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Peloton cuts back on Apple Watch support

189 points by uptown 6y ago

Qahlel 6y ago
Apple might have changed terms or told them to change something and that might be why.
- badwolf 6y ago
  Or as the article suggests, Peloton is going to make and push their own smartwatch
- dhimes 6y ago
  Or, they may be watching what Apple is doing and seeing that working off of the Apple platform puts them at risk somehow. IOW, because of Apple's reputation they may be looking to hedge against a possible change in terms. That may have influenced their decision to market their own watch as well.
bombcar 6y ago
Isn’t Apple now directly competing with Peloton with Apple Fitness?
- Ensorceled 6y ago
  Is Apple Computers competing with Peleton bikes or their treadmills? Everyone is trying to be megacorp these days.
  - f6v 6y ago
    > Everyone is trying to be megacorp these days. Been playing Rome: Total War for the past few days. It going me thinking that empire just can’t stop expanding. You conquer one province, thinking that barbarian neighbor won’t be a problem ever again. But then you realize your empire now borders some other barbarians who start harassing you. And then you need more troops to keep the new citizens from rioting. Which requires money, which means the drums of war are at it again...
    - mcculley 6y ago
      There are less violent forces behind expansion. Shareholders prefer to invest in companies that are growing. Employees want to work in organizations where they can be promoted.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > empire just can’t stop expanding You’re identifying a deficiency of imperial systems. They were one of the only ways to get growth in our close to zero sum past. In a world with a growing global economy, on the other hand, warring and imperialism are self-defeating long run strategies.
      - vinceguidry 6y ago
        No, they work just as well as they always do. It's just easier to run in to a bigger, badder imperium.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > they work just as well as they always do Objectively, no. They don't. You can't capture the intangible capital of a country through invasion. The greater the ratio of intangible capital (skills, trust, institutions, et cetera) to tangible capital, the less effective classical empires become. Resource-rich countries, on the other hand, are still subject to imperial dynamics.
        vinceguidry 6y ago
        It happened last century, when the Communists kicked the Nationalists out of mainland China.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > when the Communists kicked the Nationalists out of mainland China That's revolution, not imperialism.
  - atestu 6y ago
    Apple stopped being "Apple Computers" 14 years ago. They're explicitly a mobile devices company, and fitness fits perfectly into that mission I think.
    - Ensorceled 6y ago
      That was my point: both of these companies have expanded well beyond their initial purpose and now overlap. If you look at their origins, there is no overlap at all.
    - semanticHurt 6y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness Has CPU, memory, storage, and is user programmable. Smells like a computer to me. The first “computers” were people. A pedant might say the entire industry moved on from “computers”.
      - madeofpalk 6y ago
        No, Apple Computers legally changed their company name to just Apple many years ago after they introduced the iPhone.
        semanticHurt 6y ago
        A legal name change means they stopped making “computers” from an engineers perspective? Banal political filings have little bearing on what makes a computer.
        mmmmmbop 6y ago
        No one claimed Apple stopped making computers, so you're attacking a straw man here. All that was pointed out is that there is no Apple Computer (note the capitalization) company anymore, as it was renamed to Apple Inc. in 2007.
        6y ago
- alistairSH 6y ago
  Yes, sort of... Apple Fitness is fitness videos, using the Apple Watch to track HR and other stats, with Apple's Health app used to view info later. Peloton does the same, but also has bike hardware as the foundation of their experience. If Peloton releases a fitness watch, then in addition to competing on fitness videos, they begin competing on the watch. At that point, Peloton's only unique offering (WRT Apple) is the bike.
  - mcintyre1994 6y ago
    Peloton also have a much cheaper (than the bike/tread membership) video-only product for strength training/HIIT/yoga etc. which is pretty directly competing with Apple Fitness. It's a similar price, though they do still differentiate by having live classes and instructor overlap with the bike/tread side.
- thrav 6y ago
  It feels more likely that Apple disallowed their other classes (since Apple has their own offering) than Peloton decided to disable some tracking, but not all tracking.
londons_explore 6y ago
Apple watch seems to have declined in use... I can see why companies don't want to put too much effort into supporting it.
- voisin 6y ago
  /s I assume?
  - Disruptive_Dave 6y ago
    I took it seriously at first. Anecdotally, I see them being worn much less by my peers than 2-3 years ago. Cool/newness factor died, IMO. Then I looked at stats: > Apple shipped 7.6 million smartwatches worldwide in the first quarter of 2020, according to recent data from Strategy Analytics, an increase of 23% compared to 6.2 million in the first quarter of 2019. As such, Apple now claims 55% of the smartwatch market, representing a slight increase from the 54% it controlled in the same period one year ago, according to the research firm. [0] [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-watch-sales-numbers-strong-despite-coronavirus-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-watch-sales-numbers-st... Also: https://www.statista.com/chart/15035/worldwide-smartwatch-shipments/ https://www.statista.com/chart/15035/worldwide-smartwatch-sh...
    - Ensorceled 6y ago
