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People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness isn't equipment it is ecosystems. You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct is

People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness isn't equipment it is ecosystems. You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct is to compare it to other equipment manufacturers, but that's wrong. Consumers aren't spending 50% more of Peloton because a Peloton bike/tred is 50% better than their nearest competitor. People are spending that money to be in the Peloton ecosystem. To work out with friends in Peloton. So I say to people that Apple is Peloton's biggest competitor, and they look at me like I'm a moron. Because they see equipment and I see ecosystems. I believe fitness will be the next "social media" land rush, and most traditional equipment makers are unprepared (they're naively copying Peloton on features without really grasping what Peloton is building). PS - Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of Fitness (apps/games inc. achievements tied directly into equipment, like the "iPhone" of fitness equipment).

LeSaucy 6y ago
NordicTrack/iFit is a great example of equipment manufacturers that just don't get it.
- shanecleveland 6y ago
  How do you mean? Just curious because my wife, who always hated running, is killing it with a NordicTrack treadmill and iFit. She bought a shirt to support her favorite instructor, she is part of some Facebook groups, and talks quite a bit about the "experience" of each run. I don't quite get it myself, so I am not advocating for one or the other. But it seems to be working for her.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mikestew 6y ago
  I'm with sibling commenter, how so? We got a year of iFit with the rowing machine, and considering that my wife uses it several times a week on both rower and treadmill, I'll probably renew it when the time comes in a few months. In the case of the rower, it's nice in that it will adjust the resistance automatically. I mostly use Apple Fitness+ when on the rower, but iFit is nice in that it is not restricted to studio workouts. There is a far deeper library on iFit, and more variety. Outdoor workouts, indoor if that's your thing, a "Time to Walk" equivalent before Apple thought of it. I don't know if we'll renew the sub or not, but I think iFit gets it just fine.
anonymouse008 6y ago
> You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct is to compare it to other equipment manufacturers, but that's wrong. Consumers aren't spending 50% more of Peloton because a Peloton bike/tred is 50% better than their nearest competitor. People are spending that money to be in the Peloton ecosystem. To work out with friends in Peloton. Did you just say 'Crossfit' without saying 'Crossfit'? 'Gyms' without saying 'Gyms'? I agree, these products realize that the physical movement via machine is only one part of the greater whole... if these companies can replicate the rest of the Gym/CF/WE experience, there is a great win hiding in plain sight.
- watwut 6y ago
  Gyms are about equipment. They are not social places. You don't go hang around there. You don't talk to people there.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    Mine was. It had a pool table in the entrance too. I used to go to the gym on a Saturday morning to sweat out the hangover and chat shit with the others doing the same. My friends was. It was a grotty thing in the basement. It was primarily about the equipment. It was a lifting gym. The folk that went there would hang out, help each other, and talk plenty. They all had a common interest: lifting. They also thought people like me in my gym above were posers. That’s fine too. Not everyone uses a gym the same way. Not all gyms are the same.
  - anonymouse008 6y ago
    Ah, there are plenty of other ways to communicate than just talking... Perhaps this won’t be replicated in the digital sphere, but the identity behind “leader boards” and physical aspirationals, which I believe these digital offerings still provide, is an effective means to create community and followings. Heck a couple great friendships began in silence for months, with strict social distancing before it was cool
michaelt 6y ago
Tell me more about how 'working out with friends' works on Peloton. I've only tried online exercise classes once or twice, but there hasn't been much social interaction - everyone's on mute, and a few feet away from the screen and keyboard to have space for their activities. Or is it more the Strava-style 'log your exercise and get likes and gamified motivation' asynchronous model?
- hcurtiss 6y ago
  I haven't used it, but my 10 year old daughter seems to enjoy riding at the same time as her friend. Evidently, they share a real time a mutual video chat. You both join the same class and one of you finds the other in the list of participants and request to chat.
- matwood 6y ago
  The biggest 'social' part is that my friends and I end up doing the same rides, and even though it's at different times we end up competing and chasing each other. I had some goals I thought were going to take months, but I've already blown threw them b/c I could chase my friends ghost on his ride. If I do a ride first, I text it out to everyone basically throwing the down gauntlet. There's also a talent component. I've done everything from spin, to weight classes, to powerlifting for many years when I was younger, and the Peloton trainers are very good. They are good motivators, and they have taught me quite a few warmup techniques I'm carrying to other areas as life gets back to normal. YMMV.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  Here are some of the social features Peloton are building: https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-community-features/ https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-community-features/ Leaderboard: Compete with friends/others. Tags: Like groups/circles, you can be invited/invite on the basis or compete with people in that tag. High Fives: A "Like" Following Friends: Essentially their fitness "stream" showing what they've done/are doing. Video Chatting: Chat with friends while you workout together. Plus you'll get alerted when a friend is in a class, encouraging you to join them. https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-sessions/ https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-sessions/ Schedule workouts with friends, compare each other on the leaderboard.
