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McDonald’s Theory on How Best to Rescue Conversations
- sokoloff 6y agoWith many of my friend groups, suggesting McDonalds results in us eating at McDonalds.
- asdf333 6y agoi think there needs to be the threat that it might potentially end up being the option to spark the conversation. i sincerely would like to eat mcdonald’s but since it’s not considered a serious option, they just laugh and the stalemate continues
- beerandt 6y agoIt's never actually about the food until the decision has already been made. On so many levels.
- keithwhor 6y agoThat's because your friends are awesome.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y agoPeople who turn their noses up at McDonald's were spoiled as kids
- stretchcat 6y agoFunny, as a kid I felt the opposite. Getting to eat McDonalds, or fastfood at all, was a rare treat because it was expensive. On road trips, my parents packed cold soggy sandwiches for me and my brothers. These days though, I associate McDonalds with 'no other option' and don't care for the food at all (probably because I never developed much of a taste for it in the first place?)
- tacitusarc 6y agoWe might be related.
- mod 6y agoEspecially right now. It's 2 for $5, including Big Macs.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y agoA little secret you can do is maximize the a-la carte menu. I will get a cheeseburger, no ketchup no mustard, add shredded lettuce, add mac sauce. tada! you got a single patty big mac for $1.30ish. but if you're feeling cheap and this deal isn't happening anymore, you can do the same with mcdoubles.
- scsilver 6y agoNo, I just don't want to feel like crap after I eat.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y agoI'd wager thats more closely related to your diet.
- scanny 6y agoThis was beautifully written
- arghwhat 6y agoMedium requiring an account to read. Ugh.
- lotsofpulp 6y agoI don’t see that in iOS Safari with Wipr.
- AnimalMuppet 6y agoNot to me. (I'm running Firefox on Windows.)
- dredmorbius 6y agohttps://pastebin.com/3zKwSc9W https://pastebin.com/3zKwSc9W
- arghwhat 6y agoThanks mate.
- djrogers 6y agoIf I suggest McDonalds to my family, the wife and 3 kids will all say yes. Heck, if I suggest Popeye's, 3 of the 4 will still say McDonalds...
- jolux 6y agoThat’s criminal, I like McDonald’s but Popeye’s is brilliant. Scarce in New England though.
- Alupis 6y agoIt's not quite the same, but Bojangle's are all over the east coast: https://www.bojangles.com/ https://www.bojangles.com/
- chrisrogers 6y agoGive Krispy Krunchy a go. They're usually part of a gas station, and are legitimately great. I go for it over Popeyes. https://www.krispykrunchy.com/locations https://www.krispykrunchy.com/locations
- RandallBrown 6y agoHoly crap. There are WAY more locations than I ever realized. I've only seen 2 of them in my life.
- medium_burrito 6y agoI've never even heard of them. How is there a national chain with what appears to be a billion and half locations that I've never heard of? Do I just hang out too much in posh neighborhoods full of Karens????!!!
- SaintGhurka 6y agoThey're easy to miss. The one near me is part of a Shell station and the only clue that it's there is a 2 x 3 foot drive-thru sign. I will second the recommendation. They're quite good. https://www.google.com/maps/@30.1917316,-98.0886381,3a,75y,270.5h,85.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syLJFLxd3a7d7BI7wnoVTgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@30.1917316,-98.0886381,3a,75y,2...
- coderintherye 6y agoIf you like this line of thinking, I would suggest reading "Games People Play" [1] (also can find the original research paper if you look around for it). Basic premise is how we fall into transactional games in social settings (talking about weather, sports, etc) and acknowledging that can help break out of that into more interesting conversation. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Games-People-Play-Psychology-Relationships/dp/0241257476/ https://www.amazon.com/Games-People-Play-Psychology-Relation...
- filoleg 6y agoJust bought the book based off your recommendation, thanks a lot for that. I was curious to read something along the lines of thinking the OP was musing on, but couldn't phrase it in a way that would help me find it. And neither did i suspect that it was an actual thing people wrote about, as opposed to just me having some random thoughts and wishing someone wrote about those. Reading the description of that book makes me believe that you absolutely nailed it with that recommendation.
