16 ms·

Gnome 40

378 points by pbui 6y ago

WoodenChair 6y ago
It looks heavily inspired by macOS. Especially if you scroll down to the “Core Apps” section. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
- zserge 6y ago
  As the one who works simultaneously with macOS and Linux, I would be happy to see some unification. I'm not speaking about visual differences or look-n-feel of the apps, but common tasks like desktop switching or window switching - things you do hundreds times a day. Those IMO should involve as little brain as possible and rely on muscle memory.
  - ziftface 6y ago
    This is my favorite thing about this update. That along with that mac hotkey tools for linux should make the transition back and forth easier.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      Mac hot key tools?
      - ziftface 6y ago
        Yeah this tool called Kinto[1] was posted on here the other day. [1]: https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto
  - happymellon 6y ago
    I want to be able to set Super+C/V to copy/paste in Linux, including the terminals rather than different key configurations depending on the context. Is this now available in Gnome?
- caslon 6y ago
  GNOME has, unfortunately, been on this train before macOS was; when Big Sur came out there were many threads on other sites pointing out how strange it was that macOS seemed to be taking after GNOME 3.
- joana035 6y ago
  It was inspired by webOS, a Linux based OS for Palm.
greatgib 6y ago
So not ergonomic and osx copycat compared to gnome 2. So sad...
Shared404 6y ago
I like the look of a lot of these changes. if the Pop!_Shell extensions get made mainline in addition to the changes here, I will probably go from disliking/tolerating vanilla GNOME to possibly daily driving.
calvinmorrison 6y ago
What's with the change over to these '40' style naming schemes? I absolutely detest it if it's not done for a real reason. Firstly, without major versions it does not single anything to end users and end developers. Is '40' still mostly compatible with the gnome 3.x.x API? Is there a major divergence between 40 and 41? Is 41 and 40 a total rewrite? 3.x.x works and there's a reason why. It conveys a lot of information quickly and is well understood. reducing things down to a single number is meaningless and clearly branding drivel. I guess they want to obfuscate as much as possible and dumb things down for users like they have been doing for close to a decade. Yawn
- dvirsky 6y ago
  Actually this numbering scheme conveys to me, intuitively, that changes are more gradual and hints at backwards compatibility. If there's no major/minor/patch semantics I just assume versions are small incremental additions. I could be wrong but that's what the browser versioning schemes have instilled in me.
  - antihero 6y ago
    Which is bizarre, because if you do want to have a breaking new version, what exactly do you do?
    - dvirsky 6y ago
      Improve existing stuff, add new stuff. That can be done with backwards compatibility if you have a well defined API. I haven't looked at Gnome's API in years so I'm not sure what's its state, but one shining example for this is Redis which is backwards compatible to 11 years ago. Another great and more relevant example is browsers.
    - bryanlarsen 6y ago
      > if you do want to have a breaking new version, what exactly do you do? You change the name. Like "Raku" instead of "Perl6". Once you've reached a certain level of stability and usage, any substantial breaking change is going to inevitably result in a fork, so embracing that up front is going to result in a much better experience.
longstation 6y ago
I just want to mention, if you feel there's some excessive padding and it's a waste of space (especially vertically), I suggest you take a look at a compact theme at GNOME Look. Currently, not all themes work properly with GTK 4, but they will eventually get there. Personally, I use the Mojave-gtk-theme. It wastes no space and is beautifully designed. [edited for grammar]
- Perizors 6y ago
  yeah, that is one of the things I do after a fresh install. I am using Nextwaita from gnome-looks. It changes very little from the vanilla gnome, except for a slighter grey color scheme and less padding.
imbnwa 6y ago
I dunno which it is, but the typography/font rendering is just jarring in these screens. I imagine there's a bunch of hacking you can do to make it look crisper/aligned but no way I'd have time for that.
- vetinari 6y ago
  Cantarell. Some consider that font a crime against humanity, on the level of MS Comic Sans or Papyrus. Canonical, could you please make the Ubuntu font really-SIL-free, so that Cantarell can be taken behind the barn and shot? Pretty please?
  - JellyBeanThief 6y ago
    God yes. I don't know why I hate it so much, but I do. Switching to Apple's San Francisco font is one of the first things I do.
    - Perizors 6y ago
      I used to do the same but even the San Francisco wouldn't look very good. I am now using Inter [1] as my system and browser font and it looks great. [1] https://rsms.me/inter/ https://rsms.me/inter/
ungzd 6y ago
Topmost bar still consists of lots of unused space with clock in the center — a design decision surely copied from old mobile phones. Too much of screen space is wasted, in the most "expensive" area, where "Rule of the infinite edges" of Fitts's law applies.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  You used to be able to stick a global menu bar up there in GNOME 2, similar to the one on macOS. I switched to Plasma because you can still do that.
- kaba0 6y ago
  And what would you put there? I do like some sway/i3-like bar with many stats, but I don’t miss that on gnome, it is sort of a feel-good thing there for me.
Aardwolf 6y ago
The open windows don't even have visible taskbar buttons in the fancy presentation it shows at the top I have no idea how you can productively work that way The reason for getting 4K monitors is not to have less stuff that can make you productive visible KDE 3.5 was the top of OSS desktops, in my opinion
- JorgeGT 6y ago
  I think I'm missing something... Where is the taskbar? Do you need that "overview" animation each time you want to bring an application to focus? And where are the menus of the focused application?
  - pmontra 6y ago
    The menus should be in the hamburger menu on the top right of each window. A time waster and a recent fad coming from small screen devices. I can't answer your other questions. Not only I don't have GNOME 40 but I greatly tweaked Ubuntu 20' GNOME to disable all animations, remove the launcher, move the top bar to the bottom, use those very same horizontal virtual desktops they introduced in 40 (hurrah) and add an old Windows like taskbar. It feels much more productive than the default settings.
    - beowulfey 6y ago
      Any reason why you did all that vs. trying something like KDE? I like Gnome default, but KDE does most of what you described by default too.
      - pmontra 6y ago
        I gave a try to KDE for a couple of months in 2014 and didn't like it. I felt I was clicking twice as much as in GNOME to accomplish the same thing. Furthermore I liked the look of GNOME more than KDE's. I kept using GNOME fallback (or flashback?) until 2018 because it worked as I like. I knew there were GNOME shell extensions to suit my needs by then so I switched to GNOME shell with Ubuntu 18.04. I never researched KDE so I don't know what became of it. A total change of DE is a big thing and could take a lot of time.
ufo 6y ago
I love that they are making the compose key feature more discoverable. It's the best way to type strange characters like å, ř or ©.
- renke1 6y ago
