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Woman Is Sentenced to 43 Years for Criticizing Thai Monarchy

383 points by mzs 6y ago

tamaharbor 6y ago
Coming to America soon (for Trump supporters at least).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kemiller2002 6y ago
  Hopefully they can criticize the government all they want still. It's that storm the Capitol building looking to overthrow the government that is going to earn them a timeout.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    Still a question remains that why the military went there instead of just the police? Generally the military is trained in killing people and the police in deescalation and keeping order inside the country. I’m still very optimistic for the US. I’m not a Joe Biden fan, but the people who he selected so far look knowledgable, which is a big improvement over many other countries.
    - klmadfejno 6y ago
      Because there were people there hoping to kill political leaders and the police did not have control of the situation.
      - Amezarak 6y ago
        The DoJ is now walking back those claims. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/15/qanon-shaman-trump-kill-pardon/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/15/qanon-shama... > On Friday, however, Assistant U.S. Attorney Todd Allison walked back the claim of an assassination plot, saying that while it “may very well be appropriate at a trial,” raising it at this stage could “mislead the court.” [...] > We don’t have any direct evidence of kill/capture teams,” Sherwin said at a Friday news briefing. NB: It never ceases to surprise me that people take the public statements of the FBI/DoJ with its long history of overzealous and often illegal overreaches very uncritically. We're talking about an organization (the FBI) that was controlled by one of the most corrupt men in US political history for nearly half of its existence - J Edgar Hoover. Nothing much has changed. It doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you are, they are not your friend - they both tried to blackmail MLK into killing himself and sent snipers to murder a hard-right woman holding a baby at Ruby Ridge.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      The military seem to be, frankly, much better trained than the police. The US military has lots of recent experience in managing situations far more dangerous involving civilians in Afghanistan and The middle East. In contrast the US police are infamously shoot-first questions-later. Biden'd day1 plan has been leaked, it's all good to my eye, although he has a gargantuan task dealing with COVID and rebuilding trust in the government.
    - miga 6y ago
      There was military coup in 2014. In 2016, junta leader gave officers of the army were given police powers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Police#Army_deputized_as_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Police#Army_deputiz...
    - Retric 6y ago
      First police failed to control the situation. But, to make a long story short Republican governor Larry Hogan sent them in. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gov-hogan-leaders-of-congress-pleaded-with-maryland-to-send-aid-to-the-capitol/ar-BB1cyYSE https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gov-hogan-leaders-of... As to why, this goes back to the constitution. Article I, Section 8, Clause 15, and Article I, Section 10, Clause 3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard
  - chmod600 6y ago
    So the insurrectionists get a time out, or all 70M people who voted for him?
    - grey-area 6y ago
      Hopefully Trump (called for insurrection and dictatorship), and the people who constructed a gallows outside and stormed and sacked the capitol (actual insurrection) get a timeout. This should not be controversial if you like living in a democracy.
    - DFHippie 6y ago
      I don't know why you would read kemiller2002's comment as implying the actions of the insurrectionists would earn a "timeout" for everyone who voted for Trump. The insurrectionists were eager to be aggrieved about something. I guess they got their wish, those of them going into timeout. We don't all have to adopt this pose.
      - chmod600 6y ago
        Because the original post said "Trump supporters", and the reply said they attacked the capitol and should get a time out.
        DFHippie 6y ago
        I think that is an uncharitable reading of the comment you were responding to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
        chmod600 6y ago
        I was asking for clarification of an ambiguity. It's an important ambiguity to clarify, because guilt-by-association moves quickly through society.
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      Are you saying voting for the wrong person should be illegal and grounds for prosecution? I mean for one, you wouldn't / shouldn't be able to trace who voted for who; it's called anonymity in voting and it's one of the pillars of democracy. And which party you side with is a massive part of the hostility between citizens of the US right now. It's not just a vote for many, it's a personality, a tribe, something to get entrenched in and lash out to the Other Side.
  - frockington1 6y ago
    The part that worries me is AOCs Truth & Reconciliation Commission. Sounds way to similar to re-education camps and ministry of truths elsewhere
- 535188B17C93743 6y ago
  I pity you if you can't understand the difference. Really.
  - tamaharbor 6y ago
    Democrats want to destroy Trump and every one of his supporters. And that is the truth. Ps. He did not call for insurrection. The blm and antifa violence and rioting all summer was far worse than what happened at the Capitol. What kind of America do you want? Go ahead and downvote/ban me here for the truth. Democrats are the true Nazis/Fascists. Think about it. Get your head out of cnn’s ass.
    - InitialLastName 6y ago
      Somehow, whenever someone says "think about it" to make their case instead of presenting their own reason and evidence, it makes it more difficult to accept their argument as valid. To be so very clear: The downvote was for your last sentence, not the sentiment.
spaetzleesser 6y ago
Pretty sad to see this insanity happening in such a beautiful country. I guess Thailand is due for a revolution. And it seems the West doesn’t care that much about human rights abuses as long as the government only oppresses its own people while playing nice with the West otherwise (like Saudi Arabia).
- miga 6y ago
  Many civilized societies hand prison penalties that are considered insane and counterproductive by sentencing experts. US inmate composition analyses are great example: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537114001146 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092753711... https://jlc.org/news/what-foster-care-prison-pipeline https://jlc.org/news/what-foster-care-prison-pipeline Regretfully it is hard to sue the foster-child-care system as sharing guilt for the civil damages done to these children:
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    As much as US is a good example, it's also a country with by far the worst incarceration rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
    - iguy 6y ago
      Interesting that Thailand is in 5th place on that list, 80% the US rate. And about 65% the murder rate (placing them pretty close together on the world scale): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... Also interesting that including high estimates for China's "re-education" camps would still only move them up to about 30th place, for incarceration, somewhere around Russia/Turkey/Nigeria. Although that's one area being diluted by the whole.
- yokto 6y ago
