19 ms·

Teamspeak 5 to be based on the Matrix protocol

541 points by circularfoyers 6y ago

MayeulC 6y ago
I saw that forum post earlier yesterday. What makes it credible? It's a post by a very recent account, that didn't write that much to begin with. With that said, screenshots look similar to the Element Matrix client: https://community.teamspeak.com/t/wishlist/1436/283 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/wishlist/1436/283 Even if TS5 was to be based on a Matrix client, that doesn't imply it supports the official Client-Server nor Server-Server APIs. I've argued that Matrix was a good fit for integrating into Mumble, I am still of that opinion.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  Regarding Matrix+Mumble, here was my plea: https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble/issues/1813#issuecomment-525048473 https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble/issues/1813#issuecomme... Currently, I am envisioning posting `mumble:` links in matrix channels, maybe pinning the message, together with a bit more info in custom events. If a Matrix client doesn't integrate mumble client functionality, you could still click on links. If it does, there could be some further integration with authentication.
jhgg 6y ago
I don't think this is true, sorry. TS5 is definitely not built on Matrix. EDIT: Am wrong, see below! Maybe we can update the original post to one of the links below.
- danielsamuels 6y ago
  Hmm, their developers seem to imply otherwise: > TS.ChrisR - TeamSpeak Staff - 30d > We use the Matrix protocol only for the messenger part. https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 Other mentions of it here: https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-status-update/11419/36 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-stat... https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-status-update/11419/148 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-stat... Matrix themselves talked about it: https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/09/this-week-in-matrix-2020-10-09 https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/09/this-week-in-matrix-2020-...
  - jhgg 6y ago
    Oh real interesting! Didn't realize that was the case - and the source linked was just a new account O:
    - anticensor 6y ago
      Discord API is currently thick server and thick client, as far as I understand. Have you had a chance to review the current state of the Matrix protocol, which is thin client and would be useful as an inspiration for the next API revision of Discord.
nathias 6y ago
Nice! Increasing our reliance on open protocols instead of platforms is the best way towards a freer better internet.
agilob 6y ago
All sources of this guy https://community.teamspeak.com/u/erkinalp/activity https://community.teamspeak.com/u/erkinalp/activity point to a comment from a developer where word "matrix" is in DNS SRV record name https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-status-update/11419/147 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-stat... All other sources in Google are reddit and Facebook posts.
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MayeulC 6y ago
Here is a more official-looking statement: https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 > We use the Matrix protocol only for the messenger part. The rest does not require a different TeamSpeak server.
- kitkat_new 6y ago
  interesting, I am speechless This is rather unusual for a commercial service
  - kqr 6y ago
    What part of it? Lots of commercial services are built on open protocols. HTTP is probably the most prominent example, but even in the IM world it is (was?) not that odd to see a commercial service use IRC under the hood.
    - jcelerier 6y ago
      Facebook and Google talk used to use xmpp
      - WhyNotHugo 6y ago
        Google Talk's usage of XMPP was more of an Embrace, Extend, Extinguish than _actual_ adoption.
        kevincox 6y ago
        It may have been. But I wouldn't be surprised if the people who started it actually wanted a properly federated standardized XMPP. Of course then leadership got to it :'(
        jrimbault 6y ago
        There were a few months more than 10 years ago when you could use one XMPP client for all your various social/chat accounts. I want to say around 2008 ?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Avamander 6y ago
I hope that Mumble does the same, to be honest. It's long overdue.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Uhm, why exactly? It does what it is designed to do, with low latency and good quality. Speaking from "Desktop" perspective here.
  - gsich 6y ago
    Text chat that doesn't suck. Right now Mumble condenses all text messages in a single box.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      Guess why it's called Mumble? TBH, on contemporary hardware it is so minimal, that I don't see a problem in using another program for texting in parallel that is more fitting for your needs, if those of Mumble don't suffice.
      - gsich 6y ago
        Guess what people do in voice chats. They come and go, post links or sometimes write when not being able to talk right now. Privately and in the current channel (seperate things). Having server messages combined with user messages and channel messages is not sane. This has nothing to do with "better suits your needs". Teamspeak (and others) solve this with tabs.
        LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        I didn't use TS because at the times I compared it with Mumble, it looked better(but only initially), but also felt more heavy. Both client and server. Also not open-source, so no go for exotic platforms. What I can say for Mumble is that you can customise it. I couldn't care less about redundant server messages spamming me with the rejoins from someone with a bad connection, for instance. Furthermore you can have different users colored differently. Emulation layers for running TS would have eliminated Mumbles rather minimal resource usage. So...shrug ?
bzb6 6y ago
Last time I tried to set up a ts server I couldn’t because they don’t provide arm binaries. Everybody is on discord now. Better close shop already, frankly.
- cabraca 6y ago
  yeah close that stable company, that offers a good selfhosted solution for a fair price and jump ship to a VC funded startup that is backed by Tencent. \s
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Yes too many open-source projects sponsor Discord too by using it :( Like Home Assistant. It's a shame when there's so many good open systems available.
- gsich 6y ago
  Yeah clise shop because you tried to run it on hobby hardware.
  - bzb6 6y ago
    Arm is not hobby hardware. I was running it on a scaleway instance (they have phased out arm instances ever since).
    - gsich 6y ago
      Guess why.
- f1refly 6y ago
  Last time I checked I still had well over a dozen users on my ts3 server during the daytime. It'd be really sad to lose the community.
seanieb 6y ago
Will this be end-to-end-encrypted?
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  As a developer of an application wich had end-to-end encryption for a decade now, I'm so sick of people constantly demanding e2ee without fully understanding what it is and what are the downsides of it. The big irony is that strong promise of really good encryption works for them better than really good encryption and all the drawbacks in usability it brings.
  - ziddoap 6y ago
    Out of curiosity, how do you know the poster you are replying to is 'demanding e2ee without fully understanding'? Also wondering what you mean by 'really good' encryption?
    - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
      Because such posters are always the same and make similar requests all the time. Say, someone makes a group chat product for 10000 people. They always pop up: 'but does it have e2ee? no? meh'. Not understanding that real e2ee makes no sense if you just blindly trust everyone without fingerprint verification, which is clearly impossible if you plan to use a product with thousands of people whom you've never met before. By 'really good' encryption I mean encryption where you do mutual fingerprint verification - a tiresome process that few users really do because they don't want all this hassle. Most people would be more happy with a big green button with a nice lock which says, 'You are really safe now' after pressing.
      - ziddoap 6y ago
        On HN, of all places, I personally prefer to give posters the benefit of the doubt that when asking for E2EE, they have some notion of what it is and entails. Your past few comments here are really rather condescending, assuming that no one (except yourself, of course) really understands what they mean when they ask for E2EE. >real e2ee >By 'really good' encryption These are descriptive terms I've not encountered in an academic setting when discussing all types of encryption. Is there a formal definition of 'real' vs. 'fake' E2EE?
poisonborz 6y ago
Note that this is only for chat functionality, not voice transmission.
0x004C 6y ago
This is great news for Matrix also. With a widely known project like Teamspeak adopting it as a protocol, others might follow. Speaking of Teamspeak 5 - I hope the new client doesn't hog multiple gigabytes of RAM. Being lightweight is one of the reasons I prefer Teamspeak over Discord.
- jdellinger 6y ago
  The current beta uses 7 processes with a total RAM of 139MB, so not as bad as some electron apps. Old TS3 client uses 60MB.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  And then we end up with unfederated networks which matrix is supposed to be all about.
  - dsr_ 6y ago
    The point of an open source federated communications tool is that you can make your own federation if you want to, with your own policy.
    - johnchristopher 6y ago
      Yeah, but it clashes with the mail analogy that is used to promote federation. But what makes me wonder is the choice of words "based on matrix" instead of "using matrix". So even if you wanted you couldn't federate.
      - worble 6y ago
        Assuming they do wish to maintain interoperability, you can use matrix while extending the base "events" that are sent to clients. So it may be that essentially Teamspeaks client/server will support the main specification "m.room" events, such as joining, leaving, adding/editing titles, etc, while also exposing their own "com.teamspeak.event" addons (which might be invites to voice channels or recordings or something specific like that), which so long as the client says "oh hey, I know those, speak them to me" will work fine, and any other client could still get the basic chat functionality. I'm not sure how exactly this works with server <-> server federation, I've never actually looked at that spec. https://matrix.org/docs/spec/client_server/r0.6.1#types-of-room-events https://matrix.org/docs/spec/client_server/r0.6.1#types-of-r...
Nican 6y ago
That is a name I have not seen in a long time. I remember when I use to game with Ventrilo/Teamspeak/Mumble about a decade ago. For anyone who still uses Teamspeak today, what do you use it for?
- jkhsjdhjs 6y ago
  I still use it for voice communication while gaming.
- asjkaehauisa 6y ago