      While the coolness factor has gone down (anecdotally, I've gone back to wearing a nice watch when out on date or something; or I would if going out was still a thing) people are still using the Apple watch for everything else. I've had both a Polar and Garmin watch and neither were close to my Apple 3 for GPS accuracy or heart rate. My wife has a 2020 Garmin and we stand around waiting for her watch to get all of it's "bars"
      - oldprogrammer2 6y ago
        I traded out my Apple Watch for the Garmin Forerunner 245 (2019), and couldn't be happier. The newer Apple Watches may have improved on these since I had an Apple Watch 3. * The 245 locks GPS really, really fast. I never have to wait for it. Much, much faster than my older 630. The Apple Watch doesn't even tell you if it has locked a signal. I think it would lock fast if I had my phone with me, since it would use the phone's GPS to save watch battery, but I think it would be confused if I left my phone in the house while stepping out the front door for a run. * The 245 has physical buttons that reliably work with sweaty fingers in the summer and with gloves in the winter. So many times I couldn't stop a workout on the Apple Watch because of the swipe needed. * Display is always on, no need to raise my arm directly in front of my face to turn it on. Too many times I had to raise or twist my arm multiple times to see my pace with Apple.
skc 6y ago
The article speculates that Peleton might be planning on launching their own smartwatch. That doesn't sound like anything that could possibly end well.
- twobitshifter 6y ago
  Right, based on this acquisition https://atlaswearables.com/ https://atlaswearables.com/ The article indicated that people were buying Apple watches specifically for use with Peloton, so there does seem to be at least some market there. By disabling Apple Watch, those people won’t have an alternative option.
  - toxik 6y ago
    If I bought a product for a specific feature and that company then removes that feature, I would absolutely not want to buy their new product - out of spite, in part, but it also just seems like an unwise investment
    - thies226j 6y ago
      I don’t know about the US, but in Germany taking away a key feature from people who paid for said feature without compensation is enough for a big lawsuit.
      - Leparamour 6y ago
        >in Germany taking away a key feature from people who paid for said feature without compensation is enough for a big lawsuit. Germany isn't exactly famous for harsh rulings on companies' unlawful activities.
    - jen20 6y ago
      I’ll go one further: I ordered the plus version of the bike, and the sales guy spent a good 50% of the upswell from the regular bike explaining about the Apple Watch support. I’ll be cancelling the order (before it’s even been delivered) now, and probably never considering another product from them.
danShumway 6y ago
Insert standard Cory Doctorow style rant about how if Peleton had Open APIs on its devices and its services, anyone could add Apple Watch support without their permission. From the article: > But even if it is planning a release later this year, taking away some of the Apple support now could be a strategic tactic to help early adoption. Is this the type of competition that's good for consumers? Is this a good market outcome that we like to see happening? Or would it be better if Peleton was forced to compete by adding new features to their own smartwatch rather than taking features away from every other platform/device?
- Lio 6y ago
  To honest "Peloton"* seems a pretty poor solution to indoor cycling training when compared to smart trainers and smart bikes from the likes of Wahoo, Tacx and Wattbike. All of those can be connected to simulators like Zwift or a host of others and provide way more training options than you can get on a high priced, proprietary "Peloton" spinning bike no real ergo features. For example, if you want to ride in an actual indoor peloton simulation and make use of drafting for fun and profit, you want something like a Tacx Neo running Zwift ...IMHO. If you ditch "Peloton" and go with what the pros train on you can use any smart watch you like. * It's in quotes because peloton is a common word in wide usage in cycling and this company, "Peloton", has tried to trademark it. They've spent a not inconsiderable amount of time and money threatening bloggers using it in it's true meaning.
  - unexpected 6y ago
    Peloton is a great solution to 90% of the market. 90% of the market just wants simple exercise classes with energetic instructors. An actual indoor peloton simulation, with drafting is definitely superior on Zwift. 90% of people don't want this - the target market is very small and doesn't make sense. This is fine! Leaves room for smaller players.
    - s17n 6y ago
      I think the number you want is closer to 99.99%.
alistairSH 6y ago
This is why I bought a Wahoo Kickr. Mostly open platform, I can use it with whatever apps I want (Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc). And at a fraction of the cost.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  > And at a fraction of the cost Maybe a fraction of the money, but you still pay for that cost elsewhere, mainly in terms of convenience. Of course with something so integrated like Peloton, you pay in lack of extensibility.
  - ubermonkey 6y ago
    Not really. A Wahoo KICKR costs WAY WAY less than a Peloton. The KICKR Snap is even lower. The hardware itself has no subscription fee. They integrate with the training platform or platforms of your choice. And the integration is super solid. You pretty much just turn on the trainer, and open up (eg) Zwift on your iPad, and you're off to the races. Source: I am a serious cyclist, and use these things 3-4 times a week.
    - madeofpalk 6y ago
      Well, you've got to pay for a bike as well, because the kikr doesn't come with it. Or use the same bike you're using outside for normal riding and faff around with mounting it each time you want to use it. What I'm saying is that Peloton is a whole integrated experience which has, in some regards, more conveniences. Some people value that.
