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Out of control San Francisco shoplifting forcing Walgreens to close 17 stores
- pyuser583 5y agoThese Walgreens are pharmacies where many homeless get their medications. I’ve seen people in the middle of a mental health episode wander in, and a security calmly “manage” them until the pharmacist can figure out and fill their prescription. These are literally medical facilities being shut down - facilities that serve those most in need. If 17 reproductive health clinics shot down, the feminists would be up in arms. If 17 HIV clinics shut down, gay rights activist would be up in arms. These pharmacies provide birth control, plan b, HIV medication, etc. Not to mention COVID vaccines … This is a crisis, not an inconvenience.
- bradgranath 5y agono joke
- CreepGin 5y ago> If 17 reproductive health clinics shot down, the feminists would be up in arms. If 17 HIV clinics shut down, gay rights activist would be up in arms. These pharmacies provide birth control, plan b, HIV medication, etc. Hmm while I agree with you this is a crisis, but to directly relate feminists to birth control and gays to HIV treatment will raise some eyebrows.
- baggy_trough 5y agoWhy would that be?
- hedora 5y agoI guess anything will raise someone’s eyebrows these days, but there’s a long history of those groups supporting those specific causes. To pretend it never happened is to deny credit where credit is due. https://outofthecloset.org/ https://outofthecloset.org/ https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-southern-new-england/newsroom/gloria-steinem-trailblazing-feminist-icon-speaks-at-annual-planned-parenthood-of-southern-new-england-event https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-souther...
- pyuser583 5y agoThe connection to feminists and access to birth control is well established. Regarding my comment about gay rights groups and HIV, I was specifically thinking of ACT UP: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACT_UP https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACT_UP
- bradgranath 5y agoDid seriously no one watch Disney's 1992 Aladdin? "Streetrats" get just as hungry as everyone else. If these outfits spent half the money that they do on security on feeding and clothing their neighbors, we wouldn't be in this mess, but shareholders don't appreciate altruism for it's own sake.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoFrom the actual article: > Retailers attributed a majority of losses to professional thieves instead of opportunistic shoplifters who may be driven by poverty, with one CVS leader calling San Francisco a hub of organized retail crime.
- gnicholas 5y agoIt's actually a bit nuanced — most of the incidents are opportunists, but most of the lost value is due to professionals. Basically, the pros take expensive stuff (presumably for resale) and opportunists take stuff they will use personally (and which might not be worth that much). > Although the majority of CVS shoplifting incidents in the city are by opportunists, Dugan said, professional crime accounts for 85% of the company’s dollar losses.
- esyir 5y agoBasically, all the people talking about its just the downtrodden trying to get by are trying to score political points, when the core issue is that the repeat criminals are not) insufficiently disincentivized. 15 percent might be a sizable sum, but its clearly not the core problem here.
- Grakel 5y agoFeeding the wildlife is bad for the park and bad for the animals.
- dahfizz 5y agoI just don't understand why anyone would choose to live in California. Between the astronomical rent, out of control homelessness, out of control crime, out of control wildfires... It just doesn't make sense. Now everyone is fleeing CA for TX, and voting for the same policies that ruined CA.
- raunak 5y agoCan anyone provide numbers/some data for both the points in this overly generalized comment? I’m genuinely interested to know if everyone is fleeing for TX, and if they’re fleeing b/c of the aforementioned reasons, and most importantly if they _are_ voting for the same policies that ruined CA.
- xpe 5y agoThis comment is exaggerated and motivated by one’s political philosophy.
- greesil 5y agoGuaranteed to start a fight. Awesome. Please try not to generalize about an ENTIRE state from one article.
- e67f70028a46fba 5y ago“Democracy is the theory that the people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard” -hL Mencken
- steve76 5y agoI really don't think shoplifters wake up early. Please don't abandon basic human rights, recognized since the 17th century, just because you can't wake up early. Somehow, people today think being a victim is okay, even worthy of merit. They also think laws, self-control, idealism, action, and self-determination are fake and worthy of contempt. Barbarity and animalism won the popularity contest over humanitarian virtue and effortless paradise. In their wake is a toxic wasteland. Here's an idea. Punish the victims. It's not okay for you to be a victim. No. You don't get it. It's NOT okay for YOU to be a victim. You are sentenced as a nuisance business. The crime goes away. The surrounding property values go up. Or your overseas principle investors wake up to the news that their fingerprints are on the rifle that shot Xi Jing Ping, Putin, African warlords, landless pirates, narco leaders. Take your pick. One problem with an evil lawless world is there's no shortage of enemies to set up petty manipulative profiteers.
