14 ms·

>The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowin

by ginko 6y ago

>The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to third-parties and Facebook should somehow be faulted for that. Even so you wrote yourself that users shared data about their friends. Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this?

indigochill 6y ago
If I put on my blinders against this being Facebook for a moment, supposing that you're on a social network in which your friend is someone you personally trust, then it's not that ridiculous to trust that person with the decision to share your data. In a very limited way, you kind of expect this (your friend giving your number to someone who they think you'll get along with, or whatever). This goes a bit sideways on Facebook in two main ways, I think: 1. People are way too fast and loose with who they keep as "friends" on Facebook 2. Facebook has way too much data to warrant a blanket "Yeah, please share -all- of that at once" agreement. Something more granular, like "The phone numbers of your friends who have themselves granted permissions for their friends to share their numbers" would be more reasonable.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- PeterisP 6y ago
  The thing here is that "you're on a social network in which your friend is someone you personally trust, then it's not that ridiculous to trust that person with the decision to share your data" does not match the legal expectation. If my friend allows Facebook to give my data to Cambridge Analytica, that does not give Facebook any legal grounds to do that - so as Facebook did it, it would be a violation at least of the current laws (the UK pre-GDPR legislation was more limited). You are required to inform the data subject and, if you use consent as the basis, you're required to get consent from the data subject (or their legal guardian), not some other person, even if that person is their friend or family member. My spouse or parent can't consent to sharing data on my behalf, and any terms and conditions to which they agree can't waive my rights. Also, it's worth noting that there is a big difference between "your friend giving your number to someone who they think you'll get along with" and your friend sharing your name and number to some company - for GDPR, the first is covered by the "personal activity" clause 2.2(d), and the latter is not, so GDPR applies and the consent of that friend isn't sufficient, i.e. the friend is permitted to click "share", however, that does not necessarily mean that the company is permitted to use the data shared in this manner. So every company that expects EU users to share their phone contact lists had better be very careful on what and how they do it - you can't rely on informing users or getting consent as you're informing someone else and getting someone else's consent.
- zaphar 6y ago
  In a very limited way, you kind of expect this (your friend giving your number to someone who they think you'll get along with, or whatever). I absolutely do not expect this. Nor would I be okay with a friend sharing my number to someone they think I'll get along with. I don't think I'm alone in this either.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Because open Internet principles as understood at the time required that. Facebook used to be heavily criticized (see e.g https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2007/08/open-social-net/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2007/08/open-soci...) for locking data into their platform when it ought to be available on the open web. There was a pervasive sense that you should be able to authorize third parties to do anything you can do through the official webapp; the term “walled garden” was common for platforms that wouldn’t offer this level of control.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Indeed - we should remember that a good chunk of the complaints about Facebook are because they opened up an API to anyone who granted permission, as demanded by power users like us who wanted different services to interoperate seemlessly.
stickfigure 6y ago
> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? I have names, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdates, email contents, and more for most of my friends. There's no centralized arbiter of this information; I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. And I do! I switch email providers, install apps on my phone, use calendaring systems, tell our friends where to meet for surprise birthday parties, etc. I don't need your consent for any of it, because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. Inserting Facebook in this process doesn't really change the dynamic.
- ginko 6y ago
  > I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. > because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. That's just not true. Why would you think that?!
  - voxic11 6y ago
    > Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. Absurd, how would an email provider or social network even work if you couldn't enter your friends contact information.
    - leothecool 6y ago
      There is an exception for data that is required for the functioning of the service. You need your friends email address to use email, but do you really need their birthday or a sentiment analysis of their opinion of cheesecakes?
      - prostoalex 6y ago
        > but do you really need their birthday or a sentiment analysis of their opinion of cheesecakes If you go back to the Wild West of the Facebook apps, shortly after platform launch there was an app for everything - apps for fancy birthday cards with birthday reminders, as well as polling apps telling you which one of your friends is the biggest cheesecake lover. Every piece of data can be spun into being essential.
prostoalex 6y ago
> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? "Why did Facebook allow" - they changed the practice on friends' data sharing a few years ago. Every app that implores you to import your phone contacts does this.