  Let's hope it actually reads the available combinations from ~/.XCompose. I am pretty sure that this was not the case (at least at some point in the past).
  - ufo 6y ago
    GNOME 3.38 allows adding custom sequences using the .Xcompose file. The only thing that doesn't work are include directives. I'd imagine it will be the same with GNOME 40.
- anthk 6y ago
  If you are a Romance language speaker you get tired of the local layout fast, specially for programming. A lot of people use the US+compose key for accents/ñ.
offtop5 6y ago
I feel really stupid to ask , but can I install this on Windows.
- iulian_r 6y ago
  You can only install this on windows in a VM (like Virtual Box). You also can't install it directly, you would need a Linux distribution as well. It would be easier to wait until Ubuntu or Fedora releases a new version which contains this version of GNOME. Desktop Environments on Linux are basically GUI themes.
  - EarthIsHome 6y ago
    Not only are they GUI themes, some desktop environments come packaged with different utility software. (e.g. Gnome comes with GTK-based utility software like Gedit, and KDE comes with KDE-based utility software like Kwrite.
  - offtop5 6y ago
    Has anyone ever made a Windows gui them. I need the functionality of windows, but I much tire of the way Windows looks now
    - go561192 6y ago
      Maybe this is what you are looking for? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/collections/windowsthemes https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/collections/windowsthe...
    - sagarm 6y ago
      Yes, alternative shells for Windows used to exist. Back in the ME days I used Litestep: http://litestep.net/ http://litestep.net/ No idea if they still work.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  Not sure about Gnome, but one used to be able to install KDE on windows https://www.maketecheasier.com/install-kde-in-windows/ https://www.maketecheasier.com/install-kde-in-windows/ IIRC even KDE plasma worked. But these days there are a few KDE apps on the microsoft store or on kde.org. Even if you could install that on windows (compiling everythong with cygwin?), it wouldn't really be windows, mind you.
throwaway123x2 6y ago
Still no match for Gnome 2's UI. RIP that old interface, the best of the *nix desktops.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Gnome 2 and GTK 2 have no support for HiDPI. It is possible to mitigate some of that inconvenience by using a theme where everything is scaled up (and there are tools to generate them), but there will be still GTK 2 software that looks bad.
- probably_wrong 6y ago
  You should give Mate a try then [1]. It's essentially Gnome 2 but actively maintained. [1] https://mate-desktop.org/ https://mate-desktop.org/
  - throwaway123x2 6y ago
    does it have compiz?
- greatgib 6y ago
  So far i'm using Linux Mint with Cinnamon for a few years, and it really good.
hedora 6y ago
Have they fixed the file chooser yet? Specifically, I want to be able to click around on directories to choose where to save a file, type the file name, then press enter. This should save the file, not filter the directory listing. Also, I don’t want it to default to overwriting some file I saved last week.
- brian_herman 6y ago
  I also want them to just make it so I can right click and create a new empty file. Linux is file based right? If I right click on a opened folder I want to create a file.
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    You can do that, make a folder called Templates and put your templates in there. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding.
    - brian_herman 6y ago
      I thought that was only on KDE...
- wayneftw 6y ago
  Agreed 100%. As soon as the dialog opens, I usually just want to start typing the file name to save and then press enter to save. The workaround is that I must remember to hit Alt+N to focus on the filename box before typing. Usually I forget though.
- superkuh 6y ago
  No. I actually went to GNOME's IRC network the other day to talk to them about gtkfilechooser's multiple problems. Yours, and then the lack of text input for typing or pasting file paths. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/938 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/938 . They said they have no one assigned to gtkfilechooser bugs and none will be addressed. I was able to download the debian source for a couple gtk applications (ie, gedit/pluma) and apply community sourced patches to them to get back the text/file path entry box. But there's no way I am going to be able to fix Gtk itself. And fixing every application on my system by compiling from source and making new debian packages, well, I might as well linux from scratch.
als0 6y ago
Kind of interesting and surprising that Gnome has gradually moved from a traditional Windows desktop look to a more macOS style with gestures and exposé included.
- kitsunesoba 6y ago
  Interestingly, if you take a look at old screenshots of Gnome 2.x, GTK apps have had more "mac like" layout/distribution/whitespace of controls within application windows for a very long time, even if the Gnome itself took more after Win9x in other aspects (like having a taskbar). By contrast KDE/Qt has always had a stronger Win9x feel through and through.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dopeboy 6y ago
I was brought up on Gnome but after using Cinnamon, it's hard to go back. Better applets, better window management, easier default keyboard shortcuts. Little slower, though.
naranha 6y ago
I was a bit sceptical, but I have to say that the horizontal workspaces work pretty well. Working with GNOME 40 is both efficient and aesthetically pleasing. And as a side note performance is much better too on Fedora 34.
- dsego 6y ago
  > the horizontal workspaces work pretty well Like on all the other desktops?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    AFAIK, most DEs place virtual desktops horizontally or in a grid, and I'm actually not aware of any other DEs that dynamically add new desktops as you use them rather than statically defining them up front.
    - anuragsoni 6y ago
      I believe the pantheon[1] DE has dynamic workspaces (virtual desktops) as well. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_OS
  - naranha 6y ago
    My concern was more about the animations switching workspaces being too jarring, but they are pretty smooth.
ogre_codes 6y ago
Been a few years since I’ve used Gnome, I hadn’t realized they’d pivoted so much to following MacOS. It looks like they’ve taken a lot of the best parts of MacOS and built something really nice atop it.
- joana035 6y ago
  s/MacOS/webOS/g from Palm
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    You need to check your dates. MacOS’s fundamental look has a pretty consistent chain all the way back to NextOS in the 90s. The Dock, the dot indicator, and many other core pieces are visible in versions of MacOS which predate the launch of webOS. MacOS borrows some bits from webOS as well, but the fundamental Dock layout is right out of NextStep.
    - joana035 6y ago
      I didn't mention any dates, and I believe it doesn't need to be the one who came first to inspire others ;)
      - ogre_codes 6y ago
        Well what I meant to say is they were both inspired by the OS I'm going to release next year.
- symlinkk 6y ago
  It’s been like this since Gnome 3 was released in 2011. This is why I've always been confused by people who say Linux has an “ugly, inconsistent, unprofessional” UI - to me this looks and feels better than Windows.
  - reader_mode 6y ago
