10 ms·

I wish they had a laptop with a latest and top AMD, 14" 4K IPS matte panel, programmers friendly keyboard (pg up/down home end on dedicated keys at least), expa

I wish they had a laptop with a latest and top AMD, 14" 4K IPS matte panel, programmers friendly keyboard (pg up/down home end on dedicated keys at least), expandable RAM and nvme drive, silent fans and metal chassis and a Linux support. Less important physical camera and wi-fi cut off switch. If there was an ARM chip with comparable performance to M1 I would consider it too if it was running Linux. After watching their talk with Louis Rossman I really like this company. Hopefully one day they'll have a product that will match my needs. The link to the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGle6z9KfZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGle6z9KfZQ

kaibee 6y ago
Drop the 4K IPS for a 2560x1440 panel instead.
- varispeed 6y ago
  I wouldn't say no to that if other specs matched.
- bmurphy1976 6y ago
  My aging eyesight says no. 4k or bust for me.
  - rubyist5eva 6y ago
    at 14" is the difference even distinguishable? I can barely tell the difference between 1080p and retina on screens that small
    - bmurphy1976 6y ago
      It's complicated. For me it's about how smooth the text is and how consistent the experience is. 4k with 2x (integer scaling) is a pleasant balance of crisp rendering and appropriate text size. The lower resolutions would require non-integer scaling and so far my experience doing that in Linux environments has been very poor. I don't expect this to be a smooth experience any time in the near future. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
    - powersnail 6y ago
      The difference is huge for me, especially for reading texts. The rending quality is night and day.
      - dTal 6y ago
        Between 1080 and WQHD, sure. But between WQHD and 4k?
        akvadrako 6y ago
        Both are fine from a DPI standpoint, but some people prefer the size of 4k@2x to WQHD at 1x or 2x.
        powersnail 6y ago
        Yes, I can definitely tell. I have owned both WQHD and 4K laptops. At least for text, I can tell the difference at first sight, and I’m more comfortable with 4K.
  - valvar 6y ago
    What's your logic there? I would have thought that if your eyesight is poor, resolution matters much less as you can't tell the difference. You'd want to scale things 2-4 times anyway.
    - bmurphy1976 6y ago
      2x scaling at 4k is comfortable and crisply rendered fonts are a MUST. My eyes are far more fatigued at the end of the day if font rendering isn't crystal clear. Other resolutions require non-integer scaling and my experience with that has been... not great.
      - hyakosm 6y ago
        2x scaling in 4K is the Hi-DPI equivalent of 1080p: on 13 or 14 inch screens, elements on screen are really tiny. On this screen size, we have mainly 1280x800 (Apple) or 1366x720 (PC) resolutions, where the Hi-DPI or Retina equivalent (2x scaling) is 2K. With GNOME, screen elements (texts, windows and widgets) are big (way bigger than macOS or Windows). In this case 1080p-like at 2x scaling should be OK with this screen size.
      - skrtskrt 6y ago
        I am in the exact same boat, 2x scaling at 4k. I am young but I wear contacts that are not an exact perfect prescription due to the limitations of contacts. But people will swear up and down to me that there is no way I could possibly tell the difference between screens. You can literally see individual pixels on a 1080p screen! I am on Macbooks, but I want to switch to something with Linux so I am waiting for the gen 9 Thinkpad X1C with 4k screen to be available at some reasonable price. Font rendering is also clearly worse on Linux than Mac, making the fuzzy pixels even more unworkable. I dual booted a 2015 Macbook Air into several Linux distros and I could barely read the text no matter which settings were applied. More relevant to the overall thread: Pop OS is awesome.
        da_big_ghey 6y ago
        > Pop OS is awesome. Yes, they are needing for to change name, however. "Pop_OS!" is very a stupid name, no low hyphen "_" charactir or exclimation in name is good. Only "Pop OS" is good.
- toastal 6y ago
  ...And use a panel that covers at least 100% DCI-P3 color gamut. I bought an Acer at the tail end of last year because I need color accuracy (and couldn't get my hands on high-end HP or Dell or Lenovo in Thailand because markets).
asdff 6y ago
I wouldn't even care if that laptop were an inch thick
rlonstein 6y ago
I'd buy one but is there anyone selling an AMD Ryzen 5 or 7 laptop with a good panel and keyboard?
867-5309 6y ago
4K on a 14".. what is the use case for that? unless you have some hybrid long-short sightedness (d)efficiency, use your laptop as a chesttop, or want quadruple the pixels for half the battery life I really can't see any benefit
- varispeed 6y ago
  I currently have XPS 15 with 4k screen and I can easily see pixels, so 14 should be a little better. There is also the feeling that it is 2021 and should I still be seeing pixels? I think crisp high resolution view is much better for the eyes and feels more natural. I am also almost always within reach of a mains socket, so I don't particularly care about battery life, just that I can move the machine from one place to another easily.
  - abreis 6y ago
    4K at 15" is 294 dpi. I'm very surprised to hear that you can see pixels at that density at a normal laptop screen viewing distance. My laptop is 'only' at 226dpi (16") and I can't see pixels unless I bring my nose to the screen.
    - adrusi 6y ago
      I think different people mean different things by "see the pixels." I can't imagine being able to see individual pixels on a 15" 4k display at laptop distances, but I can imagine being able to notice minor distortions in the outlines of text, or more discomfort than necessary when reading small text, as a result of lower pixel densities. That could be reasonably described as seeing the pixels.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      My iPhone has ~320dpi and I can't see pixels at non-ridculous viewing distances. I don't know what GP's viewing distance habits or eyes are like but for me, considering laptop viewing distance is probably like twice that of smartphones, I can't imagine a 15" 4K laptop being anything but overkill.
