7 ms·

Adopted a teenager out of foster care. None of the others she knew from foster care did well in life. All on drugs, homeless, many in prison, spent time ther

Adopted a teenager out of foster care. None of the others she knew from foster care did well in life. All on drugs, homeless, many in prison, spent time there. Many are having kids that will soon be take away by the state, for good reasons. Our own has done better, but was years of insane drama. Knowing that bio family was out there hurt her immensely. She finally had to spend time with them. Literally Pulling her drunk biological dad out of a ditch, to realize that they were dragging her down. She does aight these days. Foster kids can be helped, but you really need multiple strong families or support groups dedicated to the task. For a couple of decades, at least.

Geminidog 6y ago
>Foster kids can be helped, but you really need multiple strong families or support groups dedicated to the task. For a couple of decades, at least. It's sad but I don't think that this is sustainable.
- bigfudge 6y ago
  It would be cheaper than prison. We do so little to support foster families that I don't know how we know that it's not sustainable... we just haven't tried. It's a cliche but if we spent 10% of of what we spend on Nukes or drug enforcement on this it would be a game changer. This is a question of priorities.
  - creato 6y ago
    > It's a cliche but if we spent 10% of of what we spend on Nukes or drug enforcement on this it would be a game changer. I think people that say things like this overestimate how much we spend on things like this and underestimate social spending. About 50% of US government spending is health and social services. So even cutting everything else to zero is only a doubling of health and social services. A doubling isn't nothing, but a game changer? And not all (or even most) of that other 50% will be spending you feel is frivolous, so it would be much less than doubling.
    - TeaDrunk 6y ago
      Almost 60% of projected spending is not on all health and social services, but only 3 specific programs, 2 of which primarily benefit the elderly. It can still be true that if a program to support the success of foster children increased by 10% of the budget from somewhere else, the program would be significantly more successful in helping children.
    - corin_ 6y ago
      Yes of course doubling would be a game changer! Think of the huge amount of good stuff already covered in healthcare and social services, even a 10% increase in budget could do a massive amount of good.
      - treeman79 6y ago
        Prices would double. Some people can spend an unlimited amount of money and accomplish little.
      - imtringued 6y ago
        The central bank is doing far more than doubling with little to show for. The amount isn't important, only the effectiveness. An effective program can end up reducing spending and give better outcomes at the same time.
    - treeman79 6y ago
      She went into foster care, because bio parents just sat around getting stoned constantly. Often forgetting to pick up kids from school. I get that many techies are pro-drugs. But a lot of people waste away on them.
      - frenchy 6y ago
        For what it's worth, there's a difference between pro-drugs and pro-legalization. I personally think that legalization is our best hope for reducing drug use.
      - mlyle 6y ago
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Of course it is. Just not within the parameters of how we've defined family and parenthood. There's a reason societies used collective parenting for centuries and only recently with the push towards individualism that has stopped. There's still collective parenting in places of the world that don't have that same desire of individualism. We've built our society and economy around the idea of 2 parents and some children. This is an arbitrary decision we've made and it wasn't how we came to this point. A push for accepting multi-node families would help nudge us in the right direction. Just changing the tax law to support and provide the same benefits to a union of multiple parents would be extremely useful. We've codefied a single way of living. Maybe we should change that and allow for more dynamic family structures.
