9 ms·

Man found 'living in airport for three months' over Covid fears

69 points by vinni2 6y ago

blackbrokkoli 6y ago
Airport security theatre apparently completely collapsed into a bizzaro world where wet streets cause rain and actors behave like they are on strong drugs. So, we are talking about the area you are in after a flight, yes? Remind me, BBC, why is that a "secure" area? In case people smuggle bombs/weapons on a flight, just do nothing on the flight and than harm people afterwards?! I get that you want the are to be a one-lane-road to the outside, so nobody boards a plane that way. But how is a random passenger who is supposed to be there a danger? Do passengers spoil, like idk, milk, and become dangerous after a certain date? Why and how would anyone detect a passenger overstaying in the post-flight area? Who cares? That is the world most dumb threat model? Why is this a felony? This is the most victimless "crime" I have ever seen. Did the private prison called with a need for more slave labour, or why is this guy in court and not therapy? "Based upon the need for airports to be absolutely secure so that people feel safe to travel [...]" - you mean the need to implement wide-net surveillance and a massive military under the veil of an imaginary terrorist threat? Also, why the fuck is the full name and age of this obviously unwell guy printed? So that I can imagine that he is brown based on the last name? This disgusting practice adds zero journalistic value and ensures that this three-month mental health episode will now harm him for the rest of his life. This is disgusting journalism, disgusting framing and disgusting behaviour from all officials mentioned. It reads like someone badly satirizing Reagan-propaganda. Disgusting.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > So, we are talking about the area you are in after a flight, yes? Since he had an employee badge, I have to assume he also entered other areas.
  - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
    Downvoted. I don't see why you would assume that.
    - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
      Hey, to all the people downvoting my comment: the article paints a pretty clear picture that this person was staying in the arrivals area which is accessible to passengers, and the reason for his arrest and prosecution was that he was embarrassing airport security. At no point does the article claim or even hint at the possibility that the person used the stolen badge to enter other areas besides the arrivals area. So why are you just "assuming" that the person entered other areas with the badge? We're talking about a person who has already been doxxed and embarrassed for their mental health issues. On top of that you want to add your baseless speculation that he did some crimes? And you don't want to give any explanation why you believe that he did some crimes? You just want to smear the man some more, because hey, let's kick him while he's down? Furthermore, I find it ironic that the people who downvoted me are giving me less courtesy than I did with my downvote, where I explained the reason for downvoting.
      - cwhiz 6y ago
        I am sure he stole the badge because he just enjoys collecting quirky things.
        baobabKoodaa 6y ago
        The most likely explanation for stealing the badge is that it provides cover for hanging out in the arrivals area 24/7. The article claims that the man stayed in an "area" (as in, a single area, rather than multiple areas). Have you ever been to an airport? They typically have security cameras everywhere. You don't think the investigation would have caught him walking into the flight control HQ to perform evil maid attack on flight control computers or whatnot?
        cwhiz 6y ago
        No, I’ve never been to an airport. Could you condescendingly tell me more about them?
        6y ago
- michaelt 6y ago
  > So, we are talking about the area you are in after a flight, yes? Remind me, BBC, why is that a "secure" area? Firstly, if passengers with connecting flights can get off one flight and onto another without going through security again, then the arrivals area must be connected to the departures area, and hence as secure as the departures area. Indeed, if I wanted to sleep in an airport I'd go to the connections/departures area - as someone sleeping while awaiting a connection wouldn't seem out of the ordinary. Whereas sleeping in arrivals would be unusual, as an arriving passenger would go to their hotel or house and sleep there instead. Secondly, if international arrivals have not yet passed through customs/immigration, the area should be secure enough that they have to do so. Although in the case of O'Hare, I believe international arrivals have a separate terminal, and this passenger was on a domestic flight.
- kingosticks 6y ago
  > > lived undetected in a secure area of Chicago's international airport for three months, US prosecutors say. > Remind me, BBC, why is that a "secure" area? Isn't this a question for the US prosecutors? Failing that, if you want to blame the press, the Chicago Tribune? They felt the need to also include a photo.
  - bluesign 6y ago
    m tm t g yyyy. Cc t Trrt
Rygian 6y ago
"Based upon the need for airports to be absolutely secure so that people feel safe to travel, I do find those alleged actions do make him a danger to the community." That is such an obvious non-sequitur, shoot-the-messenger attitude to security. The "danger to the community" stems from the officials at the airport who failed to make the airport safe and prevent this sort of situation from developing.
- raziel2p 6y ago
  I find it weird that this statement came from the judge, while the representative(s) of the airport disagreed: "While this incident remains under investigation, we have been able to determine that this gentleman did not pose a security risk to the airport or to the travelling public." But maybe this is just the airport trying to cover itself from litigation, not so much trying to make an honest statement. I guess the point here is that the judge needs to argue that the person was a (potential) danger in order to persecute or indict the airport in court?
- paganel 6y ago
  Yes, I had to read that a second time, at first I thought the judge was talking about the airport officials not doing their job, apparently being too afraid to take a flight back home because of a global pandemic makes you a "danger to the community" now? Slightly related to this, who's judging the judges? I know about the whole theoretical discussion of the judiciary being independent and only from time to time being check-and-balanced by some mythical creature (the executive/the legislative/the press), my question is who's actually checking-and-balancing this county judge who obviously is blaming the victim?
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    > apparently being too afraid to take a flight back home because of a global pandemic I'm not a doctor or a lawyer but the fact that this has ended up in court rather help and support from medical professionals makes me think the whole system has failed this person.
