16 ms·
Tesla hikes solar roof price on contracts signed over a year ago
- AdrianB1 6y agoNot looking for excuses, but I was shocked a week ago by the price increases across the board. I ordered a second custom Threadripper machine to complement the one I built over 2 years ago: the CPU (2xxx) that I bought more than 2 years ago had the same price, the same cooler was double (from 59 to 118), the same case was 50% more expensive. The Plantronics headset I bought 4 years ago is more expensive today, even if the model is quite old. Even the same jeans and motorcycle boots are 50% more expensive than the list price 3 years ago, the bicycle parts ordered from Germany are 50% more expensive than 4-5 years ago, so it is not just computer parts. Not sure if this is all from the vast quantity of money printed in the past year or there is some other cause I cannot identify.
- ameen 6y agoI’m not sure if you’re aware, but the manufacturing industry & the global supply chain is still reeling from the COVID pandemic closures - there’s a well documented microchip shortage, and other prices have been jacked up due to the reduced capacity of global supply chain. The inflation angle isn’t really the reason for the price hike/stagnation.
- Gravityloss 6y agoThe printed money is starting to have effects? (I am not an expert in money.) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25828461 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25828461
- nemo44x 6y agoHave a look at construction materials pricing. Lumber is up 200% since last year. Plumbing materials are going up like 30% every few months to the point a local supplier here has to post signs indicating price increases. Was speaking with a contractor who told me quotes they put out a year ago they’re having to revise about 40% (depending on project) for clients that are requesting work start now. Labor costs haven’t quite risen in that field yet but with insatiable demand right now I’d expect it to. A carpenter I know has been working 6 days a week for months now. Money is cheap and people had a great year of saving due to not taking vacations, etc last year. Combine that with supply lines being disrupted and it’s a bidding war for materials. Go to Home Depot and be shocked at the price of a 2x4.
- AdrianB1 6y agoThat is exactly the point. Tesla increasing prices by 30% is not a surprise and it does not even look terrible anymore in context.
- alkonaut 6y agoScummy behavior. The lesson, I guess: don't pay a deposit on something where the other party can unilaterally back out or change the terms giving you nothing but the deposit back.
- monkeydust 6y agoCurious is there a site that captures solar installation costs globally for comparisons? Would be happy to contribute just had mine done. There was certainty a large spread in the quotes I obtained.
- reedf1 6y agoI've not read too much in detail about the solar roof but at this price is it actually economical? Or just a status symbol?
- andreareina 6y agoReportedly not: > If Tesla can’t honor the old price, they’ll need to put on a regular roof and solar panels (which they estimate will cost significantly less than Tesla’s updated Solar Roof pricing).
- aardvarkr 6y agoIt’s not a status symbol per se, at least not in my opinion because the whole point is it’s invisible. Hard to flex if no one can see it, lol. It’s just a beautiful roof with hidden solar panels. But no, it’s nowhere near economical compared to the alternatives though they’re the only provider I know of doing invisible tiles. The price difference before the recent increase was like 20k for a 2,000 sq ft house vs 35-50k.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> the whole point is it’s invisible. Hard to flex if no one can see it Perfectly fine for flexing over when their wife brings it up every goddamn millisecond.
- CobrastanJorji 6y agoThe pitch goes like this. You need a roof (either because you're building a new house or because your roof needs replacing). A regular roof will last maybe 25 years. The Tesla roof costs substantially more, but it also reduces or eliminates your electric bill for decades, and it lasts "infinity or the lifetime of the building," so in theory it could save you the cost of replacing your roof next time. Now, whether that actually works out in practice depends on a lot of unknowns plus also local factors (how much do roofs costs where you live, how much sunlight do you get, how much electricity do you use, does anyone in several hundred square miles know how to repair your Tesla roof, etc).