- jmcgough 5y agoThere was a walgreens in downtown oakland that was smashed during the BLM protests. They decided to just never open up again, because theft had cut into their margins so much.
- wwarner 5y agoNot that stealing is ok, but the solution to this problem in the long run is jobs -- lots and lots of green jobs. When you stop moralizing and step back from the situation, you see cost of living skyrocketing and the job market hollowing out from the bottom, and it seems obvious to me that the people on the lowest rungs of the ladder are just falling off and hitting the pavement. We're seeing the effects more and more people with years and years of no income and no prospects. The solution is building a ferocious economic engine that employs people, wants their contributions and cultivates their talents. If jobs were easy to get, like so easy that you could just walk over to the employment center and be working within the day, I just have to believe that this kind of anti-social behavior would quickly get back to normal.
- dcolkitt 5y agoJust prior to Covid, the unemployment rate in San Francisco was 2.1%. About the lowest unemployment rate recorded in any industrialized economy ever in history. In 2019, there was clearly no shortage of jobs, yet the petty crime wave in SF was still out of control.
- arpowers 5y agoYou clearly haven't been to SF.
- notsureaboutpg 5y agoWhat's your jobs plan where anyone with 0 qualifications (and possibly many disqualifications) can get a $25/hr job?
- refurb 5y agoIs it just be or are we just repeating the cycle of big cities? - City expands, lots of jobs, people move there - City is mismanaged, middle class flee, city gets worse - City stagnates for a while and either dies or makes a comeback - Rinse and repeat
- devmunchies 5y agomaybe in a western democracy. wouldn't fly in the wild-west where the store owner would shoot you or in a fascist state where the police will.
- crowf 5y agowell what do you expect? for the city to be eternal? eventually, for whatever reason, a city will fall.
- me_me_me 5y agoThere are cities in europe that are around 1000 years old, maybe it there is a reason cities are dying now.
- mbrodersen 5y agoThere are European cities have been around for a long time without experiencing those cycles. So clearly it is not inevitably.
- Jun8 5y agoHere’s the SFPD crime dashboard: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... where you can compare which crimes have gone up
- seizethecheese 5y agoThe point is that the crime isn’t even being written up by police.
- refurb 5y agoOr reported by victims. Plenty of people get windows smashed on their car, get them fixed and never report it.
- ku-man 5y ago"San Francisco Deputy Public Defender Doug Welch called in to the hearing to say his clients charged with shoplifting are not part of organized crime, but are homeless or struggling with substance abuse and need more services." As if is not stealing if you are a druggie or homeless.
- void_mint 5y agoThe purpose of that statement was to point out that it's not like it's hardened criminals stealing novelty items, but homeless and struggling individuals needing basic necessities. But sure, you're welcome to be as cynical as you'd like.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y agoWhat are the conditions of sf's homeless shelters? How easy is it for a homeless person to get a square meal or shelter through legal means? Being homeless or poor is only an excuse for stealing if you cannot reasonably get your basic needs met in a legal way.
- void_mint 5y ago> What are the conditions of sf's homeless shelters? I don't live in SF, but homeless shelters are oftentimes disgusting and terrible places. I don't blame anyone that doesn't want to stay in them if they can figure out other accommodations. Nonreligious based shelters sometimes provide very little in terms of hygiene/necessities/food, sometimes basically nothing other than a small cot or gym mat (aka no food, no shower, etc). Religious shelters often require religious involvement. Forced praying as an example. There is also the issue of frequent abuse/sexual assault in homeless shelters. > Being homeless or poor is only an excuse for stealing if you cannot reasonably get your basic needs met in a legal way. I don't really think shoplifting food to survive is an "excuse". Again, they're not stealing CD players.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
- dmitrygr 5y agoA worthwhile read about the current SF DA that might explain a lot: https://stanfordreview.org/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-crime/ https://stanfordreview.org/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-crime/
- tootie 5y agoCash bail repeal has been done in a lot of jurisdictions and it's a favorite target of conservatives as a "soft on crime" policy but really is just basic fairness. Bail is only intended to insure that defendants appear for trial. The underlying crimes are never supposed to be a consideration. Until the trial happens no guilt can be assigned and confinement is unconstitutional.
