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I am being shunned by my family because of my lack of interest in the vaccine. I've had COVID and recovered. I also don't get a flu shot each year. I really lik

I am being shunned by my family because of my lack of interest in the vaccine. I've had COVID and recovered. I also don't get a flu shot each year. I really like not putting things into my body, especially when year after year I may or may not "catch" these things but if I do, I always recover. I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. However, none of these facts or articles such as this will ever effectively challenge the "get the vaccine or you are a bad citizen and will kill everyone" emotional arguments that are out there. I have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid and have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection. I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. I think you are in for a long wait.
nednar 5y ago
Who said after recovery you need vaccine? Probably you just need to share official documentation from your government and official health body with your family. Afaik, recovered and vaccinated are treated the same currently.
- mfer 5y ago
  I asked about this. The response I got was that many people who got COVID had a mild case where the immune system did not kick in very strongly. That these are more likely to get a 2nd infection. The vaccine for them will give them coverage from a second infection. They want everyone to get the vaccine so that people aren't missed who had a mild case. Right or wrong, this is the reasoning being shared where I live.
  - sigstoat 5y ago
    > They want everyone to get the vaccine so that people aren't missed who had a mild case. i feel like "mild case" (also) subtly refers to all of the folks who said "oh, yeah, i had a cold in december 2019, that was probably covid. i've had it. no big deal."
  - lawnchair_larry 5y ago
    And a study just released has also contradicted this “assigned opinion” being weaponized by the vaccine virtue signalers.
  - nednar 5y ago
    Thanks for sharing!
- criley2 5y ago
  >"But the persistence of antibody production, whether elicited by vaccination or infection, does not ensure long-lasting immunity to COVID-19. The ability of some emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants to blunt the protective effects of antibodies means that additional immunizations may be needed to restore levels, says Ellebedy. “My presumption is we will need a booster.” The article talks about how the experts on this field "presume" we'll need boosters to get antibody levels high enough to combat the worse mutated variants, and of course, it could be a bit of an arms race between it mutating variants that are better against our antibodies, and us boosting our antibodies with vaccines to trigger responses and keep blood levels high.
- simlevesque 5y ago
  After recovery you need a single shot instead of 2.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ctdonath 5y ago
  The broadly-accepted imperative requirement is "vaccinated", as in "do not enter without a mask/etc unless you have been fully vaccinated". There is never a reference to "inoculated" (to wit vaccinated or had Covid and recovered). Furthermore, there may not be "official documentation from your gov't and official health body". I was tested & 'treated', but my wife had exactly the same symptoms & recovery without bothering with doctors (seriously, it was really mild), so there is no documentation and no apparent process to procure such documentation. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Seems that, to most people, Covid & vaccines are magic: the disease is perceived little differently from evil spirits (sparing some and slaying others, with nothing corporeal to perceive & avoid), and the vaccine is a tangible talisman mysteriously able to ward off such spirits (by a mere prick from a costumed wizard wielding magic potions). This leaves most people, unable to really grasp the objective mechanism of vaccination (being a simulation of actual infection, to teach the body to fight it off), with the only objectively perceivable act they can grasp in the issue: vaccine injection. Hence many dismiss the near-spiritual notion of "I contracted it, survived, and am now immune - without intervention by wizards". Thus, to present it a bit over-the-top, recovered and vaccinated are not treated the same by those not professionally involved in medicine.
  - nednar 5y ago
    > The broadly-accepted imperative requirement is "vaccinated", as in "do not enter without a mask/etc unless you have been fully vaccinated". There is never a reference to "inoculated" (to wit vaccinated or had Covid and recovered). As can be concluded from my post: Where I live vaccinated and recovered are treated the same, at least for now. > Furthermore, there may not be "official documentation from your gov't and official health body". Where I live there are laws what is permitted in super markets, restaurants, bars etc. And there are recommendations from the official health body that is responsible for the Covid topic. Often they overlap, sometimes they don't. But I think currently both agree on the vaccinated vs recovered point. All that is said just to sync up on facts. I'm not trying to convince anybody of changing their interpretation or opinion.
- zamalek 5y ago
  > Probably you just need to share official documentation from your government and official health body with your family. That's going to be tough[1]: > Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html
mehphp 5y ago
But you _did_ catch covid so being careful isn't always enough. I don't think it's emotional or unreasonable for your family to require the vaccine before you visit. Also, I'm not suggesting that you will "kill everyone" by not getting the vaccine, but it really isn't just about you and that you personally will probably recover. Do you think it's a reasonable thing for most people to take your stance and not get vaccinated? We are at the tail end of this thing _because_ we have a vaccination available.
- deweller 5y ago
  The thing that I find so wrong about this type of argument is that the vaccine is not proven to prevent spreading the virus. It is only proven to stop the onset of COVID-19 after one contracts the virus. So the line of reasoning that argues one should get vaccinated to stop the spread of SARS-CoV-2 is not valid. Edit: Wow - the downvotes... There is some evidence that transmission is reduced, but it is not proven: "the risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated" https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...
  - pandem 5y ago
    I'm not sure why people keep saying this. The original studies did not study if the vaccine prevents spread, that is true. I'm not certain myself, but I believe that studies done based on COVID spread in countries where vaccination rates are high (at least Israel) point to the direction that it prevents spread as well. Are these not valid data points?
    - beiller 5y ago
      There was also the Seychelles data point which had the highest vaccinated rate and then had a large outbreak after.
      - DennisP 5y ago
throwawaybutwhy 5y ago
For hard-core irrefutable evidence, get your IgG antibodies assay test done. Problem solved, you're a model citizen now.
jf22 5y ago
> I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. How many days before you are noticeably sick can you spread the flu or COVID?
- foepys 5y ago
  Research seems to indicate 2-3 days, if you even have symptoms. If you don't have symptoms until you fight it off.
DennisP 5y ago
Until now, virologists had little evidence on whether having covid gives you lasting immunity or not. It seems possible that you're not giving your family enough credit. The reason that not going out when you're sick is an insufficient precaution for covid is that people spread the virus for several days before they get symptoms.
- camgunz 5y ago
