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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
- sneak 5y agoAnd, yet, we didn’t do this to Austria (or any of the other countries in Europe that cancelled use of the airspace) when the plane suspected to be carrying Snowden (but wasn’t, and was actually carrying a head of state) was forced down in Vienna based on a phone call from the US, to be swatted upon landing. Only the “bad guys” are terrorists when they do this. The double standard here in the west is astounding. The precise same actions are either non-news or “terrorism” simply depending on the state performing the action. Well, in any case, I take heart in any case that some people aren’t going to seem to get away with doing this.
- 5cents 5y agoThis claim is repeated again and again; yet the circumstances and the actual event (there was no forcing down) were very different; see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27256946 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27256946
- sneak 5y agoA careful reading of the wikipedia page shows the truth. Whether you revoke airspace permits and force the plane down based on fuel reserves, or scramble fighter jets, the net effect is the same: the plane lands before when it was planning to, if it wants to do so in one piece. Let’s not split hairs here when the precise same political motivation, and the precise same mechanism was used (the threat of fighters if the plane continues). The fun part is that the whole ruse was an Assange trick, and without Snowden ever touching the aircraft, Assange got the US to tip their hand that they’re more than happy to engage in such shitty and underhanded techniques, even against a head of state.
- V-2 5y agoWell - they obviously had enough fuel to simply fly back to Russia if Snowden were actually on board. I'm not saying I support that action - I'm only pointing out these two incidents aren't quite in the same category.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y agoIt's also possible to disagree with both actions, which handily destroys the "But you did it first" attempted defence.
- tsimionescu 5y agoI don't the think the thread was about defending Lukashenko's terrorist act, it was about reminding everyone that, shamefully, such acts are not limited to demented regimes like his. We are all right to be outraged by what happened in Belarus. We should also be even more outraged when our own governments,which we nominally have some control over, do similar things.
- vetinari 5y agoIt is possible to disagree with both actions; but it doesn't destroy "but you did it first" defense. The precedent[1] happened and was generally accepted, so unless you want to go the quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi route, it is supposed to be acceptable defense. The principal way is to reject that defense for all cases, including the first one. [1] And not just Morales' plane; this happened more often than that. Morales and Snowden were just high profile.
- toyg 5y agoYeah, the Snowden affaire should have been the impetus for a new convention on civil airspace. It would have been a good chance to also mop up some of the worst abuses post-9/11, and re-commit US and NATO to a respectful and democratic future. Sadly the chance was completely missed, even after the red rage for the leak had somewhat dissipated. And here we are.
- tsimionescu 5y agoHow would the plane have gotten back to Russia from Austria, even if it did have enough fuel (according to the Wikipedia article, that was not clear to the crew)? Why do you think Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, even Ukraine would not have similarly refused access if the crew had not landed in Austria of their own will?
- VortexDream 5y agoYes. Because EU countries sent fighter jets and claimed a fake bomb threat to forcibly take control of the plane. Get out of here with that bullshit.
- pydry 5y agoCountries that refuse access to their airspace will generally send fighter jets if you violate it. The implicit threat of something going badly wrong if they did not land was still there. And, in both cases it was a dissident committing acts of public service they were after. It was NOT a terrorist. Even if you manage to convince yourself that the two actions were in no way equivalent that's not how it will play in Belarus. Lukashenko knows that downing Morales plane gives him extra moral authority among his people ("this is standard even the US does it") which is probably why he risked it.
- VortexDream 5y agoAnd yet permission to fly over their airspace wasn't revoked while they were in their airspace. If they had wanted to do so, they could have. They did not. So I don't see the sense in constructing this strawman of "oh but it meant they could've scrambled fighters". If Lukashenko had done the same thing France had done, the plane wouldn't have been allowed to enter Belarusian airspace. That's not what he did. What he did was far more egregious and far more dangerous and threatening.
- pydry 5y agoshrug The net result was the same - a plane was grounded through deception so a dissident could be arrested. Nobody was hurt by either action. I don't think Belarussians are going to split these hairs. I suspect also that pro western politicians on Belarussian TV will be goaded into defending what the US did to Morales. They are now placed in an extremely awkward position. If we then hit the country with sanctions over this ordinary Belarussians are going to be bitter about the hypocrisy (of which they'll be made fully aware) and it will play directly into Lukashenko's hands.