- Barrin92 6y ago"Adding insult to injury, Tesla also states that they “will be prioritizing customers based on the order in which they accept their updated agreements.” For customers who have already been waiting for months or a year for their new roof, they are now being told that they need to agree to spend tens of thousands more dollars, as quickly as possible, if they want to reduce their wait time." okay, let me get this straight. They're increasing the cost of a contract you'd already signed and then they're passive aggressively threatening customers to push them to the back of the queue if they don't agree? Excuse the profanity but holy shit, that is the most brazen thing I've read in a long time. How can that be legal
- mam2 6y agoIt's legal because there was no "minimal date of delivery" in the original contract. Sad, but still working.
- loceng 6y agoIf contract also stated/warned that there may be an increased final price then it'd be frustrating if it's such a high increase but then they were told; I don't know what their contracts said in full.
- usrusr 6y agoBut on a purely logical level (I assume that legally things stand differently), it's effectively the same: without an agreed date limit, they could just delay it infinitely (unless the customer submits to some extra charge/price hike) and the buyer would be in a much worse situation than with a cancelled contract because the seller could pop up any day "now you get your roof, give us the money, now"
- conistonwater 6y agoI imagine it's legal because it's a deposit, and also because caveat emptor, i.e., people are free not to do business with them. If people want to deal with random bullshit, that's their personal decision. In general, "illegal" is a very high bar to clear for most behaviours, it's easier just to decide not to put up with that as a customer especially if you haven't lost anything yet.
- raverbashing 6y agoThe real question is why would I go with a Tesla solar roof? I think getting a roof-mounted one is probably cheaper and has less vendor lock-in.
- anonporridge 6y agoI actually think part of Tesla's strategy is to make green tech more palatable for the conservative crowd. Their whole line of cars highlights power, performance, luxury, and the cool factor. They've almost single-handedly destroyed the conception that EVs are sad little suped up golf carts for tree hugging dweebs. You're almost a loser if you don't have a Tesla now. The cybertruck is another big play on this trend. The solar roof is another take on this. Make solar look like regular shingles and along with the amortized cost savings, people resistant to change really don't have a good argument against it, whereas they might for an installment of obvious panels.
- powerapple 6y agoThe look of Tesla solar roof is a lot nicer than a roof mounted solar panel to be honest. It is the premium some people are willing to pay for. It would be a personal choice kind of thing. I definitely can understand it. People spend twice or more money on a logo on a T shirt every day.
- 01100011 6y agoI wonder if the Tesla roof keeps your attic as cool as solar panels do? I swear I felt my house was cooler from having the panels.
- raverbashing 6y agoProbably not since they replace the tiles. If you have a conventional roof solar panel there's a small gap between the roof and the panels. So effectively your roof is on the shadows of the panel (Also some of the light that would heat it is turning into electricity, so maybe there is a small temperature difference there)
- 6y ago
- jitl 6y agoI was considering a solar roof as my current roof is nearing projected end of life. Guess I should get on the list now — or not.
- Traster 6y agoI mean, there's not much to be said about this is there, this is absolutely standard Tesla behaviour. Oh we didn't realise installing rooves could be complicated, here's a 30% price rise after we've already signed the contract. Don't worry though, your FSD package is definitely going to be working very very soon. I don't know what it is about this continually unlearned lesson of "Maybe just chat with someone who does the thing you're trying to replace for 5 minutes". Absolutely same thing with the boring company- 5 minutes with an expert would have saved them years of learning the lessons everyone already knew.
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoCould this just be an example of inflation taking place in the US economy due to the COVID response?
- jgilias 6y agoBut that's exactly the modus operandi of Musk's companies. Figure out the big picture of something based on first principles, assume that the industry is stuck on some local maximum, and try to do it in a different way. Sometimes it works, sometimes it may not. I mean, there would've been plenty of knowledgeable people in the relevant industries telling Musk why landing rockets and reusing them is not going to work, and why battery powered mass market electric vehicles is a pipe dream.
