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This looks like a pump and dump scheme in its finest form. Nothing changed over last year in regards to energy consumption. There's no way that Elon or those in
by notyourwork 5y ago
This looks like a pump and dump scheme in its finest form. Nothing changed over last year in regards to energy consumption. There's no way that Elon or those in Tesla discussing this were not aware of this prior.
- paulpauper 5y agobut in a pump and dump scheme the dump is the result of the orginal pumpers selling, not from the pumpers wanting to make the stock go down. It is in the interests of the pumpers to keep the stock price inflated as long as possible.
- ASalazarMX 5y agoPump and deflate? That evil Elon is at it again.
- 988747 5y agoOk, so what if Elon decided that Tesla's current Bitcoin holdings are too small, and is looking to depress price to buy even more BTC?
- slg 5y agoHow is this a pump and dump? They never dumped. It is certainly stupidity from Musk, but I don't know why you are implying maliciousness when they are still holding Bitcoin and therefore they are equally hurt by this drop in value.
- phire 5y agoTesla might not have dumped. But I'd be very interested to see Musk's personal trading accounts, and the trading accounts of his close associates.
- novaRom 5y agoThis is why SEC department exists: sec.gov Musk should be investigated, this is not the first time his actions lead to massive market perturbations.
- seunosewa 5y agoI bet he is already being investigated. It is highly unlikely that regulators haven't noticed what he is up to.
- slg 5y agoIt is incredibly hard to imagine that the upside in Musk's personal Bitcoin stake, whatever it is, is anywhere close to approaching his personal stake in Tesla. Something like 70% of his net worth is Tesla stock. It would be unbelievably stupid to jeopardize the value of the Tesla stock to pump up the value of his Bitcoin holdings. Some of these anti-Musk conspiracy theories are truly crazy especially considering the man is so out there that you don't even need to fabricate weird theories like this to make him look bad.
- capableweb 5y ago> It is incredibly hard to image that the upside in Musk's personal Bitcoin stake, whatever it is, is anywhere close to approaching his personal stake in Tesla. Something like 70% of his net worth is Tesla stock. It would be unbelievably stupid to jeopardize the value of the Tesla stock to pump up the value of his Bitcoin holdings. I think it's fair to suspect something here though, and question Musks behavior these last few years. Yes, originally he wanted to save the world with Tesla and also find a new world with SpaceX (at least that was the outspoken goals), but his current dealings that skirt on legality of things, gives another side of him. Some people who seemed to be driven by the goodness of their heart ends up chasing the same money-dragon as many before them. It's not impossible.
- slg 5y agoI am not judging the goodness of his heart or whatever. I am simply stating that this theorized plan of him using Tesla as a pawn to increase the value of his Bitcoin holdings is both an idiotic plan and one that there is no evidence of actually existing. The only reason anyone would believe it is because they are forsaking critical thinking in favor of their bias against Musk that exists for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons.
- dTal 5y ago>seemed to be driven by the goodness of their heart ...we are talking about Elon Musk, right? The one who got rich founding the definitely-ethical, not-at-all-shady company PayPal? That Elon Musk?
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- thedudeabides5 5y agoOr better yet, did they move into Dogecoin, which apparently uses a lot less energy. Setting up the inevitable 'use Doge instead, it's better for the environment'
- snotrockets 5y agoDoesn't matter: considering that all cryptocurrencies have significant environmental impact, using them would force ESG-screening funds to drop the company.
- svachalek 5y agoBitcoin is deliberately inefficient to a horrifying degree but it is not "all cryptocurrencies". Most modern designs are thousands or millions of times more efficient.
- snotrockets 5y agoAnd even at that cost, they are are still an environmental disaster.
- mavhc 5y agoAnd thus worth 1000s to 100000s of times less money. Bitcoin is about turning electricity into bits, the trick is the decreasing amount of bitcoin, thus get in at the base of the pyramid to make more money
- FabHK 5y agoDoes it use less energy intrinsically, or because it hasn't gone up enough yet, triggering more hashing with a concomitant increase in difficulty and energy use?
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y agoThey may have bought more...
- smabie 5y agoWhy would Musk fuck around with a personal trading account? He probably owns some coins personally, but it would be an insignificant fraction of his networth (which is tied to Tesla). There's no conspiracy here.