  I agree with you, and would also point out the subtitle on the article says: "though viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer". Variants are the problem here, which is the case for all anti-vax arguments.
tw04 5y ago
>I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. With the flu for instance, you are communicable before you show symptoms. Were you wearing a mask for the duration of the flu season prior to covid? That would be what responsible looks like if you're not interested in getting a shot. >I have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid and have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection. I'm not sure you can say that with 100% certainty unless you've been getting weekly tests since your initial positive results. Early studies indicate that people who get re-infected are more likely to show no symptoms the second time around, but they can still infect others. https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/12/can-someone-who-recovered-spread-COVID19 https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/12/can-someone...
- ReptileMan 5y ago
  The critical is infecting at what rate and for the flue how communicable. You cannot define responsible without quantified chances. The article you have given is written by people that haven't given a single probability number. But they declare that it is unsafe. Declaring un/safety without measuring risk is senseless.
eplanit 5y ago
"get the vaccine or you are a bad citizen and will kill everyone" Yep. Notice how the "follow science" phrase isn't used anymore. It's now just a demand to comply, or else you're a horrible person.
- kyleblarson 5y ago
  And it's especially ironic given that most of the shaming is coming from the 'my body my choice' proponents on other issues.
  - silvester23 5y ago
    If you are referring to a pro-choice stance, I don't think that's really comparable to a situation where your choice can severely affect not only yourself but all people around you.
    - eplanit 5y ago
      But many would argue that there is damage to society from that, too.
JPKab 5y ago
I'm in a pretty weird position right now myself. I caught it in mid-February with mild symptoms basically just loss of smell. I have very high antibodies and my physician actually recommended that I hold off on getting the vaccine. Unfortunately, I have several co-workers who refuse to attend a picnic if I'm there. All of them are vaccinated which indicates to me that there is no logic and simply a demand that I adhere to the same religion they do. Because honestly it's sure feels like a religion with these people.
- ctdonath 5y ago
  "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Yeah, Covid vaccination has achieved religious fervor among many.
- epistasis 5y ago
  For understanding people's responses to this, I think it's best to think of it as a war. The human race is under attack, millions of us have died, and we are hurting emotionally. During this time, we've had politicians actively say we should just give up and let the enemy kill 10x as many people, and enough people have followed these politicians' views to effect the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands in the US. This may not be your view, but it is the view of many, that we are under attack, and people's lives are at stake. A ton of people have lost loved ones. Or they've had loved ones at deaths door and on oxygen and suffering for weeks. So while you view those vaccinated folks who don't want to be around unvaccinated people as having a "religion," it may be just that they view you as a traitor to humanity. Back during the Iraq war, I didn't support us starting it, and for that position many people treated me far far worse than simply not wanting to be at a company picnic with them. The people who treated me poorly for my views often had family who were in the military, and didn't want to think that they were putting their lives at risk for nothing. It wasn't even that the US itself was at risk, it's that they wanted their family to be risking their lives for a cause everyone supported. So when people have been fighting against a local enemy that is hurting us all, I'm surprised the reaction is so mild as to not want to be at the same picnic.
- sigstoat 5y ago
  > I have very high antibodies and my physician actually recommended that I hold off on getting the vaccine. what was their reasoning?
nknealk 5y ago
> I have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid and have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection. I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. People can get covid twice [1]. Especially older people who are at higher risk of death. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w
- ldng 5y ago
  In a year and a half, Veratti, a football player for PSG, got it 3 times. Reinfection is a real tangible thing.
unethical_ban 5y ago
Arguments against your case: * Outlets had previously been reporting that mild cases do not give enough immune response to be lasting * Variants might not be caught by the natural immune response, but the vaccines are showing to be pretty effective with them. * Many people also think it's selfish not to get the free flu vaccines each year, so it isn't surprising that after a pandemic where half a million Americans died due to the spread of this disease, "No I'm good" seems callous. Surprise, you live in a society - and I don't say that sentence ironically. Yes, science and reality is important. That's why the fact that the vaccine is a sure shot vs. you winging it with your prior illness, despite the fact the vaccines are overwhelmingly safe, gives some people pause.
- 74d-fe6-2c6 5y ago
  > Surprise, you live in a society - and I don't say that sentence ironically. You should. Majority of Muricans is not even willing to pay into a communal health insurance. So much for the level of society. > That's why the fact that the vaccine is a sure shot That take is not scientific at all. There have been several issues reported with the vaccines.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    Here you are, trying to say that Covid is less of a threat to yourself and others than the vaccine. Very few reactions have occurred. If you're worried about it, also don't go outside, cross a street, or go swimming in any body of water.
    - swader999 5y ago
      We still don't have enough data on whether this will suffer ADE. If parent is young, isn't in a highly infectious area and behaves cautiously, they may be making a less risky decision.
      - amluto 5y ago
        We absolutely have enough data to rule out meaningful ADE. Study after study (the phase 3 trials and all the ongoing surveillance) indicates a massive reduction in the rate of severe infection among vaccine recipients. Sure, one can quibble about whether maybe some of the very small number of people who got a vaccine more than a couple weeks before a severe COVID case had a form of ADE, but that’s like saying that we haven’t ruled out that seatbelts might kill people. In both cases, the risk that a protective measure harms the recipient is massively outweighed by the degree to which the protective measure protects the recipient.
exotree 5y ago
Things are being put into your body with or without your knowledge. You had no idea if you were infectious with COVID for up to 14 days possibly, so it doesn’t matter if you didn’t go out when you “felt sick.” You may feel like your being responsible, but that does not mean you feeling that way actually means you are being that way. Over 500,000 people have died. Awesome. You recovered. A lot of other people didn’t. I wouldn’t be so confident you’ll always recover. And it’s possible that you’ll infect folks who can’t recover along the way, because of your “lack of interest.”
- heyflyguy 5y ago
  Like I said, emotional arguments.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Nothing the parent poster said is an emotional argument - quite the opposite. It may be that you have an emotional response to those facts but that does not make it an emotional argument.
