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>> Surely, replacing a human child with a cat is eco-friendly. Well the cat produces only waste while a human creates technology/innovation. Imagine raising a

>> Surely, replacing a human child with a cat is eco-friendly. Well the cat produces only waste while a human creates technology/innovation. Imagine raising a bunch of cats instead of people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezzos Elon Musk or Warren Buffet. A cat won't develop electric cars for sure.

psychiatrist24 6y ago
What if I care more about my cat than about your latest gadget?
- 7_my_mind 6y ago
  What you care for is immaterial. The goal of mitigating climate change is not to create a better world for you, but to provide a future for humanity. Thus, informed by such a goal it makes little sense to replace future generations with pets.
  - psychiatrist24 6y ago
    Well if you don't care what I care for, why should I care what you care for? I'm not killing my cat so that you can get a new iPhone next year (presumably with an AI chip that can generate virtual cats).
    - viro 6y ago
      Yea this person doesn't seem to realize people often see their pets as literal members of their family. in the same vein as kids.
qbasic_forever 6y ago
But a cute cat might make you the perfect viral Tik Tok video that earns you the money you need to get that electric car business idea off the ground...
- thefounder 6y ago
  Well if you replace Steve Jobs with a cat you may have no TikTok. Not to mention that a cat didn't develop linux either.
anamexis 6y ago
So we need someone to develop FGI (feline general intelligence), and then we should be all set.
heavyset_go 6y ago
The world would be a better place if the Microsoft of the 90's and millennium era was replaced with cats.
- scrollaway 6y ago
  You have no idea whether that statement is true.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Cats wouldn't have made IE the bane of my existence for a dozen somewhat years, or driven Netscape or Be Inc out of existence.
    - scrollaway 6y ago
      And how does that relate to the world today? Are you able to predict what the impact would be if, for example, Windows had not happened? Would the world be a Linux heaven? Would computers still be an expensive hobby? Would smartphones exist? Would you have a job? You do not have the answers to any of those questions, please don't pretend.
      - heavyset_go 6y ago
        You're taking a joke far more seriously than it should be taken.
patcon 6y ago
i feel it's too wide to get into sharing here, but i have to say I disagree SO strongly with all the subtext of this comment. Just saying it out loud to validate any other readers who are thinking it
- haswell 6y ago
  I also generally disagree with the subtext of the original comment. I tried to articulate why. You should too!
adamcook 6y ago
A cat also won't kill anyone, bully anyone, or more generally cause any considerable human suffering. Can you say the same for your real or hypothetical children?
- qbasic_forever 6y ago
  I invite you to spend time with my little 10lb. tortoiseshell-colored ball of fur and fury to see if it changes your mind about cats and human suffering. :)
- thefounder 6y ago
  You can raise an agressive pet(cat/dog) if you really want that.
  - psychiatrist24 6y ago
    What is the maximum number of humans a cat has ever killed?
z3ncyberpunk 6y ago
Very big assumption, largely ignoring the far larger risks of a human
eertami 6y ago
>Imagine raising a bunch of cats instead of people like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezzos Elon Musk or Warren Buffet. Unironically this would probably be a better world to live in. I can certainly think a few more names worth adding as well.
- bpodgursky 6y ago
  If you honestly think this, you've spent too much time on very dismal parts of the internet.
  - eertami 6y ago
    Is it dismal to think that perhaps billionaires are not a net positive for society?
    - bpodgursky 6y ago
      Yes, actually. You could argue (you'd be wrong) that it's bad for them to hold onto most of the billions they earned, but arguing that Gates, Elon and Bezos have produced "net negative" for the world is incredibly dumb and cynical. They've obviously produced an incredible amount of value for billions of people.
      - lm28469 6y ago
        It's not so much about "value" (or most likely "money") they brought to individuals but more about which way they steer society as a whole. When you look at it this way it's not as clear cut as you appear to believe
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - lm28469 6y ago
    On the other hand people praising Musk &co as if they were done sort of prophets spent way too much time on another very biased part of the internet...
haswell 6y ago
While I understand the point you're trying to make, I'd argue that this take is too simplistic. > Well the cat produces only waste while a human creates technology/innovation. This statement is problematic for numerous reasons. I'll focus on two. Have you had a pet? I'm a dog person. They create waste (in small amounts, they're not very large), but they also bring joy, companionship, love, a reason to walk outside at least 3 times/day. They make me a better person. Some humans create technology/innovation. Some humans create value that has nothing to do with tech or saving the planet. Some humans don't create much value at all. > A cat won't develop electric cars for sure. And being realistic, neither will most humans. While the potential certainly exists, comparing the relative merits of raising kids vs. raising pets by focusing on people like Gates, Bezos, Musk and Buffet is not quite right either. (I'd also question why these are the four people we're benchmarking against). For sake of argument, it's worth considering this: for people who choose pets (or nothing) over kids, how much does that decision enable them to more fully pursue their passions? Is it possible that not having kids makes it more likely that someone will create the next big thing in tech? Or be the source of innovation that helps improve the planet? I know my own struggles with depression have a direct impact on my ability to create value, and my dogs help me with my depression. Conclusion: my dogs create value. Going back to the original argument: "pets are more eco-friendly than children" - I think this still has merit. Can the opposite be true? Sure. Is it generally true? That's more complicated.
- thefounder 6y ago
  Even if you don't develop electric cars or anything really "important" at world scale, your kids might do it or their children could finally make it so you could say that children are a good long term investment. Of course there are some bad apples but that's mostly due environment factors. I still believe that when you have to choose between a cat and a human being you should bet on the human to solve the eco problems.
  - haswell 6y ago
    The other factor I didn't address in my other comment is: raising kids is absolutely NOT right for everyone! It's really that simple. Societal pressures tell us that success = having a family, but speaking from personal experience, this is absolutely not always true. > Of course they are some bad apples but that's mostly due environment factors Breaking out some personal information now: I was raised in an abusive home. I was deprived of a traditional upbringing/education, and have spent most of my adult life learning how to be an adult. I've also found success, but it's been complicated. One thing I know for sure: having kids will never be the right thing for me, and that's ok. Everyone has a different situation, but your commentary does not leave room for the wide spectrum of circumstances that people are dealing with. > but your kids might do it or their children so you could say children are a good long term investment Or they might not. To have kids solely for this reason is extremely questionable.
lm28469 6y ago
> A cat won't develop electric cars for sure. A cat wouldn't have developed ICE vehicles either Also, tech/innovation != progress
- thefounder 6y ago
  Failure is progress as well.
  - lm28469 6y ago
    This feels like one of these wantrepreneur mantra that doesn't hold in real life. Failing to curb climate change isn't progress, failing to curb covid progression isn't progress. You don't "move fast and break things" with things you only get a single shot at
alpaca128 6y ago
> Imagine raising a bunch of cats instead of people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezzos Elon Musk or Warren Buffet. Imagine raising a bunch of cats instead of people like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, ...you can't pick and choose what you win in the genetic lottery.
- thefounder 6y ago
  People like to think that Adolf Hitler, Mussolini and Joseph Stalin could only be dicators. It's not really like they had no support within their own country and aboard. Do you think it was just some bad guys in Europe that happened to live in the same era? If you vote and support oppresive policies you will make/get people like that in the leadership regardless of how many people you replace with cats.
  - alpaca128 6y ago
    And again, similar things could be said about your examples. I just wanted to point out how bad that kind of argument is. You can't possibly know the outcome of such "what if" scenarios. Cats could lead to a more fulfilling life in just the right people who make a difference for society down the line. This kind of speculation is pointless.
    - thefounder 6y ago
      My comment was about replacing raising children with cats for eco reasons. Of course you should not raise children if you don't like doing that. I didn't decide myself yet. But if your "religion" is "eco-friendly" then I believe god prefers you to have children instead of cats.

