11 ms·

Samsung now updates Android for longer than Google does

197 points by samizdis 6y ago

foobaw 6y ago
As someone that worked at an OEM, updating used to be a huge hassle and required a lot of R&D work. Project Treble definitely simplified this effort and I'm glad this is enabling and making life better for users.
- rektide 6y ago
  Until the world sees an Android device get a kernel upgrade, imo, Android is a cruel cruel cruel joke, ecocide-al insanity. The world can not afford to let high tech devices rot away like they do. I too am excited to see something done. Abstracting over the entire kernel is a helluva Extend-Embrace-Extinguish policy, but at least some updates will come. I remain doubtful that we'll see kernel upgrades though. Even though the whole device driver architecture is now abstracted from the kernel, now offered by Treble, I still expect there'll be a lot of compliance cold-feet & general-low-ambitions to support less-than-current devices. The whole idea of kicking out a pervasively connected communications device that has a hard wall for how supported it will be, that no one else can help maintain, is just corrupt & vile. It's sad to see such mal-use of Linux. Post script: I don't blame Google per-se for this all. Trying to applicationize a computing device, turn it from a general purpose system where thing can go wrong into a product that works reliably & can be let onto cellular networks is a difficult challenge, and against the grain of the highly hierarchical systems of power that have flowed in the world. None the less, it is sad to see an un-upgradeable Linux where owners can't get root, their apps will lock them out if they do (Android SafetyNet), where bootloaders are usually locked, and where driver support is only for OEMs. It rather makes me think of the other dominating factor in computing, the de-generalization/specialization of computing as it effervesces into the cloud, an unfortunate juggernaut of a trend I wrote about earlier today[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238376
  - 177tcca 6y ago
    How do we compromise the e-waste with the fact that a Pixel and Pixel 2 already have, comparatively speaking, insecure hardware to the latest secure phones?
    - rektide 6y ago
      There is improved physical security, but I'm not aware of any hardware errata out there that would make the a Pixel or other internet-communicator insecure to use as an internet device. If you can upgrade the kernel, you can get modern defenses against timing attacks (which mainly but not exclusively have appeared in x86 archs), &c.
      - 177tcca 6y ago
        There's no upstream firmware being patched by Google. The phone is effectively unpatched once the hardware manufacturer gives up on maintaining its security. This is a fundamental misunderstanding for, I'd guess, well over half of the custom ROM/custom phone OS community. ie: Lineage is customizable, and helps certain activity be more private - but it shatters security.
        rektide 6y ago
        Again I'd love to see some details, some CVE's, for what issues the hardware has. The computer itself is general purpose enough that I'm not afraid. The cellular stack is a shitshow though! Totally unsupportable garbage, as you say, beholden entirely to a bunch of dodgy punks with no incentive to keep the world running. Which is very much why it's exciting to see Pine64 working on getting Linux running on the PinePhone modem[1]. Because this shit is bogus, 100% bogus full of shit crap. The firmware is all for the most part software, rebadged as firmware because none of us get the privilege of working with it or seeing it. I still would like some evidence that any firmware on the Pixel or Pixel 2 is actually problematic. That the computer itself is at risk. Perhaps there are some DMA engines onboard that can not be locked down, that peripherals unfortunately just had too much unmediated access. I'd like to see some shred of evidence that insecure peripherals are a real threat to the general main computer though, before I agree that we can just start throwing these devices out. [1] https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1346582145557524488 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1346582145557524488
- abrouwers 6y ago
  I'd love to believe that, but I'm a OnePlus owner who bought in with the "promise" of major OS updates for 2 years, and security for 3. My device (a 6T) crossed the 2 year mark in November, with no sign of Android 11 in sight. Between the M1 mac & android getting progressively worse, I've never been closer to abandoning Linux & Android. EDIT: Android 11
  - thargor 6y ago
    Android 10 has been available for op6/op6t since 2019. I'm actually posting from an op6 with android 10. Maybe you are talking about android 11?
    - abrouwers 6y ago
