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Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
- coding123 5y agoThat seems quite different from what I read last few days.
- yreg 5y agoThis transcript was released by belarussian authorities
- ptudan 5y agoHmm, I'm more curious in reading the interaction when they bring up the fighter jet. Does anyone have a link to that?
- chrismeller 5y agoAll the info from ATC is in that just vague enough category that you wonder if it’s just a language barrier issue or if what you’re thinking is really happening. I feel like the pilot knew something was off, but eventually went along with it because he didn’t really have any other choice. Is Belarus going to become another country international airlines avoid flying over?
- dboreham 5y ago> pilot knew something was off The whole "there's a bomb that can be detonated over Vilnius" so you have to divert to an airport further away, where I am speaking from" thing sounds like a B-movie plot.
- fy20 5y agoAt the point they diverted they could have also flown to Kaunas (a Ryanair base) if the concern was to avoid flying over Vilnius. That would also have been closer than Minsk.
- StavrosK 5y agoI don't think the pilot was aware of any reason not to fly to Minsk at the time.
- bobthepanda 5y agoFlight plans include alternate airports, and Minsk is far enough away compared to other airports to not be on a filed flight plan for this particular route.
- VBprogrammer 5y agoFiled alternatives are for fuel planning and satisfying the bureaucracy (showing the flight complies with ETOPS etc). In a real emergency the pilots will select the most convenient airport based on whatever factors they are presented with. Especially so in today's world of paperless cockpits, in the past having the correct approaches to hand might have tipped the balance in favour of a planned alternative.
- bobthepanda 5y agoSure, and judging by the transcript Minsk wasn't the pilot's choice.
- md_ 5y agoBelarus is already such a country. https://www.npr.org/2021/05/24/999920538/eu-asks-all-eu-based-airlines-to-avoid-belarusian-airspace-after-forced-landing https://www.npr.org/2021/05/24/999920538/eu-asks-all-eu-base...
- publicola1990 5y agoI doubt Russian, Ukrainian airlines will stope overflying Belrus.
- davidgay 5y agohttps://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-bans-belarus-flights-over-lukashenkas-air-piracy/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-b...
- petre 5y agoRussia yes, but Ukraine has no reason not to follow suit. Even ignoring the fact that this is the right thing to do, they want good relations with the EU and NATO instead of being isolated like Belarus. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_37750.htm https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_37750.htm
- tootie 5y agoIt's also possible the ATC was in the dark. Maybe their boss just told them there was a bomb threat and make them divert and don't ask questions.
- dboreham 5y agoSo the pilot said "no", at which point the agents on board staged a hijack.
- king_magic 5y agoHuh? Where exactly in that transcript does the pilot explicitly say “no”? Where are you getting the information that agents on the plane hijacked it?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- r721 5y ago>Where are you getting the information that agents on the plane hijacked it? That was an early rumor from another Nexta editor: >Then when the plane has entered Belarus airspace KGB officers initiated a fight with the Ryanair crew >insisting there’s an IED onboard. Eventually the crew was forced to send out SOS (literally moments before the plane would've left Belarus airspace). https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396446650718117890 https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396446650718117890 I think it's still unconfirmed (or even can be called disproved at this point)?
- ThalesX 5y agoI'm getting Access Denied to the article. It seems to be available on archive.org [0]... [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210525165724/https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/they-say-code-is-red-transcript-controller-telling-plane-land-minsk-2021-05-25/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210525165724/https://www.reute...
- Sebb767 5y ago> Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? Is it usual for a pilot to ask for all this information? From a "casual reader" perspective, it looks like the pilot really did not want to divert, but this might just be my reading.
- gspr 5y agoDefinitely not usual. As for the pilot being suspicious, I agree. The plane was also only about 30 km (=2-3 min flying time) from the Lithuanian border. Imagine if the pilot had decided to make the attempt. A Belarusian MiG violating NATO airspace?
- djxfade 5y agoRussian airforces regularly violates NATO airspace in Norway. They never get any consequences for it, so why wouldn't they?
- ddalex 5y agoBecause a MiG firing on a NATO-country airplane that's in NATO airspace is definitely sound reason of invoking NATO Art 5
- Judgmentality 5y agoThere is an enormous leap between "violating airspace" and "shooting down a passenger plane while violating airspace"
- davidw 5y agoThe Russians, via their proxies in Ukraine, blew up an airliner a few years back.