- namdnay 5y agoEvo Morales' plane? From what I gathered it wasn't forced down in Austria, it's just that they were refused entry into the airspaces of several countries and the pilots weren't sure about the remaining fuel levels. Apparently the whole thing was a stunt by Julian Assange? Don't know how true that is Definitely a bit dodgy though
- sneak 5y ago> that they were refused entry into the airspaces of several countries Countries that minutes earlier they were cleared to fly through, and had planned to fly through. Had they ignored the refusal and proceeded as planned? Same ending: fighter jets. Let’s not pretend here that this is different.
- user-the-name 5y agoVery much NOT the same ending. Had this theoretical situation happened, and had fighter jets been scrambled, they would have escorted the plane out of their airspace. They would NOT have forced it to land and arrested any passengers.
- toyg 5y agoThat's just speculation. Chances are they would have actually grounded the plane instead, because nobody would want to risk the plane falling down because of lack of fuel while being escorted. Let's be honest here: Putin and Lukashenko can get away with this sort of shit because "we" first showed that it's acceptable behaviour. This is the risk of breaking unwritten rules on the international stage: sooner or later a bad guy will do it too, and you won't have the moral high ground. This journalist, and all the others who will have to take airspace into consideration from now on, are paying for the sins of Obama.
- user-the-name 5y agoYou say "nobody would", but that is standard procedure when a plane enters an airspace it is not allowed into. I don't see why there would be an exception in this case, and you want to argue that, I think you will need to actually justify that.
- mopsi 5y agoRefusing service to a private flight carrying a politically sensitive person is very different from hijacking a scheduled civilian airliner by threatening to shoot it down if it doesn't cooperate. Refusing service is very common. For example, air routes in the Middle East can be very long because of countries that can't be flown over due to different alliances: https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20181020_MAM949.png https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e...
- enriquto 5y agoThe recent incident is painted in exactly the same light by Belarus authorities. They say that the plane was diverted due to a terrorist threat. All passengers were safely evacuated, and once the threat was cleared, they were allowed to continue their trip. During their time in Belarusian soil, one passenger was detained, for completely unrelated reasons. Of course Belarusian police could not do otherwise than detain him, for they were already looking for that person. As is evident, the whole thing is a bullshit excuse to claim plausible deniability. Exactly the same as with the Bolivian plane. The only difference is which official discourse you chose to repeat.
- fpoling 5y agoThere is an important difference. The Bolivian plane was warned sufficiently in advance and had enough fuel to flight back to Russia at that point. The Ryanair flight was forced to land with a military jet leaving the pilots no choice but to comply. But I agree that what Western Europe did to Bolivian flight backfires now badly.
- pydry 5y agoIt's not like Morales told why he was being barred entry to four different countries' air spaces. In both cases the pilot was lied to to capture a dissident and in neither case were the passengers in danger. Lukashenko's propaganda will get a boost from this. Indeed, it's possibly what emboldened him to try it, safe in the knowledge that Europe and the US could only condemn it hypocritically. The West loses moral authority when it pulls this shit - not only in their own countries but in dictatorships rhey are trying to sway.
- enriquto 5y ago> And, yet, we didn’t do this to Austria (or any of the other countries in Europe that cancelled use of the airspace) France and Spain, notably. It was a disgusting violation.
- toyg 5y agoItaly and Portugal too. Shameful page of NATO history, that.
- andersson1337 5y agoSorry for posting such empty comment but I find this post most important. It's not a victory yet when you win one battle out of many.
- egao1980 5y agoIn 2016 Ukraine downed Belorussian plane using fighter jet threats. Nobody cared. https://www.refworld.org/docid/58407f0a4.html https://www.refworld.org/docid/58407f0a4.html
- maratc 5y agoAll the Belarusian authorities need to do is to send the detained person on the next flight to Vilnius, as Ukrainian authorities have done, and this incident will be over, too.
- flixic 5y agoIn case you missed, yesterday a plane flying from Athens to Vilnius was intercepted by Belarusian fighter jet and a helicopter and landed in Minsk, to arrest an opposition journalist. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57219860 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57219860
- chinathrow 5y agohttps://www.aeroinside.com/15715/ryanair-sun-b738-near-minsk-on-may-23rd-2021-greece-calls-diversion-states-hijack https://www.aeroinside.com/15715/ryanair-sun-b738-near-minsk...
