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Xinjiang cotton: Western clothes brands vanish as backlash grows
- 02020202 6y agoi love it! get political, go broke. or as it is more known, get woke, go broke. if companies want to do politics instead of business, they will have to play by different rules.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- eric4smith 6y agoInteresting. A lot of western clothing is already made in China.
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoWestern consumers seem mostly disinterested in all this - what do these companies these have to gain? This business action and news reporting seems like it is coordinated by Western intelligence agencies and Governments to discredit China. When can we ease up the geopolitical conflict and just live in peace with the other peoples of the Northern Hemisphere?
- the_dune_13 6y ago"just live in peace with the other peoples" - Does this apply to people living in China?
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoIsrael forcibly sterilised African migrants, where is the sanctions and pressure against them? https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-foribly-injected-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/?sh=174e5e5d67b8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-... Illegal immigrants pushed out their homelands by Western military action in MENA toil for illegal wages across Southern Europe in farms like this: https://www.dw.com/en/spains-sea-of-plastic-where-europe-gets-its-produce-migrants-get-exploited/a-47824476 https://www.dw.com/en/spains-sea-of-plastic-where-europe-get... The USA has a racially-motivated drug criminalisation program, which fills prisons with people who then are forced to labour for below-market wages: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/884989263 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/884989263 How about we just let countries manage their own affairs instead of continually attempting to be World Police and stirring up conflict? I would prefer to buy from Chinese businesses and sell to Chinese consumers, with trade as free and least-taxed as possible, not go to war with them.
- oreally 6y agoIndeed. Double standards are common in global politics.
- Hnrobert42 6y agoBecause the way China manages its affairs not only affects the Chinese people, but the rest of the world. Look no further than China’s encroachment on the territorial waters of the Philippines and other parts of the South China Sea. The financial advantages China gains by using forced labor, IP theft, and environmental damage provide China power which it uses to exert force on the rest of the world.
- Omnitaus 6y agoThe US owns 5 colonies iirc so by your argument we should be sanctioned
- radmuzom 6y agoGiven that Americans have committed more war crimes and human rights abuses than all other countries combined and has caused unimaginable destruction, pain and suffering in the world - I find it funny people complaining that China’s acrions are apparently affecting the world.
- the_dune_13 6y agoI mean, WW2 still counts, right?
- Hnrobert42 6y agoTwo wrongs do not make a right. This FUD will not excuse China’s criminal behavior.
- underseacables 6y agoChina is still the single greatest threat to world peace, from Tiananmen Square to ethnic cleansing, the government of China is a despotic regime of murderers. Anything the west can do to combat this, it’s a good thing, and shame on any American brand that puts profits over human rights.
- Hnrobert42 6y agoTheir gain is not being associated with exploitation and forced labor. The idea that intelligence agencies and governments would coordinate such a campaign is absurd. First, the government doesn’t have that kind over influence over corporations and news outlets. I mean, the West isn’t China after all. Second, there are far easier ways to discredit China, like point to their very real abuse of people in Hong Kong.
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoTwitter has executives who are also 'psychological warfare' officers in the British Army: "The senior Twitter executive with editorial responsibility for the Middle East is also a part-time officer in the British Army’s psychological warfare unit" https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/twitter-executive-also-part-time-officer-uk-army-psychological-warfare-unit https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/twitter-executive-also-pa...
- mytailorisrich 6y ago> The idea that intelligence agencies and governments would coordinate such a campaign is absurd. I don't think it is absurd. FUD seeds only need to be planted and social media and news outlets will be more than happy to make this viral by themselves. Once public opinion is perceiving things in a certain way the situation becomes very difficult for companies, which obviously do not want their sales or image hurt and the facts become irrelevant. This is the subtlety our Western system where influence and fabrication of narrative still exist but are much more subtle than the blunt tools used in countries like China. It is quite likely in my opinion that the Xinjiang cotton 'issue' is at the very least massively overblown. This is a modern, mechanised industry and China is not exactly short of labour so the idea that Chinese cotton is produced by forced labour seems far-fetched and it is 'interesting' that this somehow suddenly becomes such a global issue. Shooting down Chinese cotton would not only hurt China and perhaps foster unrest in Xinjiang (people would lose their jobs), which can be useful to the West, but would also serve the economic interests of China's adversaries. After all it so happens that the top 3 cotton producers are India, China, and the USA, in that order. So this is very possibly a geopolitical powerplay.