psychiatrist24 6y ago

What if I care more about my cat than about your latest gadget?

7_my_mind 6y ago
What you care for is immaterial. The goal of mitigating climate change is not to create a better world for you, but to provide a future for humanity. Thus, informed by such a goal it makes little sense to replace future generations with pets.
- psychiatrist24 6y ago
  Well if you don't care what I care for, why should I care what you care for? I'm not killing my cat so that you can get a new iPhone next year (presumably with an AI chip that can generate virtual cats).
  - viro 6y ago
    Yea this person doesn't seem to realize people often see their pets as literal members of their family. in the same vein as kids.

qbasic_forever 6y ago

But a cute cat might make you the perfect viral Tik Tok video that earns you the money you need to get that electric car business idea off the ground...

thefounder 6y ago
Well if you replace Steve Jobs with a cat you may have no TikTok. Not to mention that a cat didn't develop linux either.

anamexis 6y ago

So we need someone to develop FGI (feline general intelligence), and then we should be all set.

heavyset_go 6y ago

The world would be a better place if the Microsoft of the 90's and millennium era was replaced with cats.

scrollaway 6y ago
You have no idea whether that statement is true.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Cats wouldn't have made IE the bane of my existence for a dozen somewhat years, or driven Netscape or Be Inc out of existence.
  - scrollaway 6y ago
    And how does that relate to the world today? Are you able to predict what the impact would be if, for example, Windows had not happened? Would the world be a Linux heaven? Would computers still be an expensive hobby? Would smartphones exist? Would you have a job? You do not have the answers to any of those questions, please don't pretend.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      You're taking a joke far more seriously than it should be taken.

patcon 6y ago

i feel it's too wide to get into sharing here, but i have to say I disagree SO strongly with all the subtext of this comment. Just saying it out loud to validate any other readers who are thinking it

haswell 6y ago
I also generally disagree with the subtext of the original comment. I tried to articulate why. You should too!

adamcook 6y ago

A cat also won't kill anyone, bully anyone, or more generally cause any considerable human suffering. Can you say the same for your real or hypothetical children?

qbasic_forever 6y ago
I invite you to spend time with my little 10lb. tortoiseshell-colored ball of fur and fury to see if it changes your mind about cats and human suffering. :)
thefounder 6y ago
You can raise an agressive pet(cat/dog) if you really want that.
- psychiatrist24 6y ago
  What is the maximum number of humans a cat has ever killed?