by ginko 6y ago

indigochill 6y ago

If I put on my blinders against this being Facebook for a moment, supposing that you're on a social network in which your friend is someone you personally trust, then it's not that ridiculous to trust that person with the decision to share your data. In a very limited way, you kind of expect this (your friend giving your number to someone who they think you'll get along with, or whatever). This goes a bit sideways on Facebook in two main ways, I think: 1. People are way too fast and loose with who they keep as "friends" on Facebook 2. Facebook has way too much data to warrant a blanket "Yeah, please share -all- of that at once" agreement. Something more granular, like "The phone numbers of your friends who have themselves granted permissions for their friends to share their numbers" would be more reasonable.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
PeterisP 6y ago
The thing here is that "you're on a social network in which your friend is someone you personally trust, then it's not that ridiculous to trust that person with the decision to share your data" does not match the legal expectation. If my friend allows Facebook to give my data to Cambridge Analytica, that does not give Facebook any legal grounds to do that - so as Facebook did it, it would be a violation at least of the current laws (the UK pre-GDPR legislation was more limited). You are required to inform the data subject and, if you use consent as the basis, you're required to get consent from the data subject (or their legal guardian), not some other person, even if that person is their friend or family member. My spouse or parent can't consent to sharing data on my behalf, and any terms and conditions to which they agree can't waive my rights. Also, it's worth noting that there is a big difference between "your friend giving your number to someone who they think you'll get along with" and your friend sharing your name and number to some company - for GDPR, the first is covered by the "personal activity" clause 2.2(d), and the latter is not, so GDPR applies and the consent of that friend isn't sufficient, i.e. the friend is permitted to click "share", however, that does not necessarily mean that the company is permitted to use the data shared in this manner. So every company that expects EU users to share their phone contact lists had better be very careful on what and how they do it - you can't rely on informing users or getting consent as you're informing someone else and getting someone else's consent.
zaphar 6y ago
In a very limited way, you kind of expect this (your friend giving your number to someone who they think you'll get along with, or whatever). I absolutely do not expect this. Nor would I be okay with a friend sharing my number to someone they think I'll get along with. I don't think I'm alone in this either.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Because open Internet principles as understood at the time required that. Facebook used to be heavily criticized (see e.g https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2007/08/open-social-net/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2007/08/open-soci...) for locking data into their platform when it ought to be available on the open web. There was a pervasive sense that you should be able to authorize third parties to do anything you can do through the official webapp; the term “walled garden” was common for platforms that wouldn’t offer this level of control.

londons_explore 6y ago
Indeed - we should remember that a good chunk of the complaints about Facebook are because they opened up an API to anyone who granted permission, as demanded by power users like us who wanted different services to interoperate seemlessly.

stickfigure 6y ago

> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? I have names, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdates, email contents, and more for most of my friends. There's no centralized arbiter of this information; I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. And I do! I switch email providers, install apps on my phone, use calendaring systems, tell our friends where to meet for surprise birthday parties, etc. I don't need your consent for any of it, because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. Inserting Facebook in this process doesn't really change the dynamic.

ginko 6y ago
> I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. > because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. That's just not true. Why would you think that?!
- voxic11 6y ago
  > Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. Absurd, how would an email provider or social network even work if you couldn't enter your friends contact information.
  - leothecool 6y ago
    There is an exception for data that is required for the functioning of the service. You need your friends email address to use email, but do you really need their birthday or a sentiment analysis of their opinion of cheesecakes?
    - prostoalex 6y ago
      > but do you really need their birthday or a sentiment analysis of their opinion of cheesecakes If you go back to the Wild West of the Facebook apps, shortly after platform launch there was an app for everything - apps for fancy birthday cards with birthday reminders, as well as polling apps telling you which one of your friends is the biggest cheesecake lover. Every piece of data can be spun into being essential.

prostoalex 6y ago

> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? "Why did Facebook allow" - they changed the practice on friends' data sharing a few years ago. Every app that implores you to import your phone contacts does this.