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Well, in case of bodybuilding you need very hefty dose of hormones to even start looking like low level competitors. The bodybuilding physique isn't good for an

Well, in case of bodybuilding you need very hefty dose of hormones to even start looking like low level competitors. The bodybuilding physique isn't good for any particular activity. It's neither useful nor healthy. It's all organized so you need to grow yourself like cattle (bodybuilders even take steroids designed for making cattle killed for meat muscular). This is already terrible enough for men but for women it's way worse as their bodies are even less equipped to cope with huge artificial levels of male sex hormones and their derivatives. I think it is a terrible sport. It's not only terrible for the competitors but also for the culture as a whole as normalizing steroid physique hurts normal people. It's not only bodybuilding by the way. Fitness magazines and Hollywood actors take most of the blame to be sure.

rubyn00bie 6y ago
Truly. I do not think most people are aware of prolific steroid usage is... It mostly boils down to people pumping themselves full of steroids up until a week or so before the competition so they test clean. With almost zero body fat, most drugs are metabolized and removed from the body really quickly. It was pretty depressing to realize that body-building is totally gamed and drug based. Not because I was ever into it, I think it's corny, it's just a real disservice to the ideal of healthy living.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  I think people are quite aware of how prolific steroid usage in bodybuilding is. It's the movie actor physiques that people aren't as aware of.
  - bluecalm 6y ago
    Movie actors, fitness/underwear models, basically everyone on the cover of Men's Health or on a movie poster. Hell, very significant % of not so impressingly looking guys in your local gym are on steroids. Just Google for stats on steroid usage, estimate how many people go to a gym and think what it means. The mystery of Hollywood diet and training to lose 10kg of fat and to put 5kg of muscle in 60 days starts to make sense as well. In many areas of the world it's completely risk-free as well as you won't get busted for possession of Testosterone or even stuff like Trenbolone.
    - User23 6y ago
      Trenbolone is legal to possess in the USA. It's only illegal when you start putting it in yourself instead of cattle.
      - sterlind 6y ago
        Trenbolone is Schedule III. It's illegal to possess unless you have a prescription, you can't legally order some without a vet prescribing it for your cow.
        User23 6y ago
        The actual drug trenbolone is scheduled, but a number of trenbolone preparations are (or at least were) exempted from the CSA because of their agricultural importance[1]. As I said, it instantly becomes a CSA violation the second a nonveterinary use occurs, but simple possession of unaltered Finaplix-H, for example, is or at least was just fine. [1] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1997-10-03/html/97-25973.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1997-10-03/html/97-25...
    - ameister14 6y ago
      Also age - it's actually possible to lose 10kg of fat and gain 5kg of muscle in 60 days without any testosterone or whatever boosters when you're 22. I have a very, very hard time believing you can do this at age 48-50, like Josh Brolin did to play Thanos.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        When I was 20 and started lifting regularly, I put on a lot of muscle very fast. But I plateaued in about 6 months and was never able to go past that. I didn't do any steriods, because a friend of mine went from "pillsbury doughboy" (his assessment) to very jacked in about 9 months. He used steroids, and was shocked to find he'd lost a couple inches in height. The doc told him it was the steroids, and even worse, he'd still lose the usual height when he aged (we all shrink as we age). He was pretty bummed about it, but still became very popular with the ladies and was happy about that.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear. Thus, (with rare exceptions, like Christian Bale between The Machinist and Batman Begins), what you see on screen today is hard-earned through hours a day in the gym, a very regimented diet, and hydration timing. Generally, to get to the level of single-digits body fat you see on screen, you're looking at 3-6 months of clean eating (or more, depending on the actor's physique when they land the role), meaning among other things, no alcohol, no sweets, and lots of eggs or chicken meals. Someone being paid a few million dollars can afford to pay a nutritionist to custom-design a diet to meet specific appearance goals, a and they have a huge incentive to stick with that diet. For example, Chris Pratt had to give up beer, pizza, and all dietary pleasures for six months to go from being the fat guy on Parks and Rec to the main hero of Guardians of the Galaxy. On top of the diet, the actor is spending hours on near-daily exercise for several months. Chris