- alkonaut 6y ago> Sometimes it works, sometimes it may not. The way this should work is: Sometimes it works and a company is successful, and sometimes it doesn't and the company isn't successful. Musk's apparent mode of operation is: if it works, my company is successful, and if it doesn't work, a lot of customers (or even would-be-customers) will take part of the hit and the company won't be that unsuccessful. That's not how it should work.
- verbify 6y agoI think it's generous to attribute reusable rockets to Musk - the Space Shuttle Columbia went on 17 missions - Musk didn't develop the first reusable rocket. As for electric cars, I believe the limiting factor was battery technology, which has improved in leaps and bounds in the past decade. Tesla wasn't the only company developing electric cars - Renault-Nissan Alliance achieved the sales milestone of 350,000 all-electric vehicles delivered globally in August 2016, ranking second was Tesla Motors with over 139,000 electric cars sold between 2008 and June 2016. It's also not clear that Musk founded Tesla, but I'm not clear on the history there. Tesla do have the strongest branding in electric cars though, and I would attribute that to Musk's ability as a showman.
- anovikov 6y agoI just don't get, what is the point of that solar roof at such an insane price ($5-8 per watt, seriously? this is the price from 10+ years ago!). What am i missing?
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoIf it lasts 20 years, then its 25 cents per watt. Because you only pay once of course.
- aardvarkr 6y agoTo be fair, the solar roof is beautiful but oh my god is it expensive. I looked into it months ago and couldn’t believe the sticker price and that was before the price hike.
- wongarsu 6y agoIt's cheaper than replacing your roof (with comparable roofing material) and getting a solar installation. If your roof is still good then you aren't really the target market.
- worik 6y agoAre you sure? Bolting the framework and panels onto a existing roof cannot be that hard. The electrics are the same, surly? But I have not priced it. Have you?
- okl 6y agoAccording to this site (https://news.energysage.com/tesla-solar-roof-price-vs-solar-panels/ https://news.energysage.com/tesla-solar-roof-price-vs-solar-...) it is not only ~33% more expensive but also less efficient.
- Cu3PO42 6y agoSo what's their target market then? If you're building a new house you need to be able to plan construction. Waiting a seemingly arbitrary amount of time for your roof to be installed seems extremely unattractive. Are people really willing to put up with that? Or is the intended target market just very old houses that are being fully renovated?
- honksillet 6y agoWelcome to inflation
- worik 6y agoHere's hoping!
- dawnerd 6y agoI ordered panels back in July last year, signed the paper work soon as I could to not be the bottleneck and they didn’t get them installed until November. They didn’t submit the loan paperwork so the loan expired. I’ve still yet get a bill for the system and it’s all powered on. I’m really confused how anyone at Tesla allows their solar division to run like this. For all the cost cutting Elon likes to push, this seems like a huge area of waste. I’m just finding it really hard to recommend Tesla solar to anyone. Trying to talk to anyone there is a massive pain point and in my case they clearly don’t want the money. (Just to be clear I’ve reached out a bunch and signed updated paperwork but they’ve still yet to submit).
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y agoDay-to-day, how does the system work for you? Aside from installation issues, is Tesla's app/etc. better or worse than the alternatives?
- michaelt 6y agoMy solar installation takes care of itself day-to-day - I don't really need an app. If you want to run your dryer when the solar panels are at their best, starting it on a simple timer will get you most of the benefit without any of that insecure IoT nonsense.
- dawnerd 6y agoWorks fine. Since I own a Model 3 it just made sense, they even threw in a free wall connector.
- totalZero 6y agoTinfoil hat here, but is it possible that they don't want to realize the revenue right now? I'm not an accountant but I do know that some businesses use lawful tricks to smooth out their profits. Otherwise what you describe seems like atrociously irresponsible business.
- hef19898 6y ago
- danans 6y agoSolar roof tiles will take off when if/when residential rooftop solar is so ubiquitous that it is something people actually want to hide instead of show. We are pretty far from that point, and at the moment, visible solar panels add value. For the moment, the minority of people for whom non-visible solar PV on a premium slate type roof is a priority are largely people who are wealthy enough to be insensitive to this price change, so it sort of makes sense to charge more.