- senkora 6y agoI second “Games People Play”. It’s a very enjoyable read and it has a lot of real insight.
- wsinks 6y agoI discovered Games People Play in 2017, and found it to be a fascinating exploration of how people communicate. I still refer to it. I don't have much info on this, but I brought it up to my mom who mentioned that the book had a period of popularity before my time, but had apparently been debunked as too rudimentary. I'm convinced that the framework is still relevant despite that, although I typically trust my mom's intuition on people's behind the scenes incentives -- she's proven to have theories about people that take months to play out but end up playing out.
- wombatmobile 6y ago> she's proven to have theories about people that take months to play out but end up playing out. All mothers have that - but they're different theories...
- joshuamcginnis 6y agoI’ve been shocked by the old plastic slides at McDonalds so many times as a kid that I salivate whenever I hear the word.
- m463 6y agoI wonder if this is more effective if you slide before eating or after eating?
- davidgh 6y agoI recall watching a group of kids who figured out that they could increase their speed on the slide by about 4x by riding down it while sitting on a plastic food tray. I don’t know who had more fun - the kids or me watching them.
- automatoney 6y agoThis post is decently interesting and fun although I can't really understand where it's going? I see the connections between the ideas the author is making but overall the post feels rather meandering. Aside: I hate to be a grammarian but the paragraph with four em dashes across two sentences really did my head in. Generally I expect them to set off parentheticals and I had no clue if I was supposed to place the parentheses across the sentences.
- Mulpze15 6y ago>I can't really understand where it's going? Same here. That's why I find it interesting. Some half baked ideas that feel accurate and useful. No big theory about life. Perfect blog post.
- rustyminnow 6y agoIt meanders and I love it. The author mentions that he tends to take initiative even when ideas are only half baked, and you can see it in his post. It feels rough and loose, like the ideas haven't been polished to perfection yet. There is no grand claim here. I appreciate that all of the answers aren't served up on a silver platter and we're left to do with these theories what we will. It's raw and refreshing and I find it very engaging.
- EGreg 6y agoI wish the post was on a wiki. Imagine what masterpiece the HN crowd would come up with when it was done! Very meta... someone should do it :)
- silexia 6y agoPost is generated by AI.
- toper-centage 6y agoIt's so odd. I was left with the feeling that I just stumbled on a few rough nuggets of pretty interesting advice. I really enjoyed reading this article and shall refer back to it, but it could almost be extended to a small book if the author would polish and deepen it.
- pacamara619 6y agoGreat read but I've learned nothing. The only think I took away from this is that I want to go to the maccas but it's closed so thanks for making me hungry I guess.
- cbanek 6y agoFor me, back when I used to have coworkers that I would see and eat with, we would have the default be tacobell, which was the closest lunchtime option, but terrible. It forced us to travel the town to other options, although I've also eaten too much taco bell!
- bruceb 6y ago"found the odds of Seinfeld were better than sports or weather as a hurdle breaker. The combination of a personal like for a cult classic..." This dinged the credibility. Not sure how mainstream show Seinfeld can be thought of as a cult classic. Unless this is thrown in there to spark conversation here on how he is wrong.
- mixmastamyk 6y agoWhile mainstream at the time, it's been ~25 years. Stingy IP holders share some of the blame, although I hear the show is coming to Netflix soon.
- jaden 6y agoIt's been on Hulu for a few years, just FYI.
- mixmastamyk 6y agoAll old shows should be everywhere.
- hulahoof 6y agoAll seasons are on Amazon prime! I love to put on Seinfeld as a background show
- kevinventullo 6y agoSee I would define cult classic as something that was not popular at the time of release, but then slowly gained popularity several years on to the point of becoming mainstream in the present. The movie Office Space is a canonical example for me.
- djkivi 6y agoEven 25 years later I see Seinfeld is on 11 times tomorrow with my cable package.
- snakeboy 6y ago
- curiousllama 6y agoSuggesting McDonalds is only half the insight - and contextual, anyway. Instead, give an arbitrary binary choice. "Would you like tacos or sushi?" will often elicit (1) a choice or (2) a third option ("I kind of want a burger"), which is now the default. A binary choice gets you to a default.