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    > collective parenting for centuries Could you provide more data here? The only information that I found was traditional families, where the grandparents and relatives take the responsibility for the education too. I lived some years in South American, and I was impressed how many middle class families have their Nanny taking care of their kids (bringing to the school, cooking, controlling home work, taking care while they were sick, etc).. could be that be seem as "collective parenting" too? > There's still collective parenting in places of the world that don't have that same desire of individualism. Would provide more data here? I'm interested to see how they are doing.
  - smartbit 6y ago
    I couldn't agree with you more including tax law as part of the problem. > There's a reason societies used collective parenting for centuries and only recently with the push towards individualism that has stopped. Do you have reference to literature or research confirming your statement?
  - dudul 6y ago
    > There's still collective parenting in places of the world that don't have that same desire of individualism. > societies used collective parenting for centuries I see these claims made regularly in discussions about kids, families, etc, but I never see a clear example. Which parts of the world have collective parenting? How do you even define that? During which periods did we have collective parenting? What forms did it take? I would be really interested in seeing real examples I can look into to understand better how they could potentially be used as inspiration.
- mistermann 6y ago
  Look on the bright side: it is speculative, and doesn't consider counterfactuals, etc. Luckily, fine folks like aaomidi walk among us. Not many of them, but some.
froh 6y ago
> aight allright (US english, colloquial) As I had to look it up
- nwsm 6y ago
  People do use "aight" as slang, but I think this way probably a typo.
- stuaxo 6y ago
  Thanks, this confused me, I assumed it was aught/zero and couldn't parse it.
- oehtXRwMkIs 6y ago
  Weird, that's the first time I've ever seen it spelled with 2 L's. But it does make more sense than one L.
  - froh 6y ago
    Uh oh, all right, alright, so I learned two things here today :-) Thanks! https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/all-right-or-alright-which-is-correct https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/all-right-or-a...
tooltower 6y ago
Sorry about the completely noob question, but in your mind, do you think it actually helps these kids to separate them from their bio families in the first place? What are the most common situations that require a kid to be placed in foster care?
- ip26 6y ago
  Separating from their families is never a great option. But sometimes it is the least-bad option. Enter, foster care.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Kids are only separated from their families when things are really bad.
- worik 6y ago
  The best thing to do, to help a child, is to help the family. But the family is often very unattractive. Adults can be such reprobates: Drug addicted, "lazy", wasteful.... So the state tends to remove the child and inject them into what they know is at best a failing system and at worst a fertile training ground for child abusers. Better to help the families, never mind that they will have lifestyles you disapprove of. It costs a lot of money. A huge amount. But it is cheaper in the long run to put aside the moral panic about the behaviour of the grown us....
  - sitkack 6y ago
    We should be helping all of society so that families have a low probability of getting into this state in the first place. I have seen communities with strong programs for kids, breakfast served at school, extended evening activities, free organized sports. All of this stuff helps shore up a problematic home life and gives points of contact for well functioning adults and kids to intersect with these kids lives. Can you imagine being a child in a shitty home life, all you had before the pandemic was your school for being around people who didn't hate or at best were indifferent to you. America needs new social structures.

