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Shall we fix the roads that we drive on with our own dime too? When others benefit from a taxation and government spending system so do you. If workers have mor

Shall we fix the roads that we drive on with our own dime too? When others benefit from a taxation and government spending system so do you. If workers have more time to meaningfully chose the work they wish to partake in, managers will have less trouble with unmotivated workers etc. It isnt just about 'give me money and taxes are OK', collectivised services are an economy of scale and benefit from these communal systems.

adventured 5y ago
> Shall we fix the roads that we drive on with our own dime too? That's an interesting suggestion given how horrific US infrastructure is. If only they actually fixed the roads we drive on with the trillions of dimes they already take from us. Let's start with the fact that roads and infrastructure haven't been getting fixed properly for the past 20 to 30 years now despite a massive government expansion in spending and overall size since ~1999. Nearing $8 trillion in total government spending and they can't give us nice infrastructure or fix basic things like roads. California is supposedly awash in a tax revenue surplus of epic scale, and yet their roads and infrastructure are horrific, akin to developing nation conditions across Los Angeles as a matter of routine the past 10-15 years. edit: the downvotes are amusing, given how absolutely atrocious US infrastructure is, and given there is probably nobody left on this planet that doesn't know how bad it is. Every single person reading this knows how bad it is and how poor of a job the US has done at allocating its tax revenue the past several decades. It has been discussed endlessly here on HN for a decade or more, and now I point out that fact of reality and it's unpopular; un huh, sure.
- nradov 5y ago
  Is the infrastructure in California really atrocious? It doesn't seem so bad compared to many other countries I've visited. Some of the roads that get a lot of heavy truck traffic are a little rough. We haven't had any bridges collapse lately.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  You get the downvotes when you compare California's infrastructure to the Third World. Sure, Germany and the Netherlands have excellent infra. Do you know what's "third world" infrastructure like? It's not having potable water. It's cities of 50K people with mostly dirt roads. It's highways with potholes literally bigger than mortar craters.
  - medium_burrito 5y ago
    Much of the US infrastructure is complete shit. Sure, it's not Somalia, but the fact we are even having the comparison is ridiculous. We do have rolling blackout on occasion. We do have non potable water on occasion. We have completely fucked up roads and failing bridges. We don't have underground powerlines in most places.
- aaalexxjjamess 5y ago
  The shoddy state of US infrastructure does not condemn the entire system of taxation into the dustbin of history. Perhaps it condemns the US's way of taxation, which I agree with.
JPKab 5y ago
What you fail to consider is that there are a lot of people who simply would rather sit around and do drugs and watch TV than do any job that they are qualified for. They also lack the motivation to want to acquire new skills that would allow them to get a job that is more interesting to them. My mother was one of these people and that's what she did. She eventually used her depression which was caused by her drug addiction to get on to social security disability. She spent her entire adult life living in group homes where all the other residents were also on social security disability and when I would hang out there you could guarantee there was going to be drugs and beer everywhere as the cable TV played. The part of West Virginia where her family was and I would spend my summers was filled with people who had a way of life of living on the "draw". People like yourself who come from culturally functional backgrounds simply have no reference point to understand the other cultural dysfunction that people like my mother and her friends exhibited. She overdosed on oxycontin in 2015 and from the years 1985 to then she never worked a single job or paid a single bit of taxes and she never wanted to. I understand that I am simply spouting an anecdote here, but no matter where my mom lives she always had roommates that were just like her. There's an entire subculture of people that do this.
- aaalexxjjamess 5y ago
  You have made assumptions a plenty about me but i'll stick to your anectodal point. Progressive taxation and safety nets helps people like you describe - would you rather your mother be in a group home or on the streets freezing to death? People being 'lazy' is a far superior alternative to simply abandoning people. The problem comes when people are only given material support but no mental health support etc. This support is given out in the US and UK (where I am from) but it is woefully underfunded to the point that people blame the negative effects of underfunding on the idea it's self.
- nrb 5y ago
  I come from an extremely similar background to yours, and due to the proximity to the situation and the trauma it causes, I think people with a past like this tend to massively overestimate the pervasiveness of this behavior and how large of a problem it actually is. For every one of these people there are many more who aren’t like this and do manage to claw their way out of poverty (or at least give their children a legitimate shot at it) with the help of social programs.