Hemsworth eschews cardio for pure muscle-building, but Paul Rudd and Kumail Nujani each spent a year preparing for their Marvel roles, using a blend of cardio and full-body workouts (as, in contrast to Thor, Ant Man and Kingo have lean physiques but neither actor was particularly athletic when cast), while Pratt spent nearly 6 hours a day, 6 days a week, for over 6 months on cardio activities to cut weight for the first Guardians movie (as he already had the muscle for the character underneath his excess bulk and just needed to reveal them). But the real trick to the "cut" look on screen is dehydration; actors don't drink for several hours before shirtless scenes, which makes them appear thinner and more defined. (In several interviews, Kumail Nujani talks about nearly passing out after several filming several shirtless scenes for The Eternals, which required him to limit water consumption for nearly 12 hours before shooting.) This is something you can actually try yourself at home: take a before pic, spend a few hours on a long cardio activity like running or biking, and then take an after pic before you rehydrate. You will appear thinner and your muscles (if they were visible beforehand) will appear more well-defined, even though they aren't any bigger.
    - bluecalm 6y ago
      Just look at athletes before widespread steroid use. They have spent way more time training than actors and haven't looked like that even in sports that require dehydration like boxing. That's exactly the problem with lying about steroids. It took a while for Arnold and his successors to admit that they were on 1000mg of test per week (plus other stuff of course; normal production of even high test men is below 100mg). Now people believe that yeah that bodybuilders are obviously juiced but physiques of elite athletes like soccer players or Hollywood actors are natural because they are smaller. Remember, significant % of guys in your local gym are on juice. There are no doping controls in Hollywood. Testosterone won't kill you, it may even make your life better if you use it wisely. Would you take it if million dollars and fame were on the line? We know they take it because we know quite well how juiced up physiques look. Besides, if someone who is not a professional athlete did 6 hours of serious training per day their body would give up sooner rather than later unless the recovery was "enhanced". I don't condemn steroid use btw. I oppose widespread lying about it by the users and the media.
- simonbarker87 6y ago
  Pretty much every federation is untested, steroid use isn’t a dark secret in BB (like it is in strongman) it’s the way to compete.
- jonnyone 6y ago
  >It mostly boils down to people pumping themselves full of steroids up until a week or so before the competition so they test clean. The most common "base" of a steroid cycle is testosterone. If you stopped injecting testosterone a week before a competition, you would still show unusually high levels of testosterone in your blood (even if you were using a shorter ester). But as others have pointed out, they don't test for steroids in most BB competitions. My personal suspicion is that pro BBers who use steroids but deny it do so to protect product endorsements they have.
  - bluecalm 6y ago
    There is also no ester test. You have to inject it daily (or more likely several times a day) but it's detectable for like 4-5 hours. This plus first two no-shows not counting as failed test makes it possible to juice in professional sports which do out of competition testing. Granted I don't think it's popular in BB circles because yeah no testing and injecting as much as frequently would be painful.
- watwut 6y ago
  After reading the whole article, there is nothing healthy about any of that. Even absent drugs, the whole thing is unhealthy.
- Bakary 6y ago
  If everyone is gaming the system, then nobody is.
  - bluecalm 6y ago
    They are gaming the public selling the dream and positioning themselves as fitness authorities, coaches, idols etc.
    - Bakary 6y ago
      Everyone's trying to game the public, from clerics to tech workers to politicians. Bodybuilders seem like a relatively insignificant part of that permanent and massive sale. I can understand the frustration, but I don't think it's a good idea to take a paternalistic approach in this case.
  - da_big_ghey 6y ago
    Yep, this is known as a positional arms race. For other examples, see how everyone now goes to college: when 25% of applicants do it, it's a competitive advantage for them, so everyone else moves towards doing it. https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/23501/1/DP-54.pdf https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/23501/1/DP-54.pdf
    - brianwawok 6y ago
      Sure. The drawback of too many people going to college is more knowledge in the world. What’s the drawback of people taking roids for years on end?
- driverdan 6y ago
  > It mostly boils down to people pumping themselves full of steroids up until a week or so before the competition so they test clean. This is wrong. None of the pro competitions do drug testing and no one stops using a week out. If they did test there wouldn't be any competitors.
