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Statement: AP 'horrified' by Israeli attack on its office
- gargarplex 5y agoThe same office shared by Hamas military intelligence. https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1393565656621137920?s=20 https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1393565656621137920?s=20
- bigth 5y agoHamas is the locally elected government. Gaza not allowed to have any military to defend themselves? Isreal free to inflict as much collateral damage as they want upon anyone, but anyone else following the same rules is a terrorist?
- BurningFrog 5y agoThere has never been elections in Gaza. Hamas runs a brutal dictatorship. Fatah won elections in the West Bank in 2006, and has not allowed any elections since.
- Mediterraneo10 5y agoWhile there remains some Arab support for informal, low-level violence directed towards Israel, ever since Black September etc. the Palestinians not being able to have a formal military to defend themselves is what all their neighbours can agree on, not just Israel.
- marvin 5y agoI'm not going to participate in what is bound to be a flamewar on this topic, so I'll probably just contribute with this single comment. Hamas won the election in 2006, and no elections have been held since. While sort of democratically elected and likely still the majority party, Hamas has recently launched hundreds of rockets targeting the civilian population of Israel. This is unquestionably an act of government-run terrorism. It's not the first time - this is doctrine. It's very hard to make sense of news reports on this conflict, as propaganda is bound to be rampant on both sides. I've read plenty of news reports over the years stating that Hamas doctrine is to use civilian infrastructure for their operations. Meaning hospitals, civilian residences and most recently, press buildings. And also that Hamas intimidates journalists not to report such operations in any degree of detail. Israeli doctrine, on the other hand, is to give advance warning but systematically attack Hamas fighters that operate out of such locations. It would be unsurprising if a military force uses lies and deception to achieve their objectives. It's impossible to be confident that reports are honest. Was this an attack on Hamas targets using a press building as a human shield, as the IDF states, or was it simply a pretext to destroy the press headquarters in Gaza? No journalists are reported to have been killed in the attack, as far as I can tell. I would wager that this was actually an attack on Hamas fighters or assets, but there's little evidence. I could be wrong. Regardless, I would welcome a discussion that gives some serious thought to how to defend oneself against an adversary that operates like this. Meaning, deliberately attacking the civilian population and then using civilians and civilian infrastructure as human shields during the response.
- skinkestek 5y ago> Gaza not allowed to have any military to defend themselves? They are absolutely allowed to have a military I think. Edit: At least for all intents and purposes they do have one when they can coordinate large rocket attacks and do have numerous anti tank teams. They are however not using it to defend thenselves but to poke "pointed sticks" into their neighbor in the hope that te neighbor will do something that the media will make a story of. And, since it is military the neighbor is also allowed to bomb it when they are fed up with having shot rockets at their civilians. Edit2: > Isreal free to inflict as much collateral damage as they want upon anyone, but anyone else following the same rules is a terrorist? If Israeli military was hiding among civilians and Hamas precision strikes hurt civilians despite Hamas calling them up an hour in advance I wouldn't blame Hamas either. That is some of the difference.
- Denvercoder9 5y agoAccording to Israel.
- Context_free 5y agoThe CIA had offices at 7 World Trade Center. By the logic of that tweet, the CIA was hiding behind and deliberately using the civilians working in the WTC complex as human shields to hide from the Saudi 9/11 militants looking to remove US military bases from Saudi Arabia.
- hluska 5y agoGeez, by that logic some collateral civilian damage is acceptable if it gives a nation grounds to attack someone they’ve always wanted to get rid of??? I must have put on my tinfoil hat this morning. Sorry!! :)
- duxup 5y agoI really don't want to go down the endless list of comparisons but I don't think anyone warned the civilians in the world trade center just before it was hit. But in the case of the AP office: "We received a warning that the building would be hit. " And I think civilian casualties was was intended goal of the World Trade Center attack.... It's a bad comparison IMO.
- Context_free 5y agoI could give other examples, but if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's 1993 WTC bombing was not enough of a warning that that complex was a target, I don't know what would be. Mohammed succeeded on his second try. John P. O'Neill of the FBI headed that investigation and he left the FBI and was head of WTC security on the day of the attack. He told people he thought he expected another attempt.
- detaro 5y agoThe WTC was targeted for being the WTC, not for having a CIA office in it.
- chroma 5y agoIf al-qaeda had: - warned everyone before blowing up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon so they’d have time to evacuate - not hijacked civilian airliners and murdered the pilots - not killed everyone on board the planes by deliberately crashing them …then yes that would be a valid comparison. It would also cause me to have a much more nuanced opinion of al-qaeda.