  Due to its unique geographical situation, Thailand already had more revolutions than any other country. It has the highest largest-to-second-largest-city ratio among comparably sized countries, making it ideal for coups. See more here: https://youtu.be/S9SMRuvnl2g https://youtu.be/S9SMRuvnl2g
dahdum 6y ago
It's a shame they didn't even mention Germany in the article, considering that's where the king actually lives.
- coldcode 6y ago
  What kind of King lives in another country? A terrible one (good thing I don't live in Thailand).
  - billpg 6y ago
    Canada's?
  - ciceryadam 6y ago
    Also a fun read, the abdicated Spanish king Juan Carlos secretly fled to Saudi Arabia, because he is investigated for money laundering/tax evasion back in Spain: https://www.dw.com/en/spanish-former-king-juan-carlos-i-pays-thousands-in-tax-debt/a-55889207 https://www.dw.com/en/spanish-former-king-juan-carlos-i-pays...
- miga 6y ago
  In constitutional monarchy, the king is the institution. His personal location may be irrelevant to the case.
- mcv 6y ago
  The Thai king lives in Germany? Why? Anyone can freely criticise him there.
  - usrusr 6y ago
    He might actually be doing his subjects a favor, if he lived that life closer to their eyes chances are that far more would feel an urge to criticize him despite the prison threat. (obviously, the good thing to do would end both, stop the permanent vacation and stop the prison threats)
  - mzs 6y ago
hoka-one-one 6y ago
It's so strange that New York Times is the only news site that forces a paywall and is acceptable to be posted on HN.
- xenocratus 6y ago
  There's also plenty of Economist articles, Washington Post as well...
- freeflight 6y ago
  NYT paywall is usually as soft as they come: Just opening the article in an incognito browser instance will usually bypass it.
beervirus 6y ago
This should be required reading for anyone who wants to repeal or limit the First Amendment in the US.
newbie578 6y ago
Imagine living in a country where it is a crime to criticize a person, better yet you should treat that person as a deity, when half the world is making fun of him. (There are articles of the current Thai king walking around half-naked in Germany...)
- PopeDotNinja 6y ago
  RealLifeLore made an entire video about it, including mentioning that making the video meant he could get busted if he visited Thailand. https://youtu.be/9coptltk27s https://youtu.be/9coptltk27s
  - burnthrow 6y ago
    I see a VPN ad.
    - bitcharmer 6y ago
      The ad finishes after 8 seconds.
      - burnthrow 6y ago
        Followed by a person narrating the news with flashy graphics. I can't stand this sort of garbage, there's nothing new at all, it's just to sell an ad.
  - al3xandre 6y ago
    YouTube is blocking this video if you are in Thailand....
- eznzt 6y ago
  It could be worse. There are Western countries with blasphemy laws.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Hitton 6y ago
>The former civil servant, Anchan Preelert, was sentenced to 87 years, but her prison term was cut in half because she agreed to plead guilty. I looked her up, she is 65 now. I don't know why she even bothered pleading guilty.
- miga 6y ago
  Fundamentals of judicial process are constructed so at to evoke respect of the indicted. While mathematical analyses tend to treat lawsuit as a pure game, most people would disagree on the moral grounds.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Many legal systems have a concept of early release/parole, especially with good behavior or humanitarian reasons; a reduction in sentence may bring this substantially forwards as well. (I can't speak for how Thailand specifically handles this, though.)
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  The main way people get out of these cases is to appeal to the king for clemency. Pleading guilty is the first step on that path once it becomes clear you'll get a defacto life sentence otherwise.
miga 6y ago
Laws protecting against insulting of government institutions exist in most countries of the world, but nowhere I heard about 43-year sentence. This conviction carries penalty that is over twice as long as maximum mandatory imprisonment for high felony in European countries. It shows the difference between law system based on terror of penalty, and law system that attempts to resocialize offenders (see over 1000-year total conviction here: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53003685 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53003685). Another unfortunate consequence is that Thai prisons are overcrowded and likely to infringe on human rights of detainees: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/14/joint-letter-thailand-department-corrections-director-general-pol-col-naras https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/14/joint-letter-thailand-de...
- ROARosen 6y ago
  Theres a guy in the US sentenced to 845 years for a white collar crime [1] [1] https://medium.com/lighterside/sentenced-to-845-years-the-thief-that-never-stole-anything-9618d5356ae2 https://medium.com/lighterside/sentenced-to-845-years-the-th...
  - amelius 6y ago
    Probably because his crime was, rather arbitrarily, divided into sub-crimes, and the sentences for these were summed.
    - FeepingCreature 6y ago
      Probably. But to mangle a quote: nice reason, still injustice.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - ROARosen 6y ago
      I'm not that familiar with the case. Here is the first result from google however, comparing his sentence with other notorious cases[1] [1]https://www.freedomforsholam.com/ https://www.freedomforsholam.com/
LeoNatan25 6y ago
Someone controversial once called some country a “shithole” and was mocked as racist. Well, after reading this, I can safely say this falls under the same “shithole country” category. Call me racist, I don’t really care.
- Bootvis 6y ago
  What did you achieve with this comment?
  - InitialLastName 6y ago
    They signalled to all of us the virtue of "I don't mind if you ignore me".
  - a_new_start1 6y ago
    I don't understand the moderation policy of HN. It seems that being a racist is ok, you'll get downvotes but the moderators leave you alone, but telling someone to f off gets you banned. What a weird forum this is. Imagine valuing courtesy over morality. (ps this isn't directed at you, I just couldn't reply to the person you replied to)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
atomashpolskiy 6y ago
It's incomprehensible how anyone would not shudder from anger seeing such injustice or how anyone would be clueless enough to argue that centralized, uncontrolled power of any kind has the right to exist in our time. We should all be working hard on dismantling these barbarian relics of the past as soon as possible, even if only to let their innocent victims to stand in the shambles and breathe the sweet air of freedom once again in their lives.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  The same applies to blasphemy laws IMHO.
  - ars 6y ago
    That need a bit of nuance IMO. Blasphemy in general doesn't need protecting. But blasphemy targeting a specific person or institution is effectively hate speech, and there are good reasons to ban it.
    - iguy 6y ago
      Doesn't blasphemy by definition target a non-existent person?
      - jacobr1 6y ago
        You can craft the implication with clever rhetoric. You can imply that holding the lambasted beliefs would only be done by someone mentally-ill or mislead, maybe even the ideas are so ridiculous that it is likely those purporting to hold such beliefs are disingenuous and have more sinister motives.
        myWindoonn 6y ago