- 4cao 5y agoThis appears to be copied word-for-word from the Aviation Herald, the original source: http://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208 http://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208 Edit: seems this is allowed by AV Herald under certain circumstances [1]: > If you purchase a subscription, you are allowed to republish any textual information provided by our articles during your subscription period in any form within your publication - you are allowed to copy and paste our articles onto your website/newspaper/magazine - provided you credit The Aviation Herald properly by providing a link to our original article. And the footer of that article says: > This article is published under license from Avherald.com. © of text by Avherald.com. Anyway, it's probably better to link directly to the original (also a lighter website). 1. http://avherald.com/h?faq= http://avherald.com/h?faq=
- thih9 5y agoThe diverted plane has been discussed here yesterday at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27255561 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27255561 .
- giva 5y agohttps://www.flightradar24.com/WZZ6285/27cf8309 https://www.flightradar24.com/WZZ6285/27cf8309
- redleader55 5y agoFrom this flightradar track, it seems WizzAir is also doing this.
- bombcar 5y agoInteresting - they avoid Russia (it appears overflying Russia instead would also be about the same distance and involve only one overfly fee).
- chipsa 5y agoRussia actually only allows one airline per country to overfly, generally[1]. So if Aer Lingus already has the concession, Ryanair can't even pay. Also, doesn't really solve this because Russia wouldn't have an issue doing exactly this either. 1: https://simpleflying.com/overflight-fees/ https://simpleflying.com/overflight-fees/
- majke 5y agoApart from fuel prices, is there any economic impact? Do air carriers pay anything to the countries they fly over? (dunno, covering ATC costs?)
- ljf 5y agohttps://www.businessinsider.com/countries-charge-foreign-airlines-to-fly-through-airspace-travel-planes-international-flight-2017-9?op=1&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-charge-foreign-air... Yes it costs to fly through a country's airspace.
- toyg 5y agoA good policy, were the European Council agree on a half-decent response, would be to directly reimburse any airline for the extra costs of flying around Belarusian airspace. At that point even the Ryanair scum would probably agree to the detour.
- usr1106 5y agoPassengers can pay their tickets. If the flight path is a bit longer because of regulations they pay a bit more. No tax money needed for this.
- szatkus 5y agoHuh? Why US airspace is so extended? I found a map for that https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aba/overflight_fees/media/US_Airspace_Guam_Hawaii.png https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ab...
- unanswered 5y agoThat is not a map of US airspace, and I wonder very severely at your motivation for claiming that it is. That is a map of responsibility for air traffic control/flight information services. The US has a responsibility to provide those services across a huge region of the Pacific; probably because they're the only large country with presence in that region. They charge for these services for aircraft which are not otherwise subject to US taxes. The Atlantic is a little more interesting as it appears to cover the Bahamas; but one surmises that the majority of traffic in the region is nevertheless bound for the US East coast (note how it avoids Canada-Europe route sharply, and only protrudes into the Caribbean around PR).
- maratc 5y agoThis will likely have no consequences to the regime in Belarus, while increasing costs to these Baltic airlines. A policy that might achieve something would be if the Baltic states, together with Poland and Ukraine, would close their airspace to Belavia planes, until the detained passenger is delivered to his destination in Vilnius. This will increase costs to Belarusian airlines, which would be a problem to the regime.
- dekoruotas 5y agoThis has also been set in motion: https://i.redd.it/elts5rgbg0171.jpg https://i.redd.it/elts5rgbg0171.jpg
- motives 5y agoWorth noting that the EU has banned entire nations (such as Kazakhstan and others) from flying in EU airspace before for not meeting safety expectations. It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Aperocky 5y agoOnly the airlines, not the nation. You can fly from Kazakhstan on an European carrier to Europe. Europe previously have also banned shoddy Soviet era airliners that are both incredibly loud, toxic and quite unsafe, which is the right thing to do.
- motives 5y agoI feel this is a fairly pedantic correction, though of course you're very correct nonetheless. My opinion is that banning all of a nations major airlines from operating in your airspace is functionally equivalent to banning that nation. Belarus is much like Kazakhstan in that the vast majority of routes from its airports are by its national airlines. Most of the routes to the EU are flown by Belavia (Belarus' national airline) https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minsk-msq https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minsk-msq.