- Aerroon 6y agoIf you can't decide between two options then take out a coin. Heads you get a burger, tails you get tacos. Flip the coin. If you feel even a tinge of regret or disappointment over the result, then go with the other option. Being faced with a specific concrete option can make it easier to rank it compared to alternatives. I learned of this idea from a TED talk many years ago.
- shannongreen 6y agoWhenever you're called on to make up your mind, and you're hampered by not having any, the best way to solve the dilemma, you'll find, is simply by spinning a penny. No - not so that chance shall decide the affair while you're passively standing there moping; but the moment the penny is up in the air, you suddenly know what you're hoping. -- Piet Hein, "A Psychological Tip"
- kristiandupont 6y agoHah, interesting. I knew it from Frasier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=173&v=pPYiCw9HHXo&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=173&v=pPYiCw9HHXo&feature=yo...
- harry8 6y agoIt's a great technique. I've been doing it since the 90s. Also to break others out of indecision. But side note: I've found TED really disappointing. For a good talk save yourself the time and read the 5 sentences above. Most aren't that good. Anyone take issue with that?
- vharuck 6y agoI like the memory of watching Seinfeld to learn America's mostly unspoken social norms. Seems like comedies mocking these norms are great for learning about modern cultures. I'd be interested in a list of similar works for other cultures.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y agoI once met a new colleague in China. We went to dinner and halfway through I complimented him on his accent-free colloquial American English and inquired if perhaps he’d gone to school in the US. He said no. I asked how he’d learned to speak such polished American. He said friends. I stupidly said... you have American friends in Beijing?? He said, ‘No, Friends... The TV show.’
- Swizec 6y agoAs an immigrant and child/teenagehood connoisseur of american TV, can confirm: Everyone is always very impressed with my fluent colloquial English. They don't believe I didn't grow up here. What's funny is all the people online who were absolutely adamant that real life is nothing like TV. Yeah it is. Exactly like it. Comedies wouldn't be funny if they weren't real. Down to the stupid round door knobs that you can't use with full hands. Why the heck do americans do that?
- kube-system 6y agoIronically enough, US accessibility law bans those round door knobs in many public buildings. Maybe we just can't stand the idea of our homes having the same door hardware as the McDonald's bathroom.
- Talanes 6y agoI've owned a few dogs and cats that would have wrecked absolute chaos with door handles they could manipulate, but I doubt that's enough to drive the round knob industry here.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y agoDo cockroaches fly? All the cockroaches I’ve lived with were trampled under foot.
- rriepe 6y agoPalmetto bugs in Florida can fly. Or glide at least.
- steve_taylor 6y agoThey fly in hot weather.
- ggambetta 6y agoYes. Yes, they do. It's terrifying.
- godot 6y agoI've heard of the McDonald's theory many years ago and I do somewhat agree that it works. But I'm not so sure that Seinfield for conversation-starting works in a similar way. I was an immigrant in the US from Asia. Even though that was almost 25 years ago and I've lived in the US for far longer than in Asia now, I'm still not familiar with Seinfield; and that's the case for many other immigrants friends I know as well. But take that idea further, I'm not even talking about Seinfield in particular. Let's say we use any subject-X for this purpose of conversation-starting. I'm not a natural conversationist, and most conversations with acquaintances or strangers often end in awkward silences after a sentence or two. I've had great conversations sure, but usually it's because they happen to touch on very specific topics that I really am interested in. In other words, I don't really buy this whole idea that all you need to do is to start with a topic common enough, and the conversation flows. It just hasn't been my experience.
- shittycoder2000 6y agoI can’t find it now, but somewhere I read about the FORD method, and it always worked: Family, Occupation, Recreation, Dreams. I keep trying until something hits. At professional gatherings, I usually do a sequence of ODRF: what do you do? What would you do if you won the 100mil lottery? What do you do do fun? What does your family hope fo you? Reading over the above, I now realize how much I agree with the author’s thesis: good icebreakers use both commonality and creative prompts.