      - ubermonkey 6y ago
        KICKR, not kikr. If all you want to do is ride inside, you can get an entry-level aluminum road bike for $900 new, or about half that used. The upgrades you get on nicer bikes are things that don't tend to show up for inside riding. The entry level KIKR is $500. So, yeah, still WAY cheaper than Peloton, even with an entry-level bike, which was the original point. As for mounting, the entry-level models are actually EASIER to deal with for this than the nicer ones. The higher-end KICKRs are "wheel-off" trainers that mount directly to the bike and have their own rear cassette. This is better for lots of reasons (stability, power accuracy, plus no need for a "trainer tire"), but mounting is more of a chore because you have to deal with the chain. The lower end models are "wheel-on" trainers that have a resistance wheel that you spin with the real bike wheel. Mounting is a sub-1-minute operation. Most serious outdoor riders even up just keeping an older bike on their trainers, sure, and I mostly do that, but my wife also uses our KICKR, so there's still swapping to do. It's really no big deal. I expect it's only slightly more difficult than changing the adjustments on a Peloton between riders, to be honest.
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
I suspect readers here are more likely to be big Apple fans than big Peloton fans. The people I've met who own Pelotons love them SOOO much. I believe they'd buy a Peloton fitness tracker / smartwatch. I believe it's the brand they value most even over Apple. People who value fitness (and their Pelotons) don't overlap highly with the people who value whatever it is Apple is good at (hardware? Idk, it's not ux for sure)
yalogin 6y ago
I don't see how Peloton is going to win this in the long run. Strategically a bad move IMO. May be because I still see Peloton as more closer to a fad than something sustainable. They did well to make bank at the right time and go public. However its their game to lose. A competitor will do a solid integration with the Apple watch and get promoted in the Apple Store and the site and it will automatically boost their credibility among the same people that buy Pelotons. It will slowly eat away at their base.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  Imo Peloton has more to worry about with Oculus Quest 2 and the upcoming generation of VR
  - madeofpalk 6y ago
    As an owner of both, I can't agree.
    - FpUser 6y ago
      Not Peloton but I have smart bike trainer and familiar with related software (zwift, RGT, tacx etc). My experience: using VR set the way they make them now is extremely uncomfortable on a bike trainer. And yes it will drown headset in sweat and kill it in no time.
      - chaostheory 6y ago
        > And yes it will drown headset in sweat and kill it in no time. Is this from personal experience or just conjecture? Because this is not common problem. Also this is what towels are for. You can also have interchangeable padding to either be more absorbent of sweat or less depending your preferences.
        kingosticks 6y ago
        Are you saying that sweating prefusably on an indoor cycling trainer is not a common problem? I must be misunderstanding. I'd need to have a couple of these absorbant interchangable sweat pads for an hours workout if I wanted this thing to have any chance of staying in place. And cleaning it afterwards would be a must, even so it sounds absolutely grim after a few uses. Plus they are pretty uncomfortable (my experience). I suppose it might be tolerable if I was just lightly spinning through a magical VR world enjoying the views. But I'd rather be using regular Zwift and getting fit.
deleted 6y ago
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Johnny555 6y ago
The proprietary nature of Peloton is a big reason why I didn't get one -- if you want any fitness tracking at all, you have to pay their $39/month fee. Plus I didn't want a bike with a big expensive display that's going to need to be replaced some day. I went with Keiser, which I pair with my Garmin watch for tracking. But Peloton still gets some money from me since I use their $14.99/mo (edit: the app is $12.99/mo, with tax I pay $14.30) standalone app for workouts.
- bighitbiker3 6y ago
  Yep in the exact same boat as you. Went with the M3i and pair it with the Peloton standalone app for classes. Have been meaning to try out Zwift but I've started running more due to the nicer weather. Eventually! Many of my friends went with the Peloton and swear by it. If you're fine being platform-locked for $39/mo it's a great option. The bike is quality, the classes are amazing, and the peer competition is motivating. All that wasn't for me though.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Johnny555 6y ago
    The problem for me wasn't just the $39/mo, that's still mildly affordable, but figured if Peloton raises the fee, there's not much I can do about it since I'm locked in. Since I use the standalone Peloton app with my Keiser, if Peloton raises their fee I can easily switch to another one.
- dkrich 6y ago
  I got a Keiser, too, mostly because the Peloton wasn’t available for like 10 months when I wanted one, but also for the money the Keiser is a much higher quality bike plus you have the flexibility of using Zwift or other apps. I currently use the Peloton app for 100% of my rides, but I hate the idea of spending $2500+ for a piece of equipment that I’ll probably never replace and being locked into their ecosystem and not having any choice (it’s not an iPhone that I’m going to replace every two years because it has better and better features- it’s a stationary bike). I suspect they recognize that the TAM for bikes is pretty well saturated and need to look elsewhere for opportunities. I have a Fitbit because all I wanted was a fitness tracker, not a fully functional smart watch, but the ability to use it for my workouts is important. But it does a decent enough job of tracking effort just based on heart rate without knowing every detail of resistance, cadence, etc.