  - 6y ago
arnaudsm 6y ago
Note the latest AMD 5850U chip is 40% faster [1] than the M1 for the same wattage! It really deserves more media exposure than the M1 which has the only merit of beating Intel. [1] https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+5850U&id=4198 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+585...
- pram 6y ago
  The M1 is the entry level processor, and is still beating everything in single thread performance. What merits the media exposure?
  - whycombagator 6y ago
    Non-Apple TSMC 7nm and 40% faster at the same wattage (assuming GP is correct) compared to M1 seem like valid reasons for media exposure to me
    - pram 6y ago
      It’s marginally faster than its predecessor.
      - ori_b 6y ago
        By that token, the M1 wasn't a big deal.
  - xolve 6y ago
    M1 being called a new era of CPU architecture, AMD really deserves a great applause here for being there as well.
    - pram 6y ago
      I’d assume that’s because of the novelty of it being a competitive desktop ARM processor. The processor listed isn’t much faster than the previous gen Ryzen, it’s unremarkable from an apple to apple comparison.
merb 6y ago
and thunderbold 4
- ben-schaaf 6y ago
  AMD Laptop CPUs don't support thunderbolt.
  - girvo 6y ago
    I wonder if USB 4 support will be coming, that should "solve" this somewhat I would think?
    - toastal 6y ago
      Not until 6000 series (5000 was just released) at the latest; that was their target.
  - merb 6y ago
    actually thats not 100% true. asus has a motherboard for that: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/ProArt/ProArt-B550-CREATOR/ https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Pr... it's possible on the motherboard side (this board supports amd mobile), so it should be possible for laptops, too. in fact there was a laptop for ryzen gen 2 with a motherboard that somehow added it, but I could not find it.
akvadrako 6y ago
Why IPS and not OLED?
- Koshkin 6y ago
  If I had an OLED I’d be constantly worried about burn-in. No thanks.
CoastalCoder 6y ago
I feel almost 100% the same. Only difference is I'd want a bigger screen than 14".
pkulak 6y ago
They need to make their own laptop. Then it's an instant buy from me. But right now everything is 1080p, plastic, with no USB-C charging. Bleh.
- commoner 6y ago
  System76 is working on laptops designed in-house. It's a work in progress. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/system76-will-start-designing-and-building-its-own-linux-laptops-beginning-january-2020/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/syste... You can offer suggestions for their laptop manufacturing project here: https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions
cooperadymas 6y ago
Everybody wants what they want and that's fine, but this comment shows why it's so hard for a small manufacturer to cater to developers.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  There are a few things that they've never even tried, and would be obvious for the type of folks that use linux. High resolution and power efficiency are two of them that almost everyone wants.
- itsoktocry 6y ago
  No kidding. The OP posts a list of 10 very specific things, including some that are difficult to accomplish, expensive or nearly pointless (4k on a 14"?). "If you do this, I will support the company". So noble.
luke2m 6y ago
Yes. That would be great. The classic thinkpads had an awesome keyboard and physical Wi-Fi and mic switches. That with modern cpu would be perfect.
samstave 6y ago
My hp omen is pretty bad ass, check them out - has most of all that - no metal case though sadly..
- 6bb32646d83d 6y ago
  +1 on HP Omen. Fits most of your demand except for the 4k screen. I have the AMD Ryzen 7 4800H version and it's significantly faster than the beefiest macbook pro you can buy. Linux runs great on it. It costs ~$1000
  - samstave 6y ago
    I have the same one - and the symmetry in the design when you open the case is beautiful, the dual SSD lots mirrored on each side from each other is really nice.
mushufasa 6y ago
Since they resell Clevo designs, they'll definitely offer such a laptop but it may take them a few more months to have one available. They seem to be several months behind new hardware launches, which as I understand is partially because their value-add is rigorous testing and hardware support for linux. They will often patch or back port the newest kernel for the latest drivers.
jtl999 6y ago
I wasn't opposed to the 220dpi of the older Macbook Pros (2880x1800 @ 15.4),but otherwise this is what I want.
mszcz 6y ago
> pg up/down home end on dedicated keys at least You know, I thought that that would bother me on a keyboard. However, it turned out that having PgUp/PgDn/Home/End on Fn+arrow keys, after getting used to it, is a speed improvement (at least for me). I don't have to move my hand as much. In fact, I liked so much that I have Alt+Left/Right arrow mapped as Home/End in AHK (on normal keyboards).
danparsonson 6y ago
Take a look at the Thinkpad P14s - I don't think they offer a 4k screen but apart from that I believe it ticks all your boxes. I'm running Fedora 33 on mine and it's brilliant.
brightball 6y ago
When I bought a linux laptop 4 years ago I was between System76 and Dell Developer Edition. I ended up going with Dell and I’m very happy with it but I’ve kept an eye on these guys ever since. Really like what I see from PopOS and I will probably buy from them next time.
wing-_-nuts 6y ago
Why a 4k display on a screen that small? That is well beyond the limits of human visual acuity.
AtlasBarfed 6y ago
Laptops that aren't apple are dog slow at adding HDMI 2.0, USB-C in sufficient numbers, etc etc etc. You'd think the amount of business laptops still made by Dell and HP would lead to a better set of mobos for laptops in general (since they are made by such a smaller number of vendors I think), but it is dog slow. The Desktop is supposed to be totally dead but the mobo support for features runs way ahead of still kind relevant laptop market by 12-18 months.