    Gnome is just one part of the story - the gnome shell was always decent looking and had good themes. But the apps and the ecosystem really is ugly, messy and inconsistent. For example if you look at the controls you got with GTK out of the box in GTK3 era (when I last tried to build something with it) I remember huge paddings, unintuitive UX (the GTK file picker is the worst I've used) and poor layout controls. Go check out an app like https://inkscape.org https://inkscape.org and compare it to something like Illustrator or Gnome to Photoshop. The messy jumbled stacks of options with huge icons and paddings instead of being condensed and easy to use - most of it stems from GTK controls being bad. Now this is all with a huge disclaimer that I haven't used a Linux desktop in over 5 years at this point, maybe things got better but I doubt it - I still use Inkscape for example from time to time and Gimp on OSX and putting the non-native issues aside the apps look terrible on their own because of what I already said.
staplung 6y ago
Can you use Super (Cmd) as the modifier key yet? E.g. Cmd-c to copy?
- drEv0 6y ago
  Also curious about this. It's doubtful. Given the growing number of people coming from Apple it would be great if the DEs provided an option in settings to default to using ctrl or cmd. DEs already make similar accommodations for users coming from Windows. For instance, in KDE you can press Win+E (Explorer) and get the file manager.
- sagarm 6y ago
  I really need the opposite: the option to use control for copy/paste on Mac.
pentagrama 6y ago
Ubuntu user here. Was looking for when this GNOME version will be integrated to Ubuntu to check them out, it will not land in the next Ubuntu version. > Ubuntu 21.04 will NOT include GNOME 40. Bew Ubuntu releases typically include the newest GNOME release but this time it won’t. Why? Well, GNOME 40 features bold design changes that Ubuntu devs feel they need more time to ‘adapt’ to. [1] Overall I like the refresh, but for me the real UX test is when you use it for a week/month. Will have to wait! [1] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/01/ubuntu-21-04-release-features https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/01/ubuntu-21-04-release-fea...
onnnon 6y ago
It's interesting to see the focus on these desktop management features. I've been a long time macOS user and have never found "Launchpad", "Mission Control / Expose", or "multiple Desktops" useful in practice. I just use multiple monitors with everything I need on them in the same workspace. Do you guys actually use these features? I find the contextual switching distracting.
- cmiles74 6y ago
  I used MacOS for years, out of your list the only feature I ever really used was "multiple desktops". I would group apps roughly by function (email and messaging was on one desktop, the code editor was on another). I definitely wasn't pushing the boundaries and never used more than three desktops. In my opinion, your skepticism about the general appeal of these features seems reasonable. I would expect the average laptop owner uses these rarely if ever. People who spend a lot of time with their machine may use only one or two, I bet. Spotlight in particular seems to be eating Launchpad's lunch.
- progman32 6y ago
  KDE user, but I do the same thing in any WM. I use multiple desktops more than I use the task switcher bar. I find a spatial arrangement of related windows much more practical to maintain. Multiple monitors don't scale beyond 2 or 3.
- vsviridov 6y ago
  When on MacOS I really enjoy full screen apps with multi-finger virtual desktop switch. My workflow usually limited to one full screen browser and one full screen terminal window (with tmux inside).
- shrimp_emoji 6y ago
  I have three monitors, and recently started using multiple desktops. I can hit Meta+{1,2,3,4} to go between them or Meta+Tab on KDE. It's amazing. If my main desktop has tons of windows open, and the panel is crowded as heck with browser, file manager, text editor, and terminal windows (all of which can occupy all of your monitors when you're doing a given thing because there's that many of them), it's overwhelming. It's like browser tabs piling up out of control, except the tabs are also windows you have to maximize and minimize. Dedicating multiple desktop to multiple task (main, tinkering, work, etc.) is so much better.
qwerty456127 6y ago
If it's meant to be distraction-free then why the panel? In traditional WMs it could show running apps or the application menu you would use somewhat actively, now it only shows the clock (which I find useful but unnecessary - not worth dedicating an entire panel) and some indicators I certainly don't need to see all the time. The whole dash is also an additional entity of questionable value - I never felt like I need a full-screen launcher nor a full-screen workspace switcher.
Dig1t 6y ago
This looks really cool, but how do I get it? Is it out yet? The page is pretty unclear.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  on some of the rolling distributions (suse tumbleweed, arch, fedora rawhide) it's probably in the repos soon. Technically I guess you can go to gitlab and try to build it from source but I think that's pretty adventurous and likely going to break stuff
- ufo 6y ago
  It should eventually trickle down to the various Linux distributions. I'm waiting for Fedora 34, which is just around the corner.
z77dj3kl 6y ago
One of the best things about macOS is how well integrated the touchpad is with the desktop environment. As in, I can do the four-finger swipe to move between workspaces, and if I drag it slowly and halfway, then yank back, the animation will follow my movements exactly. Seems Gnome now has a bunch of those features. Are there any touchpads for which it's this well integrated and works? Or is it the same that it's always been: there's some kind of binary "gesture" recognizer that is then executed with a pretty animation? This is one of the biggest things keeping me on macOS at the moment.
- kaba0 6y ago
  I believe it depends on libinput which is a heroic one-man project. It can’t possibly be good on every device ever created, but it is pretty good I would say. Four-finger swipe up down works on gnome 3 already and it is a smooth motion, not a binary recognized thingy fortunately.
canada2us 6y ago
There is little usability in Gnome, just I think it is better.
dgan 6y ago
am I being too conservative using stock XFCE?.. maybe missing something
- dsego 6y ago
  support for hidpi maybe? not sure about the current status
- lproven 6y ago
  IMHO, no. I give GNOME a re-assessment every time there's a new Ubuntu release, and it seldom takes more than an hour or so (if that) to find a reason why I'm glad my work boxes run Xfce and my home ones run Unity.
devit 6y ago
Back in the GNOME 3 debut days, the joke was that GNOME 4 would be just a black screen, the ultimate result of removing superfluous options and features and making a system that is as easy to use as possible.
oshanz 6y ago
GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker.html https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna...
- 411111111111111 6y ago
  i dont even remember the last time i used a file picker to select a picture on a desktop...... i couldn't care less about this "issue", which supposedly shows that desktop linux is a "joke". he's not really convincing. (it would be a nice to have feature, yes. but his reaction is way overblown) > This is why Free desktop operating systems are a joke and haven’t been popularly adopted [...] GtkFileChooser remains broken
- hojjat12000 6y ago