    - heyflyguy 5y ago
      Sarcasm is expressing emotion.
ppljudge 5y ago
Not really fact based affirming you “always recover”. Besides, I know people who got COVID twice or more.
Accacin 5y ago
Yeah, but you did get it. I'm not particularly careful myself, but I obey our local laws, wear a mask when required, etc. and I haven't caught it but I'm still getting my vaccination on Monday. It's also baffling to me that you say you act responsible and two paragraphs later admit to being around people who have had COVID! To me, it's completely irresponsible to not get a vaccine if offered but I'm not going to hold it against you and I can at least understand where you are coming from.
JTbane 5y ago
There are cases of even young, healthy people getting severe complications from COVID. This is not "just the flu".
nickthemagicman 5y ago
People talked about 'saving granny' to get you to comply with Covid restrictions but now there's literally granny's dying in India and we're giving the vaccine to perfectly healthy people in America and no one gives it a second thought! Meanwhile, under 55 age group has a fatality chance of Covid that is less than dying in a car accident and will develop immunity after natural infection. And the under 55 age group makes up over 80% of the population. I completely agree about fact based realities needing to take hold again! I think we may be in a post-truth society and all that matters to people is what's the news media report instead of actual science and statistics. The upside to people getting their reality from the media is that when the news media quits reporting on an issue it will be COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN ABOUT, much like darfur, metoo, blm, starving children, dead innocent civilians in the middle east. Poof it will just vanish in the wind as long as the politicians don't make it actionable. So just hold out for a bit longer and the news media will stop reporting on Covid and switch to a new topic that people can be outraged over. And no one will care at all about your vaccine.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  What about the fact that a VERY small sacrifice on your part of getting a vaccine plays a VERY small part in preventing an older or compromised person from getting VERY sick? > we're giving the vaccine to perfectly healthy people in America and no one gives it a second thought! You always give vaccines to healthy people. >> And no one will care at all about your vaccine. I'm quite confident you'll get a vaccine when you need proof to go on your week's vacation to some beach country, or any similar personal impact.
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    >> You always give vaccines to healthy people. Directly from your previous sentence: "preventing an older or compromised person from getting VERY sick" (disengenuous of you) >>I'm quite confident you'll get a vaccine.... Don't be. This will all but forgotten in a few months. :)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
If there was still a shortage of vaccines I'd totally agree with you, they should go to someone who doesn't already have immunity. But that's not the case, so I do think you have a responsibility. From an administrative standpoint, it's much easier to confirm that everyone has had the vaccine. And, there's some evidence that the vaccine provides better immunity than the virus itself. IMO, this is even more true for the flu vaccine! Flu vaccines are less effective on an individual level, so as a society we're more reliant on collective immunity to slow down the spread. Lots of people die from the flu, and a little shot each year can help keep them alive!
JamesSwift 5y ago
Did you ever consider that you might have been the vector that Covid traveled through to infect all those folks around you that came down with Covid? When you draw out the network graph of Covid transmission, how many people do you think your specific infection affected downstream? I'm not going to say you have to get vaccinated against anything, but I do see it in a lot of ways like a game of tug-of-war with society vs disease. Sure, its not essential that _everyone_ be pulling on the rope but it sure makes it a lot easier if they are. And things get really bad if more and more people stop pulling on it, especially if the other side starts getting stronger.
sschueller 5y ago
In Switzerland the government does not want people who have had covid within the last six months to get the vaccination. Additionally if you do want to get the vaccination after 6 month they only want you to get 1 shot not 2. Does the US not differentiate between those who have had it and those that didn't?
- loveistheanswer 5y ago
  >Does the US not differentiate between those who have had it and those that didn't? No they do not. Public messaging has completely ignored natural immunity.
skeeter2020 5y ago
>> I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. a. you caught covid, so does your approach work? b. you are often ill and contagious before you have any symptoms so unless you never go out this isn't sufficient c. you get vaccinated and a flu shot for the holistic group, i.e. society. When individuals talk about personal rights and the "me" I question if they get this. >> I have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid and have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection. I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. OK, here's one: your casual anecdote is not a factual reality.
- amluto 5y ago
  I get a flu shot to protect others and to protect myself. I was very clearly exposed to the H1N1 pandemic flu a few weeks after getting the vaccine, and, to the extent I got sick at all, I had minimal symptoms. I can’t know the extent to which my vaccine protected me or protected people around me, but, on expectation, it certainly provided a considerable amount of protection to me and others. (For all that the H1N1 pandemic flu was minor compared to COVID, it still put a lot of people in the hospital. I’m quite glad I didn’t get a severe case.)
nkozyra 5y ago
> have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection Science generally saves us from trusting anecdotes, though. I know two people who were reinfected within five months, but I wouldn't conclude it's likely.
D13Fd 5y ago
This position is selfish. Covid is very often asymptomatic but still spreads. There is no way you can know that you haven't had it again, haven't spread it to others, and won't continue to do so without a vaccine. And while it may be asymptomatic for you, you can still spread it to others who it will be very symptomatic for - including others who have been diligent and have taken the vaccine. You can kill people without knowing it. The longer people go unvaccinated, the more likely mutations are to catch on, which may defeat the vaccine. You are placing your general dislike of "putting things into my body" above all of our safety and welfare, and you are interfering with our collective efforts to end this pandemic and move on for the sake of our health and economy. Please don't be so selfish.
- titzer 5y ago
  I wanted to write this comment, but you said it better. The OP's post is entirely about themself, evidenced in that it is written in a completely self-centered way. "I am experiencing social shaming and being shunned for a position I take where I show absolutely no concern for others. And yet they don't subscribe to my superior reasoning powers. My feelings are so hurt!" Cry us a river, dude.
- mantismd 5y ago
  Asymptotic transmission has been proven to be negligible and non-issue.
  - dada78641 5y ago
    There's actually still a fair number of people who get their first COVID-19 infection and never develop any symptoms at all, although it's a lot less than the initial research indicated early on in the pandemic: https://jammi.utpjournals.press/doi/10.3138/jammi-2020-0030 https://jammi.utpjournals.press/doi/10.3138/jammi-2020-0030 But a much bigger problem is presymptomatic transmission, which is why this disease was able to spread so steadily. Aside from that, there are people with symptoms that are so minor they never even consider themselves sick (although hopefully today people are more vigilant about this).