        Yes, but that decomposes into blasphemy (against a deity) and defamation (against a person). For example, Jehovah probably doesn't exist. That's blasphemy, but it says nothing about those who believe in Jehovah. It's optional to include defamatory swipes at believers. For comparison, recall that Santa Claus also probably doesn't exist, and examine your emotions to see how you feel about the contrast between Santa Claus and Jehovah.
stunt 6y ago
It is worth noting that Facebook blocked some groups critical of Thai monarchy just last year.
- cute_boi 6y ago
  True These American Company are like "We support BLM" but when it comes to Thailand, Hong Kong etc they are double standards and only use these things for PR stunts because they don't want government to block them. It seems we are living in century where lies and money prevails over ethics.
  - TT3351 6y ago
    What gave you the impression that was unique to this century?
pmoriarty 6y ago
There must be some Thai readers on HN.. even ones who support these lèse-majesté laws. I'm curious, for Thai supporters, what is the justification for them?
- vbtemp 6y ago
  You will not find Thai people who support it, except cronies who benefit from the royal patronage network. The lese majeste laws are simply the work of an autocratic leader and institution that positions itself above the law. Any ordinary Thai who might have been okay with these laws[1] during the reign of the last king (who did genuinely serve as a kind of emotional anchor for Thais, despite the self-enrichment of his family) certainly sees them for what they are: The frantic efforts of a demented, bizarre, spoiled boy-child to deflect criticism and cement power. [1] Also remember, during the time of the last king, the laws were not really enforced. We all remember stories of black-out drunk Aussies pissing on a portrait of the king by a busy road getting arrested for it, but beyond those theatrical and scandalous episodes, the laws did not really affect many people until the new king took over.
  - nont 6y ago
    You actually do. They're mostly old generations
- wsc981 6y ago
  I live in Thailand and I know many Thai people don't love the current king. But from what I've seen the father of the current king was loved by most -if not all- Thais and I feel most Thais supported the laws in case of the previous king. But I believe it's very important that in Thai schools there are practices, even starting at kindergarten, to teach children to kneel or bow in front of the picture of the king daily. From what I understand children also sing the Thai national anthem at the start of the school day. Every day at 2 moments (09:00 and 17:00) many people stop what they're doing and stand in attention for a second while the national anthem plays on TV, radio in cinemas, etc... So you might understand that reference for the king is a big part of the education system here. Also, most Thais just don't have the money to travel abroad. And likely also don't see much of other countries on television. News channels on TV might spend 95% of the news on happenings inside the country (e.g. visits of royal family to villages, etc...). As such, many Thais might not be aware that some countries operate very different from the Thai system.
sixQuarks 6y ago
When I visited Thailand many years ago, I secretly gave the middle finger to the King's photo. I'm basically a fugitive on the run now.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
The way Thai's feel about honor and defamation is a lot more complex and causes friction when the (existing Western) system tries to apply legal rules of how conflict is resolved (and punishment is applied) in an environment where the old values of honor are still valid. when I still lived in the South of Thailand early 90ies we took people diving from Koh Samui, Koh Phan-gan, Koh Tao. The relationship between Thai's and the law is a strange one. It's almost like there are 2 systems. One for Thais one for "Farang". A Thai would not dare to speak ill of the monarchs. They leave the room if a "farang" has had one too many and says something critical (they're peace loving but their love of peace might end there). This applies to both the very rich and the very poor. We hired the captain from another region of the South to transport our divers. He was with the company since the day these islands were still 100% jungle and the place belonged to local fishermen. The reason why he left the region was because he had an argument and killed his neighbor. The deal was that he would not get killed only if he left the region and settled without ever returning to his family - this is considered not just shameful but seen as a huge disadvantage to make a living. They settled it without police, lawyer, bailiff, or judge, all among themselves. Our other captain (in charge of the boat that left Koh Phangan) was also the right hand man of the most powerful person on the island. That guy was like a major, or village elder because he owned what was then the only "super market" on the island, and lot of the land. Our captain and "right hand man" to this guy was a devout monk (every year for several months left his wife to sweep the floor in silence in the monastery). He was a family man, highly respected within the community, and it was no secret among Thais that he was also heavily armed and had a body count of 12 people in his short life (late 20ies). While murder is obviously illegal by law in Thailand, it is still used as a way by locals to settle disputes within rural areas of the South. The illegality isn't even considered here since in this case they see it as their moral duty which still trumps whatever some judge/lawyer's definition of justice is who has never before left Krung Thep. Long story short it's quite complex to transform what is still in ways a tribal society into what we call "law-abiding" citizen. Especially when the law contradicts the values of society. And even more so when the existing police force is just a show for the tourists and to the urban population.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  Thank you for this comment. It’s a breath of insight in a sea of predictable (and perhaps justified) outrage.
b0rsuk 6y ago
In Poland, we still have a blasphemy law. A newspaper along the lines of Charlie Hebdo had its owner dragged over courts for over 8 YEARS. The offense was illustrating an article about emptying churches with a surprised Jesus in a road sign. The newspaper routinely posts much more offensive content: cartoon dicks, cartoon sex, caricatures of pope, Jews, politicians (some dick-headed or engaged in homosexual sex), national flags in dog shit... But it was ostensibly a surprised Jesus that crossed the line. Since the current government entrenched itself, police is investigating things like suspicious duck-shaped snowmen next to statues (related to last name Kaczyński). The party leader that had 80 police squad cars guarding his villa. One of worst parts of thin skinned politicians is fabricating excuses to harass people they don't like.
- jariel 6y ago
  There are literally words you can say in so called 'Western Liberal' countries that can get you arrested or charged with hate speech. Those are our version of 'Blasphemy' laws. It's basically very disrespectful what Charlie Hebdo does, but shouldn't be illegal, and I guess, there should be 'someone somewhere' who is pushing the boundaries. Similarly, there are a lot of very rude things you can say to people, but none of it should be illegal, and frankly I don't care if there's a website somewhere that people say nasty things. So long as none of it gets out of hand. While the top commenters bit about Thai, local law and 'face saving' is fine, it's also obviously unjust. Justice takes many forms but there is some degree of universality to it.
  - echelon 6y ago