- tankenmate 6y ago
jpxw 6y ago
Reminds me of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal
- UncleSlacky 6y ago
  Which was itself (very loosely) based on the real-life story of the guy who lived in Charles de Gaulle airport for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri I saw him there once in 2005.
  - dkarp 6y ago
    he lived there almost 18 years - incredible
    - angrais 6y ago
      What about this 18 stay in an airport is incredible? Incredibly sad perhaps. From reading the Wikipedia he seemed to be quite stubborn as both Belgium and France offered residency, but for whatever reason he wanted to go to Britain?
      - dkarp 6y ago
        as in "too extraordinary and improbable to be believed". Incredible that he was allowed to go along like this so long
      - rcxdude 6y ago
        More than that, he refused to acknowledge his legal name when he was granted access. It's quite a strange story.
- stareatgoats 6y ago
  Great movie! "Medicine for goat" is one of my favorite movie quotes (seems I have a thing for goats hm). To the extent that I eventually booked a stay at the Ramada Inn that has a central role in the film. The hotel was fine, and the movie reference gilded the stay. </Personal anecdotes>
asiando 6y ago
The way they framed it is such BS. If he’s a danger to passengers, so are any passengers passing through such “secure area.” It’s not like he snuck in.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Depends if it was just the arrival lounge area or the behind the scenes employee-only zone of course. He's not supposed to be there. I assume this is where he was as otherwise he wouldn't have ended up in count IMO. After all he had a legal right to be there as an arriving passenger. I don't think the law specifies how long.
keyle 6y ago
I love these quirky stories like these. In an alternate universe where people would think a bit more kindly of strangers, they might have given him a low level job instead and a place to stay. And <ding> I just woke up.
- Dma54rhs 6y ago
  It doesn't seem from the article like the man was in need of a job but rather some encouragement about that the fears are overblown, maybe even some mental health check, who knows.
sweezy 6y ago
Poor guy must be living a life riddled with anxiety. Also, an airport is about the last place I'd want to be in the middle of a pandemic
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  True normally but the airports and planes I've seen lately were deserted so it is probably pretty safe. I was on a B737 this summer with scarcely 20 people on it. The closest one was 4 rows away. But yeah poor guy.
  - astrange 6y ago
    Planes are safe because they have excellent air cleaning systems. Airports, being inside without great air circulation, are totally unsafe. Just one encounter is enough to get sick - you can't stay distanced forever.
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      But they have huge open spaces with really high ceilings in many cases.. There's lots of air for it to dissipate in. And they're made to handle so many passengers, only a fraction of whom are there now. When I flew around in summer you could hear a pin drop :) I feel a lot less safe from covid in the metro or bus here even though it's not as busy as it was before, than in an airport, plane or office. Even a taxi. Still, I'm not going to live in one though :) My house is even better.
- aceBacker 6y ago
  a defense of temporary insanity seems reasonable to me. Otherwise they're going to have to establish another motive. And I bet any other motive will still have a reasonable doubt.
villgax 6y ago
Lol, does the airport ToS say that you need to exit within?
- netsharc 6y ago
  Maybe he got into trouble for stealing^W misapproprating the employee ID card. I wonder if this particular airport has opening hours and therefore have times where no one is allowed to be in. Airports like Dubai operate 24 hours, I guess it would be possible to "live" there, especially the transit lounge. They even have shower facilities... It makes me want to try it, lounge around there for a week, for yucks. Although, hanging around globetrotters during these days would not be clever...
- __s 6y ago
  It sounds like he used a stolen badge to get into areas not open to the public
  - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
    The article does not make such claims.
    - __s 6y ago
      Depends on interpretation of > an unauthorised, non-employee individual was allegedly living within a secure part of the O'Hare airport terminal Overall not many details in article, mostly signals one shouldn't be making "lol tos" remarks without knowing more
      - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
        > Depends on interpretation of >> an unauthorised, non-employee individual was allegedly living within a secure part of the O'Hare airport terminal No, it doesn't depend on intepretation. There is absolutely no way you could interpret that sentence as meaning "he used a stolen badge to get into areas not open to the public". He may or may not have accessed additional areas, but the article certainly does not claim he did. We know he accessed the "secure" arrivals area, and the article strongly hints that that's where he lived. Whether he also accessed other areas is possible, but it's not claimed in the article.
Aeolun 6y ago
If someone has been living there for 3 months without issue. I think we can conclude he’s not a danger to the public :/
dis-sys 6y ago
I think the court should offer the man a free antibody test to see whether he managed to avoid the COVID.
selim_tiotoys 6y ago
Mr. Navorski?
- mariusmg 6y ago
  :)) For anyone missing this reference, see https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362227/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362227/ Good movie, check it out.
crowf 6y ago
I'm not sure I understand the story. A guy flew from US to US (but is he a US citizen?). When it came time to leave the airport he showed a stollen ID. The airport staff didn't let him leave (but didn't arrest him?). He was then given the option to return (?) but refused since his place of origin has more Covid than the US (is there such a country?). Then people kind of let him be and he was able to eat simply base on the kindness of the few people using the airport for the passed 3 months. I feel like I am missing a lot
Threeve303 6y ago
Given the circumstances over the past year and the impact on mental health, maybe this is too harsh a punishment for this guy. I mean he didn't destroy anything or do anything wrong besides stay in what was probably an empty secure area. Help the guy get home and then provide psychiatric care. Have we all lost any sense of compassion?
sradman 6y ago
Sounds familiar [1]: > The Terminal is a 2004 American comedy-drama film... about an Eastern European man who becomes stuck in New York's John F. Kennedy Airport terminal when he is denied entry into the United States and at the same time is unable to return to his native country because of a military coup. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal

69 points by vinni2 6y ago

Airport security theatre apparently completely collapsed into a bizzaro world where wet streets cause rain and actors behave like they are on strong drugs. So, we are talking about the area you are in after a flight, yes? Remind me, BBC, why is that a "secure" area? In case people smuggle bombs/weapons on a flight, just do nothing on the flight and than harm people afterwards?! I get that you want the are to be a one-lane-road to the outside, so nobody boards a plane that way. But how is a random passenger who is supposed to be there a danger? Do passengers spoil, like idk, milk, and become dangerous after a certain date? Why and how would anyone detect a passenger overstaying in the post-flight area? Who cares? That is the world most dumb threat model? Why is this a felony? This is the most victimless "crime" I have ever seen. Did the private prison called with a need for more slave labour, or why is this guy in court and not therapy? "Based upon the need for airports to be absolutely secure so that people feel safe to travel [...]" - you mean the need to implement wide-net surveillance and a massive military under the veil of an imaginary terrorist threat? Also, why the fuck is the full name and age of this obviously unwell guy printed? So that I can imagine that he is brown based on the last name? This disgusting practice adds zero journalistic value and ensures that this three-month mental health episode will now harm him for the rest of his life. This is disgusting journalism, disgusting framing and disgusting behaviour from all officials mentioned. It reads like someone badly satirizing Reagan-propaganda. Disgusting.

