves can sometimes be fairly practical in the winter in the right snow conditions.
kragen 5y ago
Works fine for me, but https://archive.fo/kMceI https://archive.fo/kMceI is a possible alternative if you're having trouble with the JS.
eagsalazar2 5y ago
Modern backpacking tents have achieved an exquisite pinnacle of engineering and usability perfection. I am a UX baby (constant whining about almost every tool/service/product I interact with, sorry to everyone who has to be around me) and I love my tent. It is magical the degree to which it has been thoughtfully optimized in so many little ways. DIY tents like this one are interesting and fun if you are into geeking on that sort of thing but honestly seem like a pain to set up and likely to have severe condensation issues (as others have mentioned) but, seriously, I appreciate the geekery here, just not my focus. I prefer to invest my camping DIY geekery on bushwhacking and cooking.
- tucosan 5y ago
  Now you need to tell us which tent you own.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    Seconded. I'm working up to a 50 mile trip and I'd love some recommendations.
    - qbasic_forever 5y ago
      I'm guessing it's a Zpacks Duplex, it's basically the favorite tent of any through-hiker for the last couple years: https://zpacks.com/products/duplex-tent https://zpacks.com/products/duplex-tent They are very well designed and built--100% DCF so they're strong and light, yet great resistance to weather. Unlike most other UL shelters it makes almost no sacrifices and has all the niceties of heavier shelters, like a full floor and interior mesh, big vestibules, etc. And it packs up into an impossibly small size and weight in your pack.
      - newsbinator 5y ago
        > Weight 19.0 oz / 539 g Wow!!
        5y ago
jupp0r 5y ago
Having a camp fire right next to a tent made of highly flammable polyethylene seems like ... less great of an idea.
Implicated 5y ago
For those of you who are also gear-heads geeking out about tents and what not, I built this service quite some years back now to aggregate a bunch of lightweight focused used gear markets along with some notification features. It’s got a lot of the cottage gear manufacturers mentioned in this thread - part of the goal with building the site was to try to bring some awareness to their services! [1] https://lwhiker.com https://lwhiker.com
bikamonki 5y ago
It is not clear to me, after reading this nice piece, if the fire must be kept alive all night long in order to keep the tent warm?
- oblib 5y ago
  You can build and manage a fire to burn slow, but yea, you do have to get up and add fuel as needed. Depending where you are, if you can orient the face of the tent towards the sunrise that might warm it up some (so you could snooze a little longer). I've never done that yet though so I can't say how much. Now I'm curious to know how much that will warm it.
probotect0r 5y ago
Those interested in making your own gear should check out r/myog. Lots of good content there.
- oblib 5y ago
  Thank you for the suggestion. Sounds like my kinda place!
mrfusion 5y ago
I don’t like the plastic that close to the fire especially overnight.
rvba 5y ago
70 degrees inside tent? Ah it is Fahrenheit, so 21 degrees Celcius...
mrfusion 5y ago
At the top of my wishlist for a tent is some level of animal protection. I get unreasonably afraid of bears especially when I’m half asleep.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  I've been somewhat concerned about bears as well, though I wonder if just tying a bell to a string and around some trees would help.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    You'd need to string a perimeter around the tent. Might give you time to get the bear spray ready.
  - mrfusion 5y ago
    I’ve thought of that but I’d have a such a panic at any false alarm. Wind, racoons, etc.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  I wouldn't call that unreasonable, but it's not physically possible for a tent to even slow a bear down if it wants to get in. In my town, bears have gotten into houses and garages by tearing the front doors off their hinges, and by tearing through a house's siding and sheathing. I recommend car camping in bear country.