- owlninja 6y agoNot sure how Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is received on HN, but a point that always stuck with me is: People like to talk about themselves.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- blendergeek 6y ago> Not a word was spoken, we learned something new here: different cultures, different emphasis. Even if you return the favor, asking for ride to airport is reserved for very strong relationships! I'm an American who never seems to be able to understand cultural norms. Is this a thing? Is driving people to the airport that big a deal? If I need a ride to the airport, I always just ask around. I am always ready to drive people to the airport (or anywhere) as I went without a car for a few years and greatly appreciated every ride I got.
- musicale 6y ago> Is driving people to the airport that big a deal? Not if you are an Uber driver.
- Talanes 6y agoThat facet of the show always struck me as particularly New York airport culture, but I've spent my whole life on the opposite coast so don't trust me on that. It does feel like something that would be a very different ask city to city though. I'd never ask for a ride in SF, because BART is fine and it's a bit of a drive back for them. But a nice downtown airport like San Diego and I'll ask anyone I'm close enough with to tell I'm in town.
- bransonf 6y agoConsidering that you will pay an additional fee with any cab/ride hailing service, there must be, therefore the additional economic incentive. Airport traffic is unique. There’s no room to loiter and additional complexity in navigating. Also, there’s the expectation of luggage. That said, airports are very different around the country and so are cultural norms. But generally, you should toss some cash or a token of appreciation to the person driving you to or from the airport.
- SeanLuke 6y agoI have an only barely related story involving McDonalds and social behavior, but if he can meander, so can I, right? Back around 1990 I was working in a (then industrial) part of Hong Kong called Tsuen Wan. I would regularly go to McDonalds for lunch around 11:30 in order to watch an amazing crowd behavior. Above the McDonalds was a large elementary school. At noon sharp they would break for lunch and huge numbers of little kids would come down and crowd into the restaurant to order lunch. Almost 100% of these kids ordered exactly the same thing: a Filet 'o Fish. I remember this McDonalds having a very long row of those diagonal slots where hamburgers were slid down and stacked up: except for one slot, they were all pre-filled with Filet 'o Fish sandwiches in preparation for the onslaught.
- wombatmobile 6y agoHere it's the opposite. The cowburgers are pronto. The fish burgers take forever. I asked why this is so, puzzled why the healthier alternative is saddled with the time penalty. Freshness, she said. The fish burgers have the shortest shelf life so they make each one to order. That's the price I pay for not eating next to a large elementary school in Hong Kong at lunch time.
- supernova87a 6y agoI don't know if this is still true, but I was grateful for inadvertently benefiting from Catholic Lent period in the US, because McD would have Filet-o-Fish for $1 on Fridays. Less unhealthy opportunity to indulge in what usually costs $4 (?).
- somedude895 6y agoThe story about how the Filet-o-Fish came to be and why it's still being sold even though in most places it's their worst selling item is quite interesting. https://www.rd.com/article/why-mcdonalds-sells-filet-o-fish/ https://www.rd.com/article/why-mcdonalds-sells-filet-o-fish/
- tiziano88 6y agoReminds me of the "just remove the duck" article: https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2013/06/05/duck/ https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2013/06/05/duck/
- mqrs 6y ago> If so, then why was the waitress not disturbed? It is not the cockroach, but the inability of those people to handle the disturbance caused by the cockroach, that disturbed the group. I realized that, it is not the shouting of my father or my boss or my wife that disturbs me, it’s my inability to manage my reaction to the words around me. This sounds like a reference to stoic philosophy (of which I am not a fan), but I mean, don’t phobias exist, and don’t degrees of intensity exist so that it’s actually impossible to resist a trigger? I personally used to be really scared of roaches, too, and I got over it not because I learned to control the fear itself, but because I thought about roaches differently (something along the lines of considering them weak). There is no controlling that fear because fear in this context is intense—I still get jerky sometimes when a cockroach shows up by surprise, or when there’s more than one of them, or worst of all, when they actually fly. I can usually avoid making a scene when there’s room to run somewhere else or if there’s an insect spray nearby, but stuck in a room with these triggers? I might go insane. The conclusion that the women screamed because they’re not in control is not only lazy and prejudiced, it’s also an arrogant epistemological claim on something that the author doesn’t actually know, which is whether the fear or disgust of roaches is simply more intense for other people.