mtberatwork 6y ago
> Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of Fitness Seems like Zwift is Peloton's biggest competitor then?
- cglace 6y ago
  I really like zwift but I don't find it motivates me at all.
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    My general impression is that zwift caters to the "serious cyclist" crowd and peloton caters to the more typical (upper middle class) consumer. It's a bit silly to spend $3K (and space!) on a standing exercise bike when you already have at least one bike in the $3K range and often a second in the $10K+ range, both of which you'd probably prefer riding on trainer over Peloton anyways.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  It is definitely one to keep a close eye on. This whole land rush is just getting started, but as it heats up if Zwift can keep up growth they could benefit greatly (be it directly or via a tech company buying them).
Graffur 6y ago
I am surprised they look at you like a moron. Myself and all my friends have fitbits. The reason we all have and use fitbits is because that is what we're all connected on. If one friend got a functionally better but cheaper watch off Amazon they wouldn't be able to join us in our group challenges and comparisons. This has actually happened a few times but after a while that person got what the group had. That being said there are apps that bring this up a level and let you connect multiple products and devices. If one of these apps becomes popular then it's less dependent on what device you own.
technofiend 6y ago
>People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness isn't equipment it is ecosystems. You're right but I hate that future, to be honest. I don't really want to buy a Garmin phone to talk to my Garmin watch so I can buy into their ecosystem. Apple watches may be fantastic but there are still better dedicated fitness watches out there and frankly the idea of a watch dictating my cellphone choice (as the Apple Watch does) makes me completely reject the idea of buying that watch.
- rstupek 6y ago
  I think the ecosystem being referred to isn't the device ecosystem but the "social network" sharing ecosystem
  - newsclues 6y ago
    How long until device and social media networks are linked?
    - lancesells 6y ago
      They already are aren't they? Most social networks launch on iOS only at the beginning.
    - PeterisP 6y ago
      Oculus and Facebook is an indication of something like that; can't use your Oculus without your Facebook account.
  - technofiend 6y ago
    Oh, you're right. I see that now. Having said that Apple isn't really big on cross-platform features either. I don't see a Facetime Android client, for example, and have no expectation they'd make Apple Fitness+ work on anything but their own devices; after all the byline is "Apple Fitness+ ... powered by Apple Watch." And since the watch requires their phone that's a big investment if you just want to exercise with friends.
zozin 6y ago
I don't really see Apple Fitness+ and Peloton as competitors. First, the Peloton bike/equipment is both targeted at and only really make sense for the 1%. Apple's hardware is a few hundred bucks and has insane usability beyond Fitness+. If you're speaking about just the apps and not hardware, again, I don't think they're direct competitors. Peloton's app sans Peloton hardware is basically just YouTube videos... There are dozens of content producers that cater to everyone's style or form of working out. Why pay Peloton $13/mo. just to get into the ecosystem? An ecosystem that was designed from the ground-up for people who make +$100K/yr., so the average American probably doesn't have friends who are using Peloton's app. Apple Fitness+ on the other-hand is designed to work in tandem with your cheapish Apple Watch. The fusion between hardware and software is where the magic happens. Peloton doesn't have that unless you have a spare bedroom + $3,000 to spend on fitness upfront.
nradov 6y ago
Tonal and Zwift are also trying to build the same sort of fitness ecosystems as Peleton. Tonal has a wall mounted display for weight training with instructors. Zwift is designing their own smart bike (and maybe a treadmill too). Too early to say if they'll succeed.
clairity 6y ago