  - nsajko 6y ago
    There are some competitions with testing. However, seeing the physiques of the competitors on the relevant websites, I'm convinced they do indeed use anabolics or at least something to cut fat: https://naturalbodybuilding.com https://naturalbodybuilding.com https://www.worldnaturalbb.com https://www.worldnaturalbb.com I guess the testing may be somehow fraudulent, or maybe it's just a fundamentally misconcieved procedure: maybe it's not possible to test for use of all or certain substances.
    - driverdan 6y ago
      There are tested orgs but most, if not all are not considered pro. They do lie detector tests. I don't know if any do actual blood tests. Steroids, especially test, are hard to check for.
- paulpauper 6y ago
  there would be no bodybuilding without steroids, at least not in the way it is commonly understood. The physical transformation the body undergoes by taking anabolic steroids at high doses is like night and day. Without steroids, all the physiques would appear flat or emaciated, without the 'wow' factor.
CydeWeys 6y ago
I will say that strongman is interesting. It eliminates the cutting weight aspect of bodybuilding at least, though admittedly retains the steroid abuse aspect. I think it fundamentally answers an interesting question though in a way that bodybuilding maybe doesn't, namely: What is the absolute limit of strength that the human body is capable of?
- jaegerpicker 6y ago
  While I understand that A LOT of strongman competitors are using steroids, it is entirely possible to compete without them. I know this because I've done it. Not at the international level but at a state level and placed very well. I've never taken a PED in my life. I was also a successful power lifter without PED's (550lbs bench press, 680lbs deadlift, and 725lbs squat at my peak). Those who don't compete don't understand what the human body can be capable of. Don't get me wrong I'm blessed with a lot of natural ability but everyone can be far stronger than they think without the aid of PED's.
  - CydeWeys 6y ago
    Yeah, I was referring to the top-level international competitions, the ones where we find out the absolute limit of no-holds-barred strength. Your numbers are absolutely impressive of course, but wouldn't have qualified you for the highest levels of competition (as you know). Hafthor Bjornsson has deadlifted an unbelievable 1,104 pounds, and you know that he's not natural. But without all the juice, we wouldn't even know that breaking 500 kg is at all possible.
  - simonbarker87 6y ago
    I think mobility and staying injury free are probably more important at the level you were at than PEDs and an aspect that many people underestimate. My squat topped out at 300 simply because of old injuries and mobility limitations caused by them. Clearly strongmen on the international stage are using though.
    - eredengrin 6y ago
Bakary 6y ago
>I think it is a terrible sport. It's not only terrible for the competitors but also for the culture as a whole as normalizing steroid physique hurts normal people. It's not only bodybuilding by the way. Fitness magazines and Hollywood actors take most of the blame to be sure. The world is growing fatter by the year so it does not seem as though people are too stressed about those conceptions of the body being thrown around. If anything, the normalization of obesity is a far more pressing threat. Just looking at recent stats is awe-inducing, and not in a good way.[0] [0]https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- xirbeosbwo1234 6y ago
  >The world is growing fatter by the year so it does not seem as though people are too stressed about those conceptions of the body being thrown around. You are assuming that seeing an impressive physique would inspire people to attain it. That doesn't follow. Stress, depression, and low-self esteem can encourage overeating or a sedentary lifestyle. If someone believes they cannot compete with others, they may give up entirely.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    I wonder if the issue is cultural. We've, mostly, come to understand the impact of the common media representation of (often) hyper thin "perfect" women on women and girls in general, which is a lot of the reason for pushback into various (often ad) campaigns to present more typical female forms. But, like many things, there's a lag in the appreciation that men can experience the same thing and have similar reactions. Perhaps because it occurs in smaller numbers (not sure), or just a different attitude towards how men should be. Admitting that men have similar body image issues and due to similar causes as women is harder for people to consider, let alone accept.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
steele 6y ago
I think I understand your perspective. Alternatively, how about truly normalizing steroid physiques out in the open, instead of as an open secret. That might make clear the benefits, risks, and costs. The taboo & black market sourcing of synthetic hormones/PEDs hurt normal people in ways that would happen without bodybuilding, fitness magazines, & Hollywood.