- franga2000 6y agoHow do hidden solar panels (tiles or whatever other option) raise the value less? Like, if you're buying a house, even if the solar panels are perfectly hidden, they'll still be prominently mentioned on the listing and by the agent. I'd imagine they'd even be more valuable than bulky and obvious panels, since those tend to look kinda ugly, especially on some more vintage house designs.
- zizee 6y agoI think the grandparent was saying that the super visible solar panels allow the house owner to signal to their neighbors/visitors/friends/family that they are environmentally conscious, thus getting social credit for the solar installation. I.e. The social cachet from the older style panels being super visible outweighs the reduced asthetic, therefore people will not pay extra for nicer looking solar.
- franga2000 6y agoIs that really such a big thing? And even if it is, it's not like roof tile panels are impossible to know about. For starters, they're not actually completely invisible - you can usually still tell. But more importantly, there will still be construction that your neighbours will ask you about ("hey, whacha building, neighbour?" "oh, not much, I'm just replacing my roof with solar tiles. Y'know, for the environment!") and you can surely subtly brag about it. Word travels fast so everyone around would quickly know and I'd imagine rich people would be far more impressed by someone with a beautiful roof and high-tech solar tiles, than someone installing the same ugly panels everyone and their dog have had since the early 2000s - same level of environmental signaling, but far more impressive.
- yurielt 6y agoMusk being a grifter how unexpected... Honestly he does the same thing that he has done all over his career promising people the moon but making them pay for Mars and more he did something similar with his initial employees at Tesla and their options I don’t know how people can keep trusting him is ridiculous.
- junippor 6y ago> he did something similar with his initial employees at Tesla and their options Link?
- yurielt 6y agohttps://about.bnef.com/blog/tesla-worker-says-firing-timing-denied-him-lucrative-shares/ https://about.bnef.com/blog/tesla-worker-says-firing-timing-...
- ameen 6y agoI’ve heard the same about SpaceX employees being promised Tesla stock for helping them out with some Engineering challenges and then being conned out of them, and the case of (again) SpaceX engineers promised Starlink stock (it’s about to be spun off) and then conned after having pitched in to help on it. The more I learn about how his employees are treated the more I wonder if these companies would be sustainable over the years.
- dang 6y agoWould you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? You've done a lot of that, and it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- yurielt 6y agoHow is this flamy I h am quite sure that criticizing musk is not flamy by any means at least according to the guidelinesif it is please let me know
- nathannecro 6y agoYeah, that's been my experience as a prospective Tesla Roof customer. For the record, I cancelled my order before this price hike was sent out, but man, Tesla's service and sales process is probably one of the worst experiences I've had from a price per service point of view. FWIW, I own and have owned several Tesla vehicles and even though the economics of the Tesla solar roof + Powerwall didn't quite work out, I was willing to overpay a bit for the supposed ease of integration into the Tesla ecosystem. It was also a hedge against rolling power outages that California's been struggling with in the past few years. I also have experience that Tesla customer service + sales support is pretty atrocious, but again, they were first movers and their product is legitimately pretty decent, so I was willing to take the hit. I was prepared for bad service, but what I got was legitimately awful. I initially put a deposit down for a few Powerwalls (to be used to arbitrage power rates in CA and as a hedge against rolling blackouts). Over the next 3 months, I spoke with and was called by 6 different sales reps who told me that: -- I could install the Powerwalls standalone and integrate it into my house -- I needed to buy a Solar Roof otherwise the Powerwalls wouldn't work -- I needed to buy a Solar Roof otherwise the wait time for a Powerwall was greater than two years -- Even if I bought a Solar Roof, I could only buy one Powerwall -- I could only buy one Powerwall. If I wanted to buy more than one, I would need to buy a Solar Roof as well. -- They were not selling Powerwalls and the only way I could get a Powerwall was to buy a