- praveenperera 6y agoSounds like you’re agreeing with Epictetus “It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters” In your case the cockroach didn’t change, you found a different way to frame the cockroach. In turn you react to it differently.
- steve_adams_86 6y agoI agree with Epictetus purely because I can’t change what happened to me, but I can make decisions about how to respond to what happened. I originally had a hard time with this idea because people have used this “your response is your responsibility” excuse when being unkind to me, but the thing is, this mode of thinking doesn’t mean no one can hurt you and no one should be accountable for being unkind. It just means at the end of the day, you won’t benefit from dwelling on it and practicing seeking solutions instead is purely beneficial. Once I separated the idea from the strict context of responses to what people did to me but anything the world could throw at me, be it bad weather or getting a great sleep or being given a gift or tripping myself down stairs, I realized it’s quite easy to apply and think about. It made a lot more sense without the loaded emotional, interpersonal context overlaid. I figured I’d externalize this in case it helps anyone else, not trying to over-explain simple concepts to people :)
- bitwize 6y agoYou know what helped me break the ice in Japan? It wasn't fat penguins or even fat tanuki. It was Pokémon. With a bit of alcohol to loosen the tongue, I found that I could start interesting conversations with Japanese people by using Pokémon as an opening topic. It was something everybody knew on my side of the pond and on theirs. As an added bonus they would help me when I fumbled my Japanese, the learning of which constituted ~50% of why I went to bars to strike up conversations with randos in the first place. (I am not a great conversationalist.) So yeah, Pokémon was my Seinfeld, I guess.
- peter_d_sherman 6y ago>"At a restaurant, a cockroach suddenly flew from somewhere and sat on a lady. She started screaming out of fear. The lady finally managed to push the cockroach away. It landed on another lady in the group. Now, it was the turn of the other lady in the group to continue the drama. The waitress rushed forward to their rescue. In the relay of throwing, the cockroach next fell upon the waitress. The waitress stood firm, composed herself and observed the behavior of the cockroach on her dress. When she was confident enough, she grabbed it with her fingers and threw it out of the restaurant. Sipping my coffee and watching the amusement, the antenna of my mind picked up a few thoughts and started wondering, was the cockroach responsible for their histrionic behavior? If so, then why was the waitress not disturbed? It is not the cockroach, but the inability of those people to handle the disturbance caused by the cockroach, that disturbed the group. I realized that, it is not the shouting of my father or my boss or my wife that disturbs me, it’s my inability to manage my reaction to the words around me. Everyone reacts, few respond. Conversations can sometimes go nowhere, sometimes they go to places we are uncomfortable with. The waitress leads the way on how to respond."
- bsimpson 6y agoSome friends all got motorcycles around the same time. One suggested we should start calling ourselves Cheesy Rider. He thought he was joking - using the McDonald's Theory to spur us to come up with a better name. We've been Cheesy Rider ever since. I laser-cut matching cheese-themed license plate frames, so we're stuck with it forever.
- baud147258 6y ago> In all that humdrum, one thing was clear to me: as humans we are natural editors than writers. it feels like there's a word missing somewhere in that sentence.
- anonytrary 6y ago> You are with a group of friends, colleagues and no one has any ideas for lunch, suggest McDonald’s. Creative sparks fly. Nothing rallies the group better than this initial suggestion. Main takeaway -- if people don't know the answer, say the wrong answer, and the group will eventually produce a better answer. Sounds like how the web works (best way to get the right answer is to post the wrong one). Anyway, this is a cool idea. I will try suggesting McDonald's sometime.
- bipinsingh061 6y agosdksbkhs
- bipinsingh061 6y agook this works
- prepend 6y ago> Fat penguins are a great way to break the ice I don’t think this is true. Even if a penguin is the biggest penguin [0] and enormously fat at twice their normal weight, that’s only 90kg and not going to break much ice. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_penguin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_penguin