  A lot of Tibia's gamers use it in Poland
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ch0I9daAiO 6y ago
  I host my own TS3 server. It uses significantly less resources than the Discord client, has better audio (at least my friends sound better) and data is not going to Discord for whatever they're using data for. In case there's an issues with my Teamspeak server, I can solve it, instead of waiting for Discord.
- throwaway_ocr 6y ago
  Same thing I've always used it for, talking to people I play games with. Teamspeak never stopped working so there was never a reason to switch to anything else.
  - lrem 6y ago
    > Teamspeak never stopped working Ah, so your circle of friends does not include people with messed up audio. Teamspeak happily passes on whatever it got as input. Discord does quite a bit of filtering, able to salvage legibility of some of my friends.
    - Mo3 6y ago
sean_pedersen 6y ago
Would like to see more messaging services jump in on Matrix protocol. Signal would be huge.
- _-___________-_ 6y ago
  I would hate to see Signal replace the elegant, carefully designed protocol they use with the bloated, carelessly designed, "IM-over-HTTP" mess that is Matrix.
  - anticensor 6y ago
    Binary transport is already on the roadmap.
  - delfinom 6y ago
    Heh, Matrix is starting to remind me of the giant shitshow that is Lync/Skype for Business and now known as Microsoft Teams with a new skin. Lync is a scary scary thing.
    - anticensor 6y ago
      They work quite differently under the hood: Microsoft Teams is thick client/thin server, Matrix is thin client/thick server.
- hans1729 6y ago
  Huge for matrix, yes. For signal to jump on the matrix train, matrix first needs to get their act together with respect to encryption. Try getting non-techsavy folk to set up multiple devices, the process is nowhere near viable right now
  - ryukafalz 6y ago
    >Try getting non-techsavy folk to set up multiple devices, the process is nowhere near viable right now The process of setting up e2e on a new device these days is basically "scan this QR code and push a button" though.
T3RMINATED 6y ago
Discord has killed the Teamspeak.
physicsguy 6y ago
Didn't even realise Teamspeak was still running! Throw back to old MMO days
ds 6y ago
Not to be negative, but teamspeak and ventrilo represent some of the biggest failures of 'getting stuck in your lane' ever. They got fat on hosted server revenue and never iterated. Both of them had years (decade?) on discord and never thought to make their product free, web based or have a better chat. Ventrilo still has no official ios/android app (lol). Both remind me of craigslist, actually- Except that craigslist is still going strong (for now). Both still exist, granted- And many still use them. Its just that discord really shouldnt exist, it should have been one of these players. The head start they had should have been insurmountable. Also, apologies for not really commenting on the subject at hand (TS supporting matrix) - Its just I so rarely hear about TS/Vent that I thought it worth me shouting into the ether my disappointment I am not talking to all my friends on vent/ts in 2021.
- Macha 6y ago
  It remains to be seen if Discord has a long term viable business model or whether it will get dumped like Skype, AIM, etc. when they need to monetise it and users get put off by the attempts. That said, the move will likely be to the next highly funded product in that case, not back to TS/Mumble.
  - ds 6y ago
    Id be willing to bet discord makes more gross profit from nitro sales in one week than TS/Vent make in a year, combined.
    - newfeatureok 6y ago
      I highly doubt it - what are you basing this on? I personally don't know a single person who actually pays for discord. Most people I know who use Teamspeak pay for it. That being said, Discord is way more popular than Teamspeak, it does remain to be seen if they can heavily monetize.
      - kungito 6y ago
        Go to any public discord server with hundreds of users and you'll see them. I got my friends to pitch in to boost the server so that we can stream to each other in 60 fps but turns out our internet connections cannot handle it
jjice 6y ago
Sorry Teamspeak, but you lost me already. Back about 7 years ago when I spent more time online with friends in school, we tried to use Teamspeak multiple times, but the audio quality was always awful. We didn't like Skype either, but the audio was still better, so we dealt with the bloat. Discord is king in my mind, without question. Being electron based makes it a bit heavy, but I can spare 200MB on my machine for some damn good chat and call.
- momothereal 6y ago
  Could've just been a network issue, or simply because it was 7 years ago. I've been using Teamspeak daily with my friends for 6 years, hosted on a 5$ digitalocean droplet and the audio is far superior compared to anything else. Discord is pretty sweet too, with screensharing, videos, better chat etc. But once more than 2 people talk at once in a channel, even with Nitro/whatever, it starts cutting people up. We can really feel the difference when going back to TS after a Discord call.
- jagger27 6y ago
  TeamSpeak supports Opus and I don't remember quality being an issue. I actually distinctly remember Discord's audio being worse than the best TeamSpeak settings when Discord launched and my friends switched over.
- Mo3 6y ago