throwawaysea 6y ago
That is a very anti consumer move, especially considering many people bought their new bikes with expectations about integration with apple’s gym kit.
varispeed 6y ago
GDPR mandates data portability so that users can move their data easily from one system to another. So is this even legal?
- throwaway98797 6y ago
  yes
kbos87 6y ago
How hard it is to connect even the first generation bike to a watch or heart rate monitor is ridiculous to the point that I’ve never figured it out. It seems confirmed impossible with an Apple Watch; supposedly it’s possible with other brands but was prohibitively difficult with my Garmin. Agree that this is short sighted and a game they can’t win. My watch works perfectly fine for me without being connected to the bike; they lose for not ingesting my heart rate data.
hastes 6y ago
Why doesn't Apple just buy Peloton and add it to the vast network of Apple products that they can slowly kill and release a better version like they did with Beats?
- sneak 6y ago
  My theory is that Apple isn't that into low-differentiation devices that aren't directly related to their core businesses. Beats were on the forefront of wireless headphones, which ties nicely into iTunes/etc. While Apple is super into fitness now (because of the watch, as well as the Peloton-style recurring revenue subscription market) the Peloton stuff isn't really groundbreaking hardware: it's an unremarkable bike with an unremarkable display bolted on to it, with an unremarkable app that runs on it, and a remarkable marketing/astroturfing campaign to drive the wheel. The hardware brand itself isn't that valuable, IMO. Perhaps the subscription revenue is, but Apple doesn't need Peloton's undifferentiated bike or brand name to participate in that market, and has world-class marketers of their own. Apple probably won't make exercise hardware unless they can make exercise hardware vastly better than what is presently available. Peloton is not that.
  - djrogers 6y ago
    Apple bought Beats for their streaming service - the headphones were a nice side bonus.
hullo 6y ago
If true, an interesting move; failing to account for the possibility of the iPad dominating the tablet market essentially sunk Peloton President William Lynch's run at Barnes & Noble when they invested too heavily in the production of first party Nook tablets. Those Nook tablets were actually a great product, far superior to the Fire tablets Amazon was eventually able to muscle in to their own niche, but it didn't ultimately mean that much in the face of Apple's domination.
- tmpz22 6y ago
  I'm a dissatisfied apple watch owner. The battery is basically gone after a year and a half, and while some of the first party apps are cool, third party apps underperform with only a specter of the feature sets they have on other devices - likely due to constraints with the hardware and software. Syncing music is a absolute travesty taking 4+ hours to sync even a modest catalogue. The official debugging forums are themselves an 8th circle of hell. It does not feel like Apple cares enough about the watch relative to its other businesses. If they did they wouldn't have shipped a device that should probably be in beta. If I was a partner firm I would not invest significantly in the watch platform. Maybe in a 4+ years, but I really doubt it.
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    I stream my music collection from the internet on my watch and it’s instant. I don’t know why you are trying to follow a pattern from 1995 and wondering why we don’t do that anymore.
    - Jtsummers 6y ago
      One of the selling points of the Apple Watch is being able to use it (though not own it since it needs an iPhone at some point) in isolation. Having to stream content isn't always an option or isn't the best option. I use mine on my runs, but it has no cellular data of its own so I downloaded music and audiobooks to it. Even if it did have cellular data, streaming the music would drain the battery even faster since I'd be using every capability: health stat monitoring, bluetooth, GPS, and cellular data.
kart23 6y ago
Doesn't Peloton still have ANT+? Plus a lot of other gym equipment uses ANT+ too, I can't understand why the apple watch doesn't have this functionality.
- FPGAhacker 6y ago
  I don’t know either, but you can apparently work around it via an iPhone app.
gbourne 6y ago
Wow! I just ordered the Bike+, coming May 22nd. A big reason was the Apple Watch integration. I might just get the bike (cheaper and can get in a week) or cancel the entire order.
mdoms 6y ago
Do people know you can just go for a run or cycle. You don't even need to pay someone, just go and do it.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
  Where I live it rains every other day and there aren't any interesting places to cycle.
- quenix 6y ago
  Not everyone is in a position where they can do that.
Colin_Jenkins 6y ago
sorry website servers were overloaded at Connect The Watts. It should be back up soon. In the meantime, you can find a video version of the article here: https://youtu.be/858l-fBoZN0 https://youtu.be/858l-fBoZN0
- Colin_Jenkins 6y ago
  ok should be back up and working now!
ShakataGaNai 6y ago
I find the video amusing as the dude calls it the "annoying toy tactic". aka when parents conveniently "lose" a very annoying toy a child might have. However the correct term for this, I think, is "bait and switch". When you buy a tech product and it has a feature that is arbitrarily taken away from you. Frankly it should be illegal. Lots of companies have done this and will continue to do it until they can't.
unixhero 6y ago
So glad I went agnostic and got the Technogym bike.
jb775 6y ago
Sounds like Apple is trying to leech off the success of any company making money off Apple product owners.
boringg 6y ago
This is just annoying as someone who likes both products.
davidu 6y ago
If this is Peloton's choice, it's a bad one, and potentially fatal. Not supporting Apple Health was what killed FitBit, so hopefully Peloton avoids learning this lesson the hard way.