    > Those are our version of 'Blasphemy' laws. There's a difference in a racial epithet, which is aimed at a person in hostility, and a religious mockery, which is aimed at something people believe in - not people directly. Attacking a person vs attacking something someone believes in. Saying "Christians are stupid" is different than saying "Christ is stupid". We should all be able to tolerate having our ideals and beliefs criticized and mocked. But we should stand up for anyone of a race or group being attacked or marginalized. Black, white, gay, straight, religious, atheist, educated or not, whatever. A belief doesn't have feelings and doesn't feel pain. People do. > can get you arrested or charged with hate speech. Maybe in some democracies, but in America we allow it. Free speech is one of the core foundations of our democracy. If you want to put your foot in your mouth and say something stupid or hateful, be my guest. I'll even defend your right to do it. But it doesn't free you from being judged by your peers.
apexalpha 6y ago
Imagine living in a country where this is your king: https://www.dw.com/en/thailands-king-living-in-luxury-quarantine-while-his-country-suffers/a-53303644 https://www.dw.com/en/thailands-king-living-in-luxury-quaran... Siphoning off your tax money AND you're not allowed to say anything about it. Ridiculous.
- cute_boi 6y ago
  And saying something against the king may end up to jail for 14 years. Ridiculous. And even companies like facebook are helping them to identify the person who spoke against them.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Well, companies have to abide by the rules of the country they operate in, hopefully we can both agree this is a good thing? I can then say that I wish FB didn't chose to be present in Thailand at all, but since they are there, they should comply with the laws.
    - pieter_mj 6y ago
      offtopic, absolutely! But Facebook/Whatsapp don't abide to the European GDPR.
      - gambiting 6y ago
        They don't? In what way? At least through a very quick google search it seems like they do? [0] https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/17/facebook-gdpr-changes/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/17/facebook-gdpr-changes/
        pieter_mj 6y ago
        no they don't : European citizens have not sufficiently been informed of pii-data sharing between Whatsapp/facebook : https://www.politico.eu/article/whatsapp-privacy-fine-data-protection-europe-50-million/ https://www.politico.eu/article/whatsapp-privacy-fine-data-p...
adamlangsner 6y ago
When I was in Thailand a few years ago, I went to see a movie. Before the movie there was a montage about the king and everyone had to stand up out of respect. It showed pictures of the king throughout his life. Then I read up on the king and found out he's real bad news. He's basically an overgrown spoiled rich kid who doesn't do much other than throws birthdays for his dog.
- kilroy123 6y ago
  That's "Air Chief Marshal" Fufu, show some respect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fufu_(dog) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fufu_(dog)
NiceWayToDoIT 6y ago
When I went first time in Bangkok I got few tips from born Thai person, among them, I was warned among other things to avoid talking about politics, and to never say and do anything that would insult royalty. But one tip I remember the most was: "If you drop your money to the ground, and it starts flying away, never try stepping on it with the foot, as you may end up in the brick or angry mob may lynch you", apparently each note has picture of the king so stepping on it has equal effect as insulting royalty. :/
u678u 6y ago
I know a lot of Americans don't like Monarchies, I don't love entitled rich families either but the alternative is really having a second parliament, and I've learned having a parliament + Monarch works a lot more smoothly than President + 2 houses. eg Western Monarchies: Canada, UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Spain, Australia, Norway
- umvi 6y ago
  The difference is a bad president is only locked in for 4 years, a bad monarch is locked in for life because presumably their "blood" entitles them. Also, the entire concept of "divine bloodlines" flies in the face of equality of humans.
- chmod600 6y ago
  Interesting point. Monarchies are obviously not great, but it's good to remember that they aren't evil or something, and that there can still be a balance of power. I've been thinking that, in a liberal democracy, there's not much of a national identity. It's like a football club where anyone can drop in, and vote to play chess instead. I generally think that's fine, except that it seems like having no identity at all is a vacuum, and gets filled by something. That could easily end up being the opposite of liberal democracy, so lack of identity can be self-defeating.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  The US president has much more in common with a 17th to 19th century European monarch than the current European constitutional monarchs do. And have you noticed how many streets, businesses, and housing estates, educational institutions in the US have some sort of monarchical name? For instance Regency Parkway Cary, Regent and King Universities.
- wrboyce 6y ago
  You really can’t count the UK as a functional monarchy, the Queen is largely ceremonial.
  - u678u 6y ago
secondcoming 6y ago
The US can expect similar headlines for critising Critical Race Theory.
fatsdomino001 6y ago
America in 20 years if trends don’t change
trhway 6y ago
it is medieval of course. Even Russia can't probably beat it. Though when it comes to absurdity Russia is still a contender i think - for example last year Russia gave 13 and 12 years prison terms to newlywed bride and groom for disclosing "state secret" - a friend of the groom got drunk and was telling everybody who he is, giving out contact info, etc. The friend is an FSB officer and that is usually not a secret by itself. Well, the unsuspecting couple posted the wedding photos and video on Internet ... And Russian opposition leader Navalny has been just arrested right upon arrival back to Russia, for failure to check in with parole officers ... while he was treated for the poisoning in Germany. Because of that failure to check-in his parole may be revoked, and he will get to really serve the time.
trasz 6y ago
Well, fuck King Maha Shitgibbon Vajiralongkorn, I suppose.
enriquto 6y ago
This is much worse than Spain, where rappers Pablo Hasel and Valtònyc are facing only 4 years for singing that the king is a thief. Valtònyc managed to escape his home island of Majorca (dozens of fans bought many plane tickets to Brussels in his name, and he took just one). Unfortunately, Hasel is facing prison and has said he is not willing to go into exile as Valtònyc.
- mleonhard 6y ago
  I would expect EU free-speech laws to supersede such laws in Spain. Can these two appeal their case to the EU courts?
  - enriquto 6y ago
    The "EU laws" have no teeth and are only effective when EU states want to act against each other. When they concern internal affairs of a single state they are in practice meaningless. For instance, Spain is routinely condemned by the European Court of Human Rights (last time, this very week!) because it consistently fails to investigate allegations of torture by basque prisoners. The Spanish state doesn't even bat an eye about that, and the judge who has been in charge of blocking most torture investigations is currently the Spanish minister of justice! There's also an elected EU member of parliament that is currently in a Spanish prison on bogus charges, and he could not join his seat even when the EU law gave him parliamentary immunity. Likewise, three more Catalan MEPs are living in Belgium because they would be jailed (and probably tortured) if they returned to Spain.

