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Researchers propose that humidity from masks may lessen severity of Covid-19
- MengerSponge 6y agoI don't work in the biological sciences, but my money's on the variolation argument more than the humidity behind your mask. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 Here's why: Humidity affects the dessication of droplets, which in turn shifts what fraction become airborne (as aerosols) or settle out (as droplets). In the tiny enclosed volume between your face and your mask, that difference doesn't matter, because the whole volume is exchanged multiple times with each breath. Masks reduce the number of viruses that you're exposed to, so even if you are exposed to enough to make you sick, you get less sick than you would have otherwise.
- andylei 6y ago> Humidity affects the dessication of droplets, which in turn shifts what fraction become airborne (as aerosols) or settle out (as droplets). In the tiny enclosed volume between your face and your mask, that difference doesn't matter, because the whole volume is exchanged multiple times with each breath. The article doesn't say anything about droplets or the number of viral particles you get exposed to. From the article: > hydration of the respiratory tract is known to benefit the immune system.
- ndnfjttkrk 6y agoOne unexpected discovery for me was that wearing a tight FFP3 mask is quite pleasant during cold winter weather. It's very effective at warming up the air, probably because it mixes it with the one in the dead space.
- deftnerd 6y agoI've had the same experience in general. my lips often get chapped in sub freezing weather, but that hasn't happened this year.
- CarVac 6y agoIt's pleasant in short bursts but I find that after walking to work for 25 minutes in sub-freezing weather, my mask gets clogged with condensation and becomes stifling to breathe through. During the spring though, I found that wearing a mask completely prevented all of my seasonal allergy symptoms.
- MisterBastahrd 6y agoI found that too, especially when I had some bronchial / throat irritation that would normally encourage me to cough.
- Jabbles 6y agoThis is probably because it eliminates the wind chill factor.
- gruez 6y agoYeah it basically acts like a ski mask for a good portion of your face.
- switch007 6y agoAnd even that benefit isn't enough for many people to wear masks unless absolutely required (e.g. inside shops). It's been unusually cold the past few weeks in the UK and I've seen less and less mask usage on busy streets and even shop queues.
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoI can't speak for anyone else, but in NYC I've been finding I have to take my mask off outside or I literally can't see, because that's how much my glasses fog up. Like, I walked straight into a pole one night. After that, I decided that the increased risk of getting COVID was lower than the risk of getting hit by a car. I do know it's not this bad for everyone, and I have tried different methods to mitigate it—anti-fog spray, different masks, etc. From what I've read it's largely dependent on the shape of your face, so I assume I just lost the lottery there.
- switch007 6y agoOh, I sympathise even though I don’t wear prescriptions. I do like to wear sunglasses quite often, and even thought it’d help reduce a vector of infection. But I can’t get a mask and sunglasses combo that works for more than 10 seconds!
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoI mitigate it by simply not covering my nose. Before I started doing that, condensation on my glasses was so bad on certain days, that I had to have my partner lead me by the hand across pedestrian crossings, because I could see neither the lights nor cars. Mask laws were instituted to get people to cover both nose and mouth, but it is interesting to see different levels of observance across Europe. In small-town Poland, for example, I see a lot of people not covering their nose, while in Romania I saw that people were very diligent about covering their whole face, and I have laughed to watch Albanian news and see that a lot of people in the street just have the mask over their chin with neither mouth nor nose covered.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
- Jabbles 6y agoWhat about humidity of the environment? Is that a reason behind the success of countries like Thailand, Vietnam in tackling Covid? Possibly relevant study: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-virology-012420-022445 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-virology-0...
- xxpor 6y agoPlaces like the US have wildly varying levels of humidity, seems like a good place to study that
- bpodgursky 6y agoYou'd have to separate out the effect of AC though. In the hottest and wettest parts of the country, people may actually live more of their lives in cold and dry air-conditioned environments than in the north...
- xxpor 6y agoOof, that's a good point. And lots of people in the inland west (we're it's extremely dry) have whole home humidifiers...
- doliveira 6y agoYeah Brazil and specifically Manaus in the middle of the Amazon rainforest is doing a great job.