189 points by uptown 6y ago

Qahlel 6y ago

Apple might have changed terms or told them to change something and that might be why.

badwolf 6y ago
Or as the article suggests, Peloton is going to make and push their own smartwatch
dhimes 6y ago
Or, they may be watching what Apple is doing and seeing that working off of the Apple platform puts them at risk somehow. IOW, because of Apple's reputation they may be looking to hedge against a possible change in terms. That may have influenced their decision to market their own watch as well.

bombcar 6y ago

Isn’t Apple now directly competing with Peloton with Apple Fitness?

Ensorceled 6y ago
Is Apple Computers competing with Peleton bikes or their treadmills? Everyone is trying to be megacorp these days.
- f6v 6y ago
  > Everyone is trying to be megacorp these days. Been playing Rome: Total War for the past few days. It going me thinking that empire just can’t stop expanding. You conquer one province, thinking that barbarian neighbor won’t be a problem ever again. But then you realize your empire now borders some other barbarians who start harassing you. And then you need more troops to keep the new citizens from rioting. Which requires money, which means the drums of war are at it again...
  - mcculley 6y ago
    There are less violent forces behind expansion. Shareholders prefer to invest in companies that are growing. Employees want to work in organizations where they can be promoted.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > empire just can’t stop expanding You’re identifying a deficiency of imperial systems. They were one of the only ways to get growth in our close to zero sum past. In a world with a growing global economy, on the other hand, warring and imperialism are self-defeating long run strategies.
    - vinceguidry 6y ago
      No, they work just as well as they always do. It's just easier to run in to a bigger, badder imperium.
      - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > they work just as well as they always do Objectively, no. They don't. You can't capture the intangible capital of a country through invasion. The greater the ratio of intangible capital (skills, trust, institutions, et cetera) to tangible capital, the less effective classical empires become. Resource-rich countries, on the other hand, are still subject to imperial dynamics.
        vinceguidry 6y ago
        It happened last century, when the Communists kicked the Nationalists out of mainland China.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > when the Communists kicked the Nationalists out of mainland China That's revolution, not imperialism.
- atestu 6y ago
  Apple stopped being "Apple Computers" 14 years ago. They're explicitly a mobile devices company, and fitness fits perfectly into that mission I think.
  - Ensorceled 6y ago
    That was my point: both of these companies have expanded well beyond their initial purpose and now overlap. If you look at their origins, there is no overlap at all.
  - semanticHurt 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness Has CPU, memory, storage, and is user programmable. Smells like a computer to me. The first “computers” were people. A pedant might say the entire industry moved on from “computers”.
    - madeofpalk 6y ago
      No, Apple Computers legally changed their company name to just Apple many years ago after they introduced the iPhone.
      - semanticHurt 6y ago
        A legal name change means they stopped making “computers” from an engineers perspective? Banal political filings have little bearing on what makes a computer.
        mmmmmbop 6y ago
        No one claimed Apple stopped making computers, so you're attacking a straw man here. All that was pointed out is that there is no Apple Computer (note the capitalization) company anymore, as it was renamed to Apple Inc. in 2007.
        6y ago
alistairSH 6y ago
Yes, sort of... Apple Fitness is fitness videos, using the Apple Watch to track HR and other stats, with Apple's Health app used to view info later. Peloton does the same, but also has bike hardware as the foundation of their experience. If Peloton releases a fitness watch, then in addition to competing on fitness videos, they begin competing on the watch. At that point, Peloton's only unique offering (WRT Apple) is the bike.
- mcintyre1994 6y ago
  Peloton also have a much cheaper (than the bike/tread membership) video-only product for strength training/HIIT/yoga etc. which is pretty directly competing with Apple Fitness. It's a similar price, though they do still differentiate by having live classes and instructor overlap with the bike/tread side.
thrav 6y ago
It feels more likely that Apple disallowed their other classes (since Apple has their own offering) than Peloton decided to disable some tracking, but not all tracking.

londons_explore 6y ago

Apple watch seems to have declined in use... I can see why companies don't want to put too much effort into supporting it.