it's not just ecosystem => network effects => winner take all. apple is trying to skim the cream off the top with fitness+ like they did with music and itunes, but the market characteristics are different here. first, the market opportunity is much smaller. everyone listens to music (and has a phone nowadays). that's a huge reachable market. only the well-off will pay for fitness+, so you're looking at <20% of everyone to start. second, music was already in the transition from physical (cd's) to digital (mp3's) to streaming (just waiting for high-speed internet penetration). the fitness market is not in that same transition. it's still constrained by the physical world, no matter how 'social' it gets. third, peloton's hardware is what makes the ecosystem, not the other way around (which is apple's strategy). it creates a halo of influence around the purchaser through price and product that apple simply can't replicate with just an apple tv, a watch, and a subscription. (i don't like peloton personally, but the market dynamics here are recognizable) i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has narrow appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or differentiation. zooming out, apple's "plus" strategy overall strays away from their strength in hardware-based consumer products, and i'm skeptical they can differentiate enough to retain that business long term, whereas homekit, carkit, and the like couch very neatly into that strength, and likely represents durable future expansion.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  > i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has narrow appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or differentiation. Fitness+ comes with one of the tiers of Apple One. That makes it "free" to the user. Let's say you only wanted Music, TV+, and the storage (especially useful if you have multiple iDevices in your family and you want cloud backup): Music - $9.99 individual, or $14.99 family TV+ - $4.99 (already at $20 for a family here) 2TB Storage - $9.99 (now we're at $30) So Fitness+, News+, and Arcade are "free" additions if you get Apple One Premier. Of course, you need an Apple Watch to use Fitness+ but you can use it with any garage sale treadmill, bike, rowing machine, yoga mat, dumbbell set, etc. And if you have the Apple Watch you've already been able to drop things like Runkeeper and Strava for tracking running and cycling.
  - batter 6y ago
TameAntelope 6y ago
The other article on the front page must make you feel pretty correct, then! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577
dkrich 6y ago
I don’t think this is a controversial take. Most everyone buying a Peloton is doing so because of the classes, the bike is just a status symbol.
gumby 6y ago
That's true, and what makes this decision so foolish. By raising the bar slightly they are inducing some people to choose Fitness+. Avoiding this is why Apple made the iPod compatible with Windows. Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple has had its own music products for longer than Spotify has been around.
- kitsunesoba 6y ago
  > Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple has had its own music products for longer than Spotify has been around. Some portion of Spotify's success, I'd argue, is that they were the first successful entrant in the streaming space. The product isn't particularly remarkable compared to other options and in fact has some notable downsides (such as its ever-changing-for-unclear-reasons UI) but it's what people know and thus what people use. It having a free ad-supported plan is also a massive factor, but I suppose that would fall under "lowering the bar".
  - ksec 6y ago
    >The product isn't particularly remarkable compared to other options It is not that Spotify is exceptionally good, it is just the others are comically bad.
    - foobiter 6y ago
      initially, but i’ve tried them all and they’re essentially the same now - opted for Tidal due to the higher quality streams, even after years of listening on Spotify recommendations have been very similar too
nnlsoccer 6y ago
Phase 3: Connection of all Apple health fitness tracking/health tracking data. As wearables and body data monitoring continue to evolve and increase the number of bio markers/biometrics measured, apple is poised to integrate these in a way that Peloton and other fitness focused brands may or may not be.
- ksec 6y ago
  Phase 4: Those aggregate data from Millions of users provides additional insight that is only available from Apple. Health Insurance with these Data ( and your consent to use it ) will get better offers and Apple gets commissions. ( Services Revenue )
  - nnlsoccer 6y ago
    Agreed. That is certainly the dark side of that path. From a user/patient perspective, the interesting side of that equation might be a world where those biometrics are tracked and integrated (with your consent) with an EHR so that your doctor can see continuous metrics in a way that is actionable for clinical decision making.
et-al 6y ago
> Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of Fitness We definitely saw this with Nike+ back in the late naughts [0]. Then Strava in the mid-teens, and now Peloton. Competitive people want to compete with their friends, not just against themselves. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike%2B https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike%2B
_the_inflator 6y ago
I totally agree. Also Corona: Outdoor sports is one of the few accepted social activities, at least in some parts.
- xbar 6y ago
  Surges coincide.
shoulderfake 6y ago
Here's what I know: Nobody that's legit fit has a peloton. They train on their own in the gym or they do crossfit. This is apart from the people I know who play sports competitively. What does Peloton give you that crossfit doesnt?
voisin 6y ago
I agree with you and find it interesting that (so far) Apple is leaving actual equipment (beyond the watch) outside of its usual close integration of hardware and software. Users need 3rd party equipment (treadmill or rower or bike) for 3 of the exercises (which are likely the most popular exercises on Fitness+). Currently outside of very expensive commercial equipment with GymKit, there are no good options and it honestly leads to a horrible experience using 3rd party apps or missing key information (cadence, strokes per minute, etc) from your workout in Apple Health. I am hopeful Apple pushes hard on GymKit in retail equipment otherwise I think Peloton’s ecosystem will prevail. It just works.