rubyn00bie 6y ago

Truly. I do not think most people are aware of prolific steroid usage is... It mostly boils down to people pumping themselves full of steroids up until a week or so before the competition so they test clean. With almost zero body fat, most drugs are metabolized and removed from the body really quickly. It was pretty depressing to realize that body-building is totally gamed and drug based. Not because I was ever into it, I think it's corny, it's just a real disservice to the ideal of healthy living.

CydeWeys 6y ago
I think people are quite aware of how prolific steroid usage in bodybuilding is. It's the movie actor physiques that people aren't as aware of.
- bluecalm 6y ago
  Movie actors, fitness/underwear models, basically everyone on the cover of Men's Health or on a movie poster. Hell, very significant % of not so impressingly looking guys in your local gym are on steroids. Just Google for stats on steroid usage, estimate how many people go to a gym and think what it means. The mystery of Hollywood diet and training to lose 10kg of fat and to put 5kg of muscle in 60 days starts to make sense as well. In many areas of the world it's completely risk-free as well as you won't get busted for possession of Testosterone or even stuff like Trenbolone.
  - User23 6y ago
    Trenbolone is legal to possess in the USA. It's only illegal when you start putting it in yourself instead of cattle.
    - sterlind 6y ago
      Trenbolone is Schedule III. It's illegal to possess unless you have a prescription, you can't legally order some without a vet prescribing it for your cow.
      - User23 6y ago
        The actual drug trenbolone is scheduled, but a number of trenbolone preparations are (or at least were) exempted from the CSA because of their agricultural importance[1]. As I said, it instantly becomes a CSA violation the second a nonveterinary use occurs, but simple possession of unaltered Finaplix-H, for example, is or at least was just fine. [1] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1997-10-03/html/97-25973.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1997-10-03/html/97-25...
  - ameister14 6y ago
    Also age - it's actually possible to lose 10kg of fat and gain 5kg of muscle in 60 days without any testosterone or whatever boosters when you're 22. I have a very, very hard time believing you can do this at age 48-50, like Josh Brolin did to play Thanos.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      When I was 20 and started lifting regularly, I put on a lot of muscle very fast. But I plateaued in about 6 months and was never able to go past that. I didn't do any steriods, because a friend of mine went from "pillsbury doughboy" (his assessment) to very jacked in about 9 months. He used steroids, and was shocked to find he'd lost a couple inches in height. The doc told him it was the steroids, and even worse, he'd still lose the usual height when he aged (we all shrink as we age). He was pretty bummed about it, but still became very popular with the ladies and was happy about that.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear. Thus, (with rare exceptions, like Christian Bale between The Machinist and Batman Begins), what you see on screen today is hard-earned through hours a day in the gym, a very regimented diet, and hydration timing. Generally, to get to the level of single-digits body fat you see on screen, you're looking at 3-6 months of clean eating (or more, depending on the actor's physique when they land the role), meaning among other things, no alcohol, no sweets, and lots of eggs or chicken meals. Someone being paid a few million dollars can afford to pay a nutritionist to custom-design a diet to meet specific appearance goals, a and they have a huge incentive to stick with that diet. For example, Chris Pratt had to give up beer, pizza, and all dietary pleasures for six months to go from being the fat guy on Parks and Rec to the main hero of Guardians of the Galaxy. On top of the diet, the actor is spending hours on near-daily exercise for several months. Chris Hemsworth eschews cardio for pure muscle-building, but Paul Rudd and Kumail Nujani each spent a year preparing for their Marvel roles, using a blend of cardio and full-body workouts (as, in contrast to Thor, Ant Man and Kingo have lean physiques but neither actor was particularly athletic when cast), while Pratt spent nearly 6 hours a day, 6 days a week, for over 6 months on cardio activities to cut weight for the first Guardians movie (as he already had the muscle for the character underneath his excess bulk and just needed to reveal them). But the real trick to the "cut" look on screen is dehydration; actors don't drink for several hours before shirtless scenes, which makes them appear thinner and more defined. (In several interviews, Kumail Nujani talks about nearly passing out after several filming several shirtless scenes for The Eternals, which required him to limit water consumption for nearly 12 hours before shooting.) This is something you can actually try yourself at home: take a before pic, spend a few hours on a long cardio activity like running or biking, and then take an after pic before you rehydrate. You will appear thinner and your muscles (if they were visible beforehand) will appear more well-defined, even though they aren't any bigger.
