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Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts
- tasubotadas 6y agoWhat did you expect the algos to show? Teddy bears? We all know what kind of people went there and even a simple Linear Regression can figure out this correlation :).
- derwiki 6y agowww.gettrumpybear.com
- a3n 6y ago"There is a 30 day money back guarantee for product price only. ... Sorry, we cannot accept returns of intentionally damaged bears."
- waheoo 6y agoWhat kind of people is that? Americans? You guys should file for divorce already, the rest of the world is over the bullshit.
- cordite 6y agoTry tinyheadedkingdom.com
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago>What did you expect the algos to show? Teddy bears? Junk I actually want to buy might be a good start.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jonathanstrange 6y agoYes, Facebook is still love-hated by so many because their algorithms are outstanding for finding potential customers. There is no doubt about that, at least for trained conversion campaigns.
- dqpb 6y agoTrue. The title of the article could be 'Facebook Has Been Showing Relevant Ads Next To "Insurrection" Posts'.
- nova22033 6y agoI remember seeing ads for sniper scopes on web pages about spring(the framework) scope. But this was in 2010..
- biffstallion 6y agoWhat hypocrisy... despite eight months of deaths, threats, and continued destruction from BLM/Antif rioters who continue to get bailed out by the "Minnesota Freedom Fund" they continue to have a platform but conservative voices do not. What a load of garbage. The breakup of BigTech cannot happen fast enough!
- rreichel03 6y agoAs an anecdote, since July they've started showing me ads for body armor almost nonstop whenever I actually open the app. Just the other day it was a body armor ad then an ad for a tactical communication earpiece.
- solarkraft 6y agoI wonder how many dollars have been spent on bombarding you specifically with shit you're (probably) not interested in, instead of just randomly doing so (with a chance of success).
- gruez 6y agoare facebook ads pay per click or pay per impression?
- mtnGoat 6y agoPer click
- pc86 6y agoBut it's this weird thing where if the click:impression ratio goes down, the clicks get more expensive (at least in was in ~18 when I last ran them).
- jlj 6y agoBoth, they have several pricing models. Also cost per like, and cost per conversion (download). Maybe more. https://www.webfx.com/social-media/how-much-does-facebook-advertising-cost.html#:~:text=The%20cost%20of%20Facebook%20ads,around%20%247.19%20per%201000%20impressions https://www.webfx.com/social-media/how-much-does-facebook-ad....
- arethuza 6y agoI don't know about Facebook (I don't use it) - but YouTube adverts do nothing but make me hate the products being advertised (and yes I give as much feedback as it will let me). Edit: Fortunately I find Nigel Farage trying to sell me financial products fairly amusing...
- theandrewbailey 6y agoAccording to modern zeitgeist, if Facebook can't be trusted to moderate their users, Facebook should be deplatformed and shut down. Edit: wow, that blew up. For the record, I don't think Facebook should be shut down, and I don't think Parler should have either. I'm rather anti-social media, so I've never used either. We should have better reasons for doing things, and stick to them. Section 230 exists for a reason.
- prophetjohn 6y agoI'm no Facebook fan or apologist, but I do think there's a distinction between failing to moderate perfectly (or even well) and refusing to even attempt to moderate.
- a3n 6y agoThis isn't failure of anything. It's targeted advertising. They meant to do that. The system is working, "as advertised."
- mminer237 6y agoThis is a failure of targeted advertising. Do you think Facebook would approve this if they had a human looking at the algorithm?
- a3n 6y agoYes. Targeted advertisement, and the resulting money, is the entire purpose of Facebook. Automation just makes the process faster. And cheaper; you know, that whole money thing. I abhor both Parler and Facebook. In the context of these threads, I don't think either has done anything illegal, which is what passes for "ethics" in our economy. Of course IANAL. I don't think Apple, Google and Amazon did anything illegal to Parler. And until these kinds of companies are legally and explicitly made into utilities, I don't think we can expect them to do anything except whatever they want.
- 6y ago
- lawrencevillain 6y agoFacebook knows their audience well and is catering to it. It's social media for middle-aged conservatives, so it makes sense to advertise to them. I don't know of a lot of young people who use the platform still, they've all gone off to TikTok or Instagram(still FB I know).
- randlet 6y ago> It's social media for middle-aged conservatives Are you sure about that? When I sign on to Facebook, it appears to be social media for middle-aged liberal minded people. Facebook is a bit of a mirror in that sense.
- solarkraft 6y agoI thought Facebook was just for memes! It has become pretty good at only showing you things you like to counter the reputation of making you hate the people you know IRL, I suspect.