Solar Roof. Obviously, they wanted to sell Solar Roofs. Fine. My house could probably use a new roof anyways, and the economics weren't that awful. So I asked them what the next step was if I wanted to buy a Solar Roof (and some Powerwalls) and they said that they'd estimate my roof area from some satellite shots. They said that it'd probably take a few days. About two months later, I get an email from Tesla letting me know that they had done their math and my quote was ready. The final price for just a Solar Roof (one Powerwall) system that output just 9.5kW? $60,000. Adding another Powerwall bumped it by $8,000. For what it's worth, I got several other quotes for a comparable roof replacement + solar panels and average pricing was around $40,000. Tesla's proposal didn't discuss timing, didn't break down the cost of parts vs labor, and basically asked me to pay up and let them putz around till they decided to get to me. I asked for more information, got a call back about a month later. After our conversation, got an email with the breakdown of literally "roof = $xxx.xx" and "labor = $xxx.xx". Timing was cited to be between 3 - 9 months depending on supply. Every single person I spoke with was different every time. There was some continuity on the email side, but honestly, it seems like Tesla couldn't be arsed to actually build or sell this product in a competent manner. I just wanted to put a few overpriced batteries in my house to keep the fridge running but Tesla turned this into a year-long debacle. Even after I canceled my order with Tesla, I still occasionally receive phone calls and emails from them asking to schedule my install date.
- ckastner 6y agoDoes anyone know how many installations they are even completing? According to their Q4/2020 report [1], they deployed 200MW of solar in 2020, which doesn't sound that spectacular for a solar company (globally, new installations in 2020 were > 100GW). Admittedly, I don't know a thing about solar, though. [1] https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/1LRLZK_2020_Q4_Quarterly_Update_Deck_-_Searchable_LVA2GL.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22TSLA-Q4-2020-Update.pdf%22 https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/1LRLZK_2020_Q4_Quarterly_...
- flower-giraffe 6y agoWhy on earth would you trust a company with this approach to business? Nudging a customer to accept new terms by putting them to the front of the queue seems morally wrong, and as others have pointed out possibly illegal.
- shillforhumanty 6y agoHype.
- martin_bech 6y agoMust admit, as a stockholder and customer of Tesla.. I feel like, I would like a grownup at the helm..
- threeseed 6y agoThere probably will be at some point in the medium term as Tesla transitions to a more boring and less growth focused company. But Musk has siphoned so much wealth out of Tesla because of his extraordinary compensation package that it makes you wonder if they will survive over the long term.
- hyko 6y agoThe solar roof business has always struck me as the “...and we’ll also have a city on Mars” part of the Tesla car business. It’s just seems like an economic non-starter to me. These kind of moves seem to underscore that; they don’t seem to care about the actual business, which would require creating a lot of trust over a long period of time. This isn’t like buying a new laptop, or even a new car: you’re talking about trusting someone’s word with the roof to your home and its primary power source for the next 20-30 years.
- laurencei 6y agoThose installation prices seem crazy? I live in Australia, and last year I had 13kw worth of solar panels, with a 10kw inverter installed on my roof for $10k AUD (about $8k USD). Our federal government does some subisidies, so I believe the raw cost was closer to $15k. But either way, that is substantially lower than what is quoted here? Why would anyone pay $70k USD for solar?
- TekMol 6y agoYou say you installed the panels on your roof. So I guess you have to add the price of your roof to it? I would think that a Tesla roof is roof+solar in one. Or am I missing something?
- mikro2nd 6y agoFunnily enough, most houses already have a roof, so I don't think you need to incur that cost again when installing solar panels.
- Swenrekcah 6y agoAll things have their lifetime. Here roofs are expected to last 20-30 years. Depending on location and weather YMMV.
- shawabawa3 6y agoI think the idea with Tesla roofs is you would only buy them if you're already building or replacing a roof
- sitharus 6y agoAs I understand it the solar roof is a ‘vanity’ roof designed to blend in with traditional roofing, rather than bolt-on panels.