- throwaway4good 5y agoSounds like a good idea. Though this trick (of capturing a dissident by forcing a plane down) probably only works once.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- iso1631 5y agoBut Ryanair havent https://www.flightradar24.com/RYR7BJ/27cf72bf https://www.flightradar24.com/RYR7BJ/27cf72bf FR3340 flying from Pafos, Cyprus to Tallin, Estonia, is about to cross from Ukraine into Belarus airspace A route avoiding Belarus would have added at 56 miles to the 1740 mile journey, about 3%. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=pfo-tll,pfo-EPBP-tll http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=pfo-tll,pfo-EPBP-tll
- Thev00d00 5y agoRyanair would sell their own mother to get more profits
- cookguyruffles 5y agoAdding an extra 50 yards to any single Ryanair flight would likely bankrupt the company
- cblconfederate 5y agobuy the "No kidnapping" package for an extra cost of $169.99/person
- TeMPOraL 5y agoThere are companies that would insure you if you needed it, but I'm guessing this may not apply to a state-sanctioned kidnapping.
- proxysna 5y agoThis affects me directly since i am working outside of Belarus now and rely on air travel to visit my family, still this feels like the only reasonable answer to KGB messing with airlines. I am expecting that most planes to Belarus, from EU are going to be cancelled and people will have to reroute their travel through Moscow. In general it is terrifying how far my country went down the path of turning into another Turkmenistan\North Korea over the last 1 year+. Belarus was never a great example, of having fair courts ot great cops, but now it is just horrible. Half of my friends spent some time in jail, over the last year. Some were protesting actively, some wore clothing of "political colours" and were spotted by cops, some were arrested just because they were walking on the street and cops were in the mood to stir things up. Courts turned into a show where no matter how you were arrested or what was the basis for your arrest, you will get a fine and a few weeks (best case scenario - 15 days) in prison. Sadly, i feel that things are not going to get better anytime soon. tldr: Donbass and Belarus. Fly around if you wanna live.
- arodyginc 5y agotldr: don't mess with Lucashenko and then you can fly over there just fine
- proxysna 5y agoYeah sure, state funded terrorism does not affect you until it does
- golergka 5y agoI think that majority of HN readers, being from US and Europe, don't realise how many people from the shithole countries actually think like that and don't see anything wrong with this statement. And yes, I'm using the Trump's derogatory words here. I was born and still live in such a shithole country, and I'm incredibly angry and at it and this shithole mentality that shapes reality around me.
- user-the-name 5y agoSo today we are making excuses for authoritarians kidnapping opposition members, huh.
- paucharquesrius 5y agohi
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- erentz 5y agoIt’s odd to me that the Ryanair flight yesterday was already closer to its destination of Vilnius than Minsk when it turned around. Ryanair said that the crew had been "notified by Belarus (Air Traffic Control) of a potential security threat on board and were instructed to divert to the nearest airport, Minsk". So they didn’t have an incident onboard? There were no hijackers claiming to have a bomb? Just ATC telling them they have a bomb on board? And instead of landing at the nearest airport of Vilnius they turned to take a longer, more indirect route to a further away airport of Minsk? This would seem obviously suspicious to me. If you have a bomb on board, wouldn’t you want to go to the nearest airport, not the one further away? Wouldn’t you ask why you are being redirected further away? Then wouldn’t the response when you point out you’re closer to Vilnius and for safety want to land there make it clear to you something fishy was up? I would love to hear the radio communications and any communications back to Ryanair operations on this one.
- rraihansaputra 5y agoThat would be the normal procedure, but there is not much to do when the aircraft is pursued and escorted by fighter planes. Any country has jurisdiction over their airspace, including shooting down any non-compliant aircraft.
- csomar 5y agoThey sent a fighter jet. I don't think the pilot had much of a choice.
- toyg 5y agoYeah, this. No civil-aviation pilot is going to argue the fine points of law while in target range of an armed MiG.
- EvilEy3 5y agoWhy is this downvoted?
- ClumsyPilot 5y agoAi have serious doubts that they would date shoot down the plane, but obviously this is such a wild scenario for a normal pilot that they cannot be blamed for not turning it into a game of chicken
- clon 5y agoSeems Ryanair has not learned much though. PFO-->TLL RYR7BJ is traversing Batka's personal airspace as I write this comment.
- andrewshadura 5y agoPlease don't use the word batka to refer to Lukashenko. The word means father, and it was originally used to mock Belarusian for supposedly liking his approach to ruling the country. He's no father to any of us, and it's insulting to Belarusians to see someone referring to him this way.
- clon 5y agoYour comment is pertinent, so I won't change mine. Apologies. In my country the word is frequently used to carry sarcasm towards the role that Lukashenko believes himself to have. In other words, it is meant as sarcasm towards the tyrant's ego, not the gullibility of the nation.