- swader999 5y ago
mywittyname 5y ago
Repeat infections of covid have been confirmed and now that the CDC is tracking variants, we know that the dominant strains shift very rapidly. Meaning that you could be exposed to a mutated version for which your immunity is blunted or completely absent. The vaccines are only 85-99% effective. So your family is still at risk for getting and spreading the infection. And if you're the spreader, it's possible that it would be a resistant strain. My attitude mirrors that of your family. And it has more to do with doing ones part to combat this pandemic and return to normal. I got a vaccine less for my own person safety, but more for the good of society. I want people to be safe, feel safe, and I want front line workers -- who've given so much -- to finally get a break. You're not willing to make this same, minor sacrifice for society that everyone else did. It makes sense that you'd be shunned by people who want this to be over with.
- lawnchair_larry 5y ago
  Man am I ever sick of this attitude. That high ground you’re looking down on other people from certainly has an extremely weak foundation based on what we know currently. Consider a little respect and humility. You might be wrong. Many of the the loudest voices throughout this whole covid affair are currently muffled as they can’t eat and talk at the same time, lest they choke on their massive servings of humble pie for being so wrong about something they were so certain about.
armchairhacker 5y ago
Ok, I agree your family might be overreacting, and that it isn't a "big deal" you're not getting the vaccine. But you really should get the vaccine, at least if you're in a place with abundant supply. There's just no good argument against it. The odds of "putting things in your body" having any effect on you are far less than the odds of getting Covid again, even if those odds are low. And mine as well make your family happy.
- lawnchair_larry 5y ago
  > The odds of "putting things in your body" having any effect on you are far less than the odds of getting Covid again, even if those odds are low. Regardless on one’s position, this is simply baseless bullshit. Please don’t spread it.
forty 5y ago
If you are healthy, getting vaccinated against covid is not something you do for you, it's something you do for others. That's how vaccine works, when enough people are vaccinated, the epidemic stops. Some viruses evolves and for those a vaccine is required regularly (like flu, maybe covid). I can totally understand that you are not worried for yourself (I feel the same) but don't be surprised that people are unhappy that you don't care about them. And you say you don't go out when you get sick, but I'm not sure how you would do that for covid, since covid can in many cases be asymptomatic. I'm not sure how it works in your country, but here people that already had covid only get one vaccine shot, as the covid infection is counted as the first one.
- randomopining 5y ago
  It’s amazing that people don’t understand this. If you have a condition or something that it could affect, sure don’t get the vaccine. I’m fine with that. But if you’re healthy and esp if you didn’t have covid yet, getting the shot is patriotic. Fools try to twist it otherwise.
dognotdog 5y ago
FWIW, several non-vaccinated acquaintances of mine in different countries have gotten COVID for the 2nd time, though anecdotally somewhat less severe in the second round. Is any data, yet, available about how reduced the contagiousness is for getting infected for the 2nd time naturally, vs. having the vaccine? For both catching and spreading it?
mrozbarry 5y ago
The main issue is that there is a very ill-defined wall between vaccines from science and a political agenda. The average human (except maybe the elderly?) does not have the same problems with flu season and vaccination in the same way we view covid. Granted, covid is a big problem, but the mortality rate is about 10% [0]. The main difference here is that the flu season is mostly dictated by science, there are no public restrictions and people go about their lives mostly without consequence. Covid is a different beast for a bunch of reasons, and one major one is politics. I have never up until this point in my life saw the amount of political pressure that everyone needs to be vaccinated. Probably going more off opinion that fact at this point, but I can't foresee any place in the world going back to normal once n% of people get vaccinated. At least the mayo clinic doesn't seem certain on what the long term effects of the current vaccines will be [1], specifically around "A COVID-19 vaccine might...Prevent you from getting COVID-19 or from becoming seriously ill or dying due to COVID-19." The CDC website seems to have more confident information, but I'm not convinced that we actually have the long-term data yet to back that up, but I'm open to being corrected with any studies that last more than 2 months, and use saline for control groups (and not another vaccine, which seems to be the popular method, which I'm also interested in opinions on). So _if_ the vaccines don't provided long term protection from being sick AND spreading the disease, don't expect vaccinated percentages to change the state of the current lockdowns. I've been told I'm a bad citizen for just waiting for data that proves that shooting this vaccine in my body will actually support a good long term solution. [0] https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
AifVI 5y ago
Your comment history shows your aversion to "putting things into my body" doesn't extend to MDMA. I'd suggest that taking the COVID-19 vaccine to help save our economy from a global pandemic, and to protect your family, has a better risk/reward ratio than taking recreational narcotics for a fun weekend.
74d-fe6-2c6 5y ago
It is absolutely okay to not get vaccinated! And if your family shuns you for that then you should question your family and the quality of their relationship to you. Especially because everybody who is afraid of Covid can get vaccinated ... so, then they are reasonbly protected. If they are afraid and not vaccinated then they can ask you to not seek physical proximity. I mean that's fine - but that's not shunning. Also you do not have any resonsibility to do that for society. The society we live in is not even close to the level of solidarity and empathy to demand anything from an individual beyond respecting the law and paying taxes.
borvo 5y ago
They might be shunning you due to your non-fact based opinions and consequent risky behavior: * I've had COVID and recovered * also don't get a flu shot each year * have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid And you think your family are the ones with the emotional arguments (!) Sorry this happened to you, but you're the one in the wrong here.
revel 5y ago
I'm not going to shame you for this but I think you have some misconceptions about the vaccines vs naturally acquired immunity that might impact your decision. Naturally acquired immunity from the original strain of covid-19 is not effective against some of the other variants. The strain currently ravaging India has infected many individuals who had been sick before, sometimes extremely seriously. The mRNA vaccines don't work the same way as old school vaccines. They're better technology and they're also much more effective than natural immunity. Basically by getting the vaccine you won't get seriously ill and you won't die. You're also less likely to get infected with the strains. Nobody can force you to get a shot but you're helping protect yourself and other people by getting it. I hope you reconsider.
yosito 5y ago
> I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. Sounds like you ought to start with yourself, to be frank.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. I think you are in for a long wait.