Aeolun 6y ago
> So, we are talking about the area you are in after a flight, yes? Since he had an employee badge, I have to assume he also entered other areas.
- baobabKoodaa 6y ago
  Downvoted. I don't see why you would assume that.
  - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
    Hey, to all the people downvoting my comment: the article paints a pretty clear picture that this person was staying in the arrivals area which is accessible to passengers, and the reason for his arrest and prosecution was that he was embarrassing airport security. At no point does the article claim or even hint at the possibility that the person used the stolen badge to enter other areas besides the arrivals area. So why are you just "assuming" that the person entered other areas with the badge? We're talking about a person who has already been doxxed and embarrassed for their mental health issues. On top of that you want to add your baseless speculation that he did some crimes? And you don't want to give any explanation why you believe that he did some crimes? You just want to smear the man some more, because hey, let's kick him while he's down? Furthermore, I find it ironic that the people who downvoted me are giving me less courtesy than I did with my downvote, where I explained the reason for downvoting.
    - cwhiz 6y ago
      I am sure he stole the badge because he just enjoys collecting quirky things.
      - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
        The most likely explanation for stealing the badge is that it provides cover for hanging out in the arrivals area 24/7. The article claims that the man stayed in an "area" (as in, a single area, rather than multiple areas). Have you ever been to an airport? They typically have security cameras everywhere. You don't think the investigation would have caught him walking into the flight control HQ to perform evil maid attack on flight control computers or whatnot?
        cwhiz 6y ago
        No, I’ve never been to an airport. Could you condescendingly tell me more about them?
        6y ago
michaelt 6y ago
> So, we are talking about the area you are in after a flight, yes? Remind me, BBC, why is that a "secure" area? Firstly, if passengers with connecting flights can get off one flight and onto another without going through security again, then the arrivals area must be connected to the departures area, and hence as secure as the departures area. Indeed, if I wanted to sleep in an airport I'd go to the connections/departures area - as someone sleeping while awaiting a connection wouldn't seem out of the ordinary. Whereas sleeping in arrivals would be unusual, as an arriving passenger would go to their hotel or house and sleep there instead. Secondly, if international arrivals have not yet passed through customs/immigration, the area should be secure enough that they have to do so. Although in the case of O'Hare, I believe international arrivals have a separate terminal, and this passenger was on a domestic flight.
kingosticks 6y ago
> > lived undetected in a secure area of Chicago's international airport for three months, US prosecutors say. > Remind me, BBC, why is that a "secure" area? Isn't this a question for the US prosecutors? Failing that, if you want to blame the press, the Chicago Tribune? They felt the need to also include a photo.
- bluesign 6y ago
  m tm t g yyyy. Cc t Trrt

Rygian 6y ago

"Based upon the need for airports to be absolutely secure so that people feel safe to travel, I do find those alleged actions do make him a danger to the community." That is such an obvious non-sequitur, shoot-the-messenger attitude to security. The "danger to the community" stems from the officials at the airport who failed to make the airport safe and prevent this sort of situation from developing.

raziel2p 6y ago
I find it weird that this statement came from the judge, while the representative(s) of the airport disagreed: "While this incident remains under investigation, we have been able to determine that this gentleman did not pose a security risk to the airport or to the travelling public." But maybe this is just the airport trying to cover itself from litigation, not so much trying to make an honest statement. I guess the point here is that the judge needs to argue that the person was a (potential) danger in order to persecute or indict the airport in court?
paganel 6y ago
Yes, I had to read that a second time, at first I thought the judge was talking about the airport officials not doing their job, apparently being too afraid to take a flight back home because of a global pandemic makes you a "danger to the community" now? Slightly related to this, who's judging the judges? I know about the whole theoretical discussion of the judiciary being independent and only from time to time being check-and-balanced by some mythical creature (the executive/the legislative/the press), my question is who's actually checking-and-balancing this county judge who obviously is blaming the victim?
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  > apparently being too afraid to take a flight back home because of a global pandemic I'm not a doctor or a lawyer but the fact that this has ended up in court rather help and support from medical professionals makes me think the whole system has failed this person.
tankenmate 6y ago

jpxw 6y ago

Reminds me of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal

UncleSlacky 6y ago
Which was itself (very loosely) based on the real-life story of the guy who lived in Charles de Gaulle airport for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri I saw him there once in 2005.
- dkarp 6y ago
  he lived there almost 18 years - incredible
  - angrais 6y ago
    What about this 18 stay in an airport is incredible? Incredibly sad perhaps. From reading the Wikipedia he seemed to be quite stubborn as both Belgium and France offered residency, but for whatever reason he wanted to go to Britain?
    - dkarp 6y ago
      as in "too extraordinary and improbable to be believed". Incredible that he was allowed to go along like this so long
    - rcxdude 6y ago
      More than that, he refused to acknowledge his legal name when he was granted access. It's quite a strange story.
stareatgoats 6y ago
Great movie! "Medicine for goat" is one of my favorite movie quotes (seems I have a thing for goats hm). To the extent that I eventually booked a stay at the Ramada Inn that has a central role in the film. The hotel was fine, and the movie reference gilded the stay. </Personal anecdotes>

asiando 6y ago

The way they framed it is such BS. If he’s a danger to passengers, so are any passengers passing through such “secure area.” It’s not like he snuck in.