  This is a dead meme. Boring and annoying specially to the Gnome developers. I have used Gnome for many years now. Never have this been an issue. If you look at the issue tracker[1], they are open to pull requests to add the thumbnail, we just need one person who cares about this feature! There are many other issues with Gnome that actually is their decision and it is a problem. This specific one is a GTK issue. But for example their decision on window decoration in wayland is just wrong and makes the whole environment look weird[2]. [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 [2] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    That seems excessively dismissive; it's hardly a dead meme while the issue remains open, boring only to the GNOME developers who have decided that little things like what users want is irrelevant, annoying only because it's been a decade with zero attempt at a solution. It's nice that you never use this feature, but unhelpful to others who do. And yes, it's terribly generous of them to be willing to consider merging a fix if someone else does the work.
    - 6y ago
ceronman 6y ago
I would like to thank the Gnome community for this release! I can't wait to upgrade to Fedora 34 to use it. I use Mac OS daily on my work computer and Gnome daily on my personal computer. Yes, I know there are a lot of Linux open source applications that are not very polished, but the quality in Gnome and its core applications is extremely high. There are even some things that Gnome does better than Mac OS. Now, you might not like Gnome and that's perfectly fine. Fortunately, Linux is the land of choice and there is an alternative for every person. It baffles me to come here and read so much negativity! Come on! this is a big milestone for a community that has been working a lot to bring you something of quality for free! They have been doing this for decades already and they have put a lot of effort and love into this. How many open source projects fail to abandonment after just a few months? Why is it that so many people in internet communities such as HN can't take a minute to appreciate the effort and instead the only thing that they are motivated to do is to nit-pick something and trash. Criticism is always welcome, there are even some appropriate channels to do it, but seriously why is this the only thing that you are able to say about a community driven product? Why is there only space for negativity? Why not a small "thanks" or "I liked that feature" before your criticism? They are bringing this thing for you for free, why can't you at least say something nice?
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  Is GNOME as a community project? My reading of https://hpjansson.org/blag/2020/12/16/on-the-graying-of-gnome/ https://hpjansson.org/blag/2020/12/16/on-the-graying-of-gnom... is that it is driven largely by Red Hat and to some degree other companies. To your general point (why attack the project): GNOME has a reputation (IMO deserved) for aggressively not caring about the opinions of users or outside projects (ex. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23795901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23795901). So at some point it comes to "GNOME hates everyone else, so everyone else hates GNOME".
  - ehwhyreally 6y ago
    Companies that charge you for their distribution are only charging for support. not really the distro, for this reason if you have a UI that shits itself on every corner it does not look good and ends up costing you more time and money, that's why it's largely driven by them.
Zren 6y ago
Is Meta+Alt+Left/Right a new standard? Last I recall was Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right in Gnome2 days (which is what I have configured it to in KDE).
SamuelAdams 6y ago
Can they add a toggle that switches between these "fat" top window bars and "skinny" top window bars? Basically strip out about 90% of the extra padding from buttons and bars and compress the UI down to what OS 10.6/7/8 use. Otherwise I always have to tack on a theme just to fix this one issue. Realistically, how many people are using Gnome on touch screen displays? Personally I always use it on a laptop so 90% of their touch screen optimizations, like bloated bars, end up wasting screen real estate.
- jeroenhd 6y ago
  Gnome and GTK are heavily opinionated towards client side decorations. That means the fat borders are part of the application, not necessarily of the desktop manager. You can make your own themes pretty easily though, if you want to change the theme. There's some quite-good-but-not-quite-there macOS themes that aren't too bad, especially with the top menu bars that Ubuntu used to have.
  - kasabali 6y ago
    Client side decorations doesn't necessitate having gigantic buttons with swath of padding.
    - jeroenhd 6y ago
      You're right, but in practice this means that the gigantic buttons are part of the application, not part of the desktop manager itself. Even if Gnome 40 tried to remove the touch-friendly buttons, it'd be up to the applications themselves to actually make the interface work like that. The buttons and styles are a choice by the developers of the applications. Often, they follow the Gnome design language (which is good, because that's how most of the Gnome ecosystem delivers a unified experience), but very often they also make their own decisions about where the buttons go and what size they are. It's possible to change a lot of this with custom themes, but changing the size of components often breaks applications or layout because the developer did not intend the size to be changed. I personally enjoy the look and feel of Gnome and I don't have any problems with the UI, but in the end my experience is dictated by the people behind the application. There are plenty of application on my system that don't follow the design language of my desktop environment, and if the Gnome design team redesigns their preferred UI, applications will have a mishmash of styles for at least a few years until things have stabilized. Had the decorations been server side, then all that needed to happen was a quick change to the theme and maybe to the rendering components and the theme would've switched.
rubyist5eva 6y ago
I installed the Fedora 34 Beta yesterday, and I am really impressed. I thought the move to a horizontal workspace from years of using the vertical one would be a big change but it really feels quite a lot better. Everything is also just snappier, more responsive and smoother overall - probably in no small part due to GTK4 being hardware accelerated now. Overall system performance is fantastic so far with Fedora 34, super excited to keep tinkering with it. Great work by the Gnome Team, and I'm super excited for the future of Gnome!
mikevm 6y ago
Gnome really needs a way to restore windows after restart (especially Nautilus windows with tabs), otherwise using multiple workspaces becomes annoying as soon as Ubuntu performs an upgrade that requires you to restart. Mac OS handles this pretty well.
- O_H_E 6y ago
  Not dismissing you comment. Just FYI. Well the nice thing is Ubuntu never forces you to restart (unless _you_ want to use a newer kernel). You can always press "later" until you are done with the work you are doing.
clircle 6y ago
Is it faster though?
loloquhwonedeo 6y ago
"Switch workspaces faster than ever with the handy new Super + Alt + Scroll shortcut." that's going to suck for left-handed mouse users as "super" tends to not be accessible with the non-mouse hand on most compact keyboards.
vfclists 6y ago
When will this be fixed - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679658#c10 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679658#c10 ?
- abenga 6y ago
  Right on there it says it's closed as WONTFIX, so you're not asking this in good faith. If it's a dealbreaker, I guess you have your answer.
4gotunameagain 6y ago
> GNOME 40 will be coming to a distribution near you in the coming weeks laughs in Debian

378 points by pbui 6y ago

It looks heavily inspired by macOS. Especially if you scroll down to the “Core Apps” section. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

zserge 6y ago
As the one who works simultaneously with macOS and Linux, I would be happy to see some unification. I'm not speaking about visual differences or look-n-feel of the apps, but common tasks like desktop switching or window switching - things you do hundreds times a day. Those IMO should involve as little brain as possible and rely on muscle memory.
- ziftface 6y ago
  This is my favorite thing about this update. That along with that mac hotkey tools for linux should make the transition back and forth easier.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Mac hot key tools?
    - ziftface 6y ago
      Yeah this tool called Kinto[1] was posted on here the other day. [1]: https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto
- happymellon 6y ago
  I want to be able to set Super+C/V to copy/paste in Linux, including the terminals rather than different key configurations depending on the context. Is this now available in Gnome?
caslon 6y ago
GNOME has, unfortunately, been on this train before macOS was; when Big Sur came out there were many threads on other sites pointing out how strange it was that macOS seemed to be taking after GNOME 3.
joana035 6y ago
It was inspired by webOS, a Linux based OS for Palm.

greatgib 6y ago

So not ergonomic and osx copycat compared to gnome 2. So sad...

Shared404 6y ago

I like the look of a lot of these changes. if the Pop!_Shell extensions get made mainline in addition to the changes here, I will probably go from disliking/tolerating vanilla GNOME to possibly daily driving.

calvinmorrison 6y ago

What's with the change over to these '40' style naming schemes? I absolutely detest it if it's not done for a real reason. Firstly, without major versions it does not single anything to end users and end developers. Is '40' still mostly compatible with the gnome 3.x.x API? Is there a major divergence between 40 and 41? Is 41 and 40 a total rewrite? 3.x.x works and there's a reason why. It conveys a lot of information quickly and is well understood. reducing things down to a single number is meaningless and clearly branding drivel. I guess they want to obfuscate as much as possible and dumb things down for users like they have been doing for close to a decade. Yawn

dvirsky 6y ago
Actually this numbering scheme conveys to me, intuitively, that changes are more gradual and hints at backwards compatibility. If there's no major/minor/patch semantics I just assume versions are small incremental additions. I could be wrong but that's what the browser versioning schemes have instilled in me.
- antihero 6y ago
  Which is bizarre, because if you do want to have a breaking new version, what exactly do you do?
  - dvirsky 6y ago
    Improve existing stuff, add new stuff. That can be done with backwards compatibility if you have a well defined API. I haven't looked at Gnome's API in years so I'm not sure what's its state, but one shining example for this is Redis which is backwards compatible to 11 years ago. Another great and more relevant example is browsers.
  - bryanlarsen 6y ago
    > if you do want to have a breaking new version, what exactly do you do? You change the name. Like "Raku" instead of "Perl6". Once you've reached a certain level of stability and usage, any substantial breaking change is going to inevitably result in a fork, so embracing that up front is going to result in a much better experience.

longstation 6y ago

I just want to mention, if you feel there's some excessive padding and it's a waste of space (especially vertically), I suggest you take a look at a compact theme at GNOME Look. Currently, not all themes work properly with GTK 4, but they will eventually get there. Personally, I use the Mojave-gtk-theme. It wastes no space and is beautifully designed. [edited for grammar]

Perizors 6y ago
yeah, that is one of the things I do after a fresh install. I am using Nextwaita from gnome-looks. It changes very little from the vanilla gnome, except for a slighter grey color scheme and less padding.

imbnwa 6y ago

I dunno which it is, but the typography/font rendering is just jarring in these screens. I imagine there's a bunch of hacking you can do to make it look crisper/aligned but no way I'd have time for that.

vetinari 6y ago
Cantarell. Some consider that font a crime against humanity, on the level of MS Comic Sans or Papyrus. Canonical, could you please make the Ubuntu font really-SIL-free, so that Cantarell can be taken behind the barn and shot? Pretty please?
- JellyBeanThief 6y ago
  God yes. I don't know why I hate it so much, but I do. Switching to Apple's San Francisco font is one of the first things I do.
  - Perizors 6y ago
    I used to do the same but even the San Francisco wouldn't look very good. I am now using Inter [1] as my system and browser font and it looks great. [1] https://rsms.me/inter/ https://rsms.me/inter/

ungzd 6y ago

Topmost bar still consists of lots of unused space with clock in the center — a design decision surely copied from old mobile phones. Too much of screen space is wasted, in the most "expensive" area, where "Rule of the infinite edges" of Fitts's law applies.

heavyset_go 6y ago
You used to be able to stick a global menu bar up there in GNOME 2, similar to the one on macOS. I switched to Plasma because you can still do that.
kaba0 6y ago
And what would you put there? I do like some sway/i3-like bar with many stats, but I don’t miss that on gnome, it is sort of a feel-good thing there for me.

Aardwolf 6y ago

The open windows don't even have visible taskbar buttons in the fancy presentation it shows at the top I have no idea how you can productively work that way The reason for getting 4K monitors is not to have less stuff that can make you productive visible KDE 3.5 was the top of OSS desktops, in my opinion

JorgeGT 6y ago
I think I'm missing something... Where is the taskbar? Do you need that "overview" animation each time you want to bring an application to focus? And where are the menus of the focused application?
- pmontra 6y ago
  The menus should be in the hamburger menu on the top right of each window. A time waster and a recent fad coming from small screen devices. I can't answer your other questions. Not only I don't have GNOME 40 but I greatly tweaked Ubuntu 20' GNOME to disable all animations, remove the launcher, move the top bar to the bottom, use those very same horizontal virtual desktops they introduced in 40 (hurrah) and add an old Windows like taskbar. It feels much more productive than the default settings.
  - beowulfey 6y ago
    Any reason why you did all that vs. trying something like KDE? I like Gnome default, but KDE does most of what you described by default too.
    - pmontra 6y ago
      I gave a try to KDE for a couple of months in 2014 and didn't like it. I felt I was clicking twice as much as in GNOME to accomplish the same thing. Furthermore I liked the look of GNOME more than KDE's. I kept using GNOME fallback (or flashback?) until 2018 because it worked as I like. I knew there were GNOME shell extensions to suit my needs by then so I switched to GNOME shell with Ubuntu 18.04. I never researched KDE so I don't know what became of it. A total change of DE is a big thing and could take a lot of time.