- randlet 6y agoExactly. Almost the only time I see things that I disagree strongly with is when I'm shown a comment by one of my contacts who is in a stupid fruitless argument where neither party has a chance in hell of changing the other persons mind.
- wavefunction 6y agoI think the ads I always used to see before terminating my use of Facebook for Christian Mingle say otherwise.
- pjc50 6y agoMiddle-aged conservatives buying insurrection cosplay gear is, I would say, a problem in itself that America is really unwilling to confront. The boundary between pretend and reality gets very, very thin and the ammunition purchased is live. (It could even fall under existing restrictions on ""gangs"", if those weren't targeted at nonwhite people only!)
- ianhawes 6y agoFWIW I have also seen the same body armor ads but have not seen insurrection posts. In addition, I've seen ads for gun cleaning supplies, rifle scopes, tactical equipment, dad-bod t-shirts, fish hook removal equipment, and day trading algos bots.
- progre 6y ago> New Year’s specials for specialized body armor plates, rifle enhancements, and shooting targets
- gadders 6y agoCan we put insurrection in scare quotes please?
- babygoat 6y agoNo.
- gadders 6y agoAs long as we call this an insurrection as well then: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/416411-youth-protestors-fill-nancy-pelosis-office-demanding-climate-change https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/416411-youth-p...
- babygoat 6y agoWho did they kill?
- TheCoelacanth 6y agoI must have missed the part where they beat a Capitol Police officer to death on their way into the building.
- gadders 6y agoHe got hit with a fire extinguisher which is awful. It's still not an insurrection though. There was no attempt to over throw the US Government. Calling this an insurrection is like calling everyone that ways "All Lives Matter" a nazi and cheapens debate.
- btbuildem 6y agoSuggestion algos working as per design. What's the surprise here?
- mhh__ 6y agoOne thing worth considering is that a lot of the people at the capitol were extremely tacti-cool, so regulation or not, this is probably not unexpected.
- cwhiz 6y agoFacebook should be shut down unless they can commit to a plan to resolve any similar type of issue. Let’s give them 24 hours.
- Havoc 6y agoThe part about guns and bullet proof vest being marketed as survival gear is rather comical in itself
- whoknew1122 6y agoWorking as intended. Until Facebook gets too much heat for it. Then they'll apologize while counting all the money they made off engagement and targeted ads relating to insurrection.
- DIVx0 6y agoI'll pile on an anecdote. I still have a facebook account but its not something I use very often except the past week given the situation in the USA. My facebook account is very old, when i was more of an active user I did all the usual posts/photos that a lot of liberal urban types contribute. Anyway, after posting some anti-insurrection posts I start noticing all sort of "tacti-cool" gear ads or targeted T-shirt s with some very macho-man hyper masculinity phrases on them. This is very much _not_ me. Now I keep facebook on a tight leash (FB container, privacy settings turned to max) so my guess is that someone out there is spending a lot of money on a huge ad target or somehow facebook thinks anyone who is posting about a US insurrection would like to participate with some neat military cosplay kit.
- dunnevens 6y agoI think your last assumption is correct. I've had something similar happen to me. I participate in ex-evangelical groups because of my childhood. And other groups highly critical of American conservative Christianity. Facebook floods my ads with appeals from conservative churches, conservative religious organizations, and for some reason thinks I'm deeply interested in Calvinism. It's oddly reassuring. This shows FB doesn't know anything about what I want. At least, their ad algorithms don't. Feels like a very primitive response on their part. Had something similar happen with journals of all things. Around 6 months ago, a friend of mine shared her new physical journal that she was proud of. Said she wanted to get back to writing her novel. I hit like or love to show support. Ever since then, there's been a massive deluge of ads for journals and various writer creativity tools. Even though I've never once sought out anything related to journals or creative writing.
- csharptwdec19 6y agoEver since I started getting involved in Tarot/Reiki/Pagan groups, Facebook has started showing me advertisements for products very clearly designed for females despite me being male in both biology and identity.
- mywittyname 6y ago> so my guess is that someone out there is spending a lot of money on a huge ad target I think this is really it. The profit margins on this stuff is insane. And the volumes of money typical people spend on this stuff is also insane. (speculation here) The insurrection is probably opening the door for new customers. I would not be surprised to hear a people in zero-gun households are now seeking to acquire their first one. That allure of "protection" is strong. And urbanites represent a huge untapped market for guns and tactical gear. So it makes sense to push ads on these people. Going from zero to one is the biggest leap. I bet there's usually some event for people that primes them to pull the trigger. You buy that first one for protection, but the next ones are because they are fun, fashionable, or an investment. I know a fair number of people with gun+related collections which exceed the value of their cars. The fact that gun collecting has become fairly profitable in the past few years seems to have really spurred a frenzy of buying. If you can buy something for $800, and sell it for $1300 in three years, then why not buy as much as you can afford? This then fuels shortages, raising prices. So yeah, it might be very much _not_ you, right now, but I bet they are hoping enough ads will change your mind. I mean, you want to be the cool, macho person that you family and friends turn to for protection in these trying times, right? /s
- bfieidhbrjr 6y agoThe spice must flow....