383 points by mzs 6y ago

tamaharbor 6y ago

Coming to America soon (for Trump supporters at least).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kemiller2002 6y ago
Hopefully they can criticize the government all they want still. It's that storm the Capitol building looking to overthrow the government that is going to earn them a timeout.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  Still a question remains that why the military went there instead of just the police? Generally the military is trained in killing people and the police in deescalation and keeping order inside the country. I’m still very optimistic for the US. I’m not a Joe Biden fan, but the people who he selected so far look knowledgable, which is a big improvement over many other countries.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    Because there were people there hoping to kill political leaders and the police did not have control of the situation.
    - Amezarak 6y ago
      The DoJ is now walking back those claims. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/15/qanon-shaman-trump-kill-pardon/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/15/qanon-shama... > On Friday, however, Assistant U.S. Attorney Todd Allison walked back the claim of an assassination plot, saying that while it “may very well be appropriate at a trial,” raising it at this stage could “mislead the court.” [...] > We don’t have any direct evidence of kill/capture teams,” Sherwin said at a Friday news briefing. NB: It never ceases to surprise me that people take the public statements of the FBI/DoJ with its long history of overzealous and often illegal overreaches very uncritically. We're talking about an organization (the FBI) that was controlled by one of the most corrupt men in US political history for nearly half of its existence - J Edgar Hoover. Nothing much has changed. It doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you are, they are not your friend - they both tried to blackmail MLK into killing himself and sent snipers to murder a hard-right woman holding a baby at Ruby Ridge.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    The military seem to be, frankly, much better trained than the police. The US military has lots of recent experience in managing situations far more dangerous involving civilians in Afghanistan and The middle East. In contrast the US police are infamously shoot-first questions-later. Biden'd day1 plan has been leaked, it's all good to my eye, although he has a gargantuan task dealing with COVID and rebuilding trust in the government.
  - miga 6y ago
    There was military coup in 2014. In 2016, junta leader gave officers of the army were given police powers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Police#Army_deputized_as_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Police#Army_deputiz...
  - Retric 6y ago
    First police failed to control the situation. But, to make a long story short Republican governor Larry Hogan sent them in. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gov-hogan-leaders-of-congress-pleaded-with-maryland-to-send-aid-to-the-capitol/ar-BB1cyYSE https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gov-hogan-leaders-of... As to why, this goes back to the constitution. Article I, Section 8, Clause 15, and Article I, Section 10, Clause 3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard
- chmod600 6y ago
  So the insurrectionists get a time out, or all 70M people who voted for him?
  - grey-area 6y ago
    Hopefully Trump (called for insurrection and dictatorship), and the people who constructed a gallows outside and stormed and sacked the capitol (actual insurrection) get a timeout. This should not be controversial if you like living in a democracy.
  - DFHippie 6y ago
    I don't know why you would read kemiller2002's comment as implying the actions of the insurrectionists would earn a "timeout" for everyone who voted for Trump. The insurrectionists were eager to be aggrieved about something. I guess they got their wish, those of them going into timeout. We don't all have to adopt this pose.
    - chmod600 6y ago
      Because the original post said "Trump supporters", and the reply said they attacked the capitol and should get a time out.
      - DFHippie 6y ago
        I think that is an uncharitable reading of the comment you were responding to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
        chmod600 6y ago
        I was asking for clarification of an ambiguity. It's an important ambiguity to clarify, because guilt-by-association moves quickly through society.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    Are you saying voting for the wrong person should be illegal and grounds for prosecution? I mean for one, you wouldn't / shouldn't be able to trace who voted for who; it's called anonymity in voting and it's one of the pillars of democracy. And which party you side with is a massive part of the hostility between citizens of the US right now. It's not just a vote for many, it's a personality, a tribe, something to get entrenched in and lash out to the Other Side.
- frockington1 6y ago
  The part that worries me is AOCs Truth & Reconciliation Commission. Sounds way to similar to re-education camps and ministry of truths elsewhere
535188B17C93743 6y ago
I pity you if you can't understand the difference. Really.
- tamaharbor 6y ago
  Democrats want to destroy Trump and every one of his supporters. And that is the truth. Ps. He did not call for insurrection. The blm and antifa violence and rioting all summer was far worse than what happened at the Capitol. What kind of America do you want? Go ahead and downvote/ban me here for the truth. Democrats are the true Nazis/Fascists. Think about it. Get your head out of cnn’s ass.
  - InitialLastName 6y ago
    Somehow, whenever someone says "think about it" to make their case instead of presenting their own reason and evidence, it makes it more difficult to accept their argument as valid. To be so very clear: The downvote was for your last sentence, not the sentiment.

spaetzleesser 6y ago

Pretty sad to see this insanity happening in such a beautiful country. I guess Thailand is due for a revolution. And it seems the West doesn’t care that much about human rights abuses as long as the government only oppresses its own people while playing nice with the West otherwise (like Saudi Arabia).

miga 6y ago
Many civilized societies hand prison penalties that are considered insane and counterproductive by sentencing experts. US inmate composition analyses are great example: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537114001146 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092753711... https://jlc.org/news/what-foster-care-prison-pipeline https://jlc.org/news/what-foster-care-prison-pipeline Regretfully it is hard to sue the foster-child-care system as sharing guilt for the civil damages done to these children:
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  As much as US is a good example, it's also a country with by far the worst incarceration rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
  - iguy 6y ago
    Interesting that Thailand is in 5th place on that list, 80% the US rate. And about 65% the murder rate (placing them pretty close together on the world scale): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... Also interesting that including high estimates for China's "re-education" camps would still only move them up to about 30th place, for incarceration, somewhere around Russia/Turkey/Nigeria. Although that's one area being diluted by the whole.
yokto 6y ago
Due to its unique geographical situation, Thailand already had more revolutions than any other country. It has the highest largest-to-second-largest-city ratio among comparably sized countries, making it ideal for coups. See more here: https://youtu.be/S9SMRuvnl2g https://youtu.be/S9SMRuvnl2g

dahdum 6y ago

It's a shame they didn't even mention Germany in the article, considering that's where the king actually lives.