      Whoops, terrible typo! Yes, Android 11.
  - hojjat12000 6y ago
    I also have a Oneplus 6T and it has been running android 10 for a year now. It also receives security updates frequently. If you are talking about android 11, it is also in the works. Maybe in a few months the first beta will come out. They have confirmed that 6T will receive the update though.
    - abrouwers 6y ago
      Sorry, typo - it should have said Android 11. I agree that it MIGHT happen at some point, but it's an example (IMO) of how bad the Android ecosystem is, compared to apple. This phone really makes me believe OnePlus is definitely more interested in the next, new hardware, rather than supporting their existing.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - koyote 6y ago
    I'm in the same boat (same phone) but I don't really care anymore? Back in the days of Android 1.5 to ~5 a new update meant a ton of new features and fixes. Now all we get are slight cosmetic tweaks that are not even always for the better. My partner has a pixel which is on 11 and I don't see the difference when using her phone.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Stock Android and constant updates are the main reasons I dumped Samsung for a Nexus back the day. I stuck with Pixels and Nexuses ever since. Android One is changing that. Now, some mid-range Nokia phones are at the very top of the list. Why? I just looked up what kind of Nikon cameras I could get, used, for the difference between a Nokia 5.4 and a Pixel 4. That settled it, with the camera being the main difference for me.
  - mattlondon 6y ago
    I had the same journey. Nexus/Pixels then the pixel 4 was too expensive for me so I got myself and the wife Nokia 7s. Suffice to say that both Nokia devices failed due hardware failures of the charge port. This happened 3 times to 2 devices. One device also just bricked itself out of the blue one day and needed to be returned. All this in about 18 months. Not great. We have now gone back to Pixel 3a (wife) and 5 (me). Probably won't go back to Nokia anytime soon - the hardware quality is just not there.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      The only reason I have to replace my Pixel 2 is the charge port. Sometimes it charges, sometimes not. Tried every cable I have, every charger. Limiting myself to Android One, and around 200 - 250 bucks, what phones are out there? Are the Motorola ones any good?
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        pixel 4a is pretty good for $350. I just upgraded to one from my pixel 2 and I have no complaints so far (I had the same issue with the pixel 2 charging port lol). if you bought your pixel 2 from google, there's a good chance you have a $100 google store credit sitting in your account. if so, that would bring the pixel 4a down to your price range. wanted to let you know just in case. I'm currently kicking myself because I forgot I had that credit and paid full price for the phone.
        hef19898 6y ago
simonh 6y ago
"iOS still offers the best update plan in the industry, with iOS 14 support going all the way back to the iPhone 6S, a phone released in 2015." That implies 5 years of support. Samsung is only offering bug fixes and security updates for up to 4 years from release though, not major releases. The iPhone 5s just got a point release this January, and that phone came out in 2013 so that's over 7 years and counting. The iPhone 5 also got 7 years of fixes (well, 6 years and 10 months).
- AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
  Depending on your point of view, security updates for old devices are almost preferable to full-feature updates. My reasoning is as follows: Each new version of iOS/Android is more resource-hungry than the last, and expects better hardware to run it. Many people with Apple device complain, "This new version makes my old iPhone/iPad so slow it's practically useless." So in most cases, people want to keep using their old devices (presumably at the performance speed they were running previously), but they are compelled to stop using them when they stop receiving updates, because the unpatched bugs/exploits could put their data at risk. While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit.
  - 177tcca 6y ago
    This is why a Pixel 3a or later with GrapheneOS.org is tough to beat. Best of all worlds.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    Frankly, this goes for most software, for me. When I update, I want security fixes, bugs fixed, and performance improvements. I generally don't want more feature cram, pointless UX re-designs, and deprecated functionality. Unfortunately, the way 99% of software companies do updates, you have to take the bad if you want the good. They don't do separate tracks, where people who just want under-the-hood fixes can get them.