nednar 5y ago

Who said after recovery you need vaccine? Probably you just need to share official documentation from your government and official health body with your family. Afaik, recovered and vaccinated are treated the same currently.

mfer 5y ago
I asked about this. The response I got was that many people who got COVID had a mild case where the immune system did not kick in very strongly. That these are more likely to get a 2nd infection. The vaccine for them will give them coverage from a second infection. They want everyone to get the vaccine so that people aren't missed who had a mild case. Right or wrong, this is the reasoning being shared where I live.
- sigstoat 5y ago
  > They want everyone to get the vaccine so that people aren't missed who had a mild case. i feel like "mild case" (also) subtly refers to all of the folks who said "oh, yeah, i had a cold in december 2019, that was probably covid. i've had it. no big deal."
- lawnchair_larry 5y ago
  And a study just released has also contradicted this “assigned opinion” being weaponized by the vaccine virtue signalers.
- nednar 5y ago
  Thanks for sharing!
criley2 5y ago
>"But the persistence of antibody production, whether elicited by vaccination or infection, does not ensure long-lasting immunity to COVID-19. The ability of some emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants to blunt the protective effects of antibodies means that additional immunizations may be needed to restore levels, says Ellebedy. “My presumption is we will need a booster.” The article talks about how the experts on this field "presume" we'll need boosters to get antibody levels high enough to combat the worse mutated variants, and of course, it could be a bit of an arms race between it mutating variants that are better against our antibodies, and us boosting our antibodies with vaccines to trigger responses and keep blood levels high.
simlevesque 5y ago
After recovery you need a single shot instead of 2.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ctdonath 5y ago
The broadly-accepted imperative requirement is "vaccinated", as in "do not enter without a mask/etc unless you have been fully vaccinated". There is never a reference to "inoculated" (to wit vaccinated or had Covid and recovered). Furthermore, there may not be "official documentation from your gov't and official health body". I was tested & 'treated', but my wife had exactly the same symptoms & recovery without bothering with doctors (seriously, it was really mild), so there is no documentation and no apparent process to procure such documentation. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Seems that, to most people, Covid & vaccines are magic: the disease is perceived little differently from evil spirits (sparing some and slaying others, with nothing corporeal to perceive & avoid), and the vaccine is a tangible talisman mysteriously able to ward off such spirits (by a mere prick from a costumed wizard wielding magic potions). This leaves most people, unable to really grasp the objective mechanism of vaccination (being a simulation of actual infection, to teach the body to fight it off), with the only objectively perceivable act they can grasp in the issue: vaccine injection. Hence many dismiss the near-spiritual notion of "I contracted it, survived, and am now immune - without intervention by wizards". Thus, to present it a bit over-the-top, recovered and vaccinated are not treated the same by those not professionally involved in medicine.
- nednar 5y ago
  > The broadly-accepted imperative requirement is "vaccinated", as in "do not enter without a mask/etc unless you have been fully vaccinated". There is never a reference to "inoculated" (to wit vaccinated or had Covid and recovered). As can be concluded from my post: Where I live vaccinated and recovered are treated the same, at least for now. > Furthermore, there may not be "official documentation from your gov't and official health body". Where I live there are laws what is permitted in super markets, restaurants, bars etc. And there are recommendations from the official health body that is responsible for the Covid topic. Often they overlap, sometimes they don't. But I think currently both agree on the vaccinated vs recovered point. All that is said just to sync up on facts. I'm not trying to convince anybody of changing their interpretation or opinion.
zamalek 5y ago
> Probably you just need to share official documentation from your government and official health body with your family. That's going to be tough[1]: > Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

mehphp 5y ago

But you _did_ catch covid so being careful isn't always enough. I don't think it's emotional or unreasonable for your family to require the vaccine before you visit. Also, I'm not suggesting that you will "kill everyone" by not getting the vaccine, but it really isn't just about you and that you personally will probably recover. Do you think it's a reasonable thing for most people to take your stance and not get vaccinated? We are at the tail end of this thing _because_ we have a vaccination available.

deweller 5y ago
The thing that I find so wrong about this type of argument is that the vaccine is not proven to prevent spreading the virus. It is only proven to stop the onset of COVID-19 after one contracts the virus. So the line of reasoning that argues one should get vaccinated to stop the spread of SARS-CoV-2 is not valid. Edit: Wow - the downvotes... There is some evidence that transmission is reduced, but it is not proven: "the risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated" https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...
- pandem 5y ago
  I'm not sure why people keep saying this. The original studies did not study if the vaccine prevents spread, that is true. I'm not certain myself, but I believe that studies done based on COVID spread in countries where vaccination rates are high (at least Israel) point to the direction that it prevents spread as well. Are these not valid data points?
  - beiller 5y ago
    There was also the Seychelles data point which had the highest vaccinated rate and then had a large outbreak after.
    - DennisP 5y ago

throwawaybutwhy 5y ago

For hard-core irrefutable evidence, get your IgG antibodies assay test done. Problem solved, you're a model citizen now.

jf22 5y ago

> I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. How many days before you are noticeably sick can you spread the flu or COVID?

foepys 5y ago
Research seems to indicate 2-3 days, if you even have symptoms. If you don't have symptoms until you fight it off.

DennisP 5y ago

Until now, virologists had little evidence on whether having covid gives you lasting immunity or not. It seems possible that you're not giving your family enough credit. The reason that not going out when you're sick is an insufficient precaution for covid is that people spread the virus for several days before they get symptoms.

camgunz 5y ago
I agree with you, and would also point out the subtitle on the article says: "though viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer". Variants are the problem here, which is the case for all anti-vax arguments.

tw04 5y ago

>I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. With the flu for instance, you are communicable before you show symptoms. Were you wearing a mask for the duration of the flu season prior to covid? That would be what responsible looks like if you're not interested in getting a shot. >I have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid and have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection. I'm not sure you can say that with 100% certainty unless you've been getting weekly tests since your initial positive results. Early studies indicate that people who get re-infected are more likely to show no symptoms the second time around, but they can still infect others. https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/12/can-someone-who-recovered-spread-COVID19 https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/12/can-someone...