  You probably had the audio codec configured improperly. Back then, TS used Speex in different bitrates. Today it is OPUS Voice (or OPUS Music), which has absolutely great audio quality. Combine this with very low latency if the server is in your proximity and you've got something that sounds and performs better than anything else - Slack, Discord, etc. "Damn good" chat might be true, but call? Only if you appreciate mediocre voice quality, a suboptimal RTC protocol and a good big chunk of latency. Discord feels sluggish, bloated and heavy compared to TS, and it's not just because it's Electron-based.
  - deadbunny 6y ago
    Not at my PC to check ATM but I'm pretty sure Discord uses Opus codecs as well.
luos 6y ago
Teamspeak is still the best when it comes to chatting when gaming, it is usable with voice activation, push to talk and it has so good echo cancellation that it works when both of us are on speakers. Though the current version uses almost a full core on my machine, it's still worth it in my opinion and you can find many free servers you can connect to.
- faeyanpiraat 6y ago
  We switched to Mumble way back when I played Cod2 competitively. It was better in every way. Ventrilo was "meh" (probably between the two). Edit: Fixed product names.
  - luos 6y ago
    I tried Mumble but it was lacking in something, maybe the push to talk did not work properly or the echo cancellation was not working? I can't really remember now.
- superkuh 6y ago
  Teamspeak used to be the best. I used it for a decade. It's only within the last couple years as they've tried to become Discord that it's started going downhill. Teamspeak 3 was solid enough but soon they implemented the artificial lifetime, you had to re-authenticate your server every year (and sometimes more often). Then they got rid of the old forums and wiped everything clean. It hasn't been the same. I stopped using TS recently. I do use matrix, but only because of the pandemic. And matrix itself only does 1-to-1 voice. For multiple it has a system to shunt you over to jitsi and autoconfigure the room. So I don't see how TS5 is going to use matrix.
nxoxn 6y ago
The new teamspeak application is clearly targeting Discord and I'll be happy to see some competition. I like the differences in the UI that are visible in their demo screenshots and the ability to host my own server would be nice. The biggest difficulty teamspeak is going to face is that users are now firmly entrenched in discord, just as twitch users are firmly entrenched in that product. Why would users switch? I am certainly going to try out the new TS and see how it fares because I just like trying out all of my options before settling on one. Quite a few others that I know would largely prefer to just stay put though.
orliesaurus 6y ago
I'm glad to see TeamSpeak is still out there. I totally dropped it as soon as Discord became popular, not because I didn't like it - but literally everyone moved over, I didn't want to be left behind. Totally can see how some folks out here value their data a lot more and want to keep things private! That's where TeamSpeak will always thrive! Here's a little bit of a story-time anecdote: Back when I was in school, we used TeamSpeak to talk after hours, it was like the equivalent of people double (or 1.5x) my age spending hours and hours on the phone and their parents yelling "GET OFF THE PHONE". It was a win win situation because with ADSL (3mbps lol) I could be connected all day and not hog the phone line, additionally the in-built chat to whisper things was good enough that we could exchange links for funny images/flash games etc. The voice quality was never bad, it took a little server configuration to get it just right, and the ability to record your voice and the conversation made for some hilarious clips compilation throughout the years, sometimes we still share some of those clips to remember what it was like to have a squeaky teenage voice. I spent thousands of hours on TeamSpeak and also tried Ventrilo/Mumble - but I was defo a team TeamSpeak kid...Also I really liked the fact that TeamSpeak had a public servers list that we could just join when someone forgot to pay the bill for our own server. Yep we rotated...so it wouldn't be the burden of 1 person paying for everyone! Speaking of paying the bill, it was always just a couple of dollars PayPal'd over to someone who had a larger servers, basically sub-renting a whole room and subrooms...made us feel like adults paying our own bills :) Thanks for allowing me to drive down memory lane!
danr4 6y ago
I have a personal TeamSpeak server for my friend group since forever. I don't know if it's nostalgia, or I'm just old (31) but I can't imagine replacing it ever. Initially for gaming sessions, it became a place to hangout when you're on the computer, whatever you are doing. It's light weight, usable on my phone, self-hosted, no emoji-fiesta, can send the one-off chat message that I NEVER need history of. It just works and it's OURS. Once in a while when it's down all of my friends panic. I always thought there was a missing consumer app for my use case. There was/is Houseparty but I thought that video is too much. Clubhouse seems like it's doing something right but still not on point re. dropping in to a "familiar" place and hanging. Discord on the other hand just feels so alienating to me.
yakattak 6y ago
I haven’t seen groups in the games I play use Teamspeak or Ventrilo in probably 5-10 years. There was a push to Mumble a few years back and it seems like as soon as Discord hit the market it just took over. Do certain games still lean towards these? Perhaps older MMOs? I’m curious to hear which games are using it.
blackrock 6y ago
What is the Matrix?
hda111 6y ago
I would prefer TeamSpeak over Discord if they would bring back non profit licenses. I mean that I could host one myself but without making profit with enough slots.