  - rascul 5y ago
    Bears can potentially open car doors. https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/have-you-seen/2021/05/04/black-bears-open-parked-car-door-and-explore-whats-inside/4937852001/ https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/have-you-seen/2021/05/0...
    - swader999 5y ago
      They also go through open windows. Saw an interior get totaled all because some m&m's were left on the dash.
Fricken 5y ago
In scouts we winter camped in lean-tos made from sticks and spruce boughs. We would build a wall behind the fire to reflect heat into the lean-to. It works well enough in a survival situation. It's best to just have a sleeping bag rated for the conditions. Gathering wood and stoking up the fire every 45 minutes is too much of a hassle.
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hellbannedguy 5y ago
Speaking of tents. What's America going to do with the hugh spike in homelessness we are going to see? Personally, I feel all unused federal, state, and local land should be available for free camping. Free camping witout harassment from authorities? Maybe bring back homesteading? Yes---there are a lot of really bad, non-livable, jobs supposedly begging for help. I don't see it in my county (Marin County). My point is the authorities might not be successful in their anti-homeless remedies they used in the past, like that Broken Window civil rights fiasco, or plain out harrasement like they are so comfortable with, like ticketing for sleeping in a park, or loitering infractions until they move on. The Supreme Court homelessness ruling is putting a hitch their usual giddup? I foresee a hugh spike in homelessness, and would like to see politicians talk about it. I'm an idiot, and can see the writing on the wall. They must know what's going to happen? We are not going to just reopen, and everything will be fine. It was pretty terrible before the pandemic.
- muricula 5y ago
  The spike in homelessness is already here, just not in your county. Some counties deliberately force out homeless folks and push them to neighboring cities, which may be the case where you live. Seattle saw a 6% rise last year: https://apnews.com/article/seattle-washington-coronavirus-pandemic-homelessness-e989adaa17c89db0eddaa6732a3b9fc1 https://apnews.com/article/seattle-washington-coronavirus-pa... The Tenderloin, SF saw a 285% rise(!) last year: https://abc7news.com/homeless-in-san-francisco-coronavirus-sf-help/6158835/ https://abc7news.com/homeless-in-san-francisco-coronavirus-s...
jacobsenscott 5y ago
I've never really had a problem staying warm winter camping - even around zero degrees. The key is a warm mummy sleeping bag and a small tent. The air in the tent is basically insulation, and in a small tent your body heat keeps it pretty warm. Use the mummy bag properly and you might even get too hot and need to unzip it a little.
forgotmypw17 5y ago
If you don't have one of the modern tents described in the other comments, your best bet in windy and rainy weather is to minimize the space you're trying to keep dry to your belongings and yourself. What I've done is put the tarp down, put my stuff in the middle, and a blanket for myself on one side, then fold it over in a way that water flows off. Then I take a nice long rest until the rain is over.
mark-r 5y ago
When I was a kid I went on a winter campout with the Boy Scouts. We had about a half-dozen canvas tents of that shape, arranged in a semicircle. The awnings were all stretched out and connected to tarps that enclosed the other half of the semicircle, and a wood stove was placed in the middle. I wouldn't say it was warm like inside a house, but it was much warmer than expected. The scouts at that time had a -100 badge, you got it when the low temperature with windchill for each night you camped added up to -100 Fahrenheit. We all got the badge that weekend. P.S. I never knew that style was called a Bakers Tent.