  - 6y ago
mcraiha 6y ago
Topic should be more like "Samsung will deliver security updates for at least four years to certain devices while Google guarantees only three years for Pixel devices"
908B64B197 6y ago
The source of the problem is that OEMs won't go through the effort to get their kernel patches in the main tree. Why won't they?
- eznzt 6y ago
  Because it takes a lot of effort, kernel developers will bitch that some of the code is there just to connect to blobs that aren't free, blah blah blah. cf the nvidia situation.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    > kernel developers will bitch that some of the code is there just to connect to blobs that aren't free That seems like a completely legitimate complaint? The whole point of upstreaming code is making it so that the device stays stable, current, and secure. If you just shove all the important bits into a userspace black box that can't be audited or updated, how much did you really gain?
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      The OEMs gained all the money that they did not spend into R&D an OS. Free beer rulez! Even better, all the free beer OSes competing for a spot on IoT are BSD/MIT/Apache, expect zero contributions to upstream and OEMs to move away from Linux for such scenarios.
- BugsJustFindMe 6y ago
  They lack financial incentive to do so.
- Kneecaps07 6y ago
  Because they already have your money and don't consider the long-term effect of losing a future customer due to the lack of updates.
SamBam 6y ago
Separate issue, but I find Google's end of life policy for Chromebooks baffling. Chrome OS will not update or get any new security patches on any device (made by any vendor) after the device's Auto Update Expiration date. It doesn't matter if the hardware is more-than-capable of running the updated ChromeOS. Since this is, of course, tied to the Chrome browser on the computer, this means that there is no way for a six-year-old Chromebook to safely browse the web. How is this justifiable, in terms of security?
- ProAm 6y ago
  This is where you replace ChromeOS for linux and live a happy life.
- dunnevens 6y ago
  This doesn't help your 6 year old Chromebook, but going forward Google is going to update Chrome independently of Chrome OS. I understand your frustration though. I love ten inch laptops. That's about the perfect size for my use. I've got a 5.5 year old 10 inch Asus Flip Chromebook that still runs perfectly, but hasn't received updates since last Spring / Summer. There's really nothing else on the market, short of a iPad Pro 11 in a laptop-hinged case, that could replace it.
  - josefresco 6y ago
    >I love ten inch laptops You might like the Lenovo Duet: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/student-chromebooks/Lenovo-CT-X636/p/ZZICZCTCT1X https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/student-chromebo...
    - SamBam 6y ago
      End of life 2028. Comes sooner than you think.
    - dunnevens 6y ago
      I thought of the Duet after writing my comment. I actually bought one when it was super cheap at Best Buy. I like it. The size is perfect. But I wish there was an optional hinged keyboard for it to turn it into a semi-proper laptop. Hoping it's selling well enough for Lenovo, or some third party, to make that accessory.
mrbonner 6y ago
I got burned by Samsung devices one too many times: phones G2 to G5, security cameras, TV. Their software are all buggy and grinds the devices to a stop. My life became better once I got rid of all Samsung crap.
- LASR 6y ago
  Had a similar experience, but by proxy. I was answering a lot of LOT of tech support calls when my dad decided to buy the latest and greatest Samsungs. Next cycle, I got him an iPhone X as a gift. Apart from "how do I do this on iOS", have had very little trouble with it. Still going strong even after several years now. Somehow, he's even picked up some decent iMovie editing skills - learning all by himself. Durability-wise, the Pro-level iPhones are the new Nokia 3310s.
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    As a reverse example, my wife _just_ switched from iPhone to Android (Samsung S21) because she was sick and tired of her iPhone not doing what she wanted it to. The cries of "arg, why is it doing that?!?" were pretty common. Things like adding a song to it using iTunes, only to get in the car and it turns out it's not on the phone (the phone wants to grab it from the cloud... and we don't have unlimited data).
- cute_boi 6y ago
  this is my experience too. Samsung is all about marketing. I bought s6 which didn't even last 5 hour of battery life on usage. And after 2 year it died so easily. Then there was Samsung Washing Machine which started giving lot of issue after 2 years. My life has become lot better and peaceful after getting rid of samsung crap. Samsung doesn't deserve our money.
