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> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. That's just straight evil - overriding user preferences to favor your own products... Some growth PM and/or business head is trying way too hard to hit their OKRs. I'd be surprised if Google could defend this in court.

908B64B197 5y ago
> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. That's the behavior I would expect from a full screen app. ie, if I issue a command in a full screen app for the command to be interpreted in the context of that app.
- gsich 5y ago
  Make it configurable and everyone is happy.
  - resizeitplz 5y ago
    It is configurable. Google is asking Roku to override the user's chosen configuration.
    - pythonaut_16 5y ago
      He's clearly suggesting making context aware search an option. "When searching within an app, favor results from that app" vs "When searching within an app always favor my default"
      - Nadya 5y ago
        >"When searching within an app, favor results from that app" vs >"When searching within an app, favor results from a related app" There is a big difference between these two things. "Youtube" is not the same as "Youtube Music" in the same way that "Xbox" is not the same as "Xbox Live". As p49k explained it - if you were trying to send an email from YouTube would you expect Gmail to come up or your preferred email app? What if Gmail was renamed to "Youtube Mail"? Would that change your expected behavior?
        pythonaut_16 5y ago
        Sending an email is a different interaction than doing voice search. Sending an email is an explicit intent - open whatever app I use to send emails. Searching is an open query - find the most relevant results. What results are most relevant is subjective, hence why you would give the user a choice for what results to favor. The separation between Youtube and Youtube Music is a technical minutia, they're both Youtube just different apps. If you want a technical solution, Roku should probably implement a search API such that doing a voice search would let the Roku query whatever app is currently running for results. Then any app can provide more relevant, context aware results.
        Nadya 5y ago
        >Sending an email is a different interaction than doing voice search. Going from watching videos to playing music is a different interaction than doing voice search. >Sending an email is an explicit intent - open whatever app I use to send emails. Using a global voice commands (not search) has explicit behavior - use whatever app I have set to default for the functionality I am requesting. "Play Stairway to Heaven" should use my default music app. Note that "voice commands" is different from "voice search" in this context and is the alleged problem. >Searching is an open query - find the most relevant results. If I use Spotify as my default music app it is because I trust their music search more than YouTube Music. Otherwise YouTube Music would be my default music app. There is also a massive contextual difference between a global Voice Search (using the Voice search icon on the Roku remote: it searches Roku) and using the Speech to Text option that may appear when already searching within a search field (which uses the search field of the app itself, in this case: Youtube) >The separation between Youtube and Youtube Music is a technical minutia, they're both Youtube just different apps. Google deciding there is a difference between the two means that there is a difference between the two for both a marketing perspective and whatever minor technical differences there are. If there were no differences there would not be a YouTube Music app and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous.
- stefan_ 5y ago
  Maybe, maybe not? If I'm in Google Maps, should Siri offer me Google^TM-themed recommendations?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    If I'm actively using Google Maps, I'd love for Siri to respond to "get directions to McDonalds" within the Google Maps context instead of opening Apple's.
    - p49k 5y ago
      Sure, but that’s not what Google is asking of Roku.
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        It is. If their app is open and full screen, search within the app first.
        p49k 5y ago
        No it isn’t. If you have Google maps open and suddenly decide you want to go to McDonald’s, then sure, that voice command should go to Google Maps. But if you make a voice command to send an email to someone, it shouldn’t open Gmail instead of your default mail app just because Google maps is open. Similarly, if you’re watching a video on YouTube and want to search for a cat video, sure, the voice command should search in YouTube. But if you want to listen to music and have Spotify set as your default music app, it shouldn’t send the request to YouTube Music just because YouTube is open.
        DashAnimal 5y ago