- dmitrygr 5y agoI wonder if you'd feel that same if someone who attempted to murder you got out with no bail, and got a second chance to get you. After all, they were not yet CONVICTED of anything, right?
- happytoexplain 5y agoMaybe this guy is genuinely the devil, but this article starts off with some pretty blatant political name-calling that makes it hard to believe it's delivered without skew or omission.
- pyuser583 5y agoPart of the issue is that these sorts of policies have been around for a long time. A while ago drug courts were popular. Then someone realized that in order for drug courts to work, you have to charge people with drug offenses. So they stopped sling drug courts. It’s dumb.
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- aosmith 5y agoThis happened on a daily basis at their mid market location. Saw it so many times on my way to work.
- annexrichmond 5y agoI used to live near Market/Van Ness. Pre pandemic when I needed to pick up medicine I had to go to two Walgreens before walking another mile to end up at CVS to find what I needed because half the shelves were empty at both the Walgreens I went to (one oh Market, the other in Hayes). I asked an employee what was going on, I thought they must be closing. She said no it’s because of all the shoplifting and that there’s nothing they can do about it and the police don’t care either. As she was telling me this I witnessed a guy in the aisle loading up a suitcase. Unbelievable. I told her I’m sorry she has to deal with this all the time. It’s also frustrating as a consumer because I’ve noticed over the past couple years Walgreens’ hours has been reducing, like closing at 7pm at a major intersection for crying out loud. The trend is that operating expenses are increased due to shoplifting thus prices increase and hours reduced which means fewer jobs. We all lose. This isn’t unique to Walgreens this is affecting independent convenience stores and markets as well and it’s really disheartening to witness on a nearly day to day basis.
- tdeck 5y agoI can't help but wonder if this is one of the ways the police "get back" at our local DA (whom they obviously don't like). If the police simply refuse to respond to crimes, they can then blame the increased crime rate on the DA.
- dkasper 5y agoIt's not exactly getting back. If the DA isn't going to do anything why would you arrest someone?
- jasonwatkinspdx 5y agoI can't speak to SF, but this is exactly the dynamic that's been happening for years up here in Portland. The PPA tells officers to slow roll on crimes that create political pressure every time a candidate for mayor or council that will reform them appears viable. Sadly it's a very effective tactic.
- kayfox 5y ago
- andyxor 5y agorecall the DA, Chesa Boudin https://recallchesaboudin.org/ https://recallchesaboudin.org/ their "restorative justice" policy is sending criminals back to the streets as soon as they're arrested https://www.zenger.news/2021/02/16/jogger-killed-by-repeat-offender-in-stolen-vehicle/ https://www.zenger.news/2021/02/16/jogger-killed-by-repeat-o...
- walrus01 5y agoIf you've ever visited a small grocery/convenience/pharmacy type store in a developing nation environment where law enforcement is almost nonexistant, the standard system is that there's a counter and you have to ask the staff for each item. Customers are not allowed in the area where the stock is kept.
- gnicholas 5y agoIn the US, it's not uncommon for certain items, especially small, high-value items, to be kept in locked glasses cases. Customers have to get an employee to unlock the cabinet to purchase those items. And in places like Costco, if you want to buy a gift card you bring a cardboard token from the aisle up to the register. They ring you up and instruct you to take your receipt to a special room where they fetch the real gift cards after verifying your receipt.
- valleyer 5y agoI've always wondered: what's the point of the gift card system at Costco? Don't most stores solve this nicely by making the gift cards valueless until "activated" by the cash register system?
- gnicholas 5y agoThat is how most grocery stores do it, but Costco offers GCs to local restaurants that I've never seen elsewhere (Armadillo Willy's!). It's quite possible that the GCs from these restaurants are not capable of being secured/activated in this way. Or it could just be that they want to have a big display with cardboard logos that will catch the attention of shoppers.
- walrus01 5y agocostco also does this with lots of higher value things, like a gopro or a laptop, if you want to buy it you take the cardboard tag to the checkout and then they give it to you after payment.