- jonshariat 6y ago
  My experience has been with their TVs, really poor experience so far. Software fails all the time (this is less than 1 year old), screen is black, needs to be rebooted to work again. Remote started firing multiple times at random too.
jonquark 6y ago
I'd really like some sort of "Best Before" label on electronics with a date that said how long the manufacturer was commiting to security updates. But there are issues - what exactly constitutes a security update, how frequently and timely are the patches -what if the manufacture goes bankrupt....
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
Interesting to see Galaxy M series on the list, they're made in India/Made for India smartphones, Decent hardware but subsidized with bloat. The Samsung One UI in the M series seems completely different to One UI from other Samsung devices, especially from other countries. It has all the international data hoarder apps and their local equivalents preloaded in the firmware. Apps install notifications from Samsung store masquerade as security updates notification. Even after disabling the bloat I could, the phone shows about 3000 requests from the blocked list/day on Pi hole. This kind of discriminatory behavior is unacceptable but goes unnoticed as Samsung is pulling this off only in India AFAIK.
- solarkraft 6y ago
  > data hoarder apps Do you mean spyware? Data hoarding is a term usually applied to archiving public media, not personal data.
  - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
    True, But I've seen data hoarding used negatively to imply anti-privacy behavior[1]. [1] 'Facebook has suspended ‘tens of thousands’ of apps suspected of hoarding data'- https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/20/facebook-suspends-apps-hoarding-data/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/20/facebook-suspends-apps-hoa...
- vitorgrs 6y ago
  Galaxy M are made in Brazil, in Brazil (just like any other Samsung HW here)
- Tijdreiziger 6y ago
  I'm not familiar with the M series, but isn't it possible to disable the apps from the settings? E.g. on my (European) Galaxy S9, Facebook services are preinstalled, but I can go to Settings > Apps, choose 'Show system apps' [in the 'three dots' menu], then choose (e.g.) Facebook Services > Disable.
plusfour 6y ago
updates it with garbage
deostroll 6y ago
Why hasn't anyone noticed that along with security updates apps also get installed? For e.g, in India Moj or PhonePe gets installed...
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  Because it is not true, I haven't noticed this on my S10. Edit: A bit of searching has revealed that it may be true for mid/low tier devices.
  - dartharva 6y ago
    That's a flagship device. Obviously they won't be doing that to flagship devices.
    - cute_boi 6y ago
      In India they do such thing even on flagship device.
      - perryizgr8 6y ago
        No, as I said, I have an S10. There are no extra apps after update.
  - deostroll 6y ago
    Mine was a galaxy a50. (Non-flagship).
effingwewt 6y ago
Doesn't matter in the least Samsung phones are now some of the most malware infected phones out there. Check google play store reviews of Carrier Hub[1], and Mobile Installer from SoftBank[2]. Both were installed by Samsung in a recent mandatory, forced within 72 hours update Neither can be uninstalled without root, and will show uninstalled and instantly re-install itself,since both have root access...which they say they keep from us for 'security'. Fuck Samsung I will never touch their garbage again. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ms.smf.services https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ms.... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ce.updater https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ce.... Edit for clarity
heavyset_go 6y ago
Honestly, I wish they'd just jump over to Tizen with an Anbox layer for Android apps.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  It would be nice, at least we would have again a mobile OS with first party support for .NET, but I doubt they will bother. Then there is the whole issue with the code quality from Enlightenment.
butz 6y ago
More Android phone manufacturers should join this "who can support their phones for a longest time" race. Everyone will be a winner.
dartharva 6y ago
Samsung is notoriously aggressive against customization though, it puts a lot of hurdles for people trying to root their phones and will disable many functionalities once it detects a breached Knox counter.
sempron64 6y ago
Windows 10 was released in 2015 and will receive security updates for the foreseeable future. This should be the standard for reliable operation.
- vitorgrs 6y ago
  Windows RT devices launched in 2012, will get updates until 2023.