coldcode 6y ago
What kind of King lives in another country? A terrible one (good thing I don't live in Thailand).
- billpg 6y ago
  Canada's?
- ciceryadam 6y ago
  Also a fun read, the abdicated Spanish king Juan Carlos secretly fled to Saudi Arabia, because he is investigated for money laundering/tax evasion back in Spain: https://www.dw.com/en/spanish-former-king-juan-carlos-i-pays-thousands-in-tax-debt/a-55889207 https://www.dw.com/en/spanish-former-king-juan-carlos-i-pays...
miga 6y ago
In constitutional monarchy, the king is the institution. His personal location may be irrelevant to the case.
mcv 6y ago
The Thai king lives in Germany? Why? Anyone can freely criticise him there.
- usrusr 6y ago
  He might actually be doing his subjects a favor, if he lived that life closer to their eyes chances are that far more would feel an urge to criticize him despite the prison threat. (obviously, the good thing to do would end both, stop the permanent vacation and stop the prison threats)
- mzs 6y ago

hoka-one-one 6y ago

It's so strange that New York Times is the only news site that forces a paywall and is acceptable to be posted on HN.

xenocratus 6y ago
There's also plenty of Economist articles, Washington Post as well...
freeflight 6y ago
NYT paywall is usually as soft as they come: Just opening the article in an incognito browser instance will usually bypass it.

beervirus 6y ago

This should be required reading for anyone who wants to repeal or limit the First Amendment in the US.

newbie578 6y ago

Imagine living in a country where it is a crime to criticize a person, better yet you should treat that person as a deity, when half the world is making fun of him. (There are articles of the current Thai king walking around half-naked in Germany...)

PopeDotNinja 6y ago
RealLifeLore made an entire video about it, including mentioning that making the video meant he could get busted if he visited Thailand. https://youtu.be/9coptltk27s https://youtu.be/9coptltk27s
- burnthrow 6y ago
  I see a VPN ad.
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    The ad finishes after 8 seconds.
    - burnthrow 6y ago
      Followed by a person narrating the news with flashy graphics. I can't stand this sort of garbage, there's nothing new at all, it's just to sell an ad.
- al3xandre 6y ago
  YouTube is blocking this video if you are in Thailand....
eznzt 6y ago
It could be worse. There are Western countries with blasphemy laws.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago

Hitton 6y ago

>The former civil servant, Anchan Preelert, was sentenced to 87 years, but her prison term was cut in half because she agreed to plead guilty. I looked her up, she is 65 now. I don't know why she even bothered pleading guilty.

miga 6y ago
Fundamentals of judicial process are constructed so at to evoke respect of the indicted. While mathematical analyses tend to treat lawsuit as a pure game, most people would disagree on the moral grounds.
ceejayoz 6y ago
Many legal systems have a concept of early release/parole, especially with good behavior or humanitarian reasons; a reduction in sentence may bring this substantially forwards as well. (I can't speak for how Thailand specifically handles this, though.)
LatteLazy 6y ago
The main way people get out of these cases is to appeal to the king for clemency. Pleading guilty is the first step on that path once it becomes clear you'll get a defacto life sentence otherwise.

miga 6y ago

Laws protecting against insulting of government institutions exist in most countries of the world, but nowhere I heard about 43-year sentence. This conviction carries penalty that is over twice as long as maximum mandatory imprisonment for high felony in European countries. It shows the difference between law system based on terror of penalty, and law system that attempts to resocialize offenders (see over 1000-year total conviction here: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53003685 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53003685). Another unfortunate consequence is that Thai prisons are overcrowded and likely to infringe on human rights of detainees: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/14/joint-letter-thailand-department-corrections-director-general-pol-col-naras https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/14/joint-letter-thailand-de...

ROARosen 6y ago
Theres a guy in the US sentenced to 845 years for a white collar crime [1] [1] https://medium.com/lighterside/sentenced-to-845-years-the-thief-that-never-stole-anything-9618d5356ae2 https://medium.com/lighterside/sentenced-to-845-years-the-th...
- amelius 6y ago
  Probably because his crime was, rather arbitrarily, divided into sub-crimes, and the sentences for these were summed.
  - FeepingCreature 6y ago
    Probably. But to mangle a quote: nice reason, still injustice.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - ROARosen 6y ago
    I'm not that familiar with the case. Here is the first result from google however, comparing his sentence with other notorious cases[1] [1]https://www.freedomforsholam.com/ https://www.freedomforsholam.com/

LeoNatan25 6y ago

Someone controversial once called some country a “shithole” and was mocked as racist. Well, after reading this, I can safely say this falls under the same “shithole country” category. Call me racist, I don’t really care.

Bootvis 6y ago
What did you achieve with this comment?
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  They signalled to all of us the virtue of "I don't mind if you ignore me".
- a_new_start1 6y ago
  I don't understand the moderation policy of HN. It seems that being a racist is ok, you'll get downvotes but the moderators leave you alone, but telling someone to f off gets you banned. What a weird forum this is. Imagine valuing courtesy over morality. (ps this isn't directed at you, I just couldn't reply to the person you replied to)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

atomashpolskiy 6y ago

It's incomprehensible how anyone would not shudder from anger seeing such injustice or how anyone would be clueless enough to argue that centralized, uncontrolled power of any kind has the right to exist in our time. We should all be working hard on dismantling these barbarian relics of the past as soon as possible, even if only to let their innocent victims to stand in the shambles and breathe the sweet air of freedom once again in their lives.

bitcharmer 6y ago
The same applies to blasphemy laws IMHO.
- ars 6y ago
  That need a bit of nuance IMO. Blasphemy in general doesn't need protecting. But blasphemy targeting a specific person or institution is effectively hate speech, and there are good reasons to ban it.
  - iguy 6y ago
    Doesn't blasphemy by definition target a non-existent person?
    - jacobr1 6y ago
      You can craft the implication with clever rhetoric. You can imply that holding the lambasted beliefs would only be done by someone mentally-ill or mislead, maybe even the ideas are so ridiculous that it is likely those purporting to hold such beliefs are disingenuous and have more sinister motives.
      - myWindoonn 6y ago
        Yes, but that decomposes into blasphemy (against a deity) and defamation (against a person). For example, Jehovah probably doesn't exist. That's blasphemy, but it says nothing about those who believe in Jehovah. It's optional to include defamatory swipes at believers. For comparison, recall that Santa Claus also probably doesn't exist, and examine your emotions to see how you feel about the contrast between Santa Claus and Jehovah.

