5 ms·

This pretty much nails it. The "politics" angle has been revealed to be a red herring by the subsequent accounts of everyone involved. The same contentious disc

This pretty much nails it. The "politics" angle has been revealed to be a red herring by the subsequent accounts of everyone involved. The same contentious discussions would have happened had this policy already existed! I guess you could say the policy gives the founders a ban hammer to swing to end discussions they don't like. Separated from their justification, the 6 policies represent an assertion that Basecamp leadership are the sole arbiters of all things Basecamp. I don't think that's an awful thing in itself, but the way it was announced was clearly felt to be completely demoralizing for employees who assumed their judgment on the direction of the company was valued. And the result seems likely to be catastrophic. Basecamp has had their pick of the litter for talent for years. Sure, they'll hire new folks who are aligned with their new way of running the company, but you don't go back to being a beacon of the industry when you lose 1/3 of your staff in a week over an ego trip.

nomdep 6y ago
1/3 of the staff that believes in things like that the “It doesn’t have to be crazy at work” title is ableist (see the Jane Yang post). Even when refers to a situation and not to a person. How radicalized you have to be to lose your capacity for critical thinking like that? If anything, Basecamp is a much better place to work now, without them
- seppin 6y ago
  > toxic people. I continue to be amazed how strong the options of people who have no real insight into any of this continue to be.
- ummonk 6y ago
  People don’t have to all agree with the Jane Yang post to hate the new policy and decide to leave.
  - nomdep 6y ago
    She mentions that it was one of the complaints that were ignored
  - papito 6y ago
    They did away with peer reviews and somehow that is a bad thing too, if I read others on Twitter. It would be a serious notch against me taking a job if I knew I had to write a peer review. Stupidest corporate shit ever.
- 55555 6y ago
  Do you have a link to the ableist controversy? I havent seen that.
  - fastball 6y ago
    https://janeyang.org/2021/04/27/an-open-letter-to-jason-and-david/ https://janeyang.org/2021/04/27/an-open-letter-to-jason-and-... https://breen.tech/post/cringe-camp/ https://breen.tech/post/cringe-camp/
- acjohnson55 6y ago
  I used to use the word "crazy" all the time, until it became apparent to me that it's not particularly kind to use a word that primarily exists to disparage severely mentally ill people. There's no positive way in modern English to call a person "crazy". As a younger person, I made a similar change regarding my use of the word "retarded" to refer to situations I thought were nonsensical or illogical. I'm now embarrassed to have used that word so thoughtlessly, even though it was pointed out many times that it was an unkind thing to do. Call it radicalism if you want, but I think it's just a matter of stepping back and reevaluating behaviors I took for granted. You know, literal critical thinking. We're not yet at the point where people look at the word "crazy" as being wildly inappropriate in the same way as "retarded", but I think it's completely reasonable for people to raise the point that putting it in the title of a book that represents the whole company is not a good idea. You're fooling yourself if you think Basecamp will be improved by losing 1/3 of its staff, including some department heads and long-tenured employees, as well as its nearly universally positive reputation.
jimbokun 6y ago
Sounds like they will get applicants wanting to make successful products for their customers, instead of focusing their work time and resources on accomplishing a personal political agenda.
- 8note 6y ago
  That still sounds like a personal political agenda to me
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Just one that is aligned with the founders vision, which seems fine to me?
8note 6y ago
Huh? Politics is all about the distribution of power. Just a different politics than the one people have been suggesting?
ZephyrBlu 6y ago
> you lose 1/3 of your staff in a week over an ego trip That's how you see it. Many other people do not see it in such a poor light.
- predaking 6y ago
  And many other people do see it as such. What are we gaining from pointing out there are many people seeing it in both ways? =)
  - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
    Because OP said "you don't go back to being a beacon of the industry when you lose 1/3 of your staff in a week over an ego trip", which to me implies that this caused Basecamp to take a massive hit to their reputation. Except it's really not clear how this is going to shake out, because people are quite divided on the issue.

nomdep 6y ago

1/3 of the staff that believes in things like that the “It doesn’t have to be crazy at work” title is ableist (see the Jane Yang post). Even when refers to a situation and not to a person. How radicalized you have to be to lose your capacity for critical thinking like that? If anything, Basecamp is a much better place to work now, without them

seppin 6y ago
> toxic people. I continue to be amazed how strong the options of people who have no real insight into any of this continue to be.
ummonk 6y ago
People don’t have to all agree with the Jane Yang post to hate the new policy and decide to leave.
- nomdep 6y ago
  She mentions that it was one of the complaints that were ignored
- papito 6y ago
  They did away with peer reviews and somehow that is a bad thing too, if I read others on Twitter. It would be a serious notch against me taking a job if I knew I had to write a peer review. Stupidest corporate shit ever.
55555 6y ago
Do you have a link to the ableist controversy? I havent seen that.
- fastball 6y ago
  https://janeyang.org/2021/04/27/an-open-letter-to-jason-and-david/ https://janeyang.org/2021/04/27/an-open-letter-to-jason-and-... https://breen.tech/post/cringe-camp/ https://breen.tech/post/cringe-camp/
acjohnson55 6y ago
I used to use the word "crazy" all the time, until it became apparent to me that it's not particularly kind to use a word that primarily exists to disparage severely mentally ill people. There's no positive way in modern English to call a person "crazy". As a younger person, I made a similar change regarding my use of the word "retarded" to refer to situations I thought were nonsensical or illogical. I'm now embarrassed to have used that word so thoughtlessly, even though it was pointed out many times that it was an unkind thing to do. Call it radicalism if you want, but I think it's just a matter of stepping back and reevaluating behaviors I took for granted. You know, literal critical thinking. We're not yet at the point where people look at the word "crazy" as being wildly inappropriate in the same way as "retarded", but I think it's completely reasonable for people to raise the point that putting it in the title of a book that represents the whole company is not a good idea. You're fooling yourself if you think Basecamp will be improved by losing 1/3 of its staff, including some department heads and long-tenured employees, as well as its nearly universally positive reputation.

jimbokun 6y ago

Sounds like they will get applicants wanting to make successful products for their customers, instead of focusing their work time and resources on accomplishing a personal political agenda.

8note 6y ago
That still sounds like a personal political agenda to me
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Just one that is aligned with the founders vision, which seems fine to me?

8note 6y ago

Huh? Politics is all about the distribution of power. Just a different politics than the one people have been suggesting?

ZephyrBlu 6y ago

> you lose 1/3 of your staff in a week over an ego trip That's how you see it. Many other people do not see it in such a poor light.

predaking 6y ago
And many other people do see it as such. What are we gaining from pointing out there are many people seeing it in both ways? =)
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  Because OP said "you don't go back to being a beacon of the industry when you lose 1/3 of your staff in a week over an ego trip", which to me implies that this caused Basecamp to take a massive hit to their reputation. Except it's really not clear how this is going to shake out, because people are quite divided on the issue.