ReptileMan 5y ago
The critical is infecting at what rate and for the flue how communicable. You cannot define responsible without quantified chances. The article you have given is written by people that haven't given a single probability number. But they declare that it is unsafe. Declaring un/safety without measuring risk is senseless.

eplanit 5y ago

"get the vaccine or you are a bad citizen and will kill everyone" Yep. Notice how the "follow science" phrase isn't used anymore. It's now just a demand to comply, or else you're a horrible person.

kyleblarson 5y ago
And it's especially ironic given that most of the shaming is coming from the 'my body my choice' proponents on other issues.
- silvester23 5y ago
  If you are referring to a pro-choice stance, I don't think that's really comparable to a situation where your choice can severely affect not only yourself but all people around you.
  - eplanit 5y ago
    But many would argue that there is damage to society from that, too.

JPKab 5y ago

I'm in a pretty weird position right now myself. I caught it in mid-February with mild symptoms basically just loss of smell. I have very high antibodies and my physician actually recommended that I hold off on getting the vaccine. Unfortunately, I have several co-workers who refuse to attend a picnic if I'm there. All of them are vaccinated which indicates to me that there is no logic and simply a demand that I adhere to the same religion they do. Because honestly it's sure feels like a religion with these people.

ctdonath 5y ago
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Yeah, Covid vaccination has achieved religious fervor among many.
epistasis 5y ago
For understanding people's responses to this, I think it's best to think of it as a war. The human race is under attack, millions of us have died, and we are hurting emotionally. During this time, we've had politicians actively say we should just give up and let the enemy kill 10x as many people, and enough people have followed these politicians' views to effect the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands in the US. This may not be your view, but it is the view of many, that we are under attack, and people's lives are at stake. A ton of people have lost loved ones. Or they've had loved ones at deaths door and on oxygen and suffering for weeks. So while you view those vaccinated folks who don't want to be around unvaccinated people as having a "religion," it may be just that they view you as a traitor to humanity. Back during the Iraq war, I didn't support us starting it, and for that position many people treated me far far worse than simply not wanting to be at a company picnic with them. The people who treated me poorly for my views often had family who were in the military, and didn't want to think that they were putting their lives at risk for nothing. It wasn't even that the US itself was at risk, it's that they wanted their family to be risking their lives for a cause everyone supported. So when people have been fighting against a local enemy that is hurting us all, I'm surprised the reaction is so mild as to not want to be at the same picnic.
sigstoat 5y ago
> I have very high antibodies and my physician actually recommended that I hold off on getting the vaccine. what was their reasoning?

nknealk 5y ago

> I have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid and have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection. I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. People can get covid twice [1]. Especially older people who are at higher risk of death. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

ldng 5y ago
In a year and a half, Veratti, a football player for PSG, got it 3 times. Reinfection is a real tangible thing.

unethical_ban 5y ago

Arguments against your case: * Outlets had previously been reporting that mild cases do not give enough immune response to be lasting * Variants might not be caught by the natural immune response, but the vaccines are showing to be pretty effective with them. * Many people also think it's selfish not to get the free flu vaccines each year, so it isn't surprising that after a pandemic where half a million Americans died due to the spread of this disease, "No I'm good" seems callous. Surprise, you live in a society - and I don't say that sentence ironically. Yes, science and reality is important. That's why the fact that the vaccine is a sure shot vs. you winging it with your prior illness, despite the fact the vaccines are overwhelmingly safe, gives some people pause.

74d-fe6-2c6 5y ago
> Surprise, you live in a society - and I don't say that sentence ironically. You should. Majority of Muricans is not even willing to pay into a communal health insurance. So much for the level of society. > That's why the fact that the vaccine is a sure shot That take is not scientific at all. There have been several issues reported with the vaccines.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Here you are, trying to say that Covid is less of a threat to yourself and others than the vaccine. Very few reactions have occurred. If you're worried about it, also don't go outside, cross a street, or go swimming in any body of water.
  - swader999 5y ago
    We still don't have enough data on whether this will suffer ADE. If parent is young, isn't in a highly infectious area and behaves cautiously, they may be making a less risky decision.
    - amluto 5y ago
      We absolutely have enough data to rule out meaningful ADE. Study after study (the phase 3 trials and all the ongoing surveillance) indicates a massive reduction in the rate of severe infection among vaccine recipients. Sure, one can quibble about whether maybe some of the very small number of people who got a vaccine more than a couple weeks before a severe COVID case had a form of ADE, but that’s like saying that we haven’t ruled out that seatbelts might kill people. In both cases, the risk that a protective measure harms the recipient is massively outweighed by the degree to which the protective measure protects the recipient.

exotree 5y ago

Things are being put into your body with or without your knowledge. You had no idea if you were infectious with COVID for up to 14 days possibly, so it doesn’t matter if you didn’t go out when you “felt sick.” You may feel like your being responsible, but that does not mean you feeling that way actually means you are being that way. Over 500,000 people have died. Awesome. You recovered. A lot of other people didn’t. I wouldn’t be so confident you’ll always recover. And it’s possible that you’ll infect folks who can’t recover along the way, because of your “lack of interest.”

heyflyguy 5y ago
Like I said, emotional arguments.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Nothing the parent poster said is an emotional argument - quite the opposite. It may be that you have an emotional response to those facts but that does not make it an emotional argument.
  - heyflyguy 5y ago
    Sarcasm is expressing emotion.

ppljudge 5y ago

Not really fact based affirming you “always recover”. Besides, I know people who got COVID twice or more.

Accacin 5y ago

Yeah, but you did get it. I'm not particularly careful myself, but I obey our local laws, wear a mask when required, etc. and I haven't caught it but I'm still getting my vaccination on Monday. It's also baffling to me that you say you act responsible and two paragraphs later admit to being around people who have had COVID! To me, it's completely irresponsible to not get a vaccine if offered but I'm not going to hold it against you and I can at least understand where you are coming from.