I saw that forum post earlier yesterday. What makes it credible? It's a post by a very recent account, that didn't write that much to begin with. With that said, screenshots look similar to the Element Matrix client: https://community.teamspeak.com/t/wishlist/1436/283 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/wishlist/1436/283 Even if TS5 was to be based on a Matrix client, that doesn't imply it supports the official Client-Server nor Server-Server APIs. I've argued that Matrix was a good fit for integrating into Mumble, I am still of that opinion.

MayeulC 6y ago
Regarding Matrix+Mumble, here was my plea: https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble/issues/1813#issuecomment-525048473 https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble/issues/1813#issuecomme... Currently, I am envisioning posting `mumble:` links in matrix channels, maybe pinning the message, together with a bit more info in custom events. If a Matrix client doesn't integrate mumble client functionality, you could still click on links. If it does, there could be some further integration with authentication.

jhgg 6y ago

I don't think this is true, sorry. TS5 is definitely not built on Matrix. EDIT: Am wrong, see below! Maybe we can update the original post to one of the links below.

danielsamuels 6y ago
Hmm, their developers seem to imply otherwise: > TS.ChrisR - TeamSpeak Staff - 30d > We use the Matrix protocol only for the messenger part. https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 Other mentions of it here: https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-status-update/11419/36 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-stat... https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-status-update/11419/148 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-stat... Matrix themselves talked about it: https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/09/this-week-in-matrix-2020-10-09 https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/09/this-week-in-matrix-2020-...
- jhgg 6y ago
  Oh real interesting! Didn't realize that was the case - and the source linked was just a new account O:
  - anticensor 6y ago
    Discord API is currently thick server and thick client, as far as I understand. Have you had a chance to review the current state of the Matrix protocol, which is thin client and would be useful as an inspiration for the next API revision of Discord.

nathias 6y ago

Nice! Increasing our reliance on open protocols instead of platforms is the best way towards a freer better internet.

agilob 6y ago

All sources of this guy https://community.teamspeak.com/u/erkinalp/activity https://community.teamspeak.com/u/erkinalp/activity point to a comment from a developer where word "matrix" is in DNS SRV record name https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-status-update/11419/147 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/teamspeak-development-stat... All other sources in Google are reddit and Facebook posts.

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MayeulC 6y ago

Here is a more official-looking statement: https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 https://community.teamspeak.com/t/beta-signup/13749/50 > We use the Matrix protocol only for the messenger part. The rest does not require a different TeamSpeak server.

kitkat_new 6y ago
interesting, I am speechless This is rather unusual for a commercial service
- kqr 6y ago
  What part of it? Lots of commercial services are built on open protocols. HTTP is probably the most prominent example, but even in the IM world it is (was?) not that odd to see a commercial service use IRC under the hood.
  - jcelerier 6y ago
    Facebook and Google talk used to use xmpp
    - WhyNotHugo 6y ago
      Google Talk's usage of XMPP was more of an Embrace, Extend, Extinguish than _actual_ adoption.
      - kevincox 6y ago
        It may have been. But I wouldn't be surprised if the people who started it actually wanted a properly federated standardized XMPP. Of course then leadership got to it :'(
      - jrimbault 6y ago
        There were a few months more than 10 years ago when you could use one XMPP client for all your various social/chat accounts. I want to say around 2008 ?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Avamander 6y ago

I hope that Mumble does the same, to be honest. It's long overdue.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Uhm, why exactly? It does what it is designed to do, with low latency and good quality. Speaking from "Desktop" perspective here.
- gsich 6y ago
  Text chat that doesn't suck. Right now Mumble condenses all text messages in a single box.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Guess why it's called Mumble? TBH, on contemporary hardware it is so minimal, that I don't see a problem in using another program for texting in parallel that is more fitting for your needs, if those of Mumble don't suffice.
    - gsich 6y ago
      Guess what people do in voice chats. They come and go, post links or sometimes write when not being able to talk right now. Privately and in the current channel (seperate things). Having server messages combined with user messages and channel messages is not sane. This has nothing to do with "better suits your needs". Teamspeak (and others) solve this with tabs.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        I didn't use TS because at the times I compared it with Mumble, it looked better(but only initially), but also felt more heavy. Both client and server. Also not open-source, so no go for exotic platforms. What I can say for Mumble is that you can customise it. I couldn't care less about redundant server messages spamming me with the rejoins from someone with a bad connection, for instance. Furthermore you can have different users colored differently. Emulation layers for running TS would have eliminated Mumbles rather minimal resource usage. So...shrug ?