- makomk 6y ago
- subjectsigma 6y agoGoing all the way back to the cultural revolution, China's goal was to unite the world under communism. They have been the antagonist from the start. Now, I don't think China is a comic book villain - I doubt many people within the government are hatching nefarious plans to convert America to communism in 2021. But with all the horrible shit they do it seems like it sometimes. America has a huge rap sheet of bad shit it's done, but at least in Western democracies we make (slow) progress towards being more moral and equitable societies. I'm convinced China goes the other direction. With that going on I don't think neither China nor America will ever be able to overcome the current us-vs-them mentality. And tbh while I don't want a war with China, I don't think we should just accept their actions and move on.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago> Going all the way back to the cultural revolution, China's goal was to unite the world under communism. They have been the antagonist from the start. Why do you think this? Yes I know they're called the "Communist Party", but going from that to "unite the world under communism" is a big step. Kishore Mahbubani, ex-UN Security Council head, ex-Singapore diplomat, says that China is communist in name only. In reality, the CCP is more like the "Chinese Civilization Party", Mahbubani said. Their goal is to advance the interests of China, not to promote world-wide communism. The opening-up since the 80s have been relentless. It's been going on for decades and they're still further opening up. Why do you believe that their goal is to unite the world under communism?
- subjectsigma 6y agoI said their goal was to unite the world under communism, because it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split > In the late 1950s and early 1960s, Sino-Soviet debates about the interpretation of orthodox Marxism became specific disputes about the USSR's policies of national de-Stalinization and international peaceful coexistence with the Western world, which Mao decried as revisionism. Against that ideological background, China took a belligerent stance towards the West, and publicly rejected the USSR's policy of peaceful coexistence between the Eastern and Western blocs.
- alkonaut 6y agoI’m not buying any clothes from any company involved in this. It’s pretty simple. Calling out negative reporting from China as attempts to “discredit” smells. > When can we ease up the geopolitical conflict Where? Between China and the rest of the world? Or in general? When there are no systematic government sanctioned human rights violations. These aren’t exactly “internal” affairs. Just like jailing and silencing. dissenters isn’t.
- redis_mlc 6y agoI recommend reading the article to understand how dystopian the CCP is. I expected the world to flip the switch off for China over Xinjiang because of how corrosive genocide is, but it only took a few months rather than a year. AMA.
- FooBarWidget 6y agoThe article says "China is targeting more Western clothes retailers". But it should be noted that this backlash and boycotting of western clothing brands is done by Chinese people, not by the Chinese government. Many do not agree with the western narrative of forced labor cotton. This boycotting is not limited to consumers. Various celebrities are doing it too. They have terminated their contracts with western clothing brands. Interestingly, one such celebrity is Dilraba Dilmurat, a Uyghur celebrity who's very famous in China. Her company announced that they're terminating their contract with Adidas. In addition, many Chinese companies have doubled down and proclaimed that they "support Xinjiang cotton". Various people have pointed out that they do not believe the forced labor stories, because over 70% of cotton in Xinjiang is picked by machines. Whether you believe this statistic is up to you — I'm simply saying that this statistic has been mentioned. This comment is in no way meant to endorse, nor to criticize, the Xinjiang situation. I am only commenting on the facts surrounding the boycott by Chinese people.
- baybal2 6y agoI would've only said that I laught at your naivete, but the gravity of the matter doesn't allow. 100 of random celebrities make nearly word for word identical posts within hours of each other? Your naivete was exploited. This is a very typical operation by the propaganda ministry. P.S. I assume you are Chinese, and I cannot believe somebody with that level of intellectual achievement to make it to the West can't see a banal lie, when it is a joke material for local taxi drivers.
- FooBarWidget 6y agoAre they word for word identical? Can you show me? This is not meant to criticize your comment, I am truly curious about your sources. You say it's propaganda. From everything I've seen, Chinese propaganda is much more crude and much more official than that. They don't force other people — like celebrities — what to say, they broadcast via state TV channels and they put up huge banners. They have censorship, which means forbidding certain things, but I've never seen them coercing celebrities to say things they don't agree with. In general people can choose to stay quiet and not get involved. Do you have evidence that shows that the celebrity statements are coerced? Again: this is not criticism, I am truly curious about your sources. From what I understand, nationalism in China is real. Do you perhaps dispute this notion?