JTbane 5y ago

There are cases of even young, healthy people getting severe complications from COVID. This is not "just the flu".

nickthemagicman 5y ago

People talked about 'saving granny' to get you to comply with Covid restrictions but now there's literally granny's dying in India and we're giving the vaccine to perfectly healthy people in America and no one gives it a second thought! Meanwhile, under 55 age group has a fatality chance of Covid that is less than dying in a car accident and will develop immunity after natural infection. And the under 55 age group makes up over 80% of the population. I completely agree about fact based realities needing to take hold again! I think we may be in a post-truth society and all that matters to people is what's the news media report instead of actual science and statistics. The upside to people getting their reality from the media is that when the news media quits reporting on an issue it will be COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN ABOUT, much like darfur, metoo, blm, starving children, dead innocent civilians in the middle east. Poof it will just vanish in the wind as long as the politicians don't make it actionable. So just hold out for a bit longer and the news media will stop reporting on Covid and switch to a new topic that people can be outraged over. And no one will care at all about your vaccine.

skeeter2020 5y ago
What about the fact that a VERY small sacrifice on your part of getting a vaccine plays a VERY small part in preventing an older or compromised person from getting VERY sick? > we're giving the vaccine to perfectly healthy people in America and no one gives it a second thought! You always give vaccines to healthy people. >> And no one will care at all about your vaccine. I'm quite confident you'll get a vaccine when you need proof to go on your week's vacation to some beach country, or any similar personal impact.
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  >> You always give vaccines to healthy people. Directly from your previous sentence: "preventing an older or compromised person from getting VERY sick" (disengenuous of you) >>I'm quite confident you'll get a vaccine.... Don't be. This will all but forgotten in a few months. :)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

If there was still a shortage of vaccines I'd totally agree with you, they should go to someone who doesn't already have immunity. But that's not the case, so I do think you have a responsibility. From an administrative standpoint, it's much easier to confirm that everyone has had the vaccine. And, there's some evidence that the vaccine provides better immunity than the virus itself. IMO, this is even more true for the flu vaccine! Flu vaccines are less effective on an individual level, so as a society we're more reliant on collective immunity to slow down the spread. Lots of people die from the flu, and a little shot each year can help keep them alive!

JamesSwift 5y ago

Did you ever consider that you might have been the vector that Covid traveled through to infect all those folks around you that came down with Covid? When you draw out the network graph of Covid transmission, how many people do you think your specific infection affected downstream? I'm not going to say you have to get vaccinated against anything, but I do see it in a lot of ways like a game of tug-of-war with society vs disease. Sure, its not essential that _everyone_ be pulling on the rope but it sure makes it a lot easier if they are. And things get really bad if more and more people stop pulling on it, especially if the other side starts getting stronger.

sschueller 5y ago

In Switzerland the government does not want people who have had covid within the last six months to get the vaccination. Additionally if you do want to get the vaccination after 6 month they only want you to get 1 shot not 2. Does the US not differentiate between those who have had it and those that didn't?

loveistheanswer 5y ago
>Does the US not differentiate between those who have had it and those that didn't? No they do not. Public messaging has completely ignored natural immunity.

skeeter2020 5y ago

>> I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. a. you caught covid, so does your approach work? b. you are often ill and contagious before you have any symptoms so unless you never go out this isn't sufficient c. you get vaccinated and a flu shot for the holistic group, i.e. society. When individuals talk about personal rights and the "me" I question if they get this. >> I have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid and have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection. I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. OK, here's one: your casual anecdote is not a factual reality.

amluto 5y ago
I get a flu shot to protect others and to protect myself. I was very clearly exposed to the H1N1 pandemic flu a few weeks after getting the vaccine, and, to the extent I got sick at all, I had minimal symptoms. I can’t know the extent to which my vaccine protected me or protected people around me, but, on expectation, it certainly provided a considerable amount of protection to me and others. (For all that the H1N1 pandemic flu was minor compared to COVID, it still put a lot of people in the hospital. I’m quite glad I didn’t get a severe case.)

nkozyra 5y ago

> have yet to encounter a second infection or positive test since my initial infection Science generally saves us from trusting anecdotes, though. I know two people who were reinfected within five months, but I wouldn't conclude it's likely.

D13Fd 5y ago

This position is selfish. Covid is very often asymptomatic but still spreads. There is no way you can know that you haven't had it again, haven't spread it to others, and won't continue to do so without a vaccine. And while it may be asymptomatic for you, you can still spread it to others who it will be very symptomatic for - including others who have been diligent and have taken the vaccine. You can kill people without knowing it. The longer people go unvaccinated, the more likely mutations are to catch on, which may defeat the vaccine. You are placing your general dislike of "putting things into my body" above all of our safety and welfare, and you are interfering with our collective efforts to end this pandemic and move on for the sake of our health and economy. Please don't be so selfish.

titzer 5y ago
I wanted to write this comment, but you said it better. The OP's post is entirely about themself, evidenced in that it is written in a completely self-centered way. "I am experiencing social shaming and being shunned for a position I take where I show absolutely no concern for others. And yet they don't subscribe to my superior reasoning powers. My feelings are so hurt!" Cry us a river, dude.
mantismd 5y ago
Asymptotic transmission has been proven to be negligible and non-issue.
- dada78641 5y ago
  There's actually still a fair number of people who get their first COVID-19 infection and never develop any symptoms at all, although it's a lot less than the initial research indicated early on in the pandemic: https://jammi.utpjournals.press/doi/10.3138/jammi-2020-0030 https://jammi.utpjournals.press/doi/10.3138/jammi-2020-0030 But a much bigger problem is presymptomatic transmission, which is why this disease was able to spread so steadily. Aside from that, there are people with symptoms that are so minor they never even consider themselves sick (although hopefully today people are more vigilant about this).
swader999 5y ago

mywittyname 5y ago

Repeat infections of covid have been confirmed and now that the CDC is tracking variants, we know that the dominant strains shift very rapidly. Meaning that you could be exposed to a mutated version for which your immunity is blunted or completely absent. The vaccines are only 85-99% effective. So your family is still at risk for getting and spreading the infection. And if you're the spreader, it's possible that it would be a resistant strain. My attitude mirrors that of your family. And it has more to do with doing ones part to combat this pandemic and return to normal. I got a vaccine less for my own person safety, but more for the good of society. I want people to be safe, feel safe, and I want front line workers -- who've given so much -- to finally get a break. You're not willing to make this same, minor sacrifice for society that everyone else did. It makes sense that you'd be shunned by people who want this to be over with.