  - bluecalm 6y ago
    Just look at athletes before widespread steroid use. They have spent way more time training than actors and haven't looked like that even in sports that require dehydration like boxing. That's exactly the problem with lying about steroids. It took a while for Arnold and his successors to admit that they were on 1000mg of test per week (plus other stuff of course; normal production of even high test men is below 100mg). Now people believe that yeah that bodybuilders are obviously juiced but physiques of elite athletes like soccer players or Hollywood actors are natural because they are smaller. Remember, significant % of guys in your local gym are on juice. There are no doping controls in Hollywood. Testosterone won't kill you, it may even make your life better if you use it wisely. Would you take it if million dollars and fame were on the line? We know they take it because we know quite well how juiced up physiques look. Besides, if someone who is not a professional athlete did 6 hours of serious training per day their body would give up sooner rather than later unless the recovery was "enhanced". I don't condemn steroid use btw. I oppose widespread lying about it by the users and the media.
simonbarker87 6y ago
Pretty much every federation is untested, steroid use isn’t a dark secret in BB (like it is in strongman) it’s the way to compete.
jonnyone 6y ago
>It mostly boils down to people pumping themselves full of steroids up until a week or so before the competition so they test clean. The most common "base" of a steroid cycle is testosterone. If you stopped injecting testosterone a week before a competition, you would still show unusually high levels of testosterone in your blood (even if you were using a shorter ester). But as others have pointed out, they don't test for steroids in most BB competitions. My personal suspicion is that pro BBers who use steroids but deny it do so to protect product endorsements they have.
- bluecalm 6y ago
  There is also no ester test. You have to inject it daily (or more likely several times a day) but it's detectable for like 4-5 hours. This plus first two no-shows not counting as failed test makes it possible to juice in professional sports which do out of competition testing. Granted I don't think it's popular in BB circles because yeah no testing and injecting as much as frequently would be painful.
watwut 6y ago
After reading the whole article, there is nothing healthy about any of that. Even absent drugs, the whole thing is unhealthy.
Bakary 6y ago
If everyone is gaming the system, then nobody is.
- bluecalm 6y ago
  They are gaming the public selling the dream and positioning themselves as fitness authorities, coaches, idols etc.
  - Bakary 6y ago
    Everyone's trying to game the public, from clerics to tech workers to politicians. Bodybuilders seem like a relatively insignificant part of that permanent and massive sale. I can understand the frustration, but I don't think it's a good idea to take a paternalistic approach in this case.
- da_big_ghey 6y ago
  Yep, this is known as a positional arms race. For other examples, see how everyone now goes to college: when 25% of applicants do it, it's a competitive advantage for them, so everyone else moves towards doing it. https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/23501/1/DP-54.pdf https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/23501/1/DP-54.pdf
  - brianwawok 6y ago
    Sure. The drawback of too many people going to college is more knowledge in the world. What’s the drawback of people taking roids for years on end?
driverdan 6y ago
> It mostly boils down to people pumping themselves full of steroids up until a week or so before the competition so they test clean. This is wrong. None of the pro competitions do drug testing and no one stops using a week out. If they did test there wouldn't be any competitors.
- nsajko 6y ago
  There are some competitions with testing. However, seeing the physiques of the competitors on the relevant websites, I'm convinced they do indeed use anabolics or at least something to cut fat: https://naturalbodybuilding.com https://naturalbodybuilding.com https://www.worldnaturalbb.com https://www.worldnaturalbb.com I guess the testing may be somehow fraudulent, or maybe it's just a fundamentally misconcieved procedure: maybe it's not possible to test for use of all or certain substances.
  - driverdan 6y ago
    There are tested orgs but most, if not all are not considered pro. They do lie detector tests. I don't know if any do actual blood tests. Steroids, especially test, are hard to check for.
paulpauper 6y ago
there would be no bodybuilding without steroids, at least not in the way it is commonly understood. The physical transformation the body undergoes by taking anabolic steroids at high doses is like night and day. Without steroids, all the physiques would appear flat or emaciated, without the 'wow' factor.

