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There are a couple mentions but no top comments: Amazon has installed a mailbox at their facility, this mail piece specifically says to use it. AND this mail p

There are a couple mentions but no top comments: Amazon has installed a mailbox at their facility, this mail piece specifically says to use it. AND this mail piece says 'BE DONE by 3/1' when workers have until the end of the month to vote (context: amazon must stop anti-union mandatory meetings etc during voting). This could be a legal violation & is a big deal. I think at a minimum breaks the spirit of the NLRB mail-in voting ruling. HN seems to consider big tech = oppressive surveillance. I'll let you draw your own conclusions. This is also the latest in a long list of extreme tactics some aren't mentioned in this article. To name a few: Amazon also fired an activist who was speaking out. It's been reported Amzn has been penalizing pro-union employees with baseless and unfair management penalties/'strikes' and purposeful last minute over-time demands as punishment. Digital surveillance. Management basically stalking associates in break rooms, asking if they are only there to organize and attorneys and consultants drawing graph person relationship research charts to map their employees. A big propaganda push online & a pretty successful press drive - most of these articles Amazon gets many inches of positive talking points. https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/18277322/amazon-fired-warehouse-worker-staten-island-union https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/18277322/amazon-fired-warehous... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/22/how-amazon-is-fighting-back-against-workers-efforts-to-unionize.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/22/how-amazon-is-fighting-back-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/02/amazon-union-warehouse-workers/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/02/amazon-...

A12-B 6y ago
The core of the issue is that people don't believe a company that big would break the law so easily. In reality it's the opposite: When you're that big breaking the law becomes really easy because you have the strongest legal defence. Amazon won't see a single minute of court time for this.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  To add to that, fines can and do bankrupt small businesses. I cannot remember the last time a big company went bankrupt by fines. Breaking the law poses existential threat to small businesses, not large enterprises.
  - notriddle 6y ago
    Fines should be proportional to income. They're supposed to be a deterrent, not a revenue source.
    - rodgerd 6y ago
      This is why surveillance capitalists tried to rally the Valley against the GDPR: fines based on global income could be effective, which is unacceptable to companies used to treating breaking the law as a minor cost of doing business.
      - zapita 6y ago
        This is such an important point. And sadly it appears that they have been successful. The sentiment on GDPR in SV seems to be overwhelmingly negative, for all the wrong reasons I believe.
        noodlesUK 6y ago
        What’s funny is that the GDPR is pretty universally well-liked, or at least accepted as a necessary evil in my European tech bubble...
        rendall 6y ago
        Speaking as an American living in Europe, I love GDPR.
        chokeartist 6y ago
        Speaking as an American living in America, I love GDPR. Where I work [big-co], it is mandated that all of our services are GDPR-compliant, regardless of worldwide location. The only people who hate GDPR are ad-industry parasites. To that I say: good riddance, and don't let starvation hurt too much on the way down.
- runarberg 6y ago
  As well as penalties diminishes as size grows. A small company might go bankrupt by a medium to large lawsuit or a large fine, while a large company can easily weather it off. If a small to medium company invests heavily in something illegal and they are forced to stop with all the lost revenue that follows it would be devastating. For a large company, not so much. They can afford to fight a legal battle that delays when they should stop, in the meantime their illegal activity might have already yielded success.
- zelon88 6y ago
  And when Amazon dodges everything that gets thrown at them the burnt-out regulators will probably find some mom-and-pop store to take out their frustration on instead.
staticautomatic 6y ago
They hired actual fucking Pinkertons, which says enough about how aggressive they are. The gloves have been off for a while now.
- secfirstmd 6y ago
  Pinkerton are the corporate security company of choice for a lot of organisations...including Facebook
  - harry8 6y ago
    Things that don't make me feel better about something: "No it's actually ok, facebook also does it."
    - secfirstmd 6y ago
      I most definitely wasn't endorsing them. I know their historical reputation. I was just suggesting it's interesting that FB use them also.
  - lovegoblin 6y ago
    And one with a long, long history of violent union busting.
  - doggodaddo78 6y ago
    You could use to read some history books.
    - tharkun__ 6y ago
      I wonder why multiple people read his comment as pro Pinkertons (pro AMZN etc.) I read it as "Yep and Amazon are not the only large company that use them, so watch out! If Facebook employees ever want to unionize, Pinkertons might/will be sent after them too".
      - 6y ago
htnsao 6y ago
Having actually worked a union job once, I'll say this: Unions suck. Bezos should fire them all and hire people that want to work harder to make more money. And try to replace each whiner with a robot.
- okamiueru 6y ago
  Care to explain or elaborate? I'm in utter confusion at every hacker news discussion that touches on unions. I live in a country that is heavily unionised. Its almost unheard of to not be in one. And, y the benefits are so prevalent, that I'm just confused reading the things I read on hacker news. It's just, weird. I have my suspicious, but I'd have to keep those to myself due to the guidelines here.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    Key word in your comment: “different country.” Unions in the US tend to have an image of bureaucracy and not actually helping. For example, I worked at a union grocery store job a few years back and the union did jack squat for quite a lot of us. No benefits, minimum wage (well, 10¢ or so over), etc. My experience is obviously not representative of unions as a whole, but experiences such as these do taint one’s view of them in a bad way. Especially if they’re your first experience.
    - okamiueru 6y ago
      Surely that is the fault of that union, and not the concept of it in of itself? There seems to be such a heavy effort put to make unions look bad, that I don't doubt for a second that it isn't effective. But the basic idea of it is that the employees have a lot more negotiation power collectively than alone. The whole goal is to have a fair compensation for work. Why would anyone work for a wage that isn't livable? It's more a hypothetical mind you, but with a collective bargaining power, no one would. I don't think there is a minimum wage in my country, but I'm pretty sure store clerks make enough to live a decent life.
      - 6y ago