kaibee 6y ago

Drop the 4K IPS for a 2560x1440 panel instead.

varispeed 6y ago
I wouldn't say no to that if other specs matched.
bmurphy1976 6y ago
My aging eyesight says no. 4k or bust for me.
- rubyist5eva 6y ago
  at 14" is the difference even distinguishable? I can barely tell the difference between 1080p and retina on screens that small
  - bmurphy1976 6y ago
    It's complicated. For me it's about how smooth the text is and how consistent the experience is. 4k with 2x (integer scaling) is a pleasant balance of crisp rendering and appropriate text size. The lower resolutions would require non-integer scaling and so far my experience doing that in Linux environments has been very poor. I don't expect this to be a smooth experience any time in the near future. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
  - powersnail 6y ago
    The difference is huge for me, especially for reading texts. The rending quality is night and day.
    - dTal 6y ago
      Between 1080 and WQHD, sure. But between WQHD and 4k?
      - akvadrako 6y ago
        Both are fine from a DPI standpoint, but some people prefer the size of 4k@2x to WQHD at 1x or 2x.
      - powersnail 6y ago
        Yes, I can definitely tell. I have owned both WQHD and 4K laptops. At least for text, I can tell the difference at first sight, and I’m more comfortable with 4K.
- valvar 6y ago
  What's your logic there? I would have thought that if your eyesight is poor, resolution matters much less as you can't tell the difference. You'd want to scale things 2-4 times anyway.
  - bmurphy1976 6y ago
    2x scaling at 4k is comfortable and crisply rendered fonts are a MUST. My eyes are far more fatigued at the end of the day if font rendering isn't crystal clear. Other resolutions require non-integer scaling and my experience with that has been... not great.
    - hyakosm 6y ago
      2x scaling in 4K is the Hi-DPI equivalent of 1080p: on 13 or 14 inch screens, elements on screen are really tiny. On this screen size, we have mainly 1280x800 (Apple) or 1366x720 (PC) resolutions, where the Hi-DPI or Retina equivalent (2x scaling) is 2K. With GNOME, screen elements (texts, windows and widgets) are big (way bigger than macOS or Windows). In this case 1080p-like at 2x scaling should be OK with this screen size.
    - skrtskrt 6y ago
      I am in the exact same boat, 2x scaling at 4k. I am young but I wear contacts that are not an exact perfect prescription due to the limitations of contacts. But people will swear up and down to me that there is no way I could possibly tell the difference between screens. You can literally see individual pixels on a 1080p screen! I am on Macbooks, but I want to switch to something with Linux so I am waiting for the gen 9 Thinkpad X1C with 4k screen to be available at some reasonable price. Font rendering is also clearly worse on Linux than Mac, making the fuzzy pixels even more unworkable. I dual booted a 2015 Macbook Air into several Linux distros and I could barely read the text no matter which settings were applied. More relevant to the overall thread: Pop OS is awesome.
      - da_big_ghey 6y ago
        > Pop OS is awesome. Yes, they are needing for to change name, however. "Pop_OS!" is very a stupid name, no low hyphen "_" charactir or exclimation in name is good. Only "Pop OS" is good.
toastal 6y ago
...And use a panel that covers at least 100% DCI-P3 color gamut. I bought an Acer at the tail end of last year because I need color accuracy (and couldn't get my hands on high-end HP or Dell or Lenovo in Thailand because markets).