stunt 6y ago

It is worth noting that Facebook blocked some groups critical of Thai monarchy just last year.

cute_boi 6y ago
True These American Company are like "We support BLM" but when it comes to Thailand, Hong Kong etc they are double standards and only use these things for PR stunts because they don't want government to block them. It seems we are living in century where lies and money prevails over ethics.
- TT3351 6y ago
  What gave you the impression that was unique to this century?

pmoriarty 6y ago

There must be some Thai readers on HN.. even ones who support these lèse-majesté laws. I'm curious, for Thai supporters, what is the justification for them?

vbtemp 6y ago
You will not find Thai people who support it, except cronies who benefit from the royal patronage network. The lese majeste laws are simply the work of an autocratic leader and institution that positions itself above the law. Any ordinary Thai who might have been okay with these laws[1] during the reign of the last king (who did genuinely serve as a kind of emotional anchor for Thais, despite the self-enrichment of his family) certainly sees them for what they are: The frantic efforts of a demented, bizarre, spoiled boy-child to deflect criticism and cement power. [1] Also remember, during the time of the last king, the laws were not really enforced. We all remember stories of black-out drunk Aussies pissing on a portrait of the king by a busy road getting arrested for it, but beyond those theatrical and scandalous episodes, the laws did not really affect many people until the new king took over.
- nont 6y ago
  You actually do. They're mostly old generations
wsc981 6y ago
I live in Thailand and I know many Thai people don't love the current king. But from what I've seen the father of the current king was loved by most -if not all- Thais and I feel most Thais supported the laws in case of the previous king. But I believe it's very important that in Thai schools there are practices, even starting at kindergarten, to teach children to kneel or bow in front of the picture of the king daily. From what I understand children also sing the Thai national anthem at the start of the school day. Every day at 2 moments (09:00 and 17:00) many people stop what they're doing and stand in attention for a second while the national anthem plays on TV, radio in cinemas, etc... So you might understand that reference for the king is a big part of the education system here. Also, most Thais just don't have the money to travel abroad. And likely also don't see much of other countries on television. News channels on TV might spend 95% of the news on happenings inside the country (e.g. visits of royal family to villages, etc...). As such, many Thais might not be aware that some countries operate very different from the Thai system.

sixQuarks 6y ago

When I visited Thailand many years ago, I secretly gave the middle finger to the King's photo. I'm basically a fugitive on the run now.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

The way Thai's feel about honor and defamation is a lot more complex and causes friction when the (existing Western) system tries to apply legal rules of how conflict is resolved (and punishment is applied) in an environment where the old values of honor are still valid. when I still lived in the South of Thailand early 90ies we took people diving from Koh Samui, Koh Phan-gan, Koh Tao. The relationship between Thai's and the law is a strange one. It's almost like there are 2 systems. One for Thais one for "Farang". A Thai would not dare to speak ill of the monarchs. They leave the room if a "farang" has had one too many and says something critical (they're peace loving but their love of peace might end there). This applies to both the very rich and the very poor. We hired the captain from another region of the South to transport our divers. He was with the company since the day these islands were still 100% jungle and the place belonged to local fishermen. The reason why he left the region was because he had an argument and killed his neighbor. The deal was that he would not get killed only if he left the region and settled without ever returning to his family - this is considered not just shameful but seen as a huge disadvantage to make a living. They settled it without police, lawyer, bailiff, or judge, all among themselves. Our other captain (in charge of the boat that left Koh Phangan) was also the right hand man of the most powerful person on the island. That guy was like a major, or village elder because he owned what was then the only "super market" on the island, and lot of the land. Our captain and "right hand man" to this guy was a devout monk (every year for several months left his wife to sweep the floor in silence in the monastery). He was a family man, highly respected within the community, and it was no secret among Thais that he was also heavily armed and had a body count of 12 people in his short life (late 20ies). While murder is obviously illegal by law in Thailand, it is still used as a way by locals to settle disputes within rural areas of the South. The illegality isn't even considered here since in this case they see it as their moral duty which still trumps whatever some judge/lawyer's definition of justice is who has never before left Krung Thep. Long story short it's quite complex to transform what is still in ways a tribal society into what we call "law-abiding" citizen. Especially when the law contradicts the values of society. And even more so when the existing police force is just a show for the tourists and to the urban population.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
Thank you for this comment. It’s a breath of insight in a sea of predictable (and perhaps justified) outrage.

b0rsuk 6y ago

In Poland, we still have a blasphemy law. A newspaper along the lines of Charlie Hebdo had its owner dragged over courts for over 8 YEARS. The offense was illustrating an article about emptying churches with a surprised Jesus in a road sign. The newspaper routinely posts much more offensive content: cartoon dicks, cartoon sex, caricatures of pope, Jews, politicians (some dick-headed or engaged in homosexual sex), national flags in dog shit... But it was ostensibly a surprised Jesus that crossed the line. Since the current government entrenched itself, police is investigating things like suspicious duck-shaped snowmen next to statues (related to last name Kaczyński). The party leader that had 80 police squad cars guarding his villa. One of worst parts of thin skinned politicians is fabricating excuses to harass people they don't like.

jariel 6y ago
There are literally words you can say in so called 'Western Liberal' countries that can get you arrested or charged with hate speech. Those are our version of 'Blasphemy' laws. It's basically very disrespectful what Charlie Hebdo does, but shouldn't be illegal, and I guess, there should be 'someone somewhere' who is pushing the boundaries. Similarly, there are a lot of very rude things you can say to people, but none of it should be illegal, and frankly I don't care if there's a website somewhere that people say nasty things. So long as none of it gets out of hand. While the top commenters bit about Thai, local law and 'face saving' is fine, it's also obviously unjust. Justice takes many forms but there is some degree of universality to it.
- echelon 6y ago
  > Those are our version of 'Blasphemy' laws. There's a difference in a racial epithet, which is aimed at a person in hostility, and a religious mockery, which is aimed at something people believe in - not people directly. Attacking a person vs attacking something someone believes in. Saying "Christians are stupid" is different than saying "Christ is stupid". We should all be able to tolerate having our ideals and beliefs criticized and mocked. But we should stand up for anyone of a race or group being attacked or marginalized. Black, white, gay, straight, religious, atheist, educated or not, whatever. A belief doesn't have feelings and doesn't feel pain. People do. > can get you arrested or charged with hate speech. Maybe in some democracies, but in America we allow it. Free speech is one of the core foundations of our democracy. If you want to put your foot in your mouth and say something stupid or hateful, be my guest. I'll even defend your right to do it. But it doesn't free you from being judged by your peers.

