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I have many British friends who were absolutely against this, I also know a former boss who was very public about his Brexit vote and like many of those who vot

I have many British friends who were absolutely against this, I also know a former boss who was very public about his Brexit vote and like many of those who voted for it, will be too old to have to deal with the consequences of this decision. If anything I think it is rather unfair to hear people from other EU countries treating this process as something along the lines of 'suits them' and 'they've made their bed'. When in reality a large chunk of them have pretty much not agreed to any of this but are still set to suffer the consequences.

krageon 6y ago
> a large chunk of them have pretty much not agreed Yes, but a far larger chunk has. Every country gets the leaders it deserves and the UK is no exception.
- modo_mario 6y ago
  Tbh simply based on the amount of elderly voters that died since it's likely that majority is gone by now. At least so I've read in some article months ago. All things considered it was relatively close so not exactly a far larger chunk. I don't have any spite towards the British people but I do hope that the EU will act in EU interest which means facilitating the return of financial services that shifted towards London since they joined and not letting the UK and whatever the borderdeal ends up as serve as a loop to ignore single market regulations.
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    From 2018: "there are some demographic trends that will influence opinion in future. These changes will tend to pull British public opinion in a pro-European direction, and should be sufficient to produce a majority of 52%-48% for ‘Remain’ in 2021" https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/05/01/demographic-trends-will-pull-british-public-opinion-in-a-pro-european-direction/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/05/01/demographic-trends...
  - blibble 6y ago
    Leave would likely win by a bigger majority if the referendum was repeated today, because the UK didn't collapse on leaving also add the EU's disastrous vaccine procurement scheme, combined with its attempt to obscure its total incompetence with petulant nationalistic flailing
- user-the-name 6y ago
  Not really. 37% of the electorate at the time voted for Brexit. The rest have not really "agreed" to it. Also, since then, many people have come of age who did not get to vote in the election.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    I didn't get to vote in the original election to join the EU, so can we re-run that one too?
callamdelaney 6y ago
I'm 24 and voted for brexit. In fact I campaigned for it and would do so again. It's really a very poor form to resort to the "dumb old racists voted for brexit hurr".
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  I think the fact that dumb old racists voted for Brexit doesn’t preclude that dumb young people also voted for it. They’re probably less racist though.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  This isn't the racist angle, It's the angle where the "consequences" are the only worthy consideration.
- Eszik 6y ago
  I mean, 73% of the 18-24 and 62% of the 25-34 voted remain, whereas 60% of the 55+ voted leave. Statistically, it's a pretty valid point.
  - callamdelaney 6y ago
    73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason?
    - Eszik 6y ago
      > 73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? I haven't done the math, so I won't make assumptions, but I would bet the percentages from the polls roughly match up with the actual results from the referendum > Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason? That's an entirely different point, you're just moving the goalposts now. The question isn't whether young people were justified in voting remain, the question is did they vote remain.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
noir_lord 6y ago
I was strongly remain, 48% of us where, if the vote had been a year later it could quite easily have been 52/48 the other way. One wonders if remain had one if the leave campaign would have accepted "The vote was clear, put up with it and shut up". I completely understand why EU governments would be absolutely fed up with the UK government though. Sadly my generation (40 and younger) are going to have to live the consequences of something we didn't vote for (49 and younger voted remain getting more strongly remain as you go younger) - it's absolutely frustrating.
- arethuza 6y ago
  Nigel Farage made it clear that he wouldn't accept 52-48 as being decisive: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-3630668...
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    Farage could continue campaigning if he wishes, but its not up to him. It's also apparent to me that the remain camp did keep fighting Brexit tooth & nail much like Farage might have, so I guess we have symmetry.
  - callamdelaney 6y ago
    The difference is that the referendum was stacked against leave in every conceivable way. For example, the remain campaign had £6m more to work with. On top of this the government spent £9m on pro remain leaflets and social media advertising. Add onto this the fact that the government wheeled out every 'expert' it could find to constantly cry about how bad brexit would be - most of them were lying (Mark Carney, George Osbourne in particular told lies of the most astounding nature - for example that brexit would cause more damage to the economy than WW2? Think about that for a minute.). If anything the establishment was stacked against brexit.
    - arethuza 6y ago
Viliam1234 6y ago
> If anything I think it is rather unfair to hear people from other EU countries treating this process as something along the lines of 'suits them' and 'they've made their bed'. From my perspective, it's more like "it was inevitable". The people pushing for Brexit would never give up. So the choice was either leave now, or keep talking for the following years/decades/centuries about how the evil EU oppresses the UK, and how everything in UK would be perfect if only... In some way, it reminds me of dissolution of Czechoslovakia. I was not happy about that either, but realistically, the choice was either do it now, or keep forever listening to voices on both sides about how all problems are caused by the other half and everything would be perfect (though probably disastrous for the other half) if only... Once you have a major fraction of your population -- and it doesn't make a difference whether it's 48% or 52% -- believing they are being oppressed, it becomes unfalsifiable. Every time something bad happens, you have an explanation ready, and it doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not, believing that it is all someone else's fault is always popular. If the lesson from Czechoslovakia applies here, at the end none of the prophecies of heaven or hell came true, both sides continue living their boring lives. The only change is that now when something bad happens, this one excuse is no longer available. So, my guess is that after Brexit, the life in EU will more or less remain the same, and the life in UK will more or less remain the same, with the exception that "everything would be perfect if only EU stopped interfering with our perfect country" will disappear from political speech.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  "everything would be perfect if only EU stopped interfering with our perfect country" will disappear from political speech. That doesn't seem to be disappearing. My guess is we will be hearing a lot more about the EU for the foreseeable future.
  - Viliam1234 6y ago
    One or two election cycles, but afterwards it will be too boring to hear the same excuses. Soon after dissolution of Czechoslovakia, people in Slovakia blamed Czechs for all kinds of things. (We had an agreement that neither side will use the old federal flag; they kept it. We had an agreement that the national treasure will be split proportionally; they decided to keep it all. Plus a few more things. I am sure the other side also had their complaints.) A decade later, after most politicians from that era retired, no one mentioned this anymore. People who were not yet adult during the federation simply don't care; it's ancient history for them, like complaining that your garden does not have nice flowers because dinosaurs once stomped on it. Yeah, but what did you do about it since then; you had enough time to do something, right? I feel like an old person just for mentioning the old issues. Similarly, ten or twenty years later, Farage will be just some uncool old grandpa no one cares about. It may be hard to imagine, but it will happen.