        But YouTube is a music streaming platform. The most popular, in fact (no, not YouTube music). I constantly listen to music across both Spotify and YouTube. YouTube serves video and doesn't present music in the way we usually think of it, albums sorted by artist, chronologically presented... But that isn't really how the younger gen listens to music. It is a music app and a common way a lot of people consume their music.
- djanogo 5y ago
  That's not at all how voice assists are meant to work. Voice icon in cars/remotes are all meant to provide answers or take commands irrespective of what's happening on that device or other devices they control.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    In a car sure. On a living room TV?
    - djanogo 5y ago
      iPhone siri (iphoone gesture), Fire stick microphone icons perform broad range of tasks irrespective of last task.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    I don’t think you can make such a blanket statement. I think this behavior is what I would expect (search within open app first) and when it’s not present, it’s frustrating.
  - mupuff1234 5y ago
    Quite the opposite, context is a critical aspect voice assistants currently lack.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  I find FireTV stick (from Amazon) to be applying in this respect, it doesn't appear to know command that direct them input to a specific app. When I have Google open and ask it to search for $search-string it will do it in the Amazon store context, ie offer to sell me a program rather than find the string on Google. Annoying. It relates to the lack of discoverability in voice interfaces, there may be an incantation to get the behaviouyr I want but there's no way within the interface that such methods is revealed.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    s/applying/annoying
- egberts1 5y ago
  yeah, what’s worse about the YouTube crippling of its full-screen is that it actually DISABLED any captioning. Talk about corporate-imposed audism.
fra 5y ago
I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. This is both what many users would expect (if I have an app open, voice search works within that app), and a pretty reasonable ask for any business (don't show competitor's offering when searching within my app).
- iforgotpassword 5y ago
  Agree on the second one, but why tf should Google force them to support vp9? If they want to save some money there to stay competitive it's none of Google's business.
  - cma 5y ago
    Doesn't it cost Google more in either bandwidth or patent fees if they don't support VP9?
    - edoceo 5y ago
      maybe. and that's Gs problem that they are trying to make Rs problem.
      - cma 5y ago
        Not illegal unless it is monopoly abuse somehow.
        fuzzer37 5y ago
        Well it is monopoly abuse.
galkk 5y ago
> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora This is what my Amazon Echo Show is doing when Youtube is open on it, and I find it rather logical and convenient. That lets me search on youtube with my voice. disc: Google employee
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > disc: Google employee It's probably not the best idea to be commenting on antitrust allegations against your employer unless you want your comment to be read out loud in a deposition.
  - galkk 5y ago
    Opinions are my own, obviously. But I just stated fact. I'd say the same when I were Amazon employee - this is convenient.
izacus 5y ago
Last I checked YouTube requires VP9 support for HDR. Why is requesting that new devices support the format to avoid fragmentation a problem? Apple also demands certain format support for their video streams to work (not to mention a browser).
- ed25519FUUU 5y ago
  The keyword is “threaten”
  - bagacrap 5y ago
    "threaten" is such a cheap and meaningless word, mostly used to claim victimhood.
  - izacus 5y ago
    Can you explain more? How is "We'll be streaming channels in VP9 and your client needs to support it to continue working?" a "threat"? Is Apple dropping support for older iMacs / MacBooks / iPhones also a threat to all the companies using them?
brightball 5y ago
The more streaming services appear, the more I like my bundled cable plan + Tivo. Seems like you get a lot of additional headaches after the initial joy of cord cutting wears off.
- rOOb85 5y ago
  This is exactly what the cable co's want. F em. I'll either pay for the services or pirate the content. I will never let the cable co's "win". They are terrible, horrible, corrupt, money grubbing soulless corporations who have screwed over the masses for long enough.
thehnguy 5y ago
Not a good look Google; especially when you've got a great, big target on your back from the antitrust/anticompetitive hawks.
- smolder 5y ago
  Hawks have great eyesight, and are effective predators. It's not a good metaphor for the people who punish anticompetitive behavior. Maybe anti-trust sloths?
myko 5y ago
> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. This seems reasonable to me - it would be super frustrating if I'm in YouTube, hit search, and Pandora pops up. Like what's the point of that?
suifbwish 5y ago
I read that as “Google has threatened to acquire Roku”