197 points by samizdis 6y ago

As someone that worked at an OEM, updating used to be a huge hassle and required a lot of R&D work. Project Treble definitely simplified this effort and I'm glad this is enabling and making life better for users.

rektide 6y ago
Until the world sees an Android device get a kernel upgrade, imo, Android is a cruel cruel cruel joke, ecocide-al insanity. The world can not afford to let high tech devices rot away like they do. I too am excited to see something done. Abstracting over the entire kernel is a helluva Extend-Embrace-Extinguish policy, but at least some updates will come. I remain doubtful that we'll see kernel upgrades though. Even though the whole device driver architecture is now abstracted from the kernel, now offered by Treble, I still expect there'll be a lot of compliance cold-feet & general-low-ambitions to support less-than-current devices. The whole idea of kicking out a pervasively connected communications device that has a hard wall for how supported it will be, that no one else can help maintain, is just corrupt & vile. It's sad to see such mal-use of Linux. Post script: I don't blame Google per-se for this all. Trying to applicationize a computing device, turn it from a general purpose system where thing can go wrong into a product that works reliably & can be let onto cellular networks is a difficult challenge, and against the grain of the highly hierarchical systems of power that have flowed in the world. None the less, it is sad to see an un-upgradeable Linux where owners can't get root, their apps will lock them out if they do (Android SafetyNet), where bootloaders are usually locked, and where driver support is only for OEMs. It rather makes me think of the other dominating factor in computing, the de-generalization/specialization of computing as it effervesces into the cloud, an unfortunate juggernaut of a trend I wrote about earlier today[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238376
- 177tcca 6y ago
  How do we compromise the e-waste with the fact that a Pixel and Pixel 2 already have, comparatively speaking, insecure hardware to the latest secure phones?
  - rektide 6y ago
    There is improved physical security, but I'm not aware of any hardware errata out there that would make the a Pixel or other internet-communicator insecure to use as an internet device. If you can upgrade the kernel, you can get modern defenses against timing attacks (which mainly but not exclusively have appeared in x86 archs), &c.
    - 177tcca 6y ago
      There's no upstream firmware being patched by Google. The phone is effectively unpatched once the hardware manufacturer gives up on maintaining its security. This is a fundamental misunderstanding for, I'd guess, well over half of the custom ROM/custom phone OS community. ie: Lineage is customizable, and helps certain activity be more private - but it shatters security.
      - rektide 6y ago
        Again I'd love to see some details, some CVE's, for what issues the hardware has. The computer itself is general purpose enough that I'm not afraid. The cellular stack is a shitshow though! Totally unsupportable garbage, as you say, beholden entirely to a bunch of dodgy punks with no incentive to keep the world running. Which is very much why it's exciting to see Pine64 working on getting Linux running on the PinePhone modem[1]. Because this shit is bogus, 100% bogus full of shit crap. The firmware is all for the most part software, rebadged as firmware because none of us get the privilege of working with it or seeing it. I still would like some evidence that any firmware on the Pixel or Pixel 2 is actually problematic. That the computer itself is at risk. Perhaps there are some DMA engines onboard that can not be locked down, that peripherals unfortunately just had too much unmediated access. I'd like to see some shred of evidence that insecure peripherals are a real threat to the general main computer though, before I agree that we can just start throwing these devices out. [1] https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1346582145557524488 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1346582145557524488
abrouwers 6y ago
I'd love to believe that, but I'm a OnePlus owner who bought in with the "promise" of major OS updates for 2 years, and security for 3. My device (a 6T) crossed the 2 year mark in November, with no sign of Android 11 in sight. Between the M1 mac & android getting progressively worse, I've never been closer to abandoning Linux & Android. EDIT: Android 11
- thargor 6y ago
  Android 10 has been available for op6/op6t since 2019. I'm actually posting from an op6 with android 10. Maybe you are talking about android 11?
  - abrouwers 6y ago
    Whoops, terrible typo! Yes, Android 11.
- hojjat12000 6y ago
  I also have a Oneplus 6T and it has been running android 10 for a year now. It also receives security updates frequently. If you are talking about android 11, it is also in the works. Maybe in a few months the first beta will come out. They have confirmed that 6T will receive the update though.
  - abrouwers 6y ago
    Sorry, typo - it should have said Android 11. I agree that it MIGHT happen at some point, but it's an example (IMO) of how bad the Android ecosystem is, compared to apple. This phone really makes me believe OnePlus is definitely more interested in the next, new hardware, rather than supporting their existing.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- koyote 6y ago
  I'm in the same boat (same phone) but I don't really care anymore? Back in the days of Android 1.5 to ~5 a new update meant a ton of new features and fixes. Now all we get are slight cosmetic tweaks that are not even always for the better. My partner has a pixel which is on 11 and I don't see the difference when using her phone.
hef19898 6y ago
Stock Android and constant updates are the main reasons I dumped Samsung for a Nexus back the day. I stuck with Pixels and Nexuses ever since. Android One is changing that. Now, some mid-range Nokia phones are at the very top of the list. Why? I just looked up what kind of Nikon cameras I could get, used, for the difference between a Nokia 5.4 and a Pixel 4. That settled it, with the camera being the main difference for me.
- mattlondon 6y ago
  I had the same journey. Nexus/Pixels then the pixel 4 was too expensive for me so I got myself and the wife Nokia 7s. Suffice to say that both Nokia devices failed due hardware failures of the charge port. This happened 3 times to 2 devices. One device also just bricked itself out of the blue one day and needed to be returned. All this in about 18 months. Not great. We have now gone back to Pixel 3a (wife) and 5 (me). Probably won't go back to Nokia anytime soon - the hardware quality is just not there.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    The only reason I have to replace my Pixel 2 is the charge port. Sometimes it charges, sometimes not. Tried every cable I have, every charger. Limiting myself to Android One, and around 200 - 250 bucks, what phones are out there? Are the Motorola ones any good?
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      pixel 4a is pretty good for $350. I just upgraded to one from my pixel 2 and I have no complaints so far (I had the same issue with the pixel 2 charging port lol). if you bought your pixel 2 from google, there's a good chance you have a $100 google store credit sitting in your account. if so, that would bring the pixel 4a down to your price range. wanted to let you know just in case. I'm currently kicking myself because I forgot I had that credit and paid full price for the phone.
      - hef19898 6y ago