asdff 6y ago

I wouldn't even care if that laptop were an inch thick

rlonstein 6y ago

I'd buy one but is there anyone selling an AMD Ryzen 5 or 7 laptop with a good panel and keyboard?

867-5309 6y ago

4K on a 14".. what is the use case for that? unless you have some hybrid long-short sightedness (d)efficiency, use your laptop as a chesttop, or want quadruple the pixels for half the battery life I really can't see any benefit

varispeed 6y ago
I currently have XPS 15 with 4k screen and I can easily see pixels, so 14 should be a little better. There is also the feeling that it is 2021 and should I still be seeing pixels? I think crisp high resolution view is much better for the eyes and feels more natural. I am also almost always within reach of a mains socket, so I don't particularly care about battery life, just that I can move the machine from one place to another easily.
- abreis 6y ago
  4K at 15" is 294 dpi. I'm very surprised to hear that you can see pixels at that density at a normal laptop screen viewing distance. My laptop is 'only' at 226dpi (16") and I can't see pixels unless I bring my nose to the screen.
  - adrusi 6y ago
    I think different people mean different things by "see the pixels." I can't imagine being able to see individual pixels on a 15" 4k display at laptop distances, but I can imagine being able to notice minor distortions in the outlines of text, or more discomfort than necessary when reading small text, as a result of lower pixel densities. That could be reasonably described as seeing the pixels.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    My iPhone has ~320dpi and I can't see pixels at non-ridculous viewing distances. I don't know what GP's viewing distance habits or eyes are like but for me, considering laptop viewing distance is probably like twice that of smartphones, I can't imagine a 15" 4K laptop being anything but overkill.
- 6y ago

arnaudsm 6y ago

Note the latest AMD 5850U chip is 40% faster [1] than the M1 for the same wattage! It really deserves more media exposure than the M1 which has the only merit of beating Intel. [1] https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+5850U&id=4198 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+585...

pram 6y ago
The M1 is the entry level processor, and is still beating everything in single thread performance. What merits the media exposure?
- whycombagator 6y ago
  Non-Apple TSMC 7nm and 40% faster at the same wattage (assuming GP is correct) compared to M1 seem like valid reasons for media exposure to me
  - pram 6y ago
    It’s marginally faster than its predecessor.
    - ori_b 6y ago
      By that token, the M1 wasn't a big deal.
- xolve 6y ago
  M1 being called a new era of CPU architecture, AMD really deserves a great applause here for being there as well.
  - pram 6y ago
    I’d assume that’s because of the novelty of it being a competitive desktop ARM processor. The processor listed isn’t much faster than the previous gen Ryzen, it’s unremarkable from an apple to apple comparison.