273 points by oblib 5y ago

nati0n 5y ago

Broken link.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bombcar 5y ago

Those emergency blankets don’t work like normal blankets - by trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting heat and keeping it in.

jadyoyster 5y ago
I'm not a physicist but wouldn't this reflective effect be tiny compared to the prevention of convective heat loss?
- Cerium 5y ago
  I spent a night in the woods (on purpose, not a real emergency) sleeping with an emergency blanket. It was not at all comfortable, but the blanket seriously worked. I would wake up whenever it moved to stop covering me because it would instantly become cold, then feel much warmer as soon as the blanket is back in place. The reflective action is impressive. They also act as a wind break and turn whatever clothes you are wearing into a more effective measure against convective heat loss.
  - zwp 5y ago
    A long time ago I similarly tested a (non-heat-reflective) orange plastic survival bag, sleeping overnight behind some rocks on exposed moorland (something like https://www.military1st.eu/cs037-highlander-emergency-survival-bag-orange.html https://www.military1st.eu/cs037-highlander-emergency-surviv...). The poor thermal insulation and condensation were predictable. I hadn't predicted the shifting wind which chose to balloon my orange cocoon with cold air every 20 mins no matter which orientation I chose to lie in. I finished the night with a bungie cord around the sack, under my armpits. That of course left my head, shoulders and arms exposed but kept the wind out. Not recommended. After this experience I upgraded to reflective mylar survival bags. NB "bag". These are a little harder to find than survival blankets but if a bag can be so badly affected by moderate wind, a blanket would be so much worse.
  - swader999 5y ago
    I sewed one into my ski jacket. Always good to have in case of injury and help an hour away.
- legulere 5y ago
  Considering average human body area is around 2 square meters and body temperature is around 37 degrees Celsius I get around 1000 W of radiation from the human body according to this calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/radfrac.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/radfrac.h...
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Or to put that in terms of net heat loss, in the 0-30C range you're looking at about 10 watts for every degree of difference between your skin and the environment.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Backing out human power consumption from caloric requirements comes closer to 120W constant output, at 2,500 kcal/day. The range is a low of about 50--75W (1,000--1,500 kcal, effectively starvation levels), and a maximum ceiling of around 485W (10,000 kcal day, perhaps a elite endurance athlete). Well below 1 kW in all cases.
  - snewman 5y ago
    Human skin temperature is considerably lower. (Or to think of it from another perspective, the system which is insulating your core temperature includes layers inside your body – skin, etc. – in addition to clothing, blanket, etc.)
pengaru 5y ago
> Those emergency blankets don’t work like normal blankets - by trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting heat and keeping it in. This reads as if to imply emergency blankets vent air freely, that's obviously not true.
- snewman 5y ago
  Thermal insulation, whether we're talking about a blanket, a winter jacket, or the foam stuff in your walls, generally involves a layer of some thickness within which there are many tiny spaces full of trapped air. It's difficult for heat to propagate across those spaces. The author's point is that mylar emergency blankets do not provide this thick layer of "trapped air". It's true that they prevent air from crossing, but only for the very thin layer of the blanket. I'm not sure exactly how effective the mylar blankets are and under what circumstances, but this is what "trapped air" refers to.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    Heat is transmitted by radiation, by conduction and by convection. A foam jacket blocks heat transmission by preventing convection. A mylar blanket prevents transmission by radiation and convection. Yes, it still loses heat to transmission but it isolates rather well. Unsurprisingly, that’s why they are used as emergency blankets.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    You'd be surprised how hot surrounding oneself with mylar gets. I've been inside a grow tent lined with mylar, and even though it was open on one side, it felt like a sauna within minutes!
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Homeless people use garbage bags to similar effect, you don't even need fancy mylar, it's just an optimization. The main problem with these solutions AIUI is the trapped humidity.
amelius 5y ago
And they are not comfortable, as this post shows: https://www.reddit.com/r/CampingandHiking/comments/4wtetp/improving_a_sleeping_bag_with_an_emergency_blanket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CampingandHiking/comments/4wtetp/im...
- dylan604 5y ago
  But if it is an emergency, and that's all you've got, it's a lot more comfortable than not having one. It's almost like they are purpose designed by looking at the name of the product.

throwawaysea 5y ago

I see no content on the linked page. Am I missing something?

kstrauser 5y ago
Little Snitch seems to think it fetches AJAX on a nonstandard port.
- dec0dedab0de 5y ago
  yeah, its trying to get to cherrypc.com on port 6984. That's kind of strange. Work proxy won't let me see it, oh well.
Etheryte 5y ago
You need to have Javascript enabled because the content is faded in by a script, apparently. Here's a pastebin of the text, but the post includes videos too: https://pastebin.com/8UwWUyTE https://pastebin.com/8UwWUyTE
- ajdude 5y ago
  I came here wondering if anyone else had that problem, yep, thanks for the pastebin.
dredmorbius 5y ago
Fails both Wayback Machine as well. That's a bad look. (I'd thought Archive.is also balked, though that now seems to work.)

motohagiography 5y ago

Amazing, when you add the idea of a Swedish rocket stove (https://hackaday.com/2021/06/01/disposable-rocket-stove-keeps-you-fueled-in-the-wild/ https://hackaday.com/2021/06/01/disposable-rocket-stove-keep...) this could make camping way more accessible. I've got some motorcycle camping planned, and own an auger for that stove purpose, but was looking for a tent, and this looks super interesting.