- onetimemanytime 6y ago>>Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts Engineers high-fiving each other. They got the ad relevancy right, at least.
- brundolf 6y agoThe unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure somebody could (and probably will, now that it's made the news) add a rule that makes an exception in this case. But this is going to keep happening, and keep happening, and keep happening, as long as we continue allowing systems to automate our content-feeds, optimized for getting us to spend money.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoExactly. If you joke about nods and stuffed dogs full of tannerite all day of course the algo is gonna try and show you adds for level "wish.com" armor plates and bulk ammunition because it's job is to show stuff to people who will buy that stuff and you've fit the profile of people who buy cheap body armor and bulk ammo to a tee. People preparing for revolt buy revolt supplies, water is wet, more news at 11.
- loopz 6y agoMore of privatize profits, socialize costs. This is the end game to Capitalism, and it can't fix itself.
- ocdtrekkie 6y agoThat's why the solution is liability: Companies will keep leaving unchecked algorithms responsible for this until they can go to jail for doing so. Adtech is a cancer and it's time to cut it out using every legislative and regulatory option we have. Put Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai behind bars and the problem will correct after that.
- brundolf 6y agoLiability is tricky because a) it seems like it would be hard to prove, and b) it could get too broad, hampering internet expression in general. I tend to think a specific law against automated content-curation would be better - that's the true source of problems - though it's obviously still really hard to define (arguably anything a computer does is "automated"). The simplest solution might be privacy protections, which (among other things) would indirectly kneecap targeted content curation, due to a lack of data.
- BostonJiao 6y agoQuintessential Facebook.
- fasteddie31003 6y agoWorked on me. I just bought some AR500 plate armor. Better safe than sorry in today's world. I don't see any downside to buying body armor.
- chmod600 6y agoThe main downside of pretty much any purchase like that is that it distracts your attention/time/money from other safety gear. For instance, an extra fire extinguisher on the other side of the house is probably a better purchase for most people in terms of safety. But someone might spend their "safety" budget (time, money, attention) on the armor and then be left without the basics. Also, unless you have a gun already or you are physically strong, armor doesn't seem likely to be effective.
- mywittyname 6y ago> Also, unless you have a gun already or you are physically strong, armor doesn't seem likely to be effective. Exactly, body armor only helps prevent bullet penetration. Your body is still absorbing a shitload of energy. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. You have to be a large, strong person to maintain physical capabilities after being hit. Also body armor is extremely fickle; it must be worn and fitted correctly. It is akin to a well-tailored Italian suit. If you gain a few pounds, it won't fit right. Bad fit = bad protection. Also, they don't protect the lower abdomen and groin areas -- which is a serious risk when a shooter is aiming for center mass, bullets fall as they travel.
- titzer 6y agoPaint a target on yourself? Maybe wear this under a big fluffy sweater. (In the background I am just smh over how dystopian America is now.)
- thereddaikon 6y agoAR500 and any steel ballistic armor is a liability. It may stop the bullets, or maybe it wont. You cant be sure its not NIJ certified. But even if it did AR500 has the bad side effect of making the bullet fragment, the bits them flying perpendicular to the plate into your crotch and neck. They will apply truck bed liner and claim this "spall liner" prevents it but it doesn't really. The same companies that make body armor for the military and police, Hesco and RMA also sell to civilians. The NIJ also helpfully provides a list on their website of all currently certified body armor that passes their test. If its NIJ certified then it is deemed acceptable for law enforcement units in the US to use it. AR500 the company has only one product on the NIJ's CPL and its their most expensive plate and its ceramic like all real plates, not steel. The body armor industry has a history of a lot of shady dealings and AR500 is only the latest chapter. They pay youtube gun influencers to make videos that make their products look good.
- gorgoiler 6y agoI’m surprised to see this here, on HN. For all its faults, Facebook isn’t to blame for the existence of edgy paraphernalia merchants of the kind that make Buzzfeed feel squeamish. Journalism like this is bullying. Ironically, Buzzfeed’s intention is to rabble rouse negative sentiment against those in charge — in this case, Zuckerberg. Profiting off of cultural and political discord indeed. Et tu, Buzzfeed?