- scythe 6y agoConsidering that Brazilian scientists described the government's strategy as an "institutional strategy to spread the coronavirus"[1] and they're reporting a lower death rate than France[2], you have to figure something in Brazil is working in humanity's favor. It can't make up for (probably) the worst policies in the world, of course. [1]: https://english.elpais.com/americas/2021-01-29/study-finds-that-brazils-jair-bolsonaro-carried-out-an-institutional-strategy-to-spread-the-coronavirus.html https://english.elpais.com/americas/2021-01-29/study-finds-t... [2]: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
- luxuryballs 6y agoI propose that when handled by the average citizen they also increase the risk of bacterial pneumonia as you filter your warm moist breath through a bacteria catcher/cultivator.
- ceejayoz 6y agoWe'd have an absolutely massive uptick in non-COVID pneumonia if that were the case. (It'd also be a known phenomenon for surgeons, dentists, nurses, painters, drywall installers, nail technicians, etc. who've been using masks for decades.)
- luxuryballs 6y agoHow do you know we don’t? They are instructed by CDC to mark them as covid even if unsure.
- ceejayoz 6y agoWe know because, again, various professions have been using masks extensively for decades without all dropping dead of pneumonia. Your theory also falls down with the spikey nature of hospitalizations/deaths. If it were the masks, you'd see a steadily high count of these, not outbreaks that come and go. The big early spikes in Italy and NYC were before masking at all became a thing, even.
- sofixa 6y ago> The big early spikes in Italy and NYC were before masking at all became a thing, even. And the first wave, which triggered the first wave of lockdowns, was all during the time where there were barely enough masks for medical personnel, let alone the general public.
- luxuryballs 6y agokeyword: professionals
- deleted 6y ago
- nmstoker 6y agoI wonder if they're any similar effect at play worth those who sleep/breathe with their mouth open vs closed. Would need proper testing but the "arm chair" thinking here is two fold: 1. the nasal passage is specifically intended to help inhaled air warm and be mildly humidified 2. A tendency to sleep with your mouth open is more common in those who are overweight and they've often been observed to be hit worse by Covid I'm mainly thinking point 1 here, as point 2 is probably just a convenient coincidence, but you never know (until it's tested or at least considered by more of an expert in this field than me the amateur!)
- SubiculumCode 6y agoTo add to your thinking: COVID infection is usually most dominant in the nasal passages. The lungs are less vulnerable to infection, but may get infected via the upper respiratory system via aspiration. This is a really interesting read: https://sph.unc.edu/sph-news/researchers-map-how-coronavirus-infection-travels-through-cells-of-nasal-cavity-and-respiratory-tract/ https://sph.unc.edu/sph-news/researchers-map-how-coronavirus...
- DoofusOfDeath 6y agoWhen sleeping, do obese people generally do more mouth-breathing? (IIRC, obesity is a major risk factor for sleep apnea.) If so, it might take some legwork to untangle those two factors (mouth breathing vs other obesity issues) to explain covid's disproportionate impact on obese people.
- loveistheanswer 6y agoThere is indeed compelling evidence that nose breathing has many health benefits compared to mouth breathing. Including but not limited to better sleep, and immume function. https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/health-benefits-of-breathing-through-your-nose https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/health-benefits-of-br...
- johnohara 6y agoThis story from back in April 2020 made the rounds but didn't receive the attention it may have deserved [0]. I cited this story because it pointed out that the air was heated along with being humidified. This is the original press release from U of C Medicine [1]. [0] https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/4/25/21236187/coronavirus-uchicago-medicine-cannulas-ventilator-alternative-hospital-covid-19 https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/4/25/21236187/... [1]https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/uchicago-medicine-doctors-see-truly-remarkable-success-using-ventilator-alternatives-to-treat-covid19 https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disea...
- protoman3000 6y agoWhy do so many people exist, who outright disregard any public hygiene? Why do you enter a public bathroom, touch your privates with unwashed hands and then leave without washing your hands? Why do you spit on the floor? Why do you sneeze and cough in public transport without covering your mouth and nose? Can stupidity or ignorance alone explain this germ spreading behavior? What are the psychological mechanisms behind these highly infectious people? What’s wrong with them? At least we need an explanation for why we are suffering this huge amount of pain!
- vbezhenar 6y agoThey exist to train your immune system.
- dstola 6y agoHumidity also encourages bacterial growth and I doubt inhaling that constantly is healthy
- pbourke 6y agoThat is easily remediated by washing cloth masks after use.
- faitswulff 6y agoNot to mention staying out of public spaces, obviating the need for masks.