andaluz 5y ago
Better take something that could be used inside the tent and makes no smoke. So that you could make some tea or noodles while it rains outside. And no mosquitoes. Believe me, been there.
- e12e 5y ago
  Looks like a carbon monoxide death trap if you close it up and light up inside...
  - andaluz 5y ago
    Nope, it looks like you're getting a hot tea and a warm meal. And the guy that's got only a smoky woodchip burner gonna have a cold water and the dry noodles :D
- jointpdf 5y ago
  I would strongly advise against anyone cooking inside their tent (fire risk, animal magnet, carbon monoxide poisoning—all elaborated on here: https://sectionhiker.com/how-to-safely-cook-in-a-tent/ https://sectionhiker.com/how-to-safely-cook-in-a-tent/). Tents are usually very flammable—especially the mesh bug netting, which melts almost instantly even from the indirect heat of a lighter held a few feet away. If you have to in an emergency, then at least cook in the vestibule area (i.e. outside and away from the tent material) with lots of ventilation. PS: I think it is essential to embark on any camping/backpacking trip with a mindset of adaptation/sacrifice. You have to be willing to make conservative or uncomfortable decisions in the name of risk management (e.g. trudging through a stream and getting your shoes wet vs. attempting a dry crossing on a precarious log, or resisting the warm noodle cravings during a rainstorm). Besides, it makes the experience of returning to civilization that much more exhilarating.

PuffinBlue 5y ago

That's going to be a condensation fest in there. Pretty sure The Outdoor Gear Review did a real world test of something very similar. They 'work' in that they do heat up, but they're a lot of work and get extremely sweaty when made from those non-breathable plastic survival sheets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJwvH90g3Yw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJwvH90g3Yw For a more in depth look at using more 'appropriate' modern materials, 'Simon, A Bloke in the Woods' has a decent series on making a Baker Tent from scratch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Df0keicL5U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Df0keicL5U

ghaff 5y ago
Furthermore, there are a lot of places where you can't even have an open fire and/or there isn't a lot of wood. Cool experiment but tents and other sleeping arrangements like hammocks are a pretty well-trod area where real innovations are mostly through using new materials--one disadvantage of which is that super-light gear in my experience is increasingly fragile.
- oblib 5y ago
  I think this experiment offers a glimpse into an area that might deserve looking into. For example, a breathable weave of that reflective coating on the inside of a tent might make it warmer rather you use a campfire or not and reduce condensation when compared to my garage built proof of concept made with off the shelf materials. As to places where you can't have a campfire, I addressed that at the end of the post. One of the things I didn't really talk about, but did show in the video a couple times, is that reflective bubble wrap I use for the floor of the tent. That stuff makes a great pad for under your mattress pad or bag. It makes a huge difference when you're sitting or sleeping on cold ground and it protects your mattress from rocks and other small sharp hole poking stuff, folded up it makes an awesome pad to sit on, and it's pretty light.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Bubblewrap is an interesting idea. It's also pretty robust and even if you get a puncture, you just affect one bubble. At the end of the day, I'm not really that interested in a lot of hardcore ultralight although my gear, for those occasions when I use it, is pretty light.

lixtra 5y ago

What happens if the tent catches fire? Does it burn?

e12e 5y ago
I'm guessing it'll burn, but perhaps not very well/too dangerously... But I'm sure there's a way to weld yourself in molten plastic if you're unlucky? Not certain which exact model is used - doesn't look like they're advertised as flame retarded? (most modern tents are) https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/shelters/heat-reflective-blankets/survive-oudoors-longer-reg-all-season-blanket.html https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/shelters/heat-reflecti...
oblib 5y ago
That plastic really doesn't burn too well. It's easy to test with bit of it and a bic lighter. And I did test it a lot and read up on it.
- jupp0r 5y ago
  Polyethylene is highly combustable according to the FAA https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/05-14.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/05-14.pdf
  - lovemenot 5y ago
    According to that FAA document, PET (Polyethyleneterephthalate) is considerably less combustible than PE. This material seems to be BoPET (biaxially-oriented polyethylene terephthalate), which is aluminised PET. Presumably less flammable than PET, but not included in the FAA document. I am not an expert, and haven't tested it. Edit: I see now, that PE seems to be in the doorway.
- mrfusion 5y ago
  But the part closest to the fire is a clear plastic sheet.
  - 5y ago

deleted_account 5y ago

It's a baker tent[1] made from SOL Emergency Blankets[2]. They get warm, but what doesn't when you have a long fire in front of you. [1] http://ruralsportsman.com/rediscover-the-baker-tent/ http://ruralsportsman.com/rediscover-the-baker-tent/ [2] https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/survive-outdoors-longer-emergency-blanket.html https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/survive-outdoors-longe...

kag0 5y ago
The idea sounds fun, but I'm a little skeptical of the author's claims that it'll get to 80 degrees with only a small fire in front of it. It's quite possible the author and I have different ideas of what a small backpacking fire looks like.
- colonelxc 5y ago
  One of the videos has a kid read off a thermometer at 79 degrees (with snow on the ground). You can judge for yourself the size of the fire in that video.
- oblib 5y ago
  I can say without any worry of being proved wrong that it is very easy to warm that tent to 80+ degrees with even a small campfire like the one seen in the video with my grandson bouncing around inside it. I use a layer of thicker branches about 3" in diameter first, then I use smaller diameter sticks in layers on top of that. When you light that off the smaller sticks burn down and create a bed of coals on the first layer that keep fuel burning as it's added. By design that burns low and slow. I'm also burning deadfall from hardwoods, Oak and Hickory by choice, and because that's what's growing in our forest here.
- jandrese 5y ago
  Isn't that when you have the sun shining right into the tent? It's basically a human size solar oven.
  - oblib 5y ago

maiya9 5y ago

nice, looks great!

jordache 5y ago

that front panel looks dangerous.. fire facing and is made from flammable plastic sheets

robscallsign 5y ago
I thought the same thing, looks like a fairly thin plastic drop cloth that could start fairly quickly if the wind direction or strength changes.

Danborg 5y ago

It looks a lot like the Oztent RV-2 to me. https://www.oztent.com/products/tent-range/oztent-range/oztent-rv-2 https://www.oztent.com/products/tent-range/oztent-range/ozte...

Semiapies 5y ago

"It's said that Henry David Thoreau lived alone in a Bakers tent on Walden Pond." Who says this? Thoreau lived in a cabin and had his mother bring him food every day.

mikestew 5y ago
Thoreau says this, in The Maine Woods[0]. (EDIT: Thoreau says that he lived in a tent in Maine, not at Walden Pond.) The author of TFA got it a little wrong. Note to those wanting to replicate this: I'm pretty sure Thoreau's tent catches fire at some point. I'd have to re-read to confirm or deny if it had anything to do with setting the tent in front of the fire, as the author of TFA does. [0] https://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods.html https://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods.html
- robocat 5y ago
  “A shed-shaped tent will catch and reflect the heat like a Yankee-baker, and you may be drying while you are sleeping.” Page 124: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page124.html http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page124.html “ We had no sooner pitched our tent than the thunder-shower burst on us, and we hastily crept under it, drawing our bags after us, curious to see how much of a shelter our thin cotton roof was going to be in this excursion. Though the violence of the rain forced a fine shower through the cloth before it was fairly wetted and shrunk, with which we were well bedewed, we managed to keep pretty dry”. Page 99: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page99.html http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page99.html “Our bed was made with as much care and skill as a roof is shingled; beginning at the foot, and laying the twig end of the cedar upward, we advanced to the head, a course at a time, thus successively covering the stub-ends, and producing a soft and level bed. For us six it was about ten feet long by six in breadth. This time we lay under our tent, having pitched it more prudently with reference to the wind and the flame, and the usual huge fire blazed in front.” Page 27: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page27.html http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page27.html I didn’t find anything about a tent catching fire, but I only skim searched.
  - 5y ago

themodelplumber 5y ago

Right on, that is really similar to Cody's Super Shelter from _Dual Survival_...I admit it blew my mind when I first saw it. https://youtu.be/EvKLOMgtM1Q https://youtu.be/EvKLOMgtM1Q (Cody throws in the "long-wave radiation" terminology for extra survival credibility points)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