LeSaucy 6y ago

NordicTrack/iFit is a great example of equipment manufacturers that just don't get it.

shanecleveland 6y ago
How do you mean? Just curious because my wife, who always hated running, is killing it with a NordicTrack treadmill and iFit. She bought a shirt to support her favorite instructor, she is part of some Facebook groups, and talks quite a bit about the "experience" of each run. I don't quite get it myself, so I am not advocating for one or the other. But it seems to be working for her.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mikestew 6y ago
I'm with sibling commenter, how so? We got a year of iFit with the rowing machine, and considering that my wife uses it several times a week on both rower and treadmill, I'll probably renew it when the time comes in a few months. In the case of the rower, it's nice in that it will adjust the resistance automatically. I mostly use Apple Fitness+ when on the rower, but iFit is nice in that it is not restricted to studio workouts. There is a far deeper library on iFit, and more variety. Outdoor workouts, indoor if that's your thing, a "Time to Walk" equivalent before Apple thought of it. I don't know if we'll renew the sub or not, but I think iFit gets it just fine.

anonymouse008 6y ago

> You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct is to compare it to other equipment manufacturers, but that's wrong. Consumers aren't spending 50% more of Peloton because a Peloton bike/tred is 50% better than their nearest competitor. People are spending that money to be in the Peloton ecosystem. To work out with friends in Peloton. Did you just say 'Crossfit' without saying 'Crossfit'? 'Gyms' without saying 'Gyms'? I agree, these products realize that the physical movement via machine is only one part of the greater whole... if these companies can replicate the rest of the Gym/CF/WE experience, there is a great win hiding in plain sight.

watwut 6y ago
Gyms are about equipment. They are not social places. You don't go hang around there. You don't talk to people there.
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  Mine was. It had a pool table in the entrance too. I used to go to the gym on a Saturday morning to sweat out the hangover and chat shit with the others doing the same. My friends was. It was a grotty thing in the basement. It was primarily about the equipment. It was a lifting gym. The folk that went there would hang out, help each other, and talk plenty. They all had a common interest: lifting. They also thought people like me in my gym above were posers. That’s fine too. Not everyone uses a gym the same way. Not all gyms are the same.
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  Ah, there are plenty of other ways to communicate than just talking... Perhaps this won’t be replicated in the digital sphere, but the identity behind “leader boards” and physical aspirationals, which I believe these digital offerings still provide, is an effective means to create community and followings. Heck a couple great friendships began in silence for months, with strict social distancing before it was cool

michaelt 6y ago

Tell me more about how 'working out with friends' works on Peloton. I've only tried online exercise classes once or twice, but there hasn't been much social interaction - everyone's on mute, and a few feet away from the screen and keyboard to have space for their activities. Or is it more the Strava-style 'log your exercise and get likes and gamified motivation' asynchronous model?

hcurtiss 6y ago
I haven't used it, but my 10 year old daughter seems to enjoy riding at the same time as her friend. Evidently, they share a real time a mutual video chat. You both join the same class and one of you finds the other in the list of participants and request to chat.
matwood 6y ago
The biggest 'social' part is that my friends and I end up doing the same rides, and even though it's at different times we end up competing and chasing each other. I had some goals I thought were going to take months, but I've already blown threw them b/c I could chase my friends ghost on his ride. If I do a ride first, I text it out to everyone basically throwing the down gauntlet. There's also a talent component. I've done everything from spin, to weight classes, to powerlifting for many years when I was younger, and the Peloton trainers are very good. They are good motivators, and they have taught me quite a few warmup techniques I'm carrying to other areas as life gets back to normal. YMMV.
Someone1234 6y ago
Here are some of the social features Peloton are building: https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-community-features/ https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-community-features/ Leaderboard: Compete with friends/others. Tags: Like groups/circles, you can be invited/invite on the basis or compete with people in that tag. High Fives: A "Like" Following Friends: Essentially their fitness "stream" showing what they've done/are doing. Video Chatting: Chat with friends while you workout together. Plus you'll get alerted when a friend is in a class, encouraging you to join them. https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-sessions/ https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-sessions/ Schedule workouts with friends, compare each other on the leaderboard.