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- nevermindiguess 5y agoThis is actually a good development. A number of countries purporting to hold the highest standards on human rights were actually the ones to use this tactic of diverting flights to apprehended those they deemed to be their enemies. I am referring to the United States and EU countries in the Snowden case and other cases before that. They lowered the bar first. Now Belarus joined to the new level. It’ll be interesting to see the impact this has on their plans to keep lowering the bar for everyone in the world. Or perhaps some common sense will prevail?
- FartyMcFarter 5y agoCitation please?
- appleiigs 5y agohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/24/belarus-flight-evo-morales-sndowden-russia/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/24/belarus-flig...
- shakermakr 5y agoNot hard, but can read CNN here: https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-presidential-plane https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-pr... The irony of using CNN as a cite though... :)
- samuel 5y agoAFAIK, countries may lawfully deny entry to their airspace. If the outcome is that an aeroplane has to divert its route, well, tough luck. Those countries played their cards. To be a comparable case two conditions should be met, namely that a) the bomb threat is real, and b) landing in Minsk the most rational decision. If both a) and b) are real, well, everything was lawfully managed and the blogger just had bad luck. But if they aren't, no it's not the same case at all.
- zentiggr 5y agoYour thoughts remind me a bit of the Gabriel character is the end of the movie Constantine - (paraphrased) Since you humans can't seem to appreciate what God's granted you in this free will thing, I'm going to help bring hell on Earth and mass murder you wholesale, so the ones left over will be more appreciative" Not saying that I have any better alternative... politics have always seemed to me to be more of a "I just want to hold onto control of anything I can manage" system, as opposed to a "I'm going to try to bring understanding and the best good for all" system.
- Arech 5y ago> Following are excerpts from the transcript, which Reuters was unable to verify. Why do they even post it then?
- 2mol 5y agoBecause (in the modern news cycle) being first is more important than the risk of being wrong?
- vbezhenar 5y agoTo manipulate opinions.
- yupper32 5y agoBecause the source is likely good enough to post. MSNBC reported on some CNN reporting the other week, while acknowledging that they haven't independently verified it yet. MSNBC was not saying that CNN isn't credible, it's just that they like to clarify that they haven't verified it themselves yet.
- ethbr0 5y agoATC traffic is still unencrypted right? I'd assume multiple parties have recordings.
- capableweb 5y agoYes, still unencrypted but I don't think any ATCs upload their recordings themselves. It's volunteers that record and upload recordings to sites like liveatc.net. So it requires that someone was already recording the ATC at Minsk for this recording to be available. Not sure how big the aviation community is in Belarus but I took a quick look and couldn't find anything.
- barbazoo 5y agoAbsolutely. You can listen in via pages like https://www.liveatc.net/ https://www.liveatc.net/. There are even recordings but the list isn't complete obviously: https://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php https://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- wolpoli 5y ago> ATC: They say code is red. Shouldn't ATC just say the code is red instead of trying to distance him/herself from it? Could any pilots here provide more context?
- bdamm 5y agoPrivate pilot here. ATC are usually trained to follow very specific dialogues, and pilots are trained to expect them. ATC and pilots are also together in somewhat of a fraternity. This would be a very unusual dialogue and so it makes sense to me that the ATC would feel the need to decorate the instruction, given that it is not one the pilot nor ATC would have ever participated in before.
- jahabrewer 5y agoUnbelievable that they'd go through this charade to arrest ~Snowden~ Protasevich.
- intricatedetail 5y agoIt is mostly testing Biden administration. First Israel now Belarus. Probably more disruption is coming as so far responses are weak.
- morelisp 5y agoEvery time someone makes this comparison all it does is strengthen Lukashenko and Putin's propaganda machine. It doesn't help Protasevich, it doesn't help Snowden, and it doesn't create room for any positive political change.
- Blackthorn 5y agoIf the comparison to a recent event is strengthening the propaganda machine of those regimes, that says a lot more about said recent event than it does about those regimes.
- mempko 5y agoYou are assuming there is a neutral third party. Yes, the comparison does strengthen Putin's propaganda machine. But not mentioning it strengthens the US propaganda machine. You are picking sides either way.