- boulos 5y ago
- lupire 5y ago> A statement from Safeway read at Thursday’s hearing blamed Proposition 47, which lowered penalties for thefts under $950, for “dramatic increases” in shoplifting losses. $950 seems extremely high as the threshold for punishment (especially considering many crimes won't be caught and prosecuted), but also how can you shoplift $950 worth of stuff at a Walgreens?
- post_break 5y agoPrinter ink if it’s left out maybe? A few red bull cans.
- easton 5y agoPrinter ink in those quantities is probably only useful to businesses who don't really want to buy stolen printer ink (especially considering Walgreens is probably carrying genuine supplies when you can get 50% cheaper generic). Plan B is expensive, maybe that would work (I don't know if it's always locked up).
- sunshineforever 5y agoYou can resell the items on ebay and Amazon. I used to know independent stores that would purchase merchandise to stock the shelves with too. It doesn't necessary have to be fenced via a criminal org. A certain pocket sized paint tube from hobby lobby sells on Amazon for 10$. Criminals who are above the level of drug user/shoplifter, like a dealer, for example, can and do have to time to set up shops and sell online. Its all part of the larger hustle. If it makes money, they do it. Traditional economics and game theory all apply, its not following the law that differentiates the criminal.
- aeternum 5y agoI don't think the limit matters much. There was an SF crime ring that was designed to operate just under the limit. Have each person steal $900 worth of concentrated laundry detergent, razors, otc medicine. Setting the penalty threshold at $400 would only require more trips. They had an entire warehouse full of product: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/10/06/major-san-francisco-bay-area-retail-theft-ring-busted-five-suspects-arrested-8-million-in-stolen-merchandise-recovered/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/10/06/major-san-franc...
- Tiktaalik 5y agoUnsurprising outcome of systemic poverty and a complete lack of real social safety net. People want the homeless to simply go away and die quietly somewhere, but no, people need to survive, and if need be petty theft is the way to continue living. People need food and people need to fed their chemical addictions. With the lack of services theft is an answer. If people don't want to experience petty theft well then we need to ensure that every person has food and housing. Create a safe supply of free prescribed drugs so that people don't need to steal to get cash to buy drugs from the street. These are simple solutions but of course they cost money, so if your top priority is keeping taxes low, well they're impossible and so the status quo of systemic poverty, misery and crime continues.
- disposekinetics 5y agoCalifornia is anything but a low tax place to live, but they also have tons and tons of property crime.
- rangoon626 5y agoNo, it’s an unsurprising outcome of a dysfunctional economy. Social safety nets won’t do anything. They never did. Cabrini Greene. Pruitt Igoe. War on poverty. Decades of all of that AND MORE, and what is the result? Even more in poverty. Give people a chance to work, build and grow, and find meaning in their lives, and the rest of these problems fix themselves. Unfortunately the oligarchs and plutocrats that run SF and the US at large have and continue to hollow out the lower and middle class way of life. WAKE UP!!!
- dahfizz 5y agoI don't understand how this can be your position when CA has both some of the highest taxes and best social safety net in the country, but also some of the worst homelessness and crime in the country.
- devoutsalsa 5y agoIt's super easy to end up homeless in CA. Just run out of money. Source: I ran out of money in CA in 2009, ended up homeless.
- leptoniscool 5y agoProtecting property is a basic duty of government, clearly it failed.
- foofoo4u 5y agoA quick search on YouTube shows this is no joke. [Shoplifters Steal from Walgreens in San Francisco Unimpeded.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLbvtRIo3i8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLbvtRIo3i8) [Customer Seen Jumping Over Counter to Shoplift at Walgreens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FmN4e1fNUo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FmN4e1fNUo) [Sting Operation Busts Professional Theft Ring With Millions In Stolen Merchandise](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8iKPRYfugA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8iKPRYfugA) It's becoming clearer by the day how bad policies and lack law of enforcement is degrading the Bay Area and is driving people away in droves.
- throwaway21531 5y agoCompanies leave due to crime, they're underserving the locals. They come back in, they're displacing the locals. It's a lose/lose and always racist. I can't blame them for leaving and not returning. It's probably more trouble than what it's worth. They probably have high turnover at those places too due to the added stress of so much crime happening at your place of employment.