- snotrockets 5y agoThey did dump at least 10%: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-26/tesla-beats-on-profit-leaves-delivery-outlook-unchanged https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-26/tesla-bea...
- rawtxapp 5y agoYep, there were some big movements on the blockchain and the exchanges prior to the public tweet.
- dheera 5y agoWhy does it matter? Manipulation is de facto legal in crypto, because no legal jurisdiction has absolute control of it, and people getting involved need to factor that in as a rule of the game and optimize their own strategies taking that into account.
- selectodude 5y agoLast information we have is from late April saying that TSLA sold off 10 percent of their bitcoin holdings. Nobody has any idea what their holdings are today.
- ique 5y agoThey sold 10%, so they expect to be in for a few more rounds. Pump and dumpers rarely just aim for one single big cycle, you go in waves for max profit.
- heavyset_go 5y agoTesla made $101M in Bitcoin profits in Q1, which was 1/6th of their operating profit.
- awb 5y agoPaper profits? Or did they sell their BTC?
- heavyset_go 5y agoThey sold their BTC.
- mnouquet 5y agoThey did - https://fortune.com/2021/04/29/what-we-know-about-teslas-bitcoin-sale/ https://fortune.com/2021/04/29/what-we-know-about-teslas-bit...
- matwood 5y ago> They never dumped. Not true. They made their numbers by selling 100M or so of BTC last quarter. https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36266393/tesla-made-more-money-selling-credits-and-bitcoin-than-cars/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36266393/tesla-mad... > The second item that helped Tesla were sales of bitcoin, the "positive impact" of which amounted to $101 million. The article says that was 1/10 of what they own. We won't know until next quarter how much more they have sold.
- throwkeep 5y agoA pump and dump is approximately the least likely explanation.
- pumaontheprowl 5y agoHow are you downvoted for this? Tesla directly lost over $100M as a result of this decision. If this was a pump-and-dumb, they did a horrible job of it. Also, a pump-and-dump scheme doesn't require you to crash the price of an asset after you exit your position. Suggesting this was a pump-and-dump is flat-out idiocy. More likely is that Musk liked the idea of Bitcoin, but got a lot of pressure from environmental activists after committing to it and decided it wasn't worth it anymore. Companies change their positions based on the outcry of political activists all the time. That's far more believable than saying Musk tanked his own company in effort to execute the worst pump-and-dump of all time.
- throwkeep 5y agoRight, that's a much more likely explanation.
- hinkley 5y agoElon is a gambler on a hot streak. He keeps making big bets that pay off, but the luck to cunning ratio is dangerously high. Some day the shoe is going to go cold and he's going to be fucked. He'll drop off the richest people list faster than he climbed it (which was too fast).
- BoorishBears 5y agoUnfortunately that's not how the current setup works. The most successful the gambler is, the more of other's people they get to gamble. He's at that point where he could never be right again and it'd never personally affect him. I mean if Tesla goes to 100 tomorrow morning, who gets hurt more? Elon or instructional investors that are supposed to be funding things like pensions?
- hinkley 5y agoHe has a track record of using all of his assets to save one. It worked before, so he will try it again, until it doesn't.
- BoorishBears 5y agoWhy would he try it again? At this point what bet would require all of his assets like before?
- hinkley 5y agoI think once SpaceX gets big, he will get so focused on milestones that if he loses some astronauts and gets sued for damages, he's likely to leverage everything he has for more flights. No matter how safe those ships are, they're not infallible, so while it may be a safe bet it's not a guaranteed bet. If another crashes after that, or he loses contracts, he could be filing for bankruptcy, and taking Tesla down with him.
- ecpottinger 5y agoAssume Tesla stock fell to 100. Well I bought mt stock at 189 pre-split, so the share I bought at 189 are still worth 500. It is the day traders who get hurt, but the people in it for the long haul are still doing fine. I always get a laugh for the people trying to scare people that Tesla stock will fall while not realizing a lot of the early purchaser will still make a profit even it the stock tanks big.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- soheil 5y agoYes, except Tesla is still holding a massive amount of bitcoin. Maybe they want their books to show a loss next quarter?
- notyourwork 5y agoOr maybe privately Elon and related made buys and sells before, during and after these news events. Something like: 1. Buy BTC 2. Announce Tesla will accept BTC. 3. Sell BTC. 4. Announce Tesla will no longer accept BTC.