voisin 6y ago
/s I assume?
- Disruptive_Dave 6y ago
  I took it seriously at first. Anecdotally, I see them being worn much less by my peers than 2-3 years ago. Cool/newness factor died, IMO. Then I looked at stats: > Apple shipped 7.6 million smartwatches worldwide in the first quarter of 2020, according to recent data from Strategy Analytics, an increase of 23% compared to 6.2 million in the first quarter of 2019. As such, Apple now claims 55% of the smartwatch market, representing a slight increase from the 54% it controlled in the same period one year ago, according to the research firm. [0] [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-watch-sales-numbers-strong-despite-coronavirus-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-watch-sales-numbers-st... Also: https://www.statista.com/chart/15035/worldwide-smartwatch-shipments/ https://www.statista.com/chart/15035/worldwide-smartwatch-sh...
  - Ensorceled 6y ago
    While the coolness factor has gone down (anecdotally, I've gone back to wearing a nice watch when out on date or something; or I would if going out was still a thing) people are still using the Apple watch for everything else. I've had both a Polar and Garmin watch and neither were close to my Apple 3 for GPS accuracy or heart rate. My wife has a 2020 Garmin and we stand around waiting for her watch to get all of it's "bars"
    - oldprogrammer2 6y ago
      I traded out my Apple Watch for the Garmin Forerunner 245 (2019), and couldn't be happier. The newer Apple Watches may have improved on these since I had an Apple Watch 3. * The 245 locks GPS really, really fast. I never have to wait for it. Much, much faster than my older 630. The Apple Watch doesn't even tell you if it has locked a signal. I think it would lock fast if I had my phone with me, since it would use the phone's GPS to save watch battery, but I think it would be confused if I left my phone in the house while stepping out the front door for a run. * The 245 has physical buttons that reliably work with sweaty fingers in the summer and with gloves in the winter. So many times I couldn't stop a workout on the Apple Watch because of the swipe needed. * Display is always on, no need to raise my arm directly in front of my face to turn it on. Too many times I had to raise or twist my arm multiple times to see my pace with Apple.

skc 6y ago

The article speculates that Peleton might be planning on launching their own smartwatch. That doesn't sound like anything that could possibly end well.

twobitshifter 6y ago
Right, based on this acquisition https://atlaswearables.com/ https://atlaswearables.com/ The article indicated that people were buying Apple watches specifically for use with Peloton, so there does seem to be at least some market there. By disabling Apple Watch, those people won’t have an alternative option.
- toxik 6y ago
  If I bought a product for a specific feature and that company then removes that feature, I would absolutely not want to buy their new product - out of spite, in part, but it also just seems like an unwise investment
  - thies226j 6y ago
    I don’t know about the US, but in Germany taking away a key feature from people who paid for said feature without compensation is enough for a big lawsuit.
    - Leparamour 6y ago
      >in Germany taking away a key feature from people who paid for said feature without compensation is enough for a big lawsuit. Germany isn't exactly famous for harsh rulings on companies' unlawful activities.
  - jen20 6y ago
    I’ll go one further: I ordered the plus version of the bike, and the sales guy spent a good 50% of the upswell from the regular bike explaining about the Apple Watch support. I’ll be cancelling the order (before it’s even been delivered) now, and probably never considering another product from them.

danShumway 6y ago

Insert standard Cory Doctorow style rant about how if Peleton had Open APIs on its devices and its services, anyone could add Apple Watch support without their permission. From the article: > But even if it is planning a release later this year, taking away some of the Apple support now could be a strategic tactic to help early adoption. Is this the type of competition that's good for consumers? Is this a good market outcome that we like to see happening? Or would it be better if Peleton was forced to compete by adding new features to their own smartwatch rather than taking features away from every other platform/device?

Lio 6y ago
To honest "Peloton"* seems a pretty poor solution to indoor cycling training when compared to smart trainers and smart bikes from the likes of Wahoo, Tacx and Wattbike. All of those can be connected to simulators like Zwift or a host of others and provide way more training options than you can get on a high priced, proprietary "Peloton" spinning bike no real ergo features. For example, if you want to ride in an actual indoor peloton simulation and make use of drafting for fun and profit, you want something like a Tacx Neo running Zwift ...IMHO. If you ditch "Peloton" and go with what the pros train on you can use any smart watch you like. * It's in quotes because peloton is a common word in wide usage in cycling and this company, "Peloton", has tried to trademark it. They've spent a not inconsiderable amount of time and money threatening bloggers using it in it's true meaning.
- unexpected 6y ago
  Peloton is a great solution to 90% of the market. 90% of the market just wants simple exercise classes with energetic instructors. An actual indoor peloton simulation, with drafting is definitely superior on Zwift. 90% of people don't want this - the target market is very small and doesn't make sense. This is fine! Leaves room for smaller players.
  - s17n 6y ago
    I think the number you want is closer to 99.99%.

alistairSH 6y ago

This is why I bought a Wahoo Kickr. Mostly open platform, I can use it with whatever apps I want (Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc). And at a fraction of the cost.