simonh 6y ago

"iOS still offers the best update plan in the industry, with iOS 14 support going all the way back to the iPhone 6S, a phone released in 2015." That implies 5 years of support. Samsung is only offering bug fixes and security updates for up to 4 years from release though, not major releases. The iPhone 5s just got a point release this January, and that phone came out in 2013 so that's over 7 years and counting. The iPhone 5 also got 7 years of fixes (well, 6 years and 10 months).

AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
Depending on your point of view, security updates for old devices are almost preferable to full-feature updates. My reasoning is as follows: Each new version of iOS/Android is more resource-hungry than the last, and expects better hardware to run it. Many people with Apple device complain, "This new version makes my old iPhone/iPad so slow it's practically useless." So in most cases, people want to keep using their old devices (presumably at the performance speed they were running previously), but they are compelled to stop using them when they stop receiving updates, because the unpatched bugs/exploits could put their data at risk. While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit.
- 177tcca 6y ago
  This is why a Pixel 3a or later with GrapheneOS.org is tough to beat. Best of all worlds.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Frankly, this goes for most software, for me. When I update, I want security fixes, bugs fixed, and performance improvements. I generally don't want more feature cram, pointless UX re-designs, and deprecated functionality. Unfortunately, the way 99% of software companies do updates, you have to take the bad if you want the good. They don't do separate tracks, where people who just want under-the-hood fixes can get them.
- 6y ago

mcraiha 6y ago

Topic should be more like "Samsung will deliver security updates for at least four years to certain devices while Google guarantees only three years for Pixel devices"