krageon 6y ago

> a large chunk of them have pretty much not agreed Yes, but a far larger chunk has. Every country gets the leaders it deserves and the UK is no exception.

modo_mario 6y ago
Tbh simply based on the amount of elderly voters that died since it's likely that majority is gone by now. At least so I've read in some article months ago. All things considered it was relatively close so not exactly a far larger chunk. I don't have any spite towards the British people but I do hope that the EU will act in EU interest which means facilitating the return of financial services that shifted towards London since they joined and not letting the UK and whatever the borderdeal ends up as serve as a loop to ignore single market regulations.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  From 2018: "there are some demographic trends that will influence opinion in future. These changes will tend to pull British public opinion in a pro-European direction, and should be sufficient to produce a majority of 52%-48% for ‘Remain’ in 2021" https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/05/01/demographic-trends-will-pull-british-public-opinion-in-a-pro-european-direction/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/05/01/demographic-trends...
- blibble 6y ago
  Leave would likely win by a bigger majority if the referendum was repeated today, because the UK didn't collapse on leaving also add the EU's disastrous vaccine procurement scheme, combined with its attempt to obscure its total incompetence with petulant nationalistic flailing
user-the-name 6y ago
Not really. 37% of the electorate at the time voted for Brexit. The rest have not really "agreed" to it. Also, since then, many people have come of age who did not get to vote in the election.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  I didn't get to vote in the original election to join the EU, so can we re-run that one too?

callamdelaney 6y ago

I'm 24 and voted for brexit. In fact I campaigned for it and would do so again. It's really a very poor form to resort to the "dumb old racists voted for brexit hurr".