ufo 6y ago

I love that they are making the compose key feature more discoverable. It's the best way to type strange characters like å, ř or ©.

renke1 6y ago
Let's hope it actually reads the available combinations from ~/.XCompose. I am pretty sure that this was not the case (at least at some point in the past).
- ufo 6y ago
  GNOME 3.38 allows adding custom sequences using the .Xcompose file. The only thing that doesn't work are include directives. I'd imagine it will be the same with GNOME 40.
anthk 6y ago
If you are a Romance language speaker you get tired of the local layout fast, specially for programming. A lot of people use the US+compose key for accents/ñ.

offtop5 6y ago

I feel really stupid to ask , but can I install this on Windows.

iulian_r 6y ago
You can only install this on windows in a VM (like Virtual Box). You also can't install it directly, you would need a Linux distribution as well. It would be easier to wait until Ubuntu or Fedora releases a new version which contains this version of GNOME. Desktop Environments on Linux are basically GUI themes.
- EarthIsHome 6y ago
  Not only are they GUI themes, some desktop environments come packaged with different utility software. (e.g. Gnome comes with GTK-based utility software like Gedit, and KDE comes with KDE-based utility software like Kwrite.
- offtop5 6y ago
  Has anyone ever made a Windows gui them. I need the functionality of windows, but I much tire of the way Windows looks now
  - go561192 6y ago
    Maybe this is what you are looking for? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/collections/windowsthemes https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/collections/windowsthe...
  - sagarm 6y ago
    Yes, alternative shells for Windows used to exist. Back in the ME days I used Litestep: http://litestep.net/ http://litestep.net/ No idea if they still work.
MayeulC 6y ago
Not sure about Gnome, but one used to be able to install KDE on windows https://www.maketecheasier.com/install-kde-in-windows/ https://www.maketecheasier.com/install-kde-in-windows/ IIRC even KDE plasma worked. But these days there are a few KDE apps on the microsoft store or on kde.org. Even if you could install that on windows (compiling everythong with cygwin?), it wouldn't really be windows, mind you.

throwaway123x2 6y ago

Still no match for Gnome 2's UI. RIP that old interface, the best of the *nix desktops.

29athrowaway 6y ago
Gnome 2 and GTK 2 have no support for HiDPI. It is possible to mitigate some of that inconvenience by using a theme where everything is scaled up (and there are tools to generate them), but there will be still GTK 2 software that looks bad.
probably_wrong 6y ago
You should give Mate a try then [1]. It's essentially Gnome 2 but actively maintained. [1] https://mate-desktop.org/ https://mate-desktop.org/
- throwaway123x2 6y ago
  does it have compiz?
greatgib 6y ago
So far i'm using Linux Mint with Cinnamon for a few years, and it really good.

hedora 6y ago

Have they fixed the file chooser yet? Specifically, I want to be able to click around on directories to choose where to save a file, type the file name, then press enter. This should save the file, not filter the directory listing. Also, I don’t want it to default to overwriting some file I saved last week.

brian_herman 6y ago
I also want them to just make it so I can right click and create a new empty file. Linux is file based right? If I right click on a opened folder I want to create a file.
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  You can do that, make a folder called Templates and put your templates in there. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding.
  - brian_herman 6y ago
    I thought that was only on KDE...
wayneftw 6y ago
Agreed 100%. As soon as the dialog opens, I usually just want to start typing the file name to save and then press enter to save. The workaround is that I must remember to hit Alt+N to focus on the filename box before typing. Usually I forget though.
superkuh 6y ago
No. I actually went to GNOME's IRC network the other day to talk to them about gtkfilechooser's multiple problems. Yours, and then the lack of text input for typing or pasting file paths. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/938 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/938 . They said they have no one assigned to gtkfilechooser bugs and none will be addressed. I was able to download the debian source for a couple gtk applications (ie, gedit/pluma) and apply community sourced patches to them to get back the text/file path entry box. But there's no way I am going to be able to fix Gtk itself. And fixing every application on my system by compiling from source and making new debian packages, well, I might as well linux from scratch.

als0 6y ago

Kind of interesting and surprising that Gnome has gradually moved from a traditional Windows desktop look to a more macOS style with gestures and exposé included.

kitsunesoba 6y ago
Interestingly, if you take a look at old screenshots of Gnome 2.x, GTK apps have had more "mac like" layout/distribution/whitespace of controls within application windows for a very long time, even if the Gnome itself took more after Win9x in other aspects (like having a taskbar). By contrast KDE/Qt has always had a stronger Win9x feel through and through.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dopeboy 6y ago

I was brought up on Gnome but after using Cinnamon, it's hard to go back. Better applets, better window management, easier default keyboard shortcuts. Little slower, though.

naranha 6y ago

I was a bit sceptical, but I have to say that the horizontal workspaces work pretty well. Working with GNOME 40 is both efficient and aesthetically pleasing. And as a side note performance is much better too on Fedora 34.

dsego 6y ago
> the horizontal workspaces work pretty well Like on all the other desktops?
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  AFAIK, most DEs place virtual desktops horizontally or in a grid, and I'm actually not aware of any other DEs that dynamically add new desktops as you use them rather than statically defining them up front.
  - anuragsoni 6y ago
    I believe the pantheon[1] DE has dynamic workspaces (virtual desktops) as well. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_OS
- naranha 6y ago
  My concern was more about the animations switching workspaces being too jarring, but they are pretty smooth.

ogre_codes 6y ago

Been a few years since I’ve used Gnome, I hadn’t realized they’d pivoted so much to following MacOS. It looks like they’ve taken a lot of the best parts of MacOS and built something really nice atop it.