908B64B197 5y ago

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. That's the behavior I would expect from a full screen app. ie, if I issue a command in a full screen app for the command to be interpreted in the context of that app.

gsich 5y ago
Make it configurable and everyone is happy.
- resizeitplz 5y ago
  It is configurable. Google is asking Roku to override the user's chosen configuration.
  - pythonaut_16 5y ago
    He's clearly suggesting making context aware search an option. "When searching within an app, favor results from that app" vs "When searching within an app always favor my default"
    - Nadya 5y ago
      >"When searching within an app, favor results from that app" vs >"When searching within an app, favor results from a related app" There is a big difference between these two things. "Youtube" is not the same as "Youtube Music" in the same way that "Xbox" is not the same as "Xbox Live". As p49k explained it - if you were trying to send an email from YouTube would you expect Gmail to come up or your preferred email app? What if Gmail was renamed to "Youtube Mail"? Would that change your expected behavior?
      - pythonaut_16 5y ago
        Sending an email is a different interaction than doing voice search. Sending an email is an explicit intent - open whatever app I use to send emails. Searching is an open query - find the most relevant results. What results are most relevant is subjective, hence why you would give the user a choice for what results to favor. The separation between Youtube and Youtube Music is a technical minutia, they're both Youtube just different apps. If you want a technical solution, Roku should probably implement a search API such that doing a voice search would let the Roku query whatever app is currently running for results. Then any app can provide more relevant, context aware results.
        Nadya 5y ago
        >Sending an email is a different interaction than doing voice search. Going from watching videos to playing music is a different interaction than doing voice search. >Sending an email is an explicit intent - open whatever app I use to send emails. Using a global voice commands (not search) has explicit behavior - use whatever app I have set to default for the functionality I am requesting. "Play Stairway to Heaven" should use my default music app. Note that "voice commands" is different from "voice search" in this context and is the alleged problem. >Searching is an open query - find the most relevant results. If I use Spotify as my default music app it is because I trust their music search more than YouTube Music. Otherwise YouTube Music would be my default music app. There is also a massive contextual difference between a global Voice Search (using the Voice search icon on the Roku remote: it searches Roku) and using the Speech to Text option that may appear when already searching within a search field (which uses the search field of the app itself, in this case: Youtube) >The separation between Youtube and Youtube Music is a technical minutia, they're both Youtube just different apps. Google deciding there is a difference between the two means that there is a difference between the two for both a marketing perspective and whatever minor technical differences there are. If there were no differences there would not be a YouTube Music app and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous.
stefan_ 5y ago
Maybe, maybe not? If I'm in Google Maps, should Siri offer me Google^TM-themed recommendations?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  If I'm actively using Google Maps, I'd love for Siri to respond to "get directions to McDonalds" within the Google Maps context instead of opening Apple's.
  - p49k 5y ago
    Sure, but that’s not what Google is asking of Roku.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      It is. If their app is open and full screen, search within the app first.
      - p49k 5y ago
        No it isn’t. If you have Google maps open and suddenly decide you want to go to McDonald’s, then sure, that voice command should go to Google Maps. But if you make a voice command to send an email to someone, it shouldn’t open Gmail instead of your default mail app just because Google maps is open. Similarly, if you’re watching a video on YouTube and want to search for a cat video, sure, the voice command should search in YouTube. But if you want to listen to music and have Spotify set as your default music app, it shouldn’t send the request to YouTube Music just because YouTube is open.
        DashAnimal 5y ago
        But YouTube is a music streaming platform. The most popular, in fact (no, not YouTube music). I constantly listen to music across both Spotify and YouTube. YouTube serves video and doesn't present music in the way we usually think of it, albums sorted by artist, chronologically presented... But that isn't really how the younger gen listens to music. It is a music app and a common way a lot of people consume their music.
djanogo 5y ago
That's not at all how voice assists are meant to work. Voice icon in cars/remotes are all meant to provide answers or take commands irrespective of what's happening on that device or other devices they control.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  In a car sure. On a living room TV?
  - djanogo 5y ago
    iPhone siri (iphoone gesture), Fire stick microphone icons perform broad range of tasks irrespective of last task.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  I don’t think you can make such a blanket statement. I think this behavior is what I would expect (search within open app first) and when it’s not present, it’s frustrating.
- mupuff1234 5y ago
  Quite the opposite, context is a critical aspect voice assistants currently lack.
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
I find FireTV stick (from Amazon) to be applying in this respect, it doesn't appear to know command that direct them input to a specific app. When I have Google open and ask it to search for $search-string it will do it in the Amazon store context, ie offer to sell me a program rather than find the string on Google. Annoying. It relates to the lack of discoverability in voice interfaces, there may be an incantation to get the behaviouyr I want but there's no way within the interface that such methods is revealed.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  s/applying/annoying
egberts1 5y ago
yeah, what’s worse about the YouTube crippling of its full-screen is that it actually DISABLED any captioning. Talk about corporate-imposed audism.