- trhway 5y agoi think you are mistaken here. Bat'ka in this context is more like Bat'ka Mahno, ie. a leader outside of formal rules and leading more by personal power like a leader of a gang or a rebellion (or for example in Belarussian context - "Bat'ka Minay", a commander in WWII Belarussian guerilla resistance https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%BC%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%91%D0%B2,_%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9_%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87#%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%BC%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%91...). > it was originally used to mock Belarusian for supposedly liking his approach to ruling the country. not even close. It has always been used in the "leader" meaning described above. >He's no father to any of us, and it's insulting to Belarusians to see someone referring to him this way. as nobody uses it as "father" in this context it is hard to see your point.
- liaukovv 5y ago
- intricatedetail 5y agoNothing material is going happen as Germany needs that gas pipe. It's obvious from the news that this hijack was done together with Russia.
- redleader55 5y agoGermany insistence on closing nuclear power plants is doing Europe a lot of harm. It opens up one of the great powers of Europe to be controlled by Russia.
- NicoJuicy 5y agoIt's just making an option for energy cheaper. Russia needs it too, since they can't sell with profits internally. From my POV, it's just an additional option you get to sanction them with if they are acting in bad faith ( again) while getting cheaper options.
- intricatedetail 5y agoThat's akin to approving products made using forced labour because they are cheaper. I think international community needs to shut down this little German-Russia thing going on. If we can learn anything from the history, such alliance never ended well for the rest of Europe.
- aivisol 5y agoInternational community just lifted sanctions against this little thing: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57180674 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57180674
- KptMarchewa 5y agoThe only option it gives is to shut down gas for Ukraine while supplying their friends in Germany.
- xvilka 5y ago
- arpa 5y agoNo dictator is forever.
- upgrejd 5y agoNothing is forever.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sumedh 5y agoYes bit innocents are murdered during the dictator's regime.
- steve76 5y agoDictators defeat themselves with their inability to administer justice. As bad as some people are, they still have their day in court and get a chance to make their case. The law improves. People strengthen. Innocent get a chance. Next wrung up, the just defeat themselves because no one likes them. It's possible to be just and still make things nice. The top of the heap are the obscure. They live simple lives in paradise with very little effort. No one knows about them. Professional soldiers die first in conflict. Their flaws are the first to reveal. Everyone else looks inwards and fixes their flaws, asking what it is they have done to bring this on them. Those flaws get fixed, and the conflict ends. The purpose of action in conflict is to limit the violence on the return to a civil life of mutual respect. That's what it truly is. Some nations think one may call themselves a journalist and get to do whatever they want and laws don't apply to them. They may fuel race divisions, increase the murder rate, burn cities, corrupt institutions created for everyone's benefit, and working with their commie friends to kill millions with a bioweapon just to win an election. This is wrong. Freedom of speech means the powerful cannot speak perfectly. If they could, we would all be perfect and have no need for them. Since they can misspeak, they can't punish anyone else for their speech. Don't deal with animals. There's no talking to them. If there was, vets would prescribe bed rest.
- aSimplePlanner 5y agohttps://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/belarusian-president-claims-imf-world-bank-offered-him-a-bribe-to-impose-covid-restrictions/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/bel...
- ShamoBerserk 5y agohttps://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/belarusian-president-claims-imf-world-bank-offered-him-a-bribe-to-impose-covid-restrictions/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/bel...
- egao1980 5y agoOn 21st of October 2016 Ukraine did the same to Belavia flight, including fighter jet etc. I haven't heard of any international uproar or calls to ban Ukrainian air companies / avoid airspace.
- morsch 5y agohttps://www.rt.com/news/363763-ukraine-belavia-antimaidan-plane/ https://www.rt.com/news/363763-ukraine-belavia-antimaidan-pl... A pertinent difference is that the plane started out in Ukraine and was compelled to return. Still, this seems quite unusual.
- dandanua 5y agoLie, it's far from "the same". The flight started from Kyiv and still was in the Ukrainian airspace.
- eviac 5y agohttps://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208&opt=0 https://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208&opt=0
- tuyguntn 5y agowe ended up in such situation because there are usually no consequences of governments doing bad to their citizens. UN is a joke. All sanctions are applied only against Russia, but for any other case/country what governments are usually doing are cheap words: "condemning/concerned/we are deeply ..." that's all. There is no consensus inside UN on what is good and what is bad for people, countries have veto rights, which shouldn't exist if there were clear guidelines on what is allowed and what is not. Please show us some real actions and make authoritarian regimes feel pain for doing harm. Shutdown all the incoming and outgoing flights to/from Belarus, including transits and goods.