- morelisp 5y agoNot mentioning it does nothing. The US propaganda machine is not hurt in any way by mentioning it. It happened nearly a decade ago and is not really a similar situation in any way except that it involved a plane.
- Aperocky 5y agoIt wasn't similar because Snowden wasn't actually on that plane. If he was, you think he wouldn't be arrested and would just fly with Morales to Bolivia? The agents that searched the plane was just there to say hi?
- donretag 5y agoThe controller[s] were probably just as powerless as the pilot (considering the fighter escort). Get that plane to land, period. Were they reading from a script and did they improvise?
- barbazoo 5y agoThe pilot is not powerless at all in "usual" emergencies. Declaring an emergency allows them to do pretty much anything. Once you get hijacked by a fighter plane though, that's a different story.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago> The pilot is not powerless at all in "usual" emergencies. Declaring an emergency allows them to do pretty much anything. Arguably once you are within firing range of two Mig-29's, the power dynamics changes slightly.
- barbazoo 5y agoThat's what I said in the only part of my response you didn't quote, yes.
- terom 5y agoThe caa.gov.by news release has a much more complete (Belarusian-sourced) transcript than the edited Reuters one: http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/ http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/ EDIT: copy-pasta from (Belarusian) source https://gist.github.com/SpComb/849b97bae720cb77ab4c43ef92daec59 https://gist.github.com/SpComb/849b97bae720cb77ab4c43ef92dae...
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago"Resource Limit Is Reached" :-(
- stordoff 5y agoGoogle Cache currently has a copy: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fcaa.gov.by%2Fru%2Fnews-ru%2Fview%2F1-203%2F https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoYou can not possibly trust their version.
- terom 5y agoIndeed, based on the caa.gov.by domain this is presumably an authentic/official Belarus release, so you need to interpret it as such - it's their version of the story.
- jbverschoor 5y agobut you can blindly trust reuters?
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoReuters seems to have reposted a shorter version of the .by statement. They should have waited until Lithuania publishes their transcript or some amateur listening station releases their audio recording.
- r721 5y ago>according to a transcript released on Tuesday by authorities in Belarus. >Following are excerpts from the transcript, which Reuters was unable to verify. I would wait for a Ryanair transcript.
- FabHK 5y agoThat would be interesting. Not sure the airline has one, the CVR normally records only the last two hours IIRC.
- yreg 5y agoIs there no save button when something substancial happens?
- bombcar 5y agoYou'd think that squaking 7700 would immediately put the recorders into write-only mode.
- r721 5y agoThey could officially confirm this transcript then (if it's legit)? I mean we shouldn't trust Lukashenko with this stuff, he officially released some wild fakes: >Alyaksandr Lukashenka declared recently that he got proof that Western powers stand behind both the Navalny case and the protests in Belarus. 4 September, the Belarusian security services, KGB (yes, KGB), published an audio recording of a super-secret conversation between officers of the German and Polish special forces, discussing details on the Navalny poisoning and noting that Lukashenka has proven to be a hard nut to crack. https://euvsdisinfo.eu/mike-and-nick-vs-die-hard-lukashenka/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/mike-and-nick-vs-die-hard-lukashenka/
- marvin 5y agoLooking forward to read the transcripts from the cockpit voice recorder. Curious to know whether the pilots knew or suspected that there were intelligence operatives on board.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- neves 5y agoDon't forget that the country that started to divert planes to catch democrat dissidents was the United States. But Snowden wasn't in the plane. Details here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mounts-recall https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...
- Calvin02 5y agoIt is asinine to compare the two situations. Greenwald is wrongly equating the two together for his puppeteers. 1) Snowden had already been charged at that point and was running from the law. Morales's plane was diverted because it was believed to be providing passage to a criminal. While I don't know what Snowden did was right or wrong, it is clear that Snowden broke laws. His intentions might have been good but he broke some very serious laws. 2) Roman Protasevich, on the other hand, is a blogger. He hasn't released any state secrets that he swore an oath to protect.
- bb611 5y agoEven if you believe that there's little difference between Snowden and Protasevich, the scenarios are clearly different. Rescinding permission to transit is a far cry from falsely reporting a bomb threat, backing it up with military force, and then searching the plane and taking multiple passengers into custody as a condition of the plane's release.
- dingaling 5y ago> Rescinding permission to transit Thought experiment: what could have been the immediate consequences of disregarding that rescindment and continuing with the flightplan as filed?