bzb6 6y ago

Last time I tried to set up a ts server I couldn’t because they don’t provide arm binaries. Everybody is on discord now. Better close shop already, frankly.

cabraca 6y ago
yeah close that stable company, that offers a good selfhosted solution for a fair price and jump ship to a VC funded startup that is backed by Tencent. \s
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Yes too many open-source projects sponsor Discord too by using it :( Like Home Assistant. It's a shame when there's so many good open systems available.
gsich 6y ago
Yeah clise shop because you tried to run it on hobby hardware.
- bzb6 6y ago
  Arm is not hobby hardware. I was running it on a scaleway instance (they have phased out arm instances ever since).
  - gsich 6y ago
    Guess why.
f1refly 6y ago
Last time I checked I still had well over a dozen users on my ts3 server during the daytime. It'd be really sad to lose the community.

seanieb 6y ago

Will this be end-to-end-encrypted?

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
As a developer of an application wich had end-to-end encryption for a decade now, I'm so sick of people constantly demanding e2ee without fully understanding what it is and what are the downsides of it. The big irony is that strong promise of really good encryption works for them better than really good encryption and all the drawbacks in usability it brings.
- ziddoap 6y ago
  Out of curiosity, how do you know the poster you are replying to is 'demanding e2ee without fully understanding'? Also wondering what you mean by 'really good' encryption?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    Because such posters are always the same and make similar requests all the time. Say, someone makes a group chat product for 10000 people. They always pop up: 'but does it have e2ee? no? meh'. Not understanding that real e2ee makes no sense if you just blindly trust everyone without fingerprint verification, which is clearly impossible if you plan to use a product with thousands of people whom you've never met before. By 'really good' encryption I mean encryption where you do mutual fingerprint verification - a tiresome process that few users really do because they don't want all this hassle. Most people would be more happy with a big green button with a nice lock which says, 'You are really safe now' after pressing.
    - ziddoap 6y ago
      On HN, of all places, I personally prefer to give posters the benefit of the doubt that when asking for E2EE, they have some notion of what it is and entails. Your past few comments here are really rather condescending, assuming that no one (except yourself, of course) really understands what they mean when they ask for E2EE. >real e2ee >By 'really good' encryption These are descriptive terms I've not encountered in an academic setting when discussing all types of encryption. Is there a formal definition of 'real' vs. 'fake' E2EE?

poisonborz 6y ago

Note that this is only for chat functionality, not voice transmission.

0x004C 6y ago

This is great news for Matrix also. With a widely known project like Teamspeak adopting it as a protocol, others might follow. Speaking of Teamspeak 5 - I hope the new client doesn't hog multiple gigabytes of RAM. Being lightweight is one of the reasons I prefer Teamspeak over Discord.

jdellinger 6y ago
The current beta uses 7 processes with a total RAM of 139MB, so not as bad as some electron apps. Old TS3 client uses 60MB.
johnchristopher 6y ago
And then we end up with unfederated networks which matrix is supposed to be all about.
- dsr_ 6y ago
  The point of an open source federated communications tool is that you can make your own federation if you want to, with your own policy.
  - johnchristopher 6y ago
    Yeah, but it clashes with the mail analogy that is used to promote federation. But what makes me wonder is the choice of words "based on matrix" instead of "using matrix". So even if you wanted you couldn't federate.
    - worble 6y ago
      Assuming they do wish to maintain interoperability, you can use matrix while extending the base "events" that are sent to clients. So it may be that essentially Teamspeaks client/server will support the main specification "m.room" events, such as joining, leaving, adding/editing titles, etc, while also exposing their own "com.teamspeak.event" addons (which might be invites to voice channels or recordings or something specific like that), which so long as the client says "oh hey, I know those, speak them to me" will work fine, and any other client could still get the basic chat functionality. I'm not sure how exactly this works with server <-> server federation, I've never actually looked at that spec. https://matrix.org/docs/spec/client_server/r0.6.1#types-of-room-events https://matrix.org/docs/spec/client_server/r0.6.1#types-of-r...

Nican 6y ago

That is a name I have not seen in a long time. I remember when I use to game with Ventrilo/Teamspeak/Mumble about a decade ago. For anyone who still uses Teamspeak today, what do you use it for?

jkhsjdhjs 6y ago
I still use it for voice communication while gaming.
asjkaehauisa 6y ago
A lot of Tibia's gamers use it in Poland
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ch0I9daAiO 6y ago
I host my own TS3 server. It uses significantly less resources than the Discord client, has better audio (at least my friends sound better) and data is not going to Discord for whatever they're using data for. In case there's an issues with my Teamspeak server, I can solve it, instead of waiting for Discord.
throwaway_ocr 6y ago
Same thing I've always used it for, talking to people I play games with. Teamspeak never stopped working so there was never a reason to switch to anything else.
- lrem 6y ago
  > Teamspeak never stopped working Ah, so your circle of friends does not include people with messed up audio. Teamspeak happily passes on whatever it got as input. Discord does quite a bit of filtering, able to salvage legibility of some of my friends.
  - Mo3 6y ago

sean_pedersen 6y ago

Would like to see more messaging services jump in on Matrix protocol. Signal would be huge.