GekkePrutser 6y ago
Depends if it was just the arrival lounge area or the behind the scenes employee-only zone of course. He's not supposed to be there. I assume this is where he was as otherwise he wouldn't have ended up in count IMO. After all he had a legal right to be there as an arriving passenger. I don't think the law specifies how long.

keyle 6y ago

I love these quirky stories like these. In an alternate universe where people would think a bit more kindly of strangers, they might have given him a low level job instead and a place to stay. And <ding> I just woke up.

Dma54rhs 6y ago
It doesn't seem from the article like the man was in need of a job but rather some encouragement about that the fears are overblown, maybe even some mental health check, who knows.

sweezy 6y ago

Poor guy must be living a life riddled with anxiety. Also, an airport is about the last place I'd want to be in the middle of a pandemic

GekkePrutser 6y ago
True normally but the airports and planes I've seen lately were deserted so it is probably pretty safe. I was on a B737 this summer with scarcely 20 people on it. The closest one was 4 rows away. But yeah poor guy.
- astrange 6y ago
  Planes are safe because they have excellent air cleaning systems. Airports, being inside without great air circulation, are totally unsafe. Just one encounter is enough to get sick - you can't stay distanced forever.
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    But they have huge open spaces with really high ceilings in many cases.. There's lots of air for it to dissipate in. And they're made to handle so many passengers, only a fraction of whom are there now. When I flew around in summer you could hear a pin drop :) I feel a lot less safe from covid in the metro or bus here even though it's not as busy as it was before, than in an airport, plane or office. Even a taxi. Still, I'm not going to live in one though :) My house is even better.
aceBacker 6y ago
a defense of temporary insanity seems reasonable to me. Otherwise they're going to have to establish another motive. And I bet any other motive will still have a reasonable doubt.

villgax 6y ago

Lol, does the airport ToS say that you need to exit within?

netsharc 6y ago
Maybe he got into trouble for stealing^W misapproprating the employee ID card. I wonder if this particular airport has opening hours and therefore have times where no one is allowed to be in. Airports like Dubai operate 24 hours, I guess it would be possible to "live" there, especially the transit lounge. They even have shower facilities... It makes me want to try it, lounge around there for a week, for yucks. Although, hanging around globetrotters during these days would not be clever...
__s 6y ago
It sounds like he used a stolen badge to get into areas not open to the public
- baobabKoodaa 6y ago
  The article does not make such claims.
  - __s 6y ago
    Depends on interpretation of > an unauthorised, non-employee individual was allegedly living within a secure part of the O'Hare airport terminal Overall not many details in article, mostly signals one shouldn't be making "lol tos" remarks without knowing more
    - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
      > Depends on interpretation of >> an unauthorised, non-employee individual was allegedly living within a secure part of the O'Hare airport terminal No, it doesn't depend on intepretation. There is absolutely no way you could interpret that sentence as meaning "he used a stolen badge to get into areas not open to the public". He may or may not have accessed additional areas, but the article certainly does not claim he did. We know he accessed the "secure" arrivals area, and the article strongly hints that that's where he lived. Whether he also accessed other areas is possible, but it's not claimed in the article.

Aeolun 6y ago

If someone has been living there for 3 months without issue. I think we can conclude he’s not a danger to the public :/

dis-sys 6y ago

I think the court should offer the man a free antibody test to see whether he managed to avoid the COVID.

selim_tiotoys 6y ago

Mr. Navorski?

mariusmg 6y ago
:)) For anyone missing this reference, see https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362227/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362227/ Good movie, check it out.

crowf 6y ago

I'm not sure I understand the story. A guy flew from US to US (but is he a US citizen?). When it came time to leave the airport he showed a stollen ID. The airport staff didn't let him leave (but didn't arrest him?). He was then given the option to return (?) but refused since his place of origin has more Covid than the US (is there such a country?). Then people kind of let him be and he was able to eat simply base on the kindness of the few people using the airport for the passed 3 months. I feel like I am missing a lot

Threeve303 6y ago

Given the circumstances over the past year and the impact on mental health, maybe this is too harsh a punishment for this guy. I mean he didn't destroy anything or do anything wrong besides stay in what was probably an empty secure area. Help the guy get home and then provide psychiatric care. Have we all lost any sense of compassion?

sradman 6y ago

Sounds familiar [1]: > The Terminal is a 2004 American comedy-drama film... about an Eastern European man who becomes stuck in New York's John F. Kennedy Airport terminal when he is denied entry into the United States and at the same time is unable to return to his native country because of a military coup. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminal