5 ms·

15 years ago, if I had said that society would build a tracking system and that most people would happily carry a tracker in their pocket and pay monthly fees t

by _wldu 6y ago

15 years ago, if I had said that society would build a tracking system and that most people would happily carry a tracker in their pocket and pay monthly fees to support the tracking networks, I would have been laughed out of the room. But that is what happened, and most people are oblivious to this fact.

poink 6y ago
I don't think, "Most people are oblivious," they just don't care and/or don't understand the implications. The idea that the government can use your mobile phone to spy on you is so widely understood that even the dumbest popcorn movies make sure to show fugitives ditching their phones and criminals collecting/discarding them before they discuss business without explaining why. Everybody understands the purpose of a "burner" phone.
- _wldu 6y ago
  Yes, most everyone knows that they can be tracked. The point is that we voluntarily paid/pay to build and maintain the tracking infrastructure. That's what most people don't realize.
- tw04 6y ago
  >I don't think, "Most people are oblivious," they just don't care and/or don't understand the implications. But they do, that's what's baffling. The number of people I have heard parrot the "Bill Gates put a tracking chip in the vaccine" has me both baffled and worried. These are people who appear to be otherwise completely sane and mostly rational. When I've pointed out that's literally what their phone does, so why would Bill Gates waste any money putting something in a vaccine (ignoring that's not even physically possible) - I get a "well that's different". They are concerned, but as a non-technical person for some reason they just can't quite wrap their heads around what is happening.
  - mbg721 6y ago
    They can, but they wish it weren't true. Cell phones have an obvious huge upside, and society has adjusted itself so that you pretty much have to have one. (Ever asked to use somebody's phone?). Meanwhile, one of these technocrats is pushing a vaccine that might as well be magic, developed in an unusually short time, to cure a disease that people think might occasionally kill somebody else, but probably not them. The response makes complete sense.
    - clankyclanker 6y ago
      Would it not lead to a horrifying dystopia, it wold be interesting to see how the response changed it the vaccine were marketed as a status symbol.
      - jfengel 6y ago
        It is notable that vaccine acceptance has gone up now that it is widely available, which also coincides with the departure of an influential politician who had been downplaying the significance of the disease. It's hard to disentangle the two effects, but there is a burgeoning symbol of status in people literally displaying their vaccine cards. It hasn't completely undone the damage, but it does seem to ameliorate it.
  - brokenmachine 6y ago
    >But they do, that's what's baffling I think it's more that there's no other option. They need their phone, and they don't like all the tracking just like you or I don't like the tracking, but that's their only option if they want to use a phone.
christophilus 6y ago
I watched Citizen of the State recently, and the paranoid old man in that movie looks like a normie today.
- ISL 6y ago
  I think you mean Enemy of the State? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film)
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    >> Citizen of the State > I think you mean Enemy of the State? Given the topic of mass surveillance, this doesn't sound like much of a distinction...
bzzzt 6y ago
I don't know if people are oblivious - it's just that there are a lot of perceived benefits for the user of the 'tracking device'. Tracking people is a byproduct of all the services a modern phone offers (due to technical or monetization reasons).
fsflover 6y ago
Most people simply have no choice unless you are willing to switch to GNU/Linux phones. Those are not 100% ready for everything yet.
- mannerheim 6y ago
  Not a silver bullet unless you never let your phone talk to a cell tower - in which case it stops being a phone and starts being a miniature tablet.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    At least with Librem 5 you can use the hardware kill switch whenever you need privacy.
- grishka 6y ago
  It doesn't matter what your phone runs. As long as it's communicating with the network, the carrier knows its location.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Cell towers is far from the only tracking possibility.
    - grishka 6y ago
      Yes but it's the only one that's a requirement if you want to actually use your phone.
snarf21 6y ago
"Hey wiretap, can bunnies eat pancakes?"
api 6y ago
Those devices have addictive properties, especially casual mobile games and social media. In the past addictive properties were enough to get people to do absurd things like roll up leaves, light them on fire, and deliberately huff the smoke. That's arguably more harmful than what mobile devices do to us.
mFixman 6y ago
15 years ago was 2006. Almost every adult carried a cellphone everywhere back then.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  I certainly didn't. But will concede I was definitely a late adopter.
  - DerekL 6y ago
    It was 66%. Most adults, but less than “almost every”. https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/
marcosdumay 6y ago
15 years ago people did carry a tracker on their pocket already.

by _wldu 6y ago

poink 6y ago

I don't think, "Most people are oblivious," they just don't care and/or don't understand the implications. The idea that the government can use your mobile phone to spy on you is so widely understood that even the dumbest popcorn movies make sure to show fugitives ditching their phones and criminals collecting/discarding them before they discuss business without explaining why. Everybody understands the purpose of a "burner" phone.

_wldu 6y ago
Yes, most everyone knows that they can be tracked. The point is that we voluntarily paid/pay to build and maintain the tracking infrastructure. That's what most people don't realize.
tw04 6y ago
>I don't think, "Most people are oblivious," they just don't care and/or don't understand the implications. But they do, that's what's baffling. The number of people I have heard parrot the "Bill Gates put a tracking chip in the vaccine" has me both baffled and worried. These are people who appear to be otherwise completely sane and mostly rational. When I've pointed out that's literally what their phone does, so why would Bill Gates waste any money putting something in a vaccine (ignoring that's not even physically possible) - I get a "well that's different". They are concerned, but as a non-technical person for some reason they just can't quite wrap their heads around what is happening.
- mbg721 6y ago
  They can, but they wish it weren't true. Cell phones have an obvious huge upside, and society has adjusted itself so that you pretty much have to have one. (Ever asked to use somebody's phone?). Meanwhile, one of these technocrats is pushing a vaccine that might as well be magic, developed in an unusually short time, to cure a disease that people think might occasionally kill somebody else, but probably not them. The response makes complete sense.
  - clankyclanker 6y ago
    Would it not lead to a horrifying dystopia, it wold be interesting to see how the response changed it the vaccine were marketed as a status symbol.
    - jfengel 6y ago
      It is notable that vaccine acceptance has gone up now that it is widely available, which also coincides with the departure of an influential politician who had been downplaying the significance of the disease. It's hard to disentangle the two effects, but there is a burgeoning symbol of status in people literally displaying their vaccine cards. It hasn't completely undone the damage, but it does seem to ameliorate it.
- brokenmachine 6y ago
  >But they do, that's what's baffling I think it's more that there's no other option. They need their phone, and they don't like all the tracking just like you or I don't like the tracking, but that's their only option if they want to use a phone.

christophilus 6y ago

I watched Citizen of the State recently, and the paranoid old man in that movie looks like a normie today.

ISL 6y ago
I think you mean Enemy of the State? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film)
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  >> Citizen of the State > I think you mean Enemy of the State? Given the topic of mass surveillance, this doesn't sound like much of a distinction...

bzzzt 6y ago

I don't know if people are oblivious - it's just that there are a lot of perceived benefits for the user of the 'tracking device'. Tracking people is a byproduct of all the services a modern phone offers (due to technical or monetization reasons).

fsflover 6y ago

Most people simply have no choice unless you are willing to switch to GNU/Linux phones. Those are not 100% ready for everything yet.

mannerheim 6y ago
Not a silver bullet unless you never let your phone talk to a cell tower - in which case it stops being a phone and starts being a miniature tablet.
- fsflover 6y ago
  At least with Librem 5 you can use the hardware kill switch whenever you need privacy.
grishka 6y ago
It doesn't matter what your phone runs. As long as it's communicating with the network, the carrier knows its location.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Cell towers is far from the only tracking possibility.
  - grishka 6y ago
    Yes but it's the only one that's a requirement if you want to actually use your phone.

snarf21 6y ago

"Hey wiretap, can bunnies eat pancakes?"

api 6y ago

Those devices have addictive properties, especially casual mobile games and social media. In the past addictive properties were enough to get people to do absurd things like roll up leaves, light them on fire, and deliberately huff the smoke. That's arguably more harmful than what mobile devices do to us.

mFixman 6y ago

15 years ago was 2006. Almost every adult carried a cellphone everywhere back then.

maerF0x0 6y ago
I certainly didn't. But will concede I was definitely a late adopter.
- DerekL 6y ago
  It was 66%. Most adults, but less than “almost every”. https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/

marcosdumay 6y ago

15 years ago people did carry a tracker on their pocket already.