fra 5y ago

I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. This is both what many users would expect (if I have an app open, voice search works within that app), and a pretty reasonable ask for any business (don't show competitor's offering when searching within my app).

iforgotpassword 5y ago
Agree on the second one, but why tf should Google force them to support vp9? If they want to save some money there to stay competitive it's none of Google's business.
- cma 5y ago
  Doesn't it cost Google more in either bandwidth or patent fees if they don't support VP9?
  - edoceo 5y ago
    maybe. and that's Gs problem that they are trying to make Rs problem.
    - cma 5y ago
      Not illegal unless it is monopoly abuse somehow.
      - fuzzer37 5y ago
        Well it is monopoly abuse.

galkk 5y ago

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora This is what my Amazon Echo Show is doing when Youtube is open on it, and I find it rather logical and convenient. That lets me search on youtube with my voice. disc: Google employee

heavyset_go 5y ago
> disc: Google employee It's probably not the best idea to be commenting on antitrust allegations against your employer unless you want your comment to be read out loud in a deposition.
- galkk 5y ago
  Opinions are my own, obviously. But I just stated fact. I'd say the same when I were Amazon employee - this is convenient.

izacus 5y ago

Last I checked YouTube requires VP9 support for HDR. Why is requesting that new devices support the format to avoid fragmentation a problem? Apple also demands certain format support for their video streams to work (not to mention a browser).

ed25519FUUU 5y ago
The keyword is “threaten”
- bagacrap 5y ago
  "threaten" is such a cheap and meaningless word, mostly used to claim victimhood.
- izacus 5y ago
  Can you explain more? How is "We'll be streaming channels in VP9 and your client needs to support it to continue working?" a "threat"? Is Apple dropping support for older iMacs / MacBooks / iPhones also a threat to all the companies using them?

brightball 5y ago

The more streaming services appear, the more I like my bundled cable plan + Tivo. Seems like you get a lot of additional headaches after the initial joy of cord cutting wears off.

rOOb85 5y ago
This is exactly what the cable co's want. F em. I'll either pay for the services or pirate the content. I will never let the cable co's "win". They are terrible, horrible, corrupt, money grubbing soulless corporations who have screwed over the masses for long enough.

thehnguy 5y ago

Not a good look Google; especially when you've got a great, big target on your back from the antitrust/anticompetitive hawks.

smolder 5y ago
Hawks have great eyesight, and are effective predators. It's not a good metaphor for the people who punish anticompetitive behavior. Maybe anti-trust sloths?

myko 5y ago

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. This seems reasonable to me - it would be super frustrating if I'm in YouTube, hit search, and Pandora pops up. Like what's the point of that?

suifbwish 5y ago

I read that as “Google has threatened to acquire Roku”