joana035 6y ago
s/MacOS/webOS/g from Palm
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  You need to check your dates. MacOS’s fundamental look has a pretty consistent chain all the way back to NextOS in the 90s. The Dock, the dot indicator, and many other core pieces are visible in versions of MacOS which predate the launch of webOS. MacOS borrows some bits from webOS as well, but the fundamental Dock layout is right out of NextStep.
  - joana035 6y ago
    I didn't mention any dates, and I believe it doesn't need to be the one who came first to inspire others ;)
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Well what I meant to say is they were both inspired by the OS I'm going to release next year.
symlinkk 6y ago
It’s been like this since Gnome 3 was released in 2011. This is why I've always been confused by people who say Linux has an “ugly, inconsistent, unprofessional” UI - to me this looks and feels better than Windows.
- reader_mode 6y ago
  Gnome is just one part of the story - the gnome shell was always decent looking and had good themes. But the apps and the ecosystem really is ugly, messy and inconsistent. For example if you look at the controls you got with GTK out of the box in GTK3 era (when I last tried to build something with it) I remember huge paddings, unintuitive UX (the GTK file picker is the worst I've used) and poor layout controls. Go check out an app like https://inkscape.org https://inkscape.org and compare it to something like Illustrator or Gnome to Photoshop. The messy jumbled stacks of options with huge icons and paddings instead of being condensed and easy to use - most of it stems from GTK controls being bad. Now this is all with a huge disclaimer that I haven't used a Linux desktop in over 5 years at this point, maybe things got better but I doubt it - I still use Inkscape for example from time to time and Gimp on OSX and putting the non-native issues aside the apps look terrible on their own because of what I already said.

staplung 6y ago

Can you use Super (Cmd) as the modifier key yet? E.g. Cmd-c to copy?

drEv0 6y ago
Also curious about this. It's doubtful. Given the growing number of people coming from Apple it would be great if the DEs provided an option in settings to default to using ctrl or cmd. DEs already make similar accommodations for users coming from Windows. For instance, in KDE you can press Win+E (Explorer) and get the file manager.
sagarm 6y ago
I really need the opposite: the option to use control for copy/paste on Mac.

pentagrama 6y ago

Ubuntu user here. Was looking for when this GNOME version will be integrated to Ubuntu to check them out, it will not land in the next Ubuntu version. > Ubuntu 21.04 will NOT include GNOME 40. Bew Ubuntu releases typically include the newest GNOME release but this time it won’t. Why? Well, GNOME 40 features bold design changes that Ubuntu devs feel they need more time to ‘adapt’ to. [1] Overall I like the refresh, but for me the real UX test is when you use it for a week/month. Will have to wait! [1] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/01/ubuntu-21-04-release-features https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/01/ubuntu-21-04-release-fea...

onnnon 6y ago

It's interesting to see the focus on these desktop management features. I've been a long time macOS user and have never found "Launchpad", "Mission Control / Expose", or "multiple Desktops" useful in practice. I just use multiple monitors with everything I need on them in the same workspace. Do you guys actually use these features? I find the contextual switching distracting.

cmiles74 6y ago
I used MacOS for years, out of your list the only feature I ever really used was "multiple desktops". I would group apps roughly by function (email and messaging was on one desktop, the code editor was on another). I definitely wasn't pushing the boundaries and never used more than three desktops. In my opinion, your skepticism about the general appeal of these features seems reasonable. I would expect the average laptop owner uses these rarely if ever. People who spend a lot of time with their machine may use only one or two, I bet. Spotlight in particular seems to be eating Launchpad's lunch.
progman32 6y ago
KDE user, but I do the same thing in any WM. I use multiple desktops more than I use the task switcher bar. I find a spatial arrangement of related windows much more practical to maintain. Multiple monitors don't scale beyond 2 or 3.
vsviridov 6y ago
When on MacOS I really enjoy full screen apps with multi-finger virtual desktop switch. My workflow usually limited to one full screen browser and one full screen terminal window (with tmux inside).
shrimp_emoji 6y ago
I have three monitors, and recently started using multiple desktops. I can hit Meta+{1,2,3,4} to go between them or Meta+Tab on KDE. It's amazing. If my main desktop has tons of windows open, and the panel is crowded as heck with browser, file manager, text editor, and terminal windows (all of which can occupy all of your monitors when you're doing a given thing because there's that many of them), it's overwhelming. It's like browser tabs piling up out of control, except the tabs are also windows you have to maximize and minimize. Dedicating multiple desktop to multiple task (main, tinkering, work, etc.) is so much better.

qwerty456127 6y ago

If it's meant to be distraction-free then why the panel? In traditional WMs it could show running apps or the application menu you would use somewhat actively, now it only shows the clock (which I find useful but unnecessary - not worth dedicating an entire panel) and some indicators I certainly don't need to see all the time. The whole dash is also an additional entity of questionable value - I never felt like I need a full-screen launcher nor a full-screen workspace switcher.

Dig1t 6y ago

This looks really cool, but how do I get it? Is it out yet? The page is pretty unclear.

Barrin92 6y ago
on some of the rolling distributions (suse tumbleweed, arch, fedora rawhide) it's probably in the repos soon. Technically I guess you can go to gitlab and try to build it from source but I think that's pretty adventurous and likely going to break stuff
ufo 6y ago
It should eventually trickle down to the various Linux distributions. I'm waiting for Fedora 34, which is just around the corner.

z77dj3kl 6y ago

One of the best things about macOS is how well integrated the touchpad is with the desktop environment. As in, I can do the four-finger swipe to move between workspaces, and if I drag it slowly and halfway, then yank back, the animation will follow my movements exactly. Seems Gnome now has a bunch of those features. Are there any touchpads for which it's this well integrated and works? Or is it the same that it's always been: there's some kind of binary "gesture" recognizer that is then executed with a pretty animation? This is one of the biggest things keeping me on macOS at the moment.

kaba0 6y ago
I believe it depends on libinput which is a heroic one-man project. It can’t possibly be good on every device ever created, but it is pretty good I would say. Four-finger swipe up down works on gnome 3 already and it is a smooth motion, not a binary recognized thingy fortunately.

canada2us 6y ago

There is little usability in Gnome, just I think it is better.

dgan 6y ago

am I being too conservative using stock XFCE?.. maybe missing something

dsego 6y ago
support for hidpi maybe? not sure about the current status
lproven 6y ago
IMHO, no. I give GNOME a re-assessment every time there's a new Ubuntu release, and it seldom takes more than an hour or so (if that) to find a reason why I'm glad my work boxes run Xfce and my home ones run Unity.

devit 6y ago

Back in the GNOME 3 debut days, the joke was that GNOME 4 would be just a black screen, the ultimate result of removing superfluous options and features and making a system that is as easy to use as possible.

oshanz 6y ago

GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker.html https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna...