_-___________-_ 6y ago
I would hate to see Signal replace the elegant, carefully designed protocol they use with the bloated, carelessly designed, "IM-over-HTTP" mess that is Matrix.
- anticensor 6y ago
  Binary transport is already on the roadmap.
- delfinom 6y ago
  Heh, Matrix is starting to remind me of the giant shitshow that is Lync/Skype for Business and now known as Microsoft Teams with a new skin. Lync is a scary scary thing.
  - anticensor 6y ago
    They work quite differently under the hood: Microsoft Teams is thick client/thin server, Matrix is thin client/thick server.
hans1729 6y ago
Huge for matrix, yes. For signal to jump on the matrix train, matrix first needs to get their act together with respect to encryption. Try getting non-techsavy folk to set up multiple devices, the process is nowhere near viable right now
- ryukafalz 6y ago
  >Try getting non-techsavy folk to set up multiple devices, the process is nowhere near viable right now The process of setting up e2e on a new device these days is basically "scan this QR code and push a button" though.

T3RMINATED 6y ago

Discord has killed the Teamspeak.

physicsguy 6y ago

Didn't even realise Teamspeak was still running! Throw back to old MMO days

ds 6y ago

Not to be negative, but teamspeak and ventrilo represent some of the biggest failures of 'getting stuck in your lane' ever. They got fat on hosted server revenue and never iterated. Both of them had years (decade?) on discord and never thought to make their product free, web based or have a better chat. Ventrilo still has no official ios/android app (lol). Both remind me of craigslist, actually- Except that craigslist is still going strong (for now). Both still exist, granted- And many still use them. Its just that discord really shouldnt exist, it should have been one of these players. The head start they had should have been insurmountable. Also, apologies for not really commenting on the subject at hand (TS supporting matrix) - Its just I so rarely hear about TS/Vent that I thought it worth me shouting into the ether my disappointment I am not talking to all my friends on vent/ts in 2021.

Macha 6y ago
It remains to be seen if Discord has a long term viable business model or whether it will get dumped like Skype, AIM, etc. when they need to monetise it and users get put off by the attempts. That said, the move will likely be to the next highly funded product in that case, not back to TS/Mumble.
- ds 6y ago
  Id be willing to bet discord makes more gross profit from nitro sales in one week than TS/Vent make in a year, combined.
  - newfeatureok 6y ago
    I highly doubt it - what are you basing this on? I personally don't know a single person who actually pays for discord. Most people I know who use Teamspeak pay for it. That being said, Discord is way more popular than Teamspeak, it does remain to be seen if they can heavily monetize.
    - kungito 6y ago
      Go to any public discord server with hundreds of users and you'll see them. I got my friends to pitch in to boost the server so that we can stream to each other in 60 fps but turns out our internet connections cannot handle it

jjice 6y ago

Sorry Teamspeak, but you lost me already. Back about 7 years ago when I spent more time online with friends in school, we tried to use Teamspeak multiple times, but the audio quality was always awful. We didn't like Skype either, but the audio was still better, so we dealt with the bloat. Discord is king in my mind, without question. Being electron based makes it a bit heavy, but I can spare 200MB on my machine for some damn good chat and call.

momothereal 6y ago
Could've just been a network issue, or simply because it was 7 years ago. I've been using Teamspeak daily with my friends for 6 years, hosted on a 5$ digitalocean droplet and the audio is far superior compared to anything else. Discord is pretty sweet too, with screensharing, videos, better chat etc. But once more than 2 people talk at once in a channel, even with Nitro/whatever, it starts cutting people up. We can really feel the difference when going back to TS after a Discord call.
jagger27 6y ago
TeamSpeak supports Opus and I don't remember quality being an issue. I actually distinctly remember Discord's audio being worse than the best TeamSpeak settings when Discord launched and my friends switched over.
Mo3 6y ago
You probably had the audio codec configured improperly. Back then, TS used Speex in different bitrates. Today it is OPUS Voice (or OPUS Music), which has absolutely great audio quality. Combine this with very low latency if the server is in your proximity and you've got something that sounds and performs better than anything else - Slack, Discord, etc. "Damn good" chat might be true, but call? Only if you appreciate mediocre voice quality, a suboptimal RTC protocol and a good big chunk of latency. Discord feels sluggish, bloated and heavy compared to TS, and it's not just because it's Electron-based.
- deadbunny 6y ago
  Not at my PC to check ATM but I'm pretty sure Discord uses Opus codecs as well.