908B64B197 6y ago

The source of the problem is that OEMs won't go through the effort to get their kernel patches in the main tree. Why won't they?

eznzt 6y ago
Because it takes a lot of effort, kernel developers will bitch that some of the code is there just to connect to blobs that aren't free, blah blah blah. cf the nvidia situation.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > kernel developers will bitch that some of the code is there just to connect to blobs that aren't free That seems like a completely legitimate complaint? The whole point of upstreaming code is making it so that the device stays stable, current, and secure. If you just shove all the important bits into a userspace black box that can't be audited or updated, how much did you really gain?
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    The OEMs gained all the money that they did not spend into R&D an OS. Free beer rulez! Even better, all the free beer OSes competing for a spot on IoT are BSD/MIT/Apache, expect zero contributions to upstream and OEMs to move away from Linux for such scenarios.
BugsJustFindMe 6y ago
They lack financial incentive to do so.
Kneecaps07 6y ago
Because they already have your money and don't consider the long-term effect of losing a future customer due to the lack of updates.

SamBam 6y ago

Separate issue, but I find Google's end of life policy for Chromebooks baffling. Chrome OS will not update or get any new security patches on any device (made by any vendor) after the device's Auto Update Expiration date. It doesn't matter if the hardware is more-than-capable of running the updated ChromeOS. Since this is, of course, tied to the Chrome browser on the computer, this means that there is no way for a six-year-old Chromebook to safely browse the web. How is this justifiable, in terms of security?

ProAm 6y ago
This is where you replace ChromeOS for linux and live a happy life.
dunnevens 6y ago
This doesn't help your 6 year old Chromebook, but going forward Google is going to update Chrome independently of Chrome OS. I understand your frustration though. I love ten inch laptops. That's about the perfect size for my use. I've got a 5.5 year old 10 inch Asus Flip Chromebook that still runs perfectly, but hasn't received updates since last Spring / Summer. There's really nothing else on the market, short of a iPad Pro 11 in a laptop-hinged case, that could replace it.
- josefresco 6y ago
  >I love ten inch laptops You might like the Lenovo Duet: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/student-chromebooks/Lenovo-CT-X636/p/ZZICZCTCT1X https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/student-chromebo...
  - SamBam 6y ago
    End of life 2028. Comes sooner than you think.
  - dunnevens 6y ago
    I thought of the Duet after writing my comment. I actually bought one when it was super cheap at Best Buy. I like it. The size is perfect. But I wish there was an optional hinged keyboard for it to turn it into a semi-proper laptop. Hoping it's selling well enough for Lenovo, or some third party, to make that accessory.

mrbonner 6y ago

I got burned by Samsung devices one too many times: phones G2 to G5, security cameras, TV. Their software are all buggy and grinds the devices to a stop. My life became better once I got rid of all Samsung crap.

LASR 6y ago
Had a similar experience, but by proxy. I was answering a lot of LOT of tech support calls when my dad decided to buy the latest and greatest Samsungs. Next cycle, I got him an iPhone X as a gift. Apart from "how do I do this on iOS", have had very little trouble with it. Still going strong even after several years now. Somehow, he's even picked up some decent iMovie editing skills - learning all by himself. Durability-wise, the Pro-level iPhones are the new Nokia 3310s.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  As a reverse example, my wife _just_ switched from iPhone to Android (Samsung S21) because she was sick and tired of her iPhone not doing what she wanted it to. The cries of "arg, why is it doing that?!?" were pretty common. Things like adding a song to it using iTunes, only to get in the car and it turns out it's not on the phone (the phone wants to grab it from the cloud... and we don't have unlimited data).
cute_boi 6y ago
this is my experience too. Samsung is all about marketing. I bought s6 which didn't even last 5 hour of battery life on usage. And after 2 year it died so easily. Then there was Samsung Washing Machine which started giving lot of issue after 2 years. My life has become lot better and peaceful after getting rid of samsung crap. Samsung doesn't deserve our money.
jonshariat 6y ago
My experience has been with their TVs, really poor experience so far. Software fails all the time (this is less than 1 year old), screen is black, needs to be rebooted to work again. Remote started firing multiple times at random too.

jonquark 6y ago

I'd really like some sort of "Best Before" label on electronics with a date that said how long the manufacturer was commiting to security updates. But there are issues - what exactly constitutes a security update, how frequently and timely are the patches -what if the manufacture goes bankrupt....