- dstola 6y agoYou would be surprised how much bacteria can grow on fabric after an 8 hour workday assuming you have a customer facing job and need to wear a mask all day
- darkerside 6y agoNot all bacteria is bad
- pbourke 6y agoIt seems like wearing a mask in some environments (public transit, crowded shops, etc) might be a good practice going forward. I wonder if it will be normalized? Will you stand out if you choose to wear a mask to the mall 5 years from now?
- TheBlight 6y agoDon't take this as a personal attack, but when I see people regularly wearing masks 5 years from now I'll certainly bias against engaging with them. I'll assume they don't understand risk and prioritize fear and emotion over reason. I won't be mean to them (nor disrespectful at all) but I will keep my distance socially (yes, somewhat ironically.)
- SteveNuts 6y agoYou can probably safely assume anyone wearing a mask in 5 years is doing so because they are sick but still need to be in public for essential everyday tasks.
- ctur 6y agoDo you feel the same way about seatbelts? If people choose to be safer by wearing masks, judging them is pretty extreme. This kind of attitude is what made the early days of the pandemic a mess.
- TheBlight 6y agoThis is a silly false equivalence but I'll engage with it because it seems annoyingly popular. The evidence of efficacy of seatbelt usage in crash scenarios is abundantly clear. The same isn't true for wearing a cloth/surgical mask in public during a pandemic featuring an airborne virus. I'm aware there are hand-wavy meta-studies and extrapolated surveys on the issue (but 1 RCT from Denmark which showed no statistical significance between control and experimental groups. See https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817) but common sense and being able to evaluate statistics of mask mandated regions vs. not indicates to me their findings are dubious at best. Even n95s are not likely useful against an airborne virus if not properly fitted and regularly replaced. What wearing the mask does show me is that a person is extremely susceptible to propaganda and likely has conformist tendencies. This isn't necessarily true in all cases but I think it will be for the majority of them. This sort of person is dangerous to bring in to your social circle because they can easily be manipulated into being an instrument of the state. I don't want to have to police my own thoughts and opinions in front of my friends and in an increasing totalitarian "cancel culture" environment this risk becomes increasingly more substantial and existential.
- pitspotter 6y agoThese days if I feel any sort of respiratory illness coming on I head straight to bed and get my head under the covers. The secret is to create a 'cave' or pocket of air by using a pole or prop to hold the duvet or comforter up like a little tent. Experience does seem to bear out that lungs prefer moist, warm air.
- amelius 6y agoI'm curious though what that would do to CO2 levels. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19411998 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19411998
- pitspotter 6y agoIt'd increase them, for sure. Never mind, though, the only cognitive effort required is a focus on gentle breathing. Plus an occasional flick of the duvet to refresh the air!
- amelius 6y agoFirst comment says: > CO2 tended to cause poor sleep, headache, and hand tremor before it caused cognitive issues.
- pitspotter 6y agoThe idea isn't to go to sleep but to avert a full-blown cold or other respiratory infection if possible. Usually takes 15-45 minutes. But you have to catch it right at the start and you have to be at home, obviously. If you're concerned about carbon dioxide you can either refresh the air periodically or you can create a small gap in the duvet to allow some exchange of air with the surrounding room (whilst keeping the humidity relatively high).
- ppf 6y agoIt does seem to me that this has been done ass-backwards. That is - first mask mandates (and in many countries, too), then the research that supports the idea that they do anything. Or, in this case, "researchers propose".
- lucb1e 6y agoWhat would you propose we do instead? Give a group masks and tell a control group explicitly to not wear masks, then see who contracts COVID more often? There is such a thing called ethics. You can't experiment on people when you have good reason to expect something will be harmful for them, like feed them cancerous stuff to see what happens. But you can check what happened to the people that didn't comply, for example those that accidentally ate that food, and still learn something. Telling people to wear masks, even if there is a chance it doesn't help, is not a weird idea during a pandemic. The chance of it being counterproductive was fairly negligible compared to the chance of it helping, and so you should do it. Or did I misunderstand what you meant there?
- sofixa 6y agoNo, mask mandates were because masks stop you from inflecting other people if you're sick and don't know it yet by stopping the air you exhale and limiting its range. This is research that wearing a mask actually help you have a lesser form of Covid, entirely independently of propagation.
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- afterburner 6y agoMeasure the humidity in the air where you live, especially where you sleep (and therefore probably spend most of your time). If it's below 30% in the winter, get a humidifier good enough to actually raise it. If you can't get a humidifier good enough to humidify your entire living spaces, try just your bedroom.