madeofpalk 6y ago
> And at a fraction of the cost Maybe a fraction of the money, but you still pay for that cost elsewhere, mainly in terms of convenience. Of course with something so integrated like Peloton, you pay in lack of extensibility.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  Not really. A Wahoo KICKR costs WAY WAY less than a Peloton. The KICKR Snap is even lower. The hardware itself has no subscription fee. They integrate with the training platform or platforms of your choice. And the integration is super solid. You pretty much just turn on the trainer, and open up (eg) Zwift on your iPad, and you're off to the races. Source: I am a serious cyclist, and use these things 3-4 times a week.
  - madeofpalk 6y ago
    Well, you've got to pay for a bike as well, because the kikr doesn't come with it. Or use the same bike you're using outside for normal riding and faff around with mounting it each time you want to use it. What I'm saying is that Peloton is a whole integrated experience which has, in some regards, more conveniences. Some people value that.
    - ubermonkey 6y ago
      KICKR, not kikr. If all you want to do is ride inside, you can get an entry-level aluminum road bike for $900 new, or about half that used. The upgrades you get on nicer bikes are things that don't tend to show up for inside riding. The entry level KIKR is $500. So, yeah, still WAY cheaper than Peloton, even with an entry-level bike, which was the original point. As for mounting, the entry-level models are actually EASIER to deal with for this than the nicer ones. The higher-end KICKRs are "wheel-off" trainers that mount directly to the bike and have their own rear cassette. This is better for lots of reasons (stability, power accuracy, plus no need for a "trainer tire"), but mounting is more of a chore because you have to deal with the chain. The lower end models are "wheel-on" trainers that have a resistance wheel that you spin with the real bike wheel. Mounting is a sub-1-minute operation. Most serious outdoor riders even up just keeping an older bike on their trainers, sure, and I mostly do that, but my wife also uses our KICKR, so there's still swapping to do. It's really no big deal. I expect it's only slightly more difficult than changing the adjustments on a Peloton between riders, to be honest.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago

I suspect readers here are more likely to be big Apple fans than big Peloton fans. The people I've met who own Pelotons love them SOOO much. I believe they'd buy a Peloton fitness tracker / smartwatch. I believe it's the brand they value most even over Apple. People who value fitness (and their Pelotons) don't overlap highly with the people who value whatever it is Apple is good at (hardware? Idk, it's not ux for sure)

yalogin 6y ago

I don't see how Peloton is going to win this in the long run. Strategically a bad move IMO. May be because I still see Peloton as more closer to a fad than something sustainable. They did well to make bank at the right time and go public. However its their game to lose. A competitor will do a solid integration with the Apple watch and get promoted in the Apple Store and the site and it will automatically boost their credibility among the same people that buy Pelotons. It will slowly eat away at their base.

chaostheory 6y ago
Imo Peloton has more to worry about with Oculus Quest 2 and the upcoming generation of VR
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  As an owner of both, I can't agree.
  - FpUser 6y ago
    Not Peloton but I have smart bike trainer and familiar with related software (zwift, RGT, tacx etc). My experience: using VR set the way they make them now is extremely uncomfortable on a bike trainer. And yes it will drown headset in sweat and kill it in no time.
    - chaostheory 6y ago
      > And yes it will drown headset in sweat and kill it in no time. Is this from personal experience or just conjecture? Because this is not common problem. Also this is what towels are for. You can also have interchangeable padding to either be more absorbent of sweat or less depending your preferences.
      - kingosticks 6y ago
        Are you saying that sweating prefusably on an indoor cycling trainer is not a common problem? I must be misunderstanding. I'd need to have a couple of these absorbant interchangable sweat pads for an hours workout if I wanted this thing to have any chance of staying in place. And cleaning it afterwards would be a must, even so it sounds absolutely grim after a few uses. Plus they are pretty uncomfortable (my experience). I suppose it might be tolerable if I was just lightly spinning through a magical VR world enjoying the views. But I'd rather be using regular Zwift and getting fit.

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Johnny555 6y ago

The proprietary nature of Peloton is a big reason why I didn't get one -- if you want any fitness tracking at all, you have to pay their $39/month fee. Plus I didn't want a bike with a big expensive display that's going to need to be replaced some day. I went with Keiser, which I pair with my Garmin watch for tracking. But Peloton still gets some money from me since I use their $14.99/mo (edit: the app is $12.99/mo, with tax I pay $14.30) standalone app for workouts.

bighitbiker3 6y ago
Yep in the exact same boat as you. Went with the M3i and pair it with the Peloton standalone app for classes. Have been meaning to try out Zwift but I've started running more due to the nicer weather. Eventually! Many of my friends went with the Peloton and swear by it. If you're fine being platform-locked for $39/mo it's a great option. The bike is quality, the classes are amazing, and the peer competition is motivating. All that wasn't for me though.
- deleted 6y ago
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- Johnny555 6y ago
  The problem for me wasn't just the $39/mo, that's still mildly affordable, but figured if Peloton raises the fee, there's not much I can do about it since I'm locked in. Since I use the standalone Peloton app with my Keiser, if Peloton raises their fee I can easily switch to another one.
dkrich 6y ago
I got a Keiser, too, mostly because the Peloton wasn’t available for like 10 months when I wanted one, but also for the money the Keiser is a much higher quality bike plus you have the flexibility of using Zwift or other apps. I currently use the Peloton app for 100% of my rides, but I hate the idea of spending $2500+ for a piece of equipment that I’ll probably never replace and being locked into their ecosystem and not having any choice (it’s not an iPhone that I’m going to replace every two years because it has better and better features- it’s a stationary bike). I suspect they recognize that the TAM for bikes is pretty well saturated and need to look elsewhere for opportunities. I have a Fitbit because all I wanted was a fitness tracker, not a fully functional smart watch, but the ability to use it for my workouts is important. But it does a decent enough job of tracking effort just based on heart rate without knowing every detail of resistance, cadence, etc.