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

Interesting to see Galaxy M series on the list, they're made in India/Made for India smartphones, Decent hardware but subsidized with bloat. The Samsung One UI in the M series seems completely different to One UI from other Samsung devices, especially from other countries. It has all the international data hoarder apps and their local equivalents preloaded in the firmware. Apps install notifications from Samsung store masquerade as security updates notification. Even after disabling the bloat I could, the phone shows about 3000 requests from the blocked list/day on Pi hole. This kind of discriminatory behavior is unacceptable but goes unnoticed as Samsung is pulling this off only in India AFAIK.

solarkraft 6y ago
> data hoarder apps Do you mean spyware? Data hoarding is a term usually applied to archiving public media, not personal data.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  True, But I've seen data hoarding used negatively to imply anti-privacy behavior[1]. [1] 'Facebook has suspended ‘tens of thousands’ of apps suspected of hoarding data'- https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/20/facebook-suspends-apps-hoarding-data/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/20/facebook-suspends-apps-hoa...
vitorgrs 6y ago
Galaxy M are made in Brazil, in Brazil (just like any other Samsung HW here)
Tijdreiziger 6y ago
I'm not familiar with the M series, but isn't it possible to disable the apps from the settings? E.g. on my (European) Galaxy S9, Facebook services are preinstalled, but I can go to Settings > Apps, choose 'Show system apps' [in the 'three dots' menu], then choose (e.g.) Facebook Services > Disable.

plusfour 6y ago

updates it with garbage

deostroll 6y ago

Why hasn't anyone noticed that along with security updates apps also get installed? For e.g, in India Moj or PhonePe gets installed...

perryizgr8 6y ago
Because it is not true, I haven't noticed this on my S10. Edit: A bit of searching has revealed that it may be true for mid/low tier devices.
- dartharva 6y ago
  That's a flagship device. Obviously they won't be doing that to flagship devices.
  - cute_boi 6y ago
    In India they do such thing even on flagship device.
    - perryizgr8 6y ago
      No, as I said, I have an S10. There are no extra apps after update.
- deostroll 6y ago
  Mine was a galaxy a50. (Non-flagship).

effingwewt 6y ago

Doesn't matter in the least Samsung phones are now some of the most malware infected phones out there. Check google play store reviews of Carrier Hub[1], and Mobile Installer from SoftBank[2]. Both were installed by Samsung in a recent mandatory, forced within 72 hours update Neither can be uninstalled without root, and will show uninstalled and instantly re-install itself,since both have root access...which they say they keep from us for 'security'. Fuck Samsung I will never touch their garbage again. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ms.smf.services https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ms.... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ce.updater https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ce.... Edit for clarity

heavyset_go 6y ago

Honestly, I wish they'd just jump over to Tizen with an Anbox layer for Android apps.

pjmlp 6y ago
It would be nice, at least we would have again a mobile OS with first party support for .NET, but I doubt they will bother. Then there is the whole issue with the code quality from Enlightenment.

butz 6y ago

More Android phone manufacturers should join this "who can support their phones for a longest time" race. Everyone will be a winner.

dartharva 6y ago

Samsung is notoriously aggressive against customization though, it puts a lot of hurdles for people trying to root their phones and will disable many functionalities once it detects a breached Knox counter.

sempron64 6y ago

Windows 10 was released in 2015 and will receive security updates for the foreseeable future. This should be the standard for reliable operation.

vitorgrs 6y ago
Windows RT devices launched in 2012, will get updates until 2023.