luos 6y ago

Teamspeak is still the best when it comes to chatting when gaming, it is usable with voice activation, push to talk and it has so good echo cancellation that it works when both of us are on speakers. Though the current version uses almost a full core on my machine, it's still worth it in my opinion and you can find many free servers you can connect to.

faeyanpiraat 6y ago
We switched to Mumble way back when I played Cod2 competitively. It was better in every way. Ventrilo was "meh" (probably between the two). Edit: Fixed product names.
- luos 6y ago
  I tried Mumble but it was lacking in something, maybe the push to talk did not work properly or the echo cancellation was not working? I can't really remember now.
superkuh 6y ago
Teamspeak used to be the best. I used it for a decade. It's only within the last couple years as they've tried to become Discord that it's started going downhill. Teamspeak 3 was solid enough but soon they implemented the artificial lifetime, you had to re-authenticate your server every year (and sometimes more often). Then they got rid of the old forums and wiped everything clean. It hasn't been the same. I stopped using TS recently. I do use matrix, but only because of the pandemic. And matrix itself only does 1-to-1 voice. For multiple it has a system to shunt you over to jitsi and autoconfigure the room. So I don't see how TS5 is going to use matrix.

nxoxn 6y ago

The new teamspeak application is clearly targeting Discord and I'll be happy to see some competition. I like the differences in the UI that are visible in their demo screenshots and the ability to host my own server would be nice. The biggest difficulty teamspeak is going to face is that users are now firmly entrenched in discord, just as twitch users are firmly entrenched in that product. Why would users switch? I am certainly going to try out the new TS and see how it fares because I just like trying out all of my options before settling on one. Quite a few others that I know would largely prefer to just stay put though.

orliesaurus 6y ago

I'm glad to see TeamSpeak is still out there. I totally dropped it as soon as Discord became popular, not because I didn't like it - but literally everyone moved over, I didn't want to be left behind. Totally can see how some folks out here value their data a lot more and want to keep things private! That's where TeamSpeak will always thrive! Here's a little bit of a story-time anecdote: Back when I was in school, we used TeamSpeak to talk after hours, it was like the equivalent of people double (or 1.5x) my age spending hours and hours on the phone and their parents yelling "GET OFF THE PHONE". It was a win win situation because with ADSL (3mbps lol) I could be connected all day and not hog the phone line, additionally the in-built chat to whisper things was good enough that we could exchange links for funny images/flash games etc. The voice quality was never bad, it took a little server configuration to get it just right, and the ability to record your voice and the conversation made for some hilarious clips compilation throughout the years, sometimes we still share some of those clips to remember what it was like to have a squeaky teenage voice. I spent thousands of hours on TeamSpeak and also tried Ventrilo/Mumble - but I was defo a team TeamSpeak kid...Also I really liked the fact that TeamSpeak had a public servers list that we could just join when someone forgot to pay the bill for our own server. Yep we rotated...so it wouldn't be the burden of 1 person paying for everyone! Speaking of paying the bill, it was always just a couple of dollars PayPal'd over to someone who had a larger servers, basically sub-renting a whole room and subrooms...made us feel like adults paying our own bills :) Thanks for allowing me to drive down memory lane!

danr4 6y ago

I have a personal TeamSpeak server for my friend group since forever. I don't know if it's nostalgia, or I'm just old (31) but I can't imagine replacing it ever. Initially for gaming sessions, it became a place to hangout when you're on the computer, whatever you are doing. It's light weight, usable on my phone, self-hosted, no emoji-fiesta, can send the one-off chat message that I NEVER need history of. It just works and it's OURS. Once in a while when it's down all of my friends panic. I always thought there was a missing consumer app for my use case. There was/is Houseparty but I thought that video is too much. Clubhouse seems like it's doing something right but still not on point re. dropping in to a "familiar" place and hanging. Discord on the other hand just feels so alienating to me.

yakattak 6y ago

I haven’t seen groups in the games I play use Teamspeak or Ventrilo in probably 5-10 years. There was a push to Mumble a few years back and it seems like as soon as Discord hit the market it just took over. Do certain games still lean towards these? Perhaps older MMOs? I’m curious to hear which games are using it.

blackrock 6y ago

What is the Matrix?

hda111 6y ago

I would prefer TeamSpeak over Discord if they would bring back non profit licenses. I mean that I could host one myself but without making profit with enough slots.