- shoemakersteve 6y agoPoor Zuck, getting bullied like this :( I hope he pulls through
- skrowl 6y agoCalling body armor "Military Gear" as in "only the military should be able to buy body armor" is pretty sad, even by Buzzfeed extreme-left standards. Body armor can't kill anyone.
- Daniel_sk 6y agoYes, me eyes were rolling when I was reading that. I understand the issue when inappropriate Ads are shown for the specific context. This can happen not just with "military" / tacticool gear but anything else, I have seen this happen many times. But pointing our that this is military gear and it's some sort of intentional case (because it's military gear) is a ridiculous reporter hyperbole.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoYup, ethically questionable yet likely effective ad placement happens in damn near every product category. The algos are too dumb to understand ethics but not too dumb that diet pills get more clicks when you put them beside videos about anorexia and "influences" who have photoshopped their bikini pics.
- libertine 6y agoThe most baffling thing to me is the fact that body armor, and military grade weapons, are sold in USA... Like, we're discussing ad delivery, not the fact that a country allows companies to sell all kinds of weapons, and equipment to the general public... so I think that accurate ad targeting is the least of the problems.
- notananthem 6y agoI have been getting nothing but milsurp/"tactical tim" ads for 2020. I don't chat about plate carriers, bugout bags, etc ever, I don't engage in anything about it.. Facebook has just become like a bad gun store ad platform.
- wombatpm 6y agoI think the problem is more in microtargeting than in anything else. Once upon a time, advertisers would struggle to create an ad campaign that had broad appeal, that was disseminated broadly. Think Budweiser Frogs and other superbowl commercials. Now a campaign can be targeted to divorced white men over 40 whose ex's have remarried and consist of allusions to the false fact that jerks like your ex's new husband drink Miller, therefore you should drink Bud. What is bad is with A_B testing, machine learning and low cost targeting, the process of creating those campaign gets easier. When applied to politics it gets even worse. Because now you can target your racists message to just the racists, and your wholesome family message to soccer moms, safe in the knowledge that these contradictory messages will never been seen by the wrong audience thanks to Facebook et. al. So of course ads for tactical gear are going to show up next to insurrection posts by the kookitariat and ads for homesafety will show up next to cat picture posts by soccer moms - even if it is the same company selling the same products.
- titzer 6y agoJust another sign that the core of every tech company's executive leadership is the drive to build a machine with one instruction: make us as much money as possible. They'd happily tuck this machine away in the basement and eliminate the human supervision as a "cost" if they could. At heart, they really don't care what the machine does. And the engineers? Let's hope they automate themselves away eventually! They're always demanding payraises and causing a stink. Instruction side condition: keep engineers busy with scaling up, try not to get us into trouble.
- dillondoyle 6y agoRepeal Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act and additionally add weapons of any type and in this case add military style gear - e.g. the storm trooper stuff. Add more advertising regulations like alcohol/tobacco. FB already prohibits weapons, alcohol, tobacco ads etc.. Gun manufacturers would have to KYC like banks, probably have to add big insurance costs and ultimately charge (significantly) higher prices which should hopefully reduce the amount of weapons in the US which is already ridiculously high. The tobacco playbook I'm talking European increasing costs.
- Vecr 6y agoJudges can usually see intent behind laws like that, similar things have been tried with abortion, attempting to make it harder/more expensive or similar, with not great success.
- dillondoyle 6y agoI'm not an expert here - I work in politics which overlaps a bit - it seems though that there is a very organized effort to install judges who go against this though right? the Heritage Foundation has successfully placed hundreds on the bench who rule using plain text ultra-socially conservative legal theory. Even at the justice department some of Barr's speeches especially Notre Dame one are insanely religious and scary from my side of the fence. And abortion seems to be the main test here too. aren't there a few cases that could go before the supreme court soon where conservatives are hoping that Barrett's quote about re-examining past rulings and not holding precedent as the 'law' will reverse our progress?
- scotty79 6y agoThat's what I'm complaining about... Facebook is allowed to show adverts and related links next to conpiracy theory content that just dends the readers deeper into their rabit holes. They should be mandated to advertise educational and mental health support services next to such content. What is happening now is like advertising best shotguns, gas ovens and sleep pills next to suicide apologetics, but on societal level.
- rkt88edmo 6y agoI don't even think it is limited to disinformation posts. I have a FB friend who is a hardcore progressive democrat, very politically forthright, and he is seeing the same type of ads and he is not a firearms owner or survivalist.
- m1gu3l 6y agoI follow pretty liberal content and was seeing these too.
- reportgunner 6y agoWow buzzfeed on hackernews