- standardUser 5y agoIf the UN were used in the way you are suggesting, the UN wouldn't exist.
- tuyguntn 5y agohttps://www.un.org/un70/en/content/history/index.html https://www.un.org/un70/en/content/history/index.html > The United Nations is an international organization founded in 1945 after the Second World War by 51 countries committed to maintaining international peace and security, developing friendly relations among nations and promoting social progress, better living standards and human rights. If UN is committed to do something good for having better living standards and human rights, then they must keep their promise and try to do something, otherwise just stop pretending being someone you are not and shutdown this organization. I think we have passed the point in human history where local/national interests were above any other interests, now we should think about interests of humans. Be it Russian, Belarus, Palestinian, Israeli, Uighur, Armenian, black or white and so on, if human rights are violated, action should be taken and there must be a consequence for violating it, not only words thrown. US shouldn't have veto rights when rights of humans are violated, be it your best friend Israel or Saudi Arabia.
- toyg 5y agoYou can think what you want, but the reality is that the majority of the world still lives in poverty and ignorance, with all that it entails (and even the well-educated are not exactly guaranteed to have the same priorities as you, e.g. Israel). If you go around invading every human-right-violatin' piece of land, very soon you won't have an army. The UN has its issues, like the League of Nations before that, but it's still a place where the world tries to communicate and (occasionally) solve (some) problems. It has lasted longer than the LoN precisely because it has not taken the "activist" bent of its predecessor. It cannot solve everything, maybe even anything, but it's still better to have such an assembly than not having it. If anything, it provides some legitimacy to humanitarian efforts, when enough countries in the Security Council agree on a deployment.
- throwawayhay 5y agoThe very sad thing is that there’s a lot of firms in Silicon Valley that do a lot of business with Belarus, totally ignoring the monstrosities of Lukashenko. Mapbox for example, sources a considerable amount of its workforce from Minsk, and they’re little better than slaves because they can’t quit or complain or they’ll be sent to the mines. We sit here and say that this kind of behavior is villainous, but we happily do business with those who profit off of the suffering of others. For shame.
- proxysna 5y ago> or they’ll be sent to the mines. Are you sure? Any sources? That sounds like bs to me. While IT job market is shrinking, even if ppl quit there is still a large pool of jobs in pretty much any direction.
- newsbinator 5y ago> they can’t quit or complain or they’ll be sent to the mines Working in IT in Belarus is highly coveted, highly cushy (often 4-day work-weeks, company retreats, WFH, etc), and pays 5x ~ 10x average salary (i.e. you become moderately rich, very fast). If you don't like working for one IT company, you can switch to another one. Some are US-standard crappy Wordpress mills or whatever, but if you're working in IT you're not oppressed and you're not lucky: you're a person with skills that are in-demand and you're getting well compensated for using them.
- sunstone 5y agoEuropean countries should now close their air space to any flights in or out of Belarus until this guy is surrendered in good health.
- joiewjf 5y agoBut Germans love dictators!!! They will never introduce sanctions against any of them.
- abc789654567 5y agoI can predict exactly what European countries will do in response to this horrible atrocity. They will express the deepest of all possible concerns. That's all they'll do. In fact that's all they can do. They simply don't have any other alternative.
- belter 5y agoRyanair pilots just made a statement. It looks like it was not that bad: https://twitter.com/Trexorman/status/1396775300650917888/photo/1 https://twitter.com/Trexorman/status/1396775300650917888/pho...
- joiewjf 5y agoGermans: Netherland and Ireland must raise taxes, because it hits German businesses if your taxes are too low!! Also Germans: North Stream 2 should not concern other countries. It is our internal business. So, Germans thinks that they can push their agenda to other countries, but no other country can do the same to Germany? Double standards and very arrogant.
- usr1106 5y agoWhat hasn't been mentioned at all is that Belavia/Minsk is a major corona restriction loophole. Last year they massively expanded their traffic to transport people via Minsk if more direct flights were not available. Obiviously money was more important than public safety . Lukashenka has stated that Wodka helps against Covid-19. Whether that still holds this year I don't know. I have not studied flight schedules for a while. If yes forbidding Belavia to land in EU countries might have an even bigger effect than usual.
- timka 5y agoWhy do HN readers justify what US did to get Snowden? Hope you justify as well what they did to get Soleimani.