- newacct583 5y agoSeems not unlikely, though the IDF has been caught in lies like this in the past. Still, blowing up civilian assets deliberately to get at nearby targets is supposed to be a war crime. There's like a whole treaty about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention Now, sure, I know the reply will be that Hamas also violates the Geneva convention routinely. And then everyone will dive in to scream about how the other side did it first. And nothing will get better, because the sad truth is that Hamas, the IDF and the right wing Israeli coalition are in effect allies in a coordinated struggle against moderates on both sides who'd (amazing, I know) prefer not blowing people up. Politics on the Paletstinian side are harder to analyze, but for sure Likud needs an active Hamas adversary to stay in power. They're barely hanging on every election.
- JoeyBananas 5y agoRealistically there is no such thing as a war without the destruction of civilian assets. What do you suggest Israel should do if Hamas is firing rockets at them from within a city? There are a lot of people who do want to blow each other up and that's just life
- newacct583 5y ago> There are a lot of people who do want to blow each other up and that's just life Right, but the notable intersection with US policy for non-Israeli folks like me is that the responds then becomes: maybe we should stop buying them bombs to do it with. As I mentioned, right now the people with the bombs on both sides of that border have a very clear built-in incentive to use them. Take the incentive away and let's see what happens.
- himinlomax 5y ago> Realistically there is no such thing as a war without the destruction of civilian assets What are those treaties for?
- gizmo 5y agoNo evidence was provided for that claim, and I don't think it's a coincidence they decided to blow up a building that had the offices of journalists critical of Israeli foreign policy.
- Thristle 5y agodo countries release evidence for every building they bomb?
- Afforess 5y agoThe IDF is a state sponsored terrorist organization, we should not take the word of terrorists seriously. https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1392197029355470848 https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1392197029355470848 > Our goal is only to strike terror.
- totalZero 5y agoIt seems unwise to take the word of a combatant army at face value. That's part of the rationale for listening to journalists.
- sp332 5y agoThis article and the linked article with more details don't mention the name: it was Jala Tower. It also had residential apartments in it, which this statement doesn't mention either.
- catbuttes 5y ago> The world will know less about what is happening in Gaza because of what happened today. I get the impression this was part of the intention...
- Black101 5y agoThey were still streaming live right after the building blew up... it doesn't take much equipment to do it nowadays... here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-upyPouRrB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-upyPouRrB8
- boublepop 5y agoThey don’t mean because of material damage, it is due to the clear signal sent that Israel is willing to use military action against the media. obviously this is going to reduce the coverage as not all journalists are willing to risk their lives to cover a story.
- Black101 5y ago> They don’t mean because of material damage, I think he did in that case, but of course it causes psychological damages among other things....
- booblik 5y agoYou can report news from everywhere without a 14 story building ... Do they have offices in every single city in the world?
- totalZero 5y agoThey weren't the only media organization in the building, and I presume they do indeed have offices in cities where major news repeatedly breaks. There's an undercurrent in your comment of blaming AP for having a presence in Gaza, yet this was not an accidental strike. AP says that Israel gave them advance warning of the attack. https://apnews.com/article/media-israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-fe452147166f55ba5a9d32e6ba8b53d7 https://apnews.com/article/media-israel-middle-east-business...
- bob_theslob646 5y agoSomeone please educate me: What is the significance of this? Why would Israel bomb this building and tell people to evacuate? I'm not familiar. Is it normal for them to announce evacuation?
- bigth 5y agoThey have to pretend to have some humanitarian concerns. As for why they did it, the notice pretty much sums it up. To prevent media coverage. They also bomb schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings because a member of the locally elected government might have stopped by one time five years ago.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- MattGaiser 5y agoPeople can leave in an hour. Equipment cannot, or at least not all equipment.
- carmen67 5y agoIt is standard operating procedure for Hamas to operate communication, command and control centers inside tall residential buildings. For example to synchronize 100 rocket launches to overwhelm iron done protection. Since 500+ missiles are still being launched daily at Israeli civilian cities, Israel is slowly but methodically destroying any means necessary to launch those missiles.
- totalZero 5y agoYou made an account just to describe Hamas SOP, with no citations nor credentials. This is your first and only comment on HN. Seems fishy.
- SpicyLemonZest 5y agoIt's common for them to announce evacuation, yeah. The government in Gaza has been firing rockets at Israel for the past few days; Israel says that this attack is a direct military response to the rockets, although (as you can see upthread) others dispute that story.