Geminidog 6y ago

>Foster kids can be helped, but you really need multiple strong families or support groups dedicated to the task. For a couple of decades, at least. It's sad but I don't think that this is sustainable.

bigfudge 6y ago
It would be cheaper than prison. We do so little to support foster families that I don't know how we know that it's not sustainable... we just haven't tried. It's a cliche but if we spent 10% of of what we spend on Nukes or drug enforcement on this it would be a game changer. This is a question of priorities.
- creato 6y ago
  > It's a cliche but if we spent 10% of of what we spend on Nukes or drug enforcement on this it would be a game changer. I think people that say things like this overestimate how much we spend on things like this and underestimate social spending. About 50% of US government spending is health and social services. So even cutting everything else to zero is only a doubling of health and social services. A doubling isn't nothing, but a game changer? And not all (or even most) of that other 50% will be spending you feel is frivolous, so it would be much less than doubling.
  - TeaDrunk 6y ago
    Almost 60% of projected spending is not on all health and social services, but only 3 specific programs, 2 of which primarily benefit the elderly. It can still be true that if a program to support the success of foster children increased by 10% of the budget from somewhere else, the program would be significantly more successful in helping children.
  - corin_ 6y ago
    Yes of course doubling would be a game changer! Think of the huge amount of good stuff already covered in healthcare and social services, even a 10% increase in budget could do a massive amount of good.
    - treeman79 6y ago
      Prices would double. Some people can spend an unlimited amount of money and accomplish little.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      The central bank is doing far more than doubling with little to show for. The amount isn't important, only the effectiveness. An effective program can end up reducing spending and give better outcomes at the same time.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    She went into foster care, because bio parents just sat around getting stoned constantly. Often forgetting to pick up kids from school. I get that many techies are pro-drugs. But a lot of people waste away on them.
    - frenchy 6y ago
      For what it's worth, there's a difference between pro-drugs and pro-legalization. I personally think that legalization is our best hope for reducing drug use.
    - mlyle 6y ago
aaomidi 6y ago
Of course it is. Just not within the parameters of how we've defined family and parenthood. There's a reason societies used collective parenting for centuries and only recently with the push towards individualism that has stopped. There's still collective parenting in places of the world that don't have that same desire of individualism. We've built our society and economy around the idea of 2 parents and some children. This is an arbitrary decision we've made and it wasn't how we came to this point. A push for accepting multi-node families would help nudge us in the right direction. Just changing the tax law to support and provide the same benefits to a union of multiple parents would be extremely useful. We've codefied a single way of living. Maybe we should change that and allow for more dynamic family structures.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  > collective parenting for centuries Could you provide more data here? The only information that I found was traditional families, where the grandparents and relatives take the responsibility for the education too. I lived some years in South American, and I was impressed how many middle class families have their Nanny taking care of their kids (bringing to the school, cooking, controlling home work, taking care while they were sick, etc).. could be that be seem as "collective parenting" too? > There's still collective parenting in places of the world that don't have that same desire of individualism. Would provide more data here? I'm interested to see how they are doing.
- smartbit 6y ago
  I couldn't agree with you more including tax law as part of the problem. > There's a reason societies used collective parenting for centuries and only recently with the push towards individualism that has stopped. Do you have reference to literature or research confirming your statement?
- dudul 6y ago
  > There's still collective parenting in places of the world that don't have that same desire of individualism. > societies used collective parenting for centuries I see these claims made regularly in discussions about kids, families, etc, but I never see a clear example. Which parts of the world have collective parenting? How do you even define that? During which periods did we have collective parenting? What forms did it take? I would be really interested in seeing real examples I can look into to understand better how they could potentially be used as inspiration.
mistermann 6y ago
Look on the bright side: it is speculative, and doesn't consider counterfactuals, etc. Luckily, fine folks like aaomidi walk among us. Not many of them, but some.

froh 6y ago

> aight allright (US english, colloquial) As I had to look it up

nwsm 6y ago
People do use "aight" as slang, but I think this way probably a typo.
stuaxo 6y ago
Thanks, this confused me, I assumed it was aught/zero and couldn't parse it.
oehtXRwMkIs 6y ago
Weird, that's the first time I've ever seen it spelled with 2 L's. But it does make more sense than one L.
- froh 6y ago
  Uh oh, all right, alright, so I learned two things here today :-) Thanks! https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/all-right-or-alright-which-is-correct https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/all-right-or-a...

tooltower 6y ago

Sorry about the completely noob question, but in your mind, do you think it actually helps these kids to separate them from their bio families in the first place? What are the most common situations that require a kid to be placed in foster care?

ip26 6y ago
Separating from their families is never a great option. But sometimes it is the least-bad option. Enter, foster care.
bluGill 6y ago
Kids are only separated from their families when things are really bad.
worik 6y ago
The best thing to do, to help a child, is to help the family. But the family is often very unattractive. Adults can be such reprobates: Drug addicted, "lazy", wasteful.... So the state tends to remove the child and inject them into what they know is at best a failing system and at worst a fertile training ground for child abusers. Better to help the families, never mind that they will have lifestyles you disapprove of. It costs a lot of money. A huge amount. But it is cheaper in the long run to put aside the moral panic about the behaviour of the grown us....
- sitkack 6y ago
  We should be helping all of society so that families have a low probability of getting into this state in the first place. I have seen communities with strong programs for kids, breakfast served at school, extended evening activities, free organized sports. All of this stuff helps shore up a problematic home life and gives points of contact for well functioning adults and kids to intersect with these kids lives. Can you imagine being a child in a shitty home life, all you had before the pandemic was your school for being around people who didn't hate or at best were indifferent to you. America needs new social structures.