z3ncyberpunk 6y ago

Very big assumption, largely ignoring the far larger risks of a human

eertami 6y ago

>Imagine raising a bunch of cats instead of people like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezzos Elon Musk or Warren Buffet. Unironically this would probably be a better world to live in. I can certainly think a few more names worth adding as well.

bpodgursky 6y ago
If you honestly think this, you've spent too much time on very dismal parts of the internet.
- eertami 6y ago
  Is it dismal to think that perhaps billionaires are not a net positive for society?
  - bpodgursky 6y ago
    Yes, actually. You could argue (you'd be wrong) that it's bad for them to hold onto most of the billions they earned, but arguing that Gates, Elon and Bezos have produced "net negative" for the world is incredibly dumb and cynical. They've obviously produced an incredible amount of value for billions of people.
    - lm28469 6y ago
      It's not so much about "value" (or most likely "money") they brought to individuals but more about which way they steer society as a whole. When you look at it this way it's not as clear cut as you appear to believe
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- lm28469 6y ago
  On the other hand people praising Musk &co as if they were done sort of prophets spent way too much time on another very biased part of the internet...

haswell 6y ago

While I understand the point you're trying to make, I'd argue that this take is too simplistic. > Well the cat produces only waste while a human creates technology/innovation. This statement is problematic for numerous reasons. I'll focus on two. Have you had a pet? I'm a dog person. They create waste (in small amounts, they're not very large), but they also bring joy, companionship, love, a reason to walk outside at least 3 times/day. They make me a better person. Some humans create technology/innovation. Some humans create value that has nothing to do with tech or saving the planet. Some humans don't create much value at all. > A cat won't develop electric cars for sure. And being realistic, neither will most humans. While the potential certainly exists, comparing the relative merits of raising kids vs. raising pets by focusing on people like Gates, Bezos, Musk and Buffet is not quite right either. (I'd also question why these are the four people we're benchmarking against). For sake of argument, it's worth considering this: for people who choose pets (or nothing) over kids, how much does that decision enable them to more fully pursue their passions? Is it possible that not having kids makes it more likely that someone will create the next big thing in tech? Or be the source of innovation that helps improve the planet? I know my own struggles with depression have a direct impact on my ability to create value, and my dogs help me with my depression. Conclusion: my dogs create value. Going back to the original argument: "pets are more eco-friendly than children" - I think this still has merit. Can the opposite be true? Sure. Is it generally true? That's more complicated.

thefounder 6y ago
Even if you don't develop electric cars or anything really "important" at world scale, your kids might do it or their children could finally make it so you could say that children are a good long term investment. Of course there are some bad apples but that's mostly due environment factors. I still believe that when you have to choose between a cat and a human being you should bet on the human to solve the eco problems.
- haswell 6y ago
  The other factor I didn't address in my other comment is: raising kids is absolutely NOT right for everyone! It's really that simple. Societal pressures tell us that success = having a family, but speaking from personal experience, this is absolutely not always true. > Of course they are some bad apples but that's mostly due environment factors Breaking out some personal information now: I was raised in an abusive home. I was deprived of a traditional upbringing/education, and have spent most of my adult life learning how to be an adult. I've also found success, but it's been complicated. One thing I know for sure: having kids will never be the right thing for me, and that's ok. Everyone has a different situation, but your commentary does not leave room for the wide spectrum of circumstances that people are dealing with. > but your kids might do it or their children so you could say children are a good long term investment Or they might not. To have kids solely for this reason is extremely questionable.

lm28469 6y ago

> A cat won't develop electric cars for sure. A cat wouldn't have developed ICE vehicles either Also, tech/innovation != progress

thefounder 6y ago
Failure is progress as well.
- lm28469 6y ago
  This feels like one of these wantrepreneur mantra that doesn't hold in real life. Failing to curb climate change isn't progress, failing to curb covid progression isn't progress. You don't "move fast and break things" with things you only get a single shot at

alpaca128 6y ago

> Imagine raising a bunch of cats instead of people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezzos Elon Musk or Warren Buffet. Imagine raising a bunch of cats instead of people like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, ...you can't pick and choose what you win in the genetic lottery.

thefounder 6y ago
People like to think that Adolf Hitler, Mussolini and Joseph Stalin could only be dicators. It's not really like they had no support within their own country and aboard. Do you think it was just some bad guys in Europe that happened to live in the same era? If you vote and support oppresive policies you will make/get people like that in the leadership regardless of how many people you replace with cats.
- alpaca128 6y ago
  And again, similar things could be said about your examples. I just wanted to point out how bad that kind of argument is. You can't possibly know the outcome of such "what if" scenarios. Cats could lead to a more fulfilling life in just the right people who make a difference for society down the line. This kind of speculation is pointless.
  - thefounder 6y ago
    My comment was about replacing raising children with cats for eco reasons. Of course you should not raise children if you don't like doing that. I didn't decide myself yet. But if your "religion" is "eco-friendly" then I believe god prefers you to have children instead of cats.