- FeeJai 5y agoThey might have been intercepted by military. It is doubtful that they would have been shot down, but it would have been legal to do so. The big difference is: No one forced them to land at a specific location -- they could have turned around and fly all the way back to Russia had they desired to do so. They landed in Austria because they decided to go to a neutral country and that they wanted to avoid NATO. It is fairly obvious that not letting someone enter is very different from letting enter and then coerce.
- weinzierl 5y agoThis is the most interesting part for me: PILOT ASKS FOR FURTHER DETAILS Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? There he was on the right track to do what we always recommend to avoid being fished: Independently verify from the original source. Controller: This is our recommendations. Minsk thwarts it by telling the truth and going into Milgram Experiment mode: Pilot: Can you say again? Controller: This is our recommendations. Pilot: (unreadable.) Pilot: Did you say that your recommendation? PILOT AGREES TO LAND IN MINSK Unfortunately (but understandably) pilot obeys.
- xibalba 5y agoWasn't this "recommendation" accompanied by a fighter jet? That isn't exact a Milgram scenario.
- balozi 5y agoIs there any indication that the pilots were aware of the military jet?
- publicola1990 5y agoIs there even a credible report of it being accompanied by a military jet? The reports I have seen are all sketchy on that part.
- estaseuropano 5y agoI think what you are doing ia astroturfing but just in case anyone believes this bullshit, there is zero doubt that a fighter jet went up and 'escorted' the plane. https://apnews.com/article/belarus-europe-edcf633281e3e9a55b2d994b96eb029b https://apnews.com/article/belarus-europe-edcf633281e3e9a55b... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/05/belarus-journalist-apprehended-in-minsk-airport-after-emergency-landing-must-be-released-immediately/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/05/belarus-journ... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-23/belarus-detains-reporter-on-ryanair-flight-forced-down-in-minsk https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-23/belarus-d... In case of any doubt left, here is an official sanction decision on this signed by 27 countries: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021/05/24/belarus-declaration-by-the-high-representative-on-behalf-of-the-eu-on-the-forced-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-fr4978-to-minsk-on-23-may-2021/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021...
- 88840-8855 5y agoWhat about the claim that there was a bomb on that plane? From what I have read there was an email sent from a protonmail account and was talking about the Israel/Hamas situation. Are there any developments in that field?
- T-A 5y agohttps://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/hamas-rejects-belarus-claim-over-plane-bomb-threat https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/hamas-rejects-belar...
- durnygbur 5y agoIf one attempts to scratch the facade of a "great" long-ruling leader one will be torn down with all available means. Regardless whether the leader is a chancellor of a developed country, member of a major political dynasty in superpower country, or a head of a poor authocratic state. Only difference is Belarus cannot afford to buy some positive press. Go ahead western world, agitate these poor youngsters to hop into abyss. They don't seem to be aware that the stake is not IG sponsorship deal but their life.
- nathanaldensr 5y agoSorry, but it sounds like you're making death threats.
- durnygbur 5y agoIt's a mere observation.
- yreg 5y agoAre airliners in contact with their airlines, via say satelite phone? Would the pilot be able to verify with Ryanair HQ whether they know about the bomb threat they are being fed from ATC? Of course when the recomendation is accompanied by a fighter jet one doesn't have a choice regardless, but I'm still curious whether they are at ATC's mercy for information.
- caturopath 5y agoI would imagine that a pilot couldn't give two fucks about what the airline has to say when they think it's a life safety issue.
- knz_ 5y agoThe people who collaborate with these regimes should be publicly named. I wouldn't be surprised if the agents would have detonated an actual bomb if the fake threat hadn't worked. Perhaps Russia has already done this in the past, and went undetected due to ISIS trying to take credit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrojet_Flight_9268 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrojet_Flight_9268 Honestly, it's becoming harder by the day to view them as people. Ever since 2014 I've wonder if the world would simply be better off without Russia and it's satellite states. I've never met someone from these countries that was worthwhile. Not once.
- Badfood 5y agoGiven that it's simple for anyone to setup a powerful radio to spoof ATC, and it probably would be too hard to sabotage the real ATC radio, I'm surprised planes haven't been hijacked like this before, but without the use of official ATC.
- stretchwithme 5y agoSo it was a fake bomb threat coming from the government.