mtberatwork 6y ago

> Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of Fitness Seems like Zwift is Peloton's biggest competitor then?

cglace 6y ago
I really like zwift but I don't find it motivates me at all.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  My general impression is that zwift caters to the "serious cyclist" crowd and peloton caters to the more typical (upper middle class) consumer. It's a bit silly to spend $3K (and space!) on a standing exercise bike when you already have at least one bike in the $3K range and often a second in the $10K+ range, both of which you'd probably prefer riding on trainer over Peloton anyways.
Someone1234 6y ago
It is definitely one to keep a close eye on. This whole land rush is just getting started, but as it heats up if Zwift can keep up growth they could benefit greatly (be it directly or via a tech company buying them).

Graffur 6y ago

I am surprised they look at you like a moron. Myself and all my friends have fitbits. The reason we all have and use fitbits is because that is what we're all connected on. If one friend got a functionally better but cheaper watch off Amazon they wouldn't be able to join us in our group challenges and comparisons. This has actually happened a few times but after a while that person got what the group had. That being said there are apps that bring this up a level and let you connect multiple products and devices. If one of these apps becomes popular then it's less dependent on what device you own.

technofiend 6y ago

>People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness isn't equipment it is ecosystems. You're right but I hate that future, to be honest. I don't really want to buy a Garmin phone to talk to my Garmin watch so I can buy into their ecosystem. Apple watches may be fantastic but there are still better dedicated fitness watches out there and frankly the idea of a watch dictating my cellphone choice (as the Apple Watch does) makes me completely reject the idea of buying that watch.

rstupek 6y ago
I think the ecosystem being referred to isn't the device ecosystem but the "social network" sharing ecosystem
- newsclues 6y ago
  How long until device and social media networks are linked?
  - lancesells 6y ago
    They already are aren't they? Most social networks launch on iOS only at the beginning.
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    Oculus and Facebook is an indication of something like that; can't use your Oculus without your Facebook account.
- technofiend 6y ago
  Oh, you're right. I see that now. Having said that Apple isn't really big on cross-platform features either. I don't see a Facetime Android client, for example, and have no expectation they'd make Apple Fitness+ work on anything but their own devices; after all the byline is "Apple Fitness+ ... powered by Apple Watch." And since the watch requires their phone that's a big investment if you just want to exercise with friends.

zozin 6y ago

I don't really see Apple Fitness+ and Peloton as competitors. First, the Peloton bike/equipment is both targeted at and only really make sense for the 1%. Apple's hardware is a few hundred bucks and has insane usability beyond Fitness+. If you're speaking about just the apps and not hardware, again, I don't think they're direct competitors. Peloton's app sans Peloton hardware is basically just YouTube videos... There are dozens of content producers that cater to everyone's style or form of working out. Why pay Peloton $13/mo. just to get into the ecosystem? An ecosystem that was designed from the ground-up for people who make +$100K/yr., so the average American probably doesn't have friends who are using Peloton's app. Apple Fitness+ on the other-hand is designed to work in tandem with your cheapish Apple Watch. The fusion between hardware and software is where the magic happens. Peloton doesn't have that unless you have a spare bedroom + $3,000 to spend on fitness upfront.

nradov 6y ago

Tonal and Zwift are also trying to build the same sort of fitness ecosystems as Peleton. Tonal has a wall mounted display for weight training with instructors. Zwift is designing their own smart bike (and maybe a treadmill too). Too early to say if they'll succeed.

clairity 6y ago

it's not just ecosystem => network effects => winner take all. apple is trying to skim the cream off the top with fitness+ like they did with music and itunes, but the market characteristics are different here. first, the market opportunity is much smaller. everyone listens to music (and has a phone nowadays). that's a huge reachable market. only the well-off will pay for fitness+, so you're looking at <20% of everyone to start. second, music was already in the transition from physical (cd's) to digital (mp3's) to streaming (just waiting for high-speed internet penetration). the fitness market is not in that same transition. it's still constrained by the physical world, no matter how 'social' it gets. third, peloton's hardware is what makes the ecosystem, not the other way around (which is apple's strategy). it creates a halo of influence around the purchaser through price and product that apple simply can't replicate with just an apple tv, a watch, and a subscription. (i don't like peloton personally, but the market dynamics here are recognizable) i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has narrow appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or differentiation. zooming out, apple's "plus" strategy overall strays away from their strength in hardware-based consumer products, and i'm skeptical they can differentiate enough to retain that business long term, whereas homekit, carkit, and the like couch very neatly into that strength, and likely represents durable future expansion.