lawnchair_larry 5y ago
Man am I ever sick of this attitude. That high ground you’re looking down on other people from certainly has an extremely weak foundation based on what we know currently. Consider a little respect and humility. You might be wrong. Many of the the loudest voices throughout this whole covid affair are currently muffled as they can’t eat and talk at the same time, lest they choke on their massive servings of humble pie for being so wrong about something they were so certain about.

armchairhacker 5y ago

Ok, I agree your family might be overreacting, and that it isn't a "big deal" you're not getting the vaccine. But you really should get the vaccine, at least if you're in a place with abundant supply. There's just no good argument against it. The odds of "putting things in your body" having any effect on you are far less than the odds of getting Covid again, even if those odds are low. And mine as well make your family happy.

lawnchair_larry 5y ago
> The odds of "putting things in your body" having any effect on you are far less than the odds of getting Covid again, even if those odds are low. Regardless on one’s position, this is simply baseless bullshit. Please don’t spread it.

forty 5y ago

If you are healthy, getting vaccinated against covid is not something you do for you, it's something you do for others. That's how vaccine works, when enough people are vaccinated, the epidemic stops. Some viruses evolves and for those a vaccine is required regularly (like flu, maybe covid). I can totally understand that you are not worried for yourself (I feel the same) but don't be surprised that people are unhappy that you don't care about them. And you say you don't go out when you get sick, but I'm not sure how you would do that for covid, since covid can in many cases be asymptomatic. I'm not sure how it works in your country, but here people that already had covid only get one vaccine shot, as the covid infection is counted as the first one.

randomopining 5y ago
It’s amazing that people don’t understand this. If you have a condition or something that it could affect, sure don’t get the vaccine. I’m fine with that. But if you’re healthy and esp if you didn’t have covid yet, getting the shot is patriotic. Fools try to twist it otherwise.

dognotdog 5y ago

FWIW, several non-vaccinated acquaintances of mine in different countries have gotten COVID for the 2nd time, though anecdotally somewhat less severe in the second round. Is any data, yet, available about how reduced the contagiousness is for getting infected for the 2nd time naturally, vs. having the vaccine? For both catching and spreading it?

mrozbarry 5y ago

The main issue is that there is a very ill-defined wall between vaccines from science and a political agenda. The average human (except maybe the elderly?) does not have the same problems with flu season and vaccination in the same way we view covid. Granted, covid is a big problem, but the mortality rate is about 10% [0]. The main difference here is that the flu season is mostly dictated by science, there are no public restrictions and people go about their lives mostly without consequence. Covid is a different beast for a bunch of reasons, and one major one is politics. I have never up until this point in my life saw the amount of political pressure that everyone needs to be vaccinated. Probably going more off opinion that fact at this point, but I can't foresee any place in the world going back to normal once n% of people get vaccinated. At least the mayo clinic doesn't seem certain on what the long term effects of the current vaccines will be [1], specifically around "A COVID-19 vaccine might...Prevent you from getting COVID-19 or from becoming seriously ill or dying due to COVID-19." The CDC website seems to have more confident information, but I'm not convinced that we actually have the long-term data yet to back that up, but I'm open to being corrected with any studies that last more than 2 months, and use saline for control groups (and not another vaccine, which seems to be the popular method, which I'm also interested in opinions on). So _if_ the vaccines don't provided long term protection from being sick AND spreading the disease, don't expect vaccinated percentages to change the state of the current lockdowns. I've been told I'm a bad citizen for just waiting for data that proves that shooting this vaccine in my body will actually support a good long term solution. [0] https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...

AifVI 5y ago

Your comment history shows your aversion to "putting things into my body" doesn't extend to MDMA. I'd suggest that taking the COVID-19 vaccine to help save our economy from a global pandemic, and to protect your family, has a better risk/reward ratio than taking recreational narcotics for a fun weekend.

74d-fe6-2c6 5y ago

It is absolutely okay to not get vaccinated! And if your family shuns you for that then you should question your family and the quality of their relationship to you. Especially because everybody who is afraid of Covid can get vaccinated ... so, then they are reasonbly protected. If they are afraid and not vaccinated then they can ask you to not seek physical proximity. I mean that's fine - but that's not shunning. Also you do not have any resonsibility to do that for society. The society we live in is not even close to the level of solidarity and empathy to demand anything from an individual beyond respecting the law and paying taxes.

borvo 5y ago

They might be shunning you due to your non-fact based opinions and consequent risky behavior: * I've had COVID and recovered * also don't get a flu shot each year * have continuously been near or around folks that have come down with Covid And you think your family are the ones with the emotional arguments (!) Sorry this happened to you, but you're the one in the wrong here.

revel 5y ago

I'm not going to shame you for this but I think you have some misconceptions about the vaccines vs naturally acquired immunity that might impact your decision. Naturally acquired immunity from the original strain of covid-19 is not effective against some of the other variants. The strain currently ravaging India has infected many individuals who had been sick before, sometimes extremely seriously. The mRNA vaccines don't work the same way as old school vaccines. They're better technology and they're also much more effective than natural immunity. Basically by getting the vaccine you won't get seriously ill and you won't die. You're also less likely to get infected with the strains. Nobody can force you to get a shot but you're helping protect yourself and other people by getting it. I hope you reconsider.

yosito 5y ago

> I look forward to when greater fact-based realities start to take hold again. Sounds like you ought to start with yourself, to be frank.