apexalpha 6y ago

Imagine living in a country where this is your king: https://www.dw.com/en/thailands-king-living-in-luxury-quarantine-while-his-country-suffers/a-53303644 https://www.dw.com/en/thailands-king-living-in-luxury-quaran... Siphoning off your tax money AND you're not allowed to say anything about it. Ridiculous.

cute_boi 6y ago
And saying something against the king may end up to jail for 14 years. Ridiculous. And even companies like facebook are helping them to identify the person who spoke against them.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Well, companies have to abide by the rules of the country they operate in, hopefully we can both agree this is a good thing? I can then say that I wish FB didn't chose to be present in Thailand at all, but since they are there, they should comply with the laws.
  - pieter_mj 6y ago
    offtopic, absolutely! But Facebook/Whatsapp don't abide to the European GDPR.
    - gambiting 6y ago
      They don't? In what way? At least through a very quick google search it seems like they do? [0] https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/17/facebook-gdpr-changes/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/17/facebook-gdpr-changes/
      - pieter_mj 6y ago
        no they don't : European citizens have not sufficiently been informed of pii-data sharing between Whatsapp/facebook : https://www.politico.eu/article/whatsapp-privacy-fine-data-protection-europe-50-million/ https://www.politico.eu/article/whatsapp-privacy-fine-data-p...

adamlangsner 6y ago

When I was in Thailand a few years ago, I went to see a movie. Before the movie there was a montage about the king and everyone had to stand up out of respect. It showed pictures of the king throughout his life. Then I read up on the king and found out he's real bad news. He's basically an overgrown spoiled rich kid who doesn't do much other than throws birthdays for his dog.

kilroy123 6y ago
That's "Air Chief Marshal" Fufu, show some respect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fufu_(dog) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fufu_(dog)

NiceWayToDoIT 6y ago

When I went first time in Bangkok I got few tips from born Thai person, among them, I was warned among other things to avoid talking about politics, and to never say and do anything that would insult royalty. But one tip I remember the most was: "If you drop your money to the ground, and it starts flying away, never try stepping on it with the foot, as you may end up in the brick or angry mob may lynch you", apparently each note has picture of the king so stepping on it has equal effect as insulting royalty. :/

u678u 6y ago

I know a lot of Americans don't like Monarchies, I don't love entitled rich families either but the alternative is really having a second parliament, and I've learned having a parliament + Monarch works a lot more smoothly than President + 2 houses. eg Western Monarchies: Canada, UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Spain, Australia, Norway

umvi 6y ago
The difference is a bad president is only locked in for 4 years, a bad monarch is locked in for life because presumably their "blood" entitles them. Also, the entire concept of "divine bloodlines" flies in the face of equality of humans.
chmod600 6y ago
Interesting point. Monarchies are obviously not great, but it's good to remember that they aren't evil or something, and that there can still be a balance of power. I've been thinking that, in a liberal democracy, there's not much of a national identity. It's like a football club where anyone can drop in, and vote to play chess instead. I generally think that's fine, except that it seems like having no identity at all is a vacuum, and gets filled by something. That could easily end up being the opposite of liberal democracy, so lack of identity can be self-defeating.
kwhitefoot 6y ago
The US president has much more in common with a 17th to 19th century European monarch than the current European constitutional monarchs do. And have you noticed how many streets, businesses, and housing estates, educational institutions in the US have some sort of monarchical name? For instance Regency Parkway Cary, Regent and King Universities.
wrboyce 6y ago
You really can’t count the UK as a functional monarchy, the Queen is largely ceremonial.
- u678u 6y ago

secondcoming 6y ago

The US can expect similar headlines for critising Critical Race Theory.

fatsdomino001 6y ago

America in 20 years if trends don’t change

trhway 6y ago

it is medieval of course. Even Russia can't probably beat it. Though when it comes to absurdity Russia is still a contender i think - for example last year Russia gave 13 and 12 years prison terms to newlywed bride and groom for disclosing "state secret" - a friend of the groom got drunk and was telling everybody who he is, giving out contact info, etc. The friend is an FSB officer and that is usually not a secret by itself. Well, the unsuspecting couple posted the wedding photos and video on Internet ... And Russian opposition leader Navalny has been just arrested right upon arrival back to Russia, for failure to check in with parole officers ... while he was treated for the poisoning in Germany. Because of that failure to check-in his parole may be revoked, and he will get to really serve the time.

trasz 6y ago

Well, fuck King Maha Shitgibbon Vajiralongkorn, I suppose.

enriquto 6y ago

This is much worse than Spain, where rappers Pablo Hasel and Valtònyc are facing only 4 years for singing that the king is a thief. Valtònyc managed to escape his home island of Majorca (dozens of fans bought many plane tickets to Brussels in his name, and he took just one). Unfortunately, Hasel is facing prison and has said he is not willing to go into exile as Valtònyc.

mleonhard 6y ago
I would expect EU free-speech laws to supersede such laws in Spain. Can these two appeal their case to the EU courts?
- enriquto 6y ago
  The "EU laws" have no teeth and are only effective when EU states want to act against each other. When they concern internal affairs of a single state they are in practice meaningless. For instance, Spain is routinely condemned by the European Court of Human Rights (last time, this very week!) because it consistently fails to investigate allegations of torture by basque prisoners. The Spanish state doesn't even bat an eye about that, and the judge who has been in charge of blocking most torture investigations is currently the Spanish minister of justice! There's also an elected EU member of parliament that is currently in a Spanish prison on bogus charges, and he could not join his seat even when the EU law gave him parliamentary immunity. Likewise, three more Catalan MEPs are living in Belgium because they would be jailed (and probably tortured) if they returned to Spain.