Jtsummers 6y ago
> i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has narrow appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or differentiation. Fitness+ comes with one of the tiers of Apple One. That makes it "free" to the user. Let's say you only wanted Music, TV+, and the storage (especially useful if you have multiple iDevices in your family and you want cloud backup): Music - $9.99 individual, or $14.99 family TV+ - $4.99 (already at $20 for a family here) 2TB Storage - $9.99 (now we're at $30) So Fitness+, News+, and Arcade are "free" additions if you get Apple One Premier. Of course, you need an Apple Watch to use Fitness+ but you can use it with any garage sale treadmill, bike, rowing machine, yoga mat, dumbbell set, etc. And if you have the Apple Watch you've already been able to drop things like Runkeeper and Strava for tracking running and cycling.
- batter 6y ago

TameAntelope 6y ago

The other article on the front page must make you feel pretty correct, then! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577

dkrich 6y ago

I don’t think this is a controversial take. Most everyone buying a Peloton is doing so because of the classes, the bike is just a status symbol.

gumby 6y ago

That's true, and what makes this decision so foolish. By raising the bar slightly they are inducing some people to choose Fitness+. Avoiding this is why Apple made the iPod compatible with Windows. Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple has had its own music products for longer than Spotify has been around.

kitsunesoba 6y ago
> Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple has had its own music products for longer than Spotify has been around. Some portion of Spotify's success, I'd argue, is that they were the first successful entrant in the streaming space. The product isn't particularly remarkable compared to other options and in fact has some notable downsides (such as its ever-changing-for-unclear-reasons UI) but it's what people know and thus what people use. It having a free ad-supported plan is also a massive factor, but I suppose that would fall under "lowering the bar".
- ksec 6y ago
  >The product isn't particularly remarkable compared to other options It is not that Spotify is exceptionally good, it is just the others are comically bad.
  - foobiter 6y ago
    initially, but i’ve tried them all and they’re essentially the same now - opted for Tidal due to the higher quality streams, even after years of listening on Spotify recommendations have been very similar too

nnlsoccer 6y ago

Phase 3: Connection of all Apple health fitness tracking/health tracking data. As wearables and body data monitoring continue to evolve and increase the number of bio markers/biometrics measured, apple is poised to integrate these in a way that Peloton and other fitness focused brands may or may not be.

ksec 6y ago
Phase 4: Those aggregate data from Millions of users provides additional insight that is only available from Apple. Health Insurance with these Data ( and your consent to use it ) will get better offers and Apple gets commissions. ( Services Revenue )
- nnlsoccer 6y ago
  Agreed. That is certainly the dark side of that path. From a user/patient perspective, the interesting side of that equation might be a world where those biometrics are tracked and integrated (with your consent) with an EHR so that your doctor can see continuous metrics in a way that is actionable for clinical decision making.

et-al 6y ago

> Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of Fitness We definitely saw this with Nike+ back in the late naughts [0]. Then Strava in the mid-teens, and now Peloton. Competitive people want to compete with their friends, not just against themselves. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike%2B https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike%2B

_the_inflator 6y ago

I totally agree. Also Corona: Outdoor sports is one of the few accepted social activities, at least in some parts.

xbar 6y ago
Surges coincide.

shoulderfake 6y ago

Here's what I know: Nobody that's legit fit has a peloton. They train on their own in the gym or they do crossfit. This is apart from the people I know who play sports competitively. What does Peloton give you that crossfit doesnt?

voisin 6y ago

I agree with you and find it interesting that (so far) Apple is leaving actual equipment (beyond the watch) outside of its usual close integration of hardware and software. Users need 3rd party equipment (treadmill or rower or bike) for 3 of the exercises (which are likely the most popular exercises on Fitness+). Currently outside of very expensive commercial equipment with GymKit, there are no good options and it honestly leads to a horrible experience using 3rd party apps or missing key information (cadence, strokes per minute, etc) from your workout in Apple Health. I am hopeful Apple pushes hard on GymKit in retail equipment otherwise I think Peloton’s ecosystem will prevail. It just works.