A12-B 6y ago

The core of the issue is that people don't believe a company that big would break the law so easily. In reality it's the opposite: When you're that big breaking the law becomes really easy because you have the strongest legal defence. Amazon won't see a single minute of court time for this.

smnrchrds 6y ago
To add to that, fines can and do bankrupt small businesses. I cannot remember the last time a big company went bankrupt by fines. Breaking the law poses existential threat to small businesses, not large enterprises.
- notriddle 6y ago
  Fines should be proportional to income. They're supposed to be a deterrent, not a revenue source.
  - rodgerd 6y ago
    This is why surveillance capitalists tried to rally the Valley against the GDPR: fines based on global income could be effective, which is unacceptable to companies used to treating breaking the law as a minor cost of doing business.
    - zapita 6y ago
      This is such an important point. And sadly it appears that they have been successful. The sentiment on GDPR in SV seems to be overwhelmingly negative, for all the wrong reasons I believe.
      - noodlesUK 6y ago
        What’s funny is that the GDPR is pretty universally well-liked, or at least accepted as a necessary evil in my European tech bubble...
        rendall 6y ago
        Speaking as an American living in Europe, I love GDPR.
        chokeartist 6y ago
        Speaking as an American living in America, I love GDPR. Where I work [big-co], it is mandated that all of our services are GDPR-compliant, regardless of worldwide location. The only people who hate GDPR are ad-industry parasites. To that I say: good riddance, and don't let starvation hurt too much on the way down.
runarberg 6y ago
As well as penalties diminishes as size grows. A small company might go bankrupt by a medium to large lawsuit or a large fine, while a large company can easily weather it off. If a small to medium company invests heavily in something illegal and they are forced to stop with all the lost revenue that follows it would be devastating. For a large company, not so much. They can afford to fight a legal battle that delays when they should stop, in the meantime their illegal activity might have already yielded success.
zelon88 6y ago
And when Amazon dodges everything that gets thrown at them the burnt-out regulators will probably find some mom-and-pop store to take out their frustration on instead.

staticautomatic 6y ago

They hired actual fucking Pinkertons, which says enough about how aggressive they are. The gloves have been off for a while now.

secfirstmd 6y ago
Pinkerton are the corporate security company of choice for a lot of organisations...including Facebook
- harry8 6y ago
  Things that don't make me feel better about something: "No it's actually ok, facebook also does it."
  - secfirstmd 6y ago
    I most definitely wasn't endorsing them. I know their historical reputation. I was just suggesting it's interesting that FB use them also.
- lovegoblin 6y ago
  And one with a long, long history of violent union busting.
- doggodaddo78 6y ago
  You could use to read some history books.
  - tharkun__ 6y ago
    I wonder why multiple people read his comment as pro Pinkertons (pro AMZN etc.) I read it as "Yep and Amazon are not the only large company that use them, so watch out! If Facebook employees ever want to unionize, Pinkertons might/will be sent after them too".
    - 6y ago

htnsao 6y ago

Having actually worked a union job once, I'll say this: Unions suck. Bezos should fire them all and hire people that want to work harder to make more money. And try to replace each whiner with a robot.

okamiueru 6y ago
Care to explain or elaborate? I'm in utter confusion at every hacker news discussion that touches on unions. I live in a country that is heavily unionised. Its almost unheard of to not be in one. And, y the benefits are so prevalent, that I'm just confused reading the things I read on hacker news. It's just, weird. I have my suspicious, but I'd have to keep those to myself due to the guidelines here.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Key word in your comment: “different country.” Unions in the US tend to have an image of bureaucracy and not actually helping. For example, I worked at a union grocery store job a few years back and the union did jack squat for quite a lot of us. No benefits, minimum wage (well, 10¢ or so over), etc. My experience is obviously not representative of unions as a whole, but experiences such as these do taint one’s view of them in a bad way. Especially if they’re your first experience.
  - okamiueru 6y ago
    Surely that is the fault of that union, and not the concept of it in of itself? There seems to be such a heavy effort put to make unions look bad, that I don't doubt for a second that it isn't effective. But the basic idea of it is that the employees have a lot more negotiation power collectively than alone. The whole goal is to have a fair compensation for work. Why would anyone work for a wage that isn't livable? It's more a hypothetical mind you, but with a collective bargaining power, no one would. I don't think there is a minimum wage in my country, but I'm pretty sure store clerks make enough to live a decent life.
    - 6y ago