- croes 6y agoMaybe we should offer asylum to the Uyghurs but I think as soon they are here people stop calling the Uyghurs and just classify them as muslims. Same happened with syrian refugees.
- pjc50 6y agoPeople should keep an eye on the "BN(O)" Hong Kong visa. The UK has, perhaps surprisingly given all the anti-asylum-seeker rhetoric, decided to make a slightly easier route for HK nationals to emigrate to the UK. China has started to retaliate: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3127111/hong-kong-tells-14-countries-stop-accepting-bno-passports https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3127111... https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2021/01/29/media-factsheet-hong-kong-bnos/ https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2021/01/29/media-factshe... (£250 for five years, plus the effectively mandatory £600/year NHS surcharge, per person, plus any additional test or permit fees)
- croes 6y agoMost HK nationals aren't muslims. Muslims face another level of anti-asylum-rhetoric than HK people.
- mouzogu 6y agoAnytime I read anything critical of China the comments always seem to be full of pro China psy-ops and disinformation comments. The idea of social media armies is real although the average mainland chinese is so brainwashed they tend to hold the same beliefs anyway.
- erostrate 6y agoI downvoted you, not because I'm Chinese (I'm not) but because I think your post violates HN's guidelines.
- logotype 6y agoYep, the social media wumaos always appear to try to change the narrative, to add twisted views and to add false or irrelevant “facts”. It’s very frustrating, and it happens on all platforms. I wish HN could add a tag “Account affiliated with CCP” or something along that line. And to the people who thinks that this event wasn’t coordinated by the government - you are incredibly naive or actively lying.
- eunos 6y agoWhen your only opinion is China=Bad, everything else are psy-ops. Can't be helped.
- underseacables 6y agoHN like most of Silicon Valley is infected with Chinese disinformation, and well, spies And propaganda pawns.
- phantomathkg 6y agoI would suggest compare this incident with the Boxer Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion. Majority of the Chinese mentality haven't changed since the Qing dynasty.
- darkteflon 6y agoWhat’s being done in Xinjiang is indisputably awful. It’s also clear that the Chinese response is heavily coordinated by the state for its own political benefit. On the other hand, I reckon the average Chinese person on the street hears about corporate boycotts like this and just thinks: you Westerners are a bloody bunch of hypocrites. This week the Georgia legislature disenfranchised innumerable black people and there were two mass shootings. In the past 12 months alone, hundreds of thousands of people have died in America alone in large part due to malignant political influence, and a sitting President incited a riot in the Capitol. You can see how the issue devolves into crass nationalism pretty quickly. Anyone with any sense has been warning about Western countries allowing or causing the erosion of their own soft power in recent decades, culminating most recently with the awful person that was Donald Trump. It’s well and truly coming home to roost now.
- underseacables 6y agoYou had me until you got to Donald Trump. No president has been more critical of China and actually done more to confront China than Donald Trump.
- darkteflon 6y agoDonald Trump’s specific policy on China is a separate matter from the effect his conduct generally had on American soft power. I say this as a citizen of one of America’s closest allies.
- teknologist 6y agoLet's compare literal genocide and live organ harvesting with what happened to George Floyd and a riot in the Capitol building. Smart.
- darkteflon 6y agoNo one’s comparing those things.
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- oreally 6y agoFully expecting this thread to be a shitshow of China-bashing. BBC's articles reference Adrian Zenz as the source, who is known to be an unreliable source with regards to China. As someone who is from a small country, which can only be a kingmaker in the context of the big powers ala the US and China: You western folks are being played hard by these narratives the western institutions are spouting. The chinese are reacting like this simply because they feel they're being wronged, and they've been wronged before. The US's mission to spread democracy is not going to succeed if people feel they're being lied to. Hell, they'll even reject it.
- alkonaut 6y agoUnsure what human rights violations and protests against them (and protests against the protests) have to do with US foreign policy?
- oreally 6y agoIt can be used as a weapon of the western geopolitical world to pressure other countries as well as strengthen the positions of political figures via advocating the moralistic angle. Ever heard of countries justifying their invasions of other countries as 'liberation'? It's a similar thing. Get the public to be on your side by reframing and aligning your foreign policy.
- sol_invictus 6y agoAs someone also from a small country with no power or stakes in this equation: everybody is equally being played and if you're dualistic with your side-picking you're getting burned one way or another.
- oreally 6y agoAgreed. Still one common goal we should all get behind is reaching for something closer to the truth.