throwawaysea 6y ago

That is a very anti consumer move, especially considering many people bought their new bikes with expectations about integration with apple’s gym kit.

varispeed 6y ago

GDPR mandates data portability so that users can move their data easily from one system to another. So is this even legal?

throwaway98797 6y ago
yes

kbos87 6y ago

How hard it is to connect even the first generation bike to a watch or heart rate monitor is ridiculous to the point that I’ve never figured it out. It seems confirmed impossible with an Apple Watch; supposedly it’s possible with other brands but was prohibitively difficult with my Garmin. Agree that this is short sighted and a game they can’t win. My watch works perfectly fine for me without being connected to the bike; they lose for not ingesting my heart rate data.

hastes 6y ago

Why doesn't Apple just buy Peloton and add it to the vast network of Apple products that they can slowly kill and release a better version like they did with Beats?

sneak 6y ago
My theory is that Apple isn't that into low-differentiation devices that aren't directly related to their core businesses. Beats were on the forefront of wireless headphones, which ties nicely into iTunes/etc. While Apple is super into fitness now (because of the watch, as well as the Peloton-style recurring revenue subscription market) the Peloton stuff isn't really groundbreaking hardware: it's an unremarkable bike with an unremarkable display bolted on to it, with an unremarkable app that runs on it, and a remarkable marketing/astroturfing campaign to drive the wheel. The hardware brand itself isn't that valuable, IMO. Perhaps the subscription revenue is, but Apple doesn't need Peloton's undifferentiated bike or brand name to participate in that market, and has world-class marketers of their own. Apple probably won't make exercise hardware unless they can make exercise hardware vastly better than what is presently available. Peloton is not that.
- djrogers 6y ago
  Apple bought Beats for their streaming service - the headphones were a nice side bonus.

hullo 6y ago

If true, an interesting move; failing to account for the possibility of the iPad dominating the tablet market essentially sunk Peloton President William Lynch's run at Barnes & Noble when they invested too heavily in the production of first party Nook tablets. Those Nook tablets were actually a great product, far superior to the Fire tablets Amazon was eventually able to muscle in to their own niche, but it didn't ultimately mean that much in the face of Apple's domination.

tmpz22 6y ago
I'm a dissatisfied apple watch owner. The battery is basically gone after a year and a half, and while some of the first party apps are cool, third party apps underperform with only a specter of the feature sets they have on other devices - likely due to constraints with the hardware and software. Syncing music is a absolute travesty taking 4+ hours to sync even a modest catalogue. The official debugging forums are themselves an 8th circle of hell. It does not feel like Apple cares enough about the watch relative to its other businesses. If they did they wouldn't have shipped a device that should probably be in beta. If I was a partner firm I would not invest significantly in the watch platform. Maybe in a 4+ years, but I really doubt it.
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  I stream my music collection from the internet on my watch and it’s instant. I don’t know why you are trying to follow a pattern from 1995 and wondering why we don’t do that anymore.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    One of the selling points of the Apple Watch is being able to use it (though not own it since it needs an iPhone at some point) in isolation. Having to stream content isn't always an option or isn't the best option. I use mine on my runs, but it has no cellular data of its own so I downloaded music and audiobooks to it. Even if it did have cellular data, streaming the music would drain the battery even faster since I'd be using every capability: health stat monitoring, bluetooth, GPS, and cellular data.

kart23 6y ago

Doesn't Peloton still have ANT+? Plus a lot of other gym equipment uses ANT+ too, I can't understand why the apple watch doesn't have this functionality.

FPGAhacker 6y ago
I don’t know either, but you can apparently work around it via an iPhone app.

gbourne 6y ago

Wow! I just ordered the Bike+, coming May 22nd. A big reason was the Apple Watch integration. I might just get the bike (cheaper and can get in a week) or cancel the entire order.

mdoms 6y ago

Do people know you can just go for a run or cycle. You don't even need to pay someone, just go and do it.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
Where I live it rains every other day and there aren't any interesting places to cycle.
quenix 6y ago
Not everyone is in a position where they can do that.

Colin_Jenkins 6y ago

sorry website servers were overloaded at Connect The Watts. It should be back up soon. In the meantime, you can find a video version of the article here: https://youtu.be/858l-fBoZN0 https://youtu.be/858l-fBoZN0

Colin_Jenkins 6y ago
ok should be back up and working now!

ShakataGaNai 6y ago

I find the video amusing as the dude calls it the "annoying toy tactic". aka when parents conveniently "lose" a very annoying toy a child might have. However the correct term for this, I think, is "bait and switch". When you buy a tech product and it has a feature that is arbitrarily taken away from you. Frankly it should be illegal. Lots of companies have done this and will continue to do it until they can't.

unixhero 6y ago

So glad I went agnostic and got the Technogym bike.

jb775 6y ago

Sounds like Apple is trying to leech off the success of any company making money off Apple product owners.

boringg 6y ago

This is just annoying as someone who likes both products.

davidu 6y ago

If this is Peloton's choice, it's a bad one, and potentially fatal. Not supporting Apple Health was what killed FitBit, so hopefully Peloton avoids learning this lesson the hard way.