qbasic_forever 5y ago

> All things considered this tent, at less than 3 pounds, is one the lightest 2-person, freestanding, tents around that can handle four-season conditions. 4-season tents are made to handle wind and snow accumulation, which this thing definitely would fail. It's a fun exercise for bushcrafting but don't kid yourself and think you can go 15k+ feet up a mountain and survive 50mph wind gusts like you could in a Hilleberg or other true 4 season tent. I'm a big fan of tarps and tents with pyramid designs--the MLD trailstar is an awesome shelter that's proven itself well in windy, rainy Scottish highlands and is a favorite shelter for backpackers there: https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/trailstar/ https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/trailstar/

mikestew 5y ago
One of the Hillebergs I have is four-season and weighs 3 lbs., including the poles. I can have it up in ten minutes, tops. The tent in the article might weigh 3 lbs., but that doesn't include the tree branches one is going to have to scrounge for to make tent poles. So if, as you mention, one is at 15K feet then snow accumulation is the least of one's worries if you can't find any tent poles above the tree line. :-) I mean, it could be a cool design to play with but it has a somewhat limited range of usefulness.
- ghaff 5y ago
  It's a little like igloos and snow caves. Fun to play around with once or twice but not really practical in general.
  - jupp0r 5y ago
    Snow caves can be quite practical if the snow and terrain are suitable for them. Not a reason not to carry a tent but I've built snow caves even though I had a tent with me because they are so much more comfortable.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Hence "in general" :-) Snow caves are probably more practical than igloos for a night or two but can still involve a fair bit of physical work and hence getting sweaty. Don't really disagree that snow caves can sometimes be fairly practical in the winter in the right snow conditions.

kragen 5y ago

Works fine for me, but https://archive.fo/kMceI https://archive.fo/kMceI is a possible alternative if you're having trouble with the JS.

eagsalazar2 5y ago

Modern backpacking tents have achieved an exquisite pinnacle of engineering and usability perfection. I am a UX baby (constant whining about almost every tool/service/product I interact with, sorry to everyone who has to be around me) and I love my tent. It is magical the degree to which it has been thoughtfully optimized in so many little ways. DIY tents like this one are interesting and fun if you are into geeking on that sort of thing but honestly seem like a pain to set up and likely to have severe condensation issues (as others have mentioned) but, seriously, I appreciate the geekery here, just not my focus. I prefer to invest my camping DIY geekery on bushwhacking and cooking.

tucosan 5y ago
Now you need to tell us which tent you own.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  Seconded. I'm working up to a 50 mile trip and I'd love some recommendations.
  - qbasic_forever 5y ago
    I'm guessing it's a Zpacks Duplex, it's basically the favorite tent of any through-hiker for the last couple years: https://zpacks.com/products/duplex-tent https://zpacks.com/products/duplex-tent They are very well designed and built--100% DCF so they're strong and light, yet great resistance to weather. Unlike most other UL shelters it makes almost no sacrifices and has all the niceties of heavier shelters, like a full floor and interior mesh, big vestibules, etc. And it packs up into an impossibly small size and weight in your pack.
    - newsbinator 5y ago
      > Weight 19.0 oz / 539 g Wow!!
      - 5y ago

jupp0r 5y ago

Having a camp fire right next to a tent made of highly flammable polyethylene seems like ... less great of an idea.

Implicated 5y ago

For those of you who are also gear-heads geeking out about tents and what not, I built this service quite some years back now to aggregate a bunch of lightweight focused used gear markets along with some notification features. It’s got a lot of the cottage gear manufacturers mentioned in this thread - part of the goal with building the site was to try to bring some awareness to their services! [1] https://lwhiker.com https://lwhiker.com

bikamonki 5y ago

It is not clear to me, after reading this nice piece, if the fire must be kept alive all night long in order to keep the tent warm?

oblib 5y ago
You can build and manage a fire to burn slow, but yea, you do have to get up and add fuel as needed. Depending where you are, if you can orient the face of the tent towards the sunrise that might warm it up some (so you could snooze a little longer). I've never done that yet though so I can't say how much. Now I'm curious to know how much that will warm it.

probotect0r 5y ago

Those interested in making your own gear should check out r/myog. Lots of good content there.

oblib 5y ago
Thank you for the suggestion. Sounds like my kinda place!

mrfusion 5y ago

I don’t like the plastic that close to the fire especially overnight.

rvba 5y ago

70 degrees inside tent? Ah it is Fahrenheit, so 21 degrees Celcius...