adventured 5y ago

> Shall we fix the roads that we drive on with our own dime too? That's an interesting suggestion given how horrific US infrastructure is. If only they actually fixed the roads we drive on with the trillions of dimes they already take from us. Let's start with the fact that roads and infrastructure haven't been getting fixed properly for the past 20 to 30 years now despite a massive government expansion in spending and overall size since ~1999. Nearing $8 trillion in total government spending and they can't give us nice infrastructure or fix basic things like roads. California is supposedly awash in a tax revenue surplus of epic scale, and yet their roads and infrastructure are horrific, akin to developing nation conditions across Los Angeles as a matter of routine the past 10-15 years. edit: the downvotes are amusing, given how absolutely atrocious US infrastructure is, and given there is probably nobody left on this planet that doesn't know how bad it is. Every single person reading this knows how bad it is and how poor of a job the US has done at allocating its tax revenue the past several decades. It has been discussed endlessly here on HN for a decade or more, and now I point out that fact of reality and it's unpopular; un huh, sure.

nradov 5y ago
Is the infrastructure in California really atrocious? It doesn't seem so bad compared to many other countries I've visited. Some of the roads that get a lot of heavy truck traffic are a little rough. We haven't had any bridges collapse lately.
Daishiman 5y ago
You get the downvotes when you compare California's infrastructure to the Third World. Sure, Germany and the Netherlands have excellent infra. Do you know what's "third world" infrastructure like? It's not having potable water. It's cities of 50K people with mostly dirt roads. It's highways with potholes literally bigger than mortar craters.
- medium_burrito 5y ago
  Much of the US infrastructure is complete shit. Sure, it's not Somalia, but the fact we are even having the comparison is ridiculous. We do have rolling blackout on occasion. We do have non potable water on occasion. We have completely fucked up roads and failing bridges. We don't have underground powerlines in most places.
aaalexxjjamess 5y ago
The shoddy state of US infrastructure does not condemn the entire system of taxation into the dustbin of history. Perhaps it condemns the US's way of taxation, which I agree with.

JPKab 5y ago

What you fail to consider is that there are a lot of people who simply would rather sit around and do drugs and watch TV than do any job that they are qualified for. They also lack the motivation to want to acquire new skills that would allow them to get a job that is more interesting to them. My mother was one of these people and that's what she did. She eventually used her depression which was caused by her drug addiction to get on to social security disability. She spent her entire adult life living in group homes where all the other residents were also on social security disability and when I would hang out there you could guarantee there was going to be drugs and beer everywhere as the cable TV played. The part of West Virginia where her family was and I would spend my summers was filled with people who had a way of life of living on the "draw". People like yourself who come from culturally functional backgrounds simply have no reference point to understand the other cultural dysfunction that people like my mother and her friends exhibited. She overdosed on oxycontin in 2015 and from the years 1985 to then she never worked a single job or paid a single bit of taxes and she never wanted to. I understand that I am simply spouting an anecdote here, but no matter where my mom lives she always had roommates that were just like her. There's an entire subculture of people that do this.

aaalexxjjamess 5y ago
You have made assumptions a plenty about me but i'll stick to your anectodal point. Progressive taxation and safety nets helps people like you describe - would you rather your mother be in a group home or on the streets freezing to death? People being 'lazy' is a far superior alternative to simply abandoning people. The problem comes when people are only given material support but no mental health support etc. This support is given out in the US and UK (where I am from) but it is woefully underfunded to the point that people blame the negative effects of underfunding on the idea it's self.
nrb 5y ago
I come from an extremely similar background to yours, and due to the proximity to the situation and the trauma it causes, I think people with a past like this tend to massively overestimate the pervasiveness of this behavior and how large of a problem it actually is. For every one of these people there are many more who aren’t like this and do manage to claw their way out of poverty (or at least give their children a legitimate shot at it) with the help of social programs.