- gizmo 5y agoIf the United States wanted to bring this conflict to an end this would be the perfect pretext to use, because the AP is an American non-profit and it's easy to argue that Israel crossed a line with this completely unprovoked attack on a noble American institution. Of course in truth blowing up a building isn't a big crime compared to the killing of innocent Palestinians, including children, the narrative is what really matters. And I hope this attack is used to put pressure on Israel to stop their attacks.
- AndrewBissell 5y agoThere have been recent reports that Iran and Saudi Arabia are in talks. It's more likely that the U.S. wants the conflict to escalate to try and draw Iran into intervening and drive a wedge with SA.
- encryptluks2 5y agoYou'd think, but Joe Biden is a self-proclaimed Zionist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2zto3UmNIE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2zto3UmNIE
- MattGaiser 5y agoI suspect that something else was co-located in the building and AP was just there. So the USA would also need to agree that the co-located thing was not a target.
- JoeyBananas 5y agoThey're not perfect but Israel is a lot more ethical than Hamas. They definitely don't deserve the label of "baby killers." Look at this situation of the past week: Hamas is fires unguided rockets at Israel. Israel intercepts them with the Iron Dome. Israel retaliates with precision strikes after giving warnings to reduce casualties. In the case of the AP building, nobody died. How is Israel the baby killer here?
- Life_exe 5y ago> Look at this situation of the past week: Hamas is fires unguided rockets ... Time of reference is important! It significantly alters the perception. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeZ4yXyzUG0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeZ4yXyzUG0
- space_rock 5y agoSo they were asked to evacuate before the destruction of the building and no loss of life
- Afforess 5y agoIs this acceptable to you? I can burn down your home if I fill out the paperwork and warn you in advance?
- Fordec 5y agoSo did the IRA back in the day. They were still terrorists, regardless of if they phoned it in beforehand.
- enriquto 5y agoI'm pretty much aligned with the Israeli side on almost everything, and I 100% agree with Israel's right to defend itself. But this argument of "we announced the bombing of that building in advance" is utter bullshit. By the same logic, Hamas also warned before launching the rockets, does that make it any less wrong?
- tguvot 5y agoThere is some difference between precision bombing of a single building after advance warning was given to those who reside inside and indiscriminate shooting of MLRS like systems into civilian area after saying "we will shoot rockets into Tel Aviv"
- moogly 5y agoWhy is this flagged.
- DanAtC 5y agoEvery posting on this has been flagged. JIDF lives on
- TakawaraJu 5y agoWhat does the J stand for?
- EarthIsHome 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Internet_Defense_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Internet_Defense_Force
- jules-jules 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL
- ConcernedCoder 5y agoI suspect that "The world will know less about what is happening in Gaza because of what happened today." was the entire point of the attack...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- orisho 5y ago-
- williamtwild 5y agoAll the Isrealies need to do for lasting peace is stop forcing families out of thieir homes. Its unfortunate the world does not pressure them to do so.
- orisho 5y ago-
- Hallucinaut 5y agoAssociated Press fired these rockets?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- throwawayxyz_ 5y agoI've read that there was a Supreme Court case on these properties and Jews held the land title since the Ottoman Empire days. Although the case was not as clear cut as what that sentence implies, it wasn't nearly "forcing families out of their homes". It was more (if we're to believe the reports) "forcing people out of homes that they didn't own, after they stopped paying rent which they agreed to pay".
- tguvot 5y agoHere you go, the case details: https://www.jns.org/sheikh-jarrah-a-legal-background/ https://www.jns.org/sheikh-jarrah-a-legal-background/
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- bufferout 5y agoIn simple terms, this is a situation where you have two sides full of people willing to launch missiles at children. Until that dynamic changes, this is never getting resolved.
- boublepop 5y agoThe “both sides” argument is getting old. Imagine Nazis arguing during the Holocaust arguing that Jewish “terrorists” were also killing Nazis and that both sides were in the wrong, and nothing could really be done until the Jewish people stopped fighting their oppressors.
- bufferout 5y agoI'm not sure how analogous a holocaust is in this case. Fact remains: both sides are willing to kill children in order to advance their cause.
- yehosef 5y agofor a different slant - https://honestreporting.com/ap-al-jazeera-cry-foul-after-setting-up-shop-in-alleged-hamas-military-site-destroyed-by-idf https://honestreporting.com/ap-al-jazeera-cry-foul-after-set...
- threesmegiste 5y agoIsrael is the only country in the world bought with money. so they don't know what it means to use disproportionate force. however, they have suffered the greatest pain in the world in the past. Most of all, they should understand how great pain and death hurt.