411111111111111 6y ago
i dont even remember the last time i used a file picker to select a picture on a desktop...... i couldn't care less about this "issue", which supposedly shows that desktop linux is a "joke". he's not really convincing. (it would be a nice to have feature, yes. but his reaction is way overblown) > This is why Free desktop operating systems are a joke and haven’t been popularly adopted [...] GtkFileChooser remains broken
hojjat12000 6y ago
This is a dead meme. Boring and annoying specially to the Gnome developers. I have used Gnome for many years now. Never have this been an issue. If you look at the issue tracker[1], they are open to pull requests to add the thumbnail, we just need one person who cares about this feature! There are many other issues with Gnome that actually is their decision and it is a problem. This specific one is a GTK issue. But for example their decision on window decoration in wayland is just wrong and makes the whole environment look weird[2]. [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 [2] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  That seems excessively dismissive; it's hardly a dead meme while the issue remains open, boring only to the GNOME developers who have decided that little things like what users want is irrelevant, annoying only because it's been a decade with zero attempt at a solution. It's nice that you never use this feature, but unhelpful to others who do. And yes, it's terribly generous of them to be willing to consider merging a fix if someone else does the work.
  - 6y ago

ceronman 6y ago

I would like to thank the Gnome community for this release! I can't wait to upgrade to Fedora 34 to use it. I use Mac OS daily on my work computer and Gnome daily on my personal computer. Yes, I know there are a lot of Linux open source applications that are not very polished, but the quality in Gnome and its core applications is extremely high. There are even some things that Gnome does better than Mac OS. Now, you might not like Gnome and that's perfectly fine. Fortunately, Linux is the land of choice and there is an alternative for every person. It baffles me to come here and read so much negativity! Come on! this is a big milestone for a community that has been working a lot to bring you something of quality for free! They have been doing this for decades already and they have put a lot of effort and love into this. How many open source projects fail to abandonment after just a few months? Why is it that so many people in internet communities such as HN can't take a minute to appreciate the effort and instead the only thing that they are motivated to do is to nit-pick something and trash. Criticism is always welcome, there are even some appropriate channels to do it, but seriously why is this the only thing that you are able to say about a community driven product? Why is there only space for negativity? Why not a small "thanks" or "I liked that feature" before your criticism? They are bringing this thing for you for free, why can't you at least say something nice?

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
Is GNOME as a community project? My reading of https://hpjansson.org/blag/2020/12/16/on-the-graying-of-gnome/ https://hpjansson.org/blag/2020/12/16/on-the-graying-of-gnom... is that it is driven largely by Red Hat and to some degree other companies. To your general point (why attack the project): GNOME has a reputation (IMO deserved) for aggressively not caring about the opinions of users or outside projects (ex. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23795901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23795901). So at some point it comes to "GNOME hates everyone else, so everyone else hates GNOME".
- ehwhyreally 6y ago
  Companies that charge you for their distribution are only charging for support. not really the distro, for this reason if you have a UI that shits itself on every corner it does not look good and ends up costing you more time and money, that's why it's largely driven by them.

Zren 6y ago

Is Meta+Alt+Left/Right a new standard? Last I recall was Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right in Gnome2 days (which is what I have configured it to in KDE).

SamuelAdams 6y ago

Can they add a toggle that switches between these "fat" top window bars and "skinny" top window bars? Basically strip out about 90% of the extra padding from buttons and bars and compress the UI down to what OS 10.6/7/8 use. Otherwise I always have to tack on a theme just to fix this one issue. Realistically, how many people are using Gnome on touch screen displays? Personally I always use it on a laptop so 90% of their touch screen optimizations, like bloated bars, end up wasting screen real estate.

jeroenhd 6y ago
Gnome and GTK are heavily opinionated towards client side decorations. That means the fat borders are part of the application, not necessarily of the desktop manager. You can make your own themes pretty easily though, if you want to change the theme. There's some quite-good-but-not-quite-there macOS themes that aren't too bad, especially with the top menu bars that Ubuntu used to have.
- kasabali 6y ago
  Client side decorations doesn't necessitate having gigantic buttons with swath of padding.
  - jeroenhd 6y ago
    You're right, but in practice this means that the gigantic buttons are part of the application, not part of the desktop manager itself. Even if Gnome 40 tried to remove the touch-friendly buttons, it'd be up to the applications themselves to actually make the interface work like that. The buttons and styles are a choice by the developers of the applications. Often, they follow the Gnome design language (which is good, because that's how most of the Gnome ecosystem delivers a unified experience), but very often they also make their own decisions about where the buttons go and what size they are. It's possible to change a lot of this with custom themes, but changing the size of components often breaks applications or layout because the developer did not intend the size to be changed. I personally enjoy the look and feel of Gnome and I don't have any problems with the UI, but in the end my experience is dictated by the people behind the application. There are plenty of application on my system that don't follow the design language of my desktop environment, and if the Gnome design team redesigns their preferred UI, applications will have a mishmash of styles for at least a few years until things have stabilized. Had the decorations been server side, then all that needed to happen was a quick change to the theme and maybe to the rendering components and the theme would've switched.

rubyist5eva 6y ago

I installed the Fedora 34 Beta yesterday, and I am really impressed. I thought the move to a horizontal workspace from years of using the vertical one would be a big change but it really feels quite a lot better. Everything is also just snappier, more responsive and smoother overall - probably in no small part due to GTK4 being hardware accelerated now. Overall system performance is fantastic so far with Fedora 34, super excited to keep tinkering with it. Great work by the Gnome Team, and I'm super excited for the future of Gnome!

mikevm 6y ago

Gnome really needs a way to restore windows after restart (especially Nautilus windows with tabs), otherwise using multiple workspaces becomes annoying as soon as Ubuntu performs an upgrade that requires you to restart. Mac OS handles this pretty well.

O_H_E 6y ago
Not dismissing you comment. Just FYI. Well the nice thing is Ubuntu never forces you to restart (unless _you_ want to use a newer kernel). You can always press "later" until you are done with the work you are doing.

clircle 6y ago

Is it faster though?

loloquhwonedeo 6y ago

"Switch workspaces faster than ever with the handy new Super + Alt + Scroll shortcut." that's going to suck for left-handed mouse users as "super" tends to not be accessible with the non-mouse hand on most compact keyboards.

vfclists 6y ago

When will this be fixed - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679658#c10 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679658#c10 ?

abenga 6y ago
Right on there it says it's closed as WONTFIX, so you're not asking this in good faith. If it's a dealbreaker, I guess you have your answer.

4gotunameagain 6y ago

> GNOME 40 will be coming to a distribution near you in the coming weeks laughs in Debian