matthewmacleod 6y ago
I think the fact that dumb old racists voted for Brexit doesn’t preclude that dumb young people also voted for it. They’re probably less racist though.
Chris2048 6y ago
This isn't the racist angle, It's the angle where the "consequences" are the only worthy consideration.
Eszik 6y ago
I mean, 73% of the 18-24 and 62% of the 25-34 voted remain, whereas 60% of the 55+ voted leave. Statistically, it's a pretty valid point.
- callamdelaney 6y ago
  73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason?
  - Eszik 6y ago
    > 73% of 18-24 year olds say they voted remain, but did they actually show up? I haven't done the math, so I won't make assumptions, but I would bet the percentages from the polls roughly match up with the actual results from the referendum > Also did they vote remain because it's cool or did they actually have some other reason? That's an entirely different point, you're just moving the goalposts now. The question isn't whether young people were justified in voting remain, the question is did they vote remain.
DoingIsLearning 6y ago

noir_lord 6y ago

I was strongly remain, 48% of us where, if the vote had been a year later it could quite easily have been 52/48 the other way. One wonders if remain had one if the leave campaign would have accepted "The vote was clear, put up with it and shut up". I completely understand why EU governments would be absolutely fed up with the UK government though. Sadly my generation (40 and younger) are going to have to live the consequences of something we didn't vote for (49 and younger voted remain getting more strongly remain as you go younger) - it's absolutely frustrating.

arethuza 6y ago
Nigel Farage made it clear that he wouldn't accept 52-48 as being decisive: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-3630668...
- Chris2048 6y ago
  Farage could continue campaigning if he wishes, but its not up to him. It's also apparent to me that the remain camp did keep fighting Brexit tooth & nail much like Farage might have, so I guess we have symmetry.
- callamdelaney 6y ago
  The difference is that the referendum was stacked against leave in every conceivable way. For example, the remain campaign had £6m more to work with. On top of this the government spent £9m on pro remain leaflets and social media advertising. Add onto this the fact that the government wheeled out every 'expert' it could find to constantly cry about how bad brexit would be - most of them were lying (Mark Carney, George Osbourne in particular told lies of the most astounding nature - for example that brexit would cause more damage to the economy than WW2? Think about that for a minute.). If anything the establishment was stacked against brexit.
  - arethuza 6y ago

Viliam1234 6y ago

> If anything I think it is rather unfair to hear people from other EU countries treating this process as something along the lines of 'suits them' and 'they've made their bed'. From my perspective, it's more like "it was inevitable". The people pushing for Brexit would never give up. So the choice was either leave now, or keep talking for the following years/decades/centuries about how the evil EU oppresses the UK, and how everything in UK would be perfect if only... In some way, it reminds me of dissolution of Czechoslovakia. I was not happy about that either, but realistically, the choice was either do it now, or keep forever listening to voices on both sides about how all problems are caused by the other half and everything would be perfect (though probably disastrous for the other half) if only... Once you have a major fraction of your population -- and it doesn't make a difference whether it's 48% or 52% -- believing they are being oppressed, it becomes unfalsifiable. Every time something bad happens, you have an explanation ready, and it doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not, believing that it is all someone else's fault is always popular. If the lesson from Czechoslovakia applies here, at the end none of the prophecies of heaven or hell came true, both sides continue living their boring lives. The only change is that now when something bad happens, this one excuse is no longer available. So, my guess is that after Brexit, the life in EU will more or less remain the same, and the life in UK will more or less remain the same, with the exception that "everything would be perfect if only EU stopped interfering with our perfect country" will disappear from political speech.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
"everything would be perfect if only EU stopped interfering with our perfect country" will disappear from political speech. That doesn't seem to be disappearing. My guess is we will be hearing a lot more about the EU for the foreseeable future.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  One or two election cycles, but afterwards it will be too boring to hear the same excuses. Soon after dissolution of Czechoslovakia, people in Slovakia blamed Czechs for all kinds of things. (We had an agreement that neither side will use the old federal flag; they kept it. We had an agreement that the national treasure will be split proportionally; they decided to keep it all. Plus a few more things. I am sure the other side also had their complaints.) A decade later, after most politicians from that era retired, no one mentioned this anymore. People who were not yet adult during the federation simply don't care; it's ancient history for them, like complaining that your garden does not have nice flowers because dinosaurs once stomped on it. Yeah, but what did you do about it since then; you had enough time to do something, right? I feel like an old person just for mentioning the old issues. Similarly, ten or twenty years later, Farage will be just some uncool old grandpa no one cares about. It may be hard to imagine, but it will happen.