CydeWeys 6y ago

I will say that strongman is interesting. It eliminates the cutting weight aspect of bodybuilding at least, though admittedly retains the steroid abuse aspect. I think it fundamentally answers an interesting question though in a way that bodybuilding maybe doesn't, namely: What is the absolute limit of strength that the human body is capable of?

jaegerpicker 6y ago
While I understand that A LOT of strongman competitors are using steroids, it is entirely possible to compete without them. I know this because I've done it. Not at the international level but at a state level and placed very well. I've never taken a PED in my life. I was also a successful power lifter without PED's (550lbs bench press, 680lbs deadlift, and 725lbs squat at my peak). Those who don't compete don't understand what the human body can be capable of. Don't get me wrong I'm blessed with a lot of natural ability but everyone can be far stronger than they think without the aid of PED's.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  Yeah, I was referring to the top-level international competitions, the ones where we find out the absolute limit of no-holds-barred strength. Your numbers are absolutely impressive of course, but wouldn't have qualified you for the highest levels of competition (as you know). Hafthor Bjornsson has deadlifted an unbelievable 1,104 pounds, and you know that he's not natural. But without all the juice, we wouldn't even know that breaking 500 kg is at all possible.
- simonbarker87 6y ago
  I think mobility and staying injury free are probably more important at the level you were at than PEDs and an aspect that many people underestimate. My squat topped out at 300 simply because of old injuries and mobility limitations caused by them. Clearly strongmen on the international stage are using though.
  - eredengrin 6y ago

Bakary 6y ago

>I think it is a terrible sport. It's not only terrible for the competitors but also for the culture as a whole as normalizing steroid physique hurts normal people. It's not only bodybuilding by the way. Fitness magazines and Hollywood actors take most of the blame to be sure. The world is growing fatter by the year so it does not seem as though people are too stressed about those conceptions of the body being thrown around. If anything, the normalization of obesity is a far more pressing threat. Just looking at recent stats is awe-inducing, and not in a good way.[0] [0]https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
xirbeosbwo1234 6y ago
>The world is growing fatter by the year so it does not seem as though people are too stressed about those conceptions of the body being thrown around. You are assuming that seeing an impressive physique would inspire people to attain it. That doesn't follow. Stress, depression, and low-self esteem can encourage overeating or a sedentary lifestyle. If someone believes they cannot compete with others, they may give up entirely.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  I wonder if the issue is cultural. We've, mostly, come to understand the impact of the common media representation of (often) hyper thin "perfect" women on women and girls in general, which is a lot of the reason for pushback into various (often ad) campaigns to present more typical female forms. But, like many things, there's a lag in the appreciation that men can experience the same thing and have similar reactions. Perhaps because it occurs in smaller numbers (not sure), or just a different attitude towards how men should be. Admitting that men have similar body image issues and due to similar causes as women is harder for people to consider, let alone accept.
  - WalterBright 6y ago

steele 6y ago

I think I understand your perspective. Alternatively, how about truly normalizing steroid physiques out in the open, instead of as an open secret. That might make clear the benefits, risks, and costs. The taboo & black market sourcing of synthetic hormones/PEDs hurt normal people in ways that would happen without bodybuilding, fitness magazines, & Hollywood.