merb 6y ago

and thunderbold 4

ben-schaaf 6y ago
AMD Laptop CPUs don't support thunderbolt.
- girvo 6y ago
  I wonder if USB 4 support will be coming, that should "solve" this somewhat I would think?
  - toastal 6y ago
    Not until 6000 series (5000 was just released) at the latest; that was their target.
- merb 6y ago
  actually thats not 100% true. asus has a motherboard for that: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/ProArt/ProArt-B550-CREATOR/ https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Pr... it's possible on the motherboard side (this board supports amd mobile), so it should be possible for laptops, too. in fact there was a laptop for ryzen gen 2 with a motherboard that somehow added it, but I could not find it.

akvadrako 6y ago

Why IPS and not OLED?

Koshkin 6y ago
If I had an OLED I’d be constantly worried about burn-in. No thanks.

CoastalCoder 6y ago

I feel almost 100% the same. Only difference is I'd want a bigger screen than 14".

pkulak 6y ago

They need to make their own laptop. Then it's an instant buy from me. But right now everything is 1080p, plastic, with no USB-C charging. Bleh.

commoner 6y ago
System76 is working on laptops designed in-house. It's a work in progress. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/system76-will-start-designing-and-building-its-own-linux-laptops-beginning-january-2020/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/syste... You can offer suggestions for their laptop manufacturing project here: https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions

cooperadymas 6y ago

Everybody wants what they want and that's fine, but this comment shows why it's so hard for a small manufacturer to cater to developers.

mixmastamyk 6y ago
There are a few things that they've never even tried, and would be obvious for the type of folks that use linux. High resolution and power efficiency are two of them that almost everyone wants.
itsoktocry 6y ago
No kidding. The OP posts a list of 10 very specific things, including some that are difficult to accomplish, expensive or nearly pointless (4k on a 14"?). "If you do this, I will support the company". So noble.

luke2m 6y ago

Yes. That would be great. The classic thinkpads had an awesome keyboard and physical Wi-Fi and mic switches. That with modern cpu would be perfect.

samstave 6y ago

My hp omen is pretty bad ass, check them out - has most of all that - no metal case though sadly..

6bb32646d83d 6y ago
+1 on HP Omen. Fits most of your demand except for the 4k screen. I have the AMD Ryzen 7 4800H version and it's significantly faster than the beefiest macbook pro you can buy. Linux runs great on it. It costs ~$1000
- samstave 6y ago
  I have the same one - and the symmetry in the design when you open the case is beautiful, the dual SSD lots mirrored on each side from each other is really nice.

mushufasa 6y ago

Since they resell Clevo designs, they'll definitely offer such a laptop but it may take them a few more months to have one available. They seem to be several months behind new hardware launches, which as I understand is partially because their value-add is rigorous testing and hardware support for linux. They will often patch or back port the newest kernel for the latest drivers.

jtl999 6y ago

I wasn't opposed to the 220dpi of the older Macbook Pros (2880x1800 @ 15.4),but otherwise this is what I want.

mszcz 6y ago

> pg up/down home end on dedicated keys at least You know, I thought that that would bother me on a keyboard. However, it turned out that having PgUp/PgDn/Home/End on Fn+arrow keys, after getting used to it, is a speed improvement (at least for me). I don't have to move my hand as much. In fact, I liked so much that I have Alt+Left/Right arrow mapped as Home/End in AHK (on normal keyboards).

danparsonson 6y ago

Take a look at the Thinkpad P14s - I don't think they offer a 4k screen but apart from that I believe it ticks all your boxes. I'm running Fedora 33 on mine and it's brilliant.

brightball 6y ago

When I bought a linux laptop 4 years ago I was between System76 and Dell Developer Edition. I ended up going with Dell and I’m very happy with it but I’ve kept an eye on these guys ever since. Really like what I see from PopOS and I will probably buy from them next time.

wing-_-nuts 6y ago

Why a 4k display on a screen that small? That is well beyond the limits of human visual acuity.

AtlasBarfed 6y ago

Laptops that aren't apple are dog slow at adding HDMI 2.0, USB-C in sufficient numbers, etc etc etc. You'd think the amount of business laptops still made by Dell and HP would lead to a better set of mobos for laptops in general (since they are made by such a smaller number of vendors I think), but it is dog slow. The Desktop is supposed to be totally dead but the mobo support for features runs way ahead of still kind relevant laptop market by 12-18 months.