mrfusion 5y ago

At the top of my wishlist for a tent is some level of animal protection. I get unreasonably afraid of bears especially when I’m half asleep.

brailsafe 5y ago
I've been somewhat concerned about bears as well, though I wonder if just tying a bell to a string and around some trees would help.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  You'd need to string a perimeter around the tent. Might give you time to get the bear spray ready.
- mrfusion 5y ago
  I’ve thought of that but I’d have a such a panic at any false alarm. Wind, racoons, etc.
nate_meurer 5y ago
I wouldn't call that unreasonable, but it's not physically possible for a tent to even slow a bear down if it wants to get in. In my town, bears have gotten into houses and garages by tearing the front doors off their hinges, and by tearing through a house's siding and sheathing. I recommend car camping in bear country.
- rascul 5y ago
  Bears can potentially open car doors. https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/have-you-seen/2021/05/04/black-bears-open-parked-car-door-and-explore-whats-inside/4937852001/ https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/have-you-seen/2021/05/0...
  - swader999 5y ago
    They also go through open windows. Saw an interior get totaled all because some m&m's were left on the dash.

Fricken 5y ago

In scouts we winter camped in lean-tos made from sticks and spruce boughs. We would build a wall behind the fire to reflect heat into the lean-to. It works well enough in a survival situation. It's best to just have a sleeping bag rated for the conditions. Gathering wood and stoking up the fire every 45 minutes is too much of a hassle.

sarak12070 5y ago

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hellbannedguy 5y ago

Speaking of tents. What's America going to do with the hugh spike in homelessness we are going to see? Personally, I feel all unused federal, state, and local land should be available for free camping. Free camping witout harassment from authorities? Maybe bring back homesteading? Yes---there are a lot of really bad, non-livable, jobs supposedly begging for help. I don't see it in my county (Marin County). My point is the authorities might not be successful in their anti-homeless remedies they used in the past, like that Broken Window civil rights fiasco, or plain out harrasement like they are so comfortable with, like ticketing for sleeping in a park, or loitering infractions until they move on. The Supreme Court homelessness ruling is putting a hitch their usual giddup? I foresee a hugh spike in homelessness, and would like to see politicians talk about it. I'm an idiot, and can see the writing on the wall. They must know what's going to happen? We are not going to just reopen, and everything will be fine. It was pretty terrible before the pandemic.

muricula 5y ago
The spike in homelessness is already here, just not in your county. Some counties deliberately force out homeless folks and push them to neighboring cities, which may be the case where you live. Seattle saw a 6% rise last year: https://apnews.com/article/seattle-washington-coronavirus-pandemic-homelessness-e989adaa17c89db0eddaa6732a3b9fc1 https://apnews.com/article/seattle-washington-coronavirus-pa... The Tenderloin, SF saw a 285% rise(!) last year: https://abc7news.com/homeless-in-san-francisco-coronavirus-sf-help/6158835/ https://abc7news.com/homeless-in-san-francisco-coronavirus-s...

jacobsenscott 5y ago

I've never really had a problem staying warm winter camping - even around zero degrees. The key is a warm mummy sleeping bag and a small tent. The air in the tent is basically insulation, and in a small tent your body heat keeps it pretty warm. Use the mummy bag properly and you might even get too hot and need to unzip it a little.

forgotmypw17 5y ago

If you don't have one of the modern tents described in the other comments, your best bet in windy and rainy weather is to minimize the space you're trying to keep dry to your belongings and yourself. What I've done is put the tarp down, put my stuff in the middle, and a blanket for myself on one side, then fold it over in a way that water flows off. Then I take a nice long rest until the rain is over.

mark-r 5y ago

When I was a kid I went on a winter campout with the Boy Scouts. We had about a half-dozen canvas tents of that shape, arranged in a semicircle. The awnings were all stretched out and connected to tarps that enclosed the other half of the semicircle, and a wood stove was placed in the middle. I wouldn't say it was warm like inside a house, but it was much warmer than expected. The scouts at that time had a -100 badge, you got it when the low temperature with windchill for each night you camped added up to -100 Fahrenheit. We all got the badge that weekend. P.S. I never knew that style was called a Bakers Tent.