- foepys 6y agoI have solar on my roof and I'm actually glad it's bolted on instead of integrated into the roof itself. In the summer the heat from direct sunlight doesn't hit the roof and gets absorbed by the panels instead. This way my actual roof is staying relatively cool. A very nice feature that I bet many home owners don't realize until they have it.
- BLanen 6y agoThe price of those panels is absolutely insane compared to normal panels. For marginally better looks, you pay 10x. Normally it takes around the lifetime of a panel to make back the money it saved on your bill, this will never do that with those prices.
- hnarn 6y ago> For marginally better looks, you pay 10x. I don't disagree with you, but this in itself is hardly an uncommon thing in any consumer market. What makes it really weird though is how it messes with the economy of getting something out of your investment.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y agoAre you comparing "panels vs. solar roof", or "roof + panels vs. solar roof"? My understanding was that this being your roof (and thus replacing the cost of the roof) was the main point that makes it at least less unreasonable.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- djanogo 6y agoAt the same time these environmentally conscious people are sending hundreds of tons of perfectly working roof material to landfill.
- 2Gkashmiri 6y agoi am the proud owner of a 5 KWh ongrid solar solution which i bought for a grand total of inr 92000 or USD 1220. my daily production is around 25 KWh on a really sunny day. The lethargic govt "grant" took right around a month of my submitting a bank draft and the installation. then another month later the final installation of lightening arresters and such. The way it is set up, you pay your deposit amount (around 30% of the project cost) via bank draft to the govt and they assign a local retailer/installer to install the whole setup, panels and reverse meter and inverter and once the govt gives them a green signal, their money is released.
- gameswithgo 6y agoTesla's solar roof has never made sense unless you value the aesthetics of it extremely highly. Add onto that the fact that they can't deliver in a timely fashion and are being shady, I encourage anyone interested in solar to look into local installers who will do a great job, install panels that are just as effective, or more, for less money, more quickly.
- cies 6y agoThe whole roof thing was a PR stunt to begin with. It helped them to look very environmentally conscious.
- lucioperca 6y agoI do not get it. Bitumen shingles (and normale tile shingeles) and full roof pv modules seem like an ideal combination, as the modules will protect the shingles from heavy rain, wind and summer heat and will prolong the life of them for some time.
- neuronic 6y agoTesla is increasingly losing their headstart in terms of EV innovations and technology. It's time for this stupid Elon Musk personality cult to wind down with it. Big players in the car industry will slowly push Tesla out of the market in the next 10 years, as Tesla cannot compete with the logistics, expertise and reach of Toyota, Volkswagen or Fiat-Chrysler to name a few. Volkswagen is churning out very decent full class EV cars across all sectors at a much faster rate than Tesla, thanks to the MEB [1]. Do they still lack range compared to a Model whatever? Yes. Has Tesla built amazing cars for starting off from almost scratch? Yes. But an Audi e-Tron SUV feels 10x as awesome as a Model X, sorry. Hype or not it's not even close. I wouldn't even hesitate between a Model S and a Porsche Taycan either, even if things like charging infrastructure and range are considered. Going from 0 to 60 in 2.7s is what Tesla claims on the Model S P1000D. You can do that maybe one time and then the time starts stretching. The Porsche Taycan Turbo S consistently delivers this performance 10x in a row without going weak. [2, German] Right now Teslas have some edge here, others some edge there but Tesla won't survive the next 5 years of EV evolution with respect to the car industry heavy weights. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform [2] https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/test/porsche-taycan-turbo-s-tesla-model-s/ https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/test/porsche-taycan-turb...
- dbr3000 6y agoAnother reason why Tesla is likely to get in trouble at some point in the future: lack of quality control (it appears to only have gotten even worse over the past couple of years) and terrible long-term ownership experience.
- whoknew1122 6y agoIt's not surprising that Tesla over-promises, under-preforms and has to raise prices because they couldn't get things right the